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This year's defense vs. Ryan's defense


bostonmajet
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I don't want to start another Rex thread, but I thought it is interesting to contrast this year's defense vs. the defenses Rex used to field.

I realize that we are only 4 game into the season, and that the secondary has been drastically upgraded, but at one point Ryan had younger Revis and Cro.  Either way, some interesting points.

The Jets defenses were good, often in the top 5 under Ryan, but a closer look at the numbers shows a different story.  The Jets are currently ranked 3rd, but look where the yards are.  They are 2 in passing and and 12th against the run.  In the past, we would dominate against the run, but be in the 20s against the pass.  Take a look at Buffalos current numbers, overall in the 20s, 29th against the pass, but 3rd against the run.  Sure, buffalo played the Pats and we haven't yet.  Also the season is young and we have maybe the best corners out there.  But, the trends seem to be the same, Rex was strong against the run, but would give up the big play; had trouble getting off the field.  He would blitz in the early downs and play soft on 3rd and in the 4th quarter.

Bowles, however, gets more aggressive as the game and downs go on.  In the 4th quarter he doesn't soften up.  Again, not dissing Ryan as I liked him when he was here, but this defense can be a truly dominant defense.  It still has a way to go, but I love the new philosophy.  Play the run, but in this league you have to stop the pass.  

I was never a fan of the defensive rankings being about yards.  A more telling ranking, IMO is points/game and takeaways.  Currently the Jets are ranked #1 in both.  More importantly, the Jets are averaging 13.8 points to game; #2 is at 17.2; that 3.4 difference may not seem big, but that difference also separates the #2 team from the #11 team.  In short that number is amazing.  We also have the same number of takeaways in 4 games that we had all year.  I think this goes to show the difference in philosophy.  When we have a close game, or a lead, we get even more aggressive on defense.  As the other offense is pressured to score, we get tough and step up.

The season is still young.  I hope this trend continues, but it is nice to have a lead in the 4th quarter and be confident that you can hold the lead.

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the end of the half where the dolphins had 30 seconds and tried to move the ball showed me what bowles is like.  he blitzed skrine every play if I'm not mistaken.

we know the dolphins would have moved the ball to midfield on rex and gotten  a hail mary or maybe even a long FG

Edited by Larz
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We can count on Rex's defenses being in the top 5 in YPG, if he has his personnel. However, he is rarely there in points allowed and that is where wins and losses are made. Rex is obsessed with defensive stats when he should be obsessed with winning.

"Dang, that was a tough loss. My defense held them to 39 yards rushing and 192 yards passing. Their two big plays and three INTs just killed us."

Edited by bergenjets
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Rex is a great defensive mind, we know this. I just think one of his major flaws was refusing to tailor his system to his players. His system always came first no matter what. I remember the first game of the 2010 season how he hung Kyle Wilson in his first game out to dry putting him in solo coverage for pretty much the entire game. If you all remember that game Wilson got taken to school, flags called on him, etc but Rex didn't give him any relief if I recall. 

And last season with Pryor. Calvin was playing out of his natural position all year, he looked like an invisible man week after week. But now I notice Pryor every week making some great tackles and plays. It was hard to believe he only got his first interception this year. 

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Nothing to do with the thread, but they blitzed Skrine every play because the Dolphins never picked him up.  My favorite thing about this coaching staff is the willingness to keep doing what is working instead of getting cute. 

schittenheimer disease

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We can count on Rex's defenses being in the top 5 in YPG, if he has his personnel. However, he is rarely there in points allowed and that is where wins and losses are made. Rex is obsessed with defensive stats when he should be obsessed with winning.

"Dang, that was a tough loss. My defense held them to 39 yards rushing and 192 yards passing. Their two big plays and three INTs just killed us."

lol ya rex only needed 9 first round picks on defense to be top 5 in yards allowed

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Bowles is not afraid to fail. Because he also pays attention to the offense, teams who get behind now press, knowing that the Jets can actually move the chains with Fitz, Marshall, Decker, Ivory.

The 2015 Jets are not the WORST offense in football anymore. Every 3 & out the Jets force with this defense might be another 5 minute drive from our offense & another 9 plays the opposing defense has to be on the field for. The Jets have worn teams out. Even if you look at the Eagles game, our defense SHUT THEM OUT in the 2nd half. Not having Ivory & Decker really hurt us in that game as we were unable to get anything going on the ground & were in constant 2nd & longs which put too much pressure on our journeyman QB.

Bowles did a whole lot with much less in Arizona which bodes well for us to get much better on defense as the season progresses. His relentless approach is taxing on the minds of the opposing QB & especially the Olines dealing with our defense. Think about this, with Sheldon returning the Jets will be rotating, Leo, Shel, Mo, Snacks, Coples, Douzable. Plus he'll be blitzing Harris, Davis, Reilly, Mauldin, Skrine, Pryor.

there is no doubt in my mind that the 2015 NY Jets defense going forward will be one of the toughest that teams have to prepare for including the Seahawks as they are just awesome lining up & playing without all the the moving around Bowles will do with our defense. Sans injury, this WILL BE the best defense in the league in the next 3/4s of the season.

Especially because of the inexperienced QBs we face. It is very difficult to be consistent facing a D like this, you may burn us once by usually we'll make more defensive plays than give up big plays. 

Cousins, Bortles, Carr, (Mallett/Hoyer), Taylor twice, then we've got a returning Romo (how confident will he be vs this D), Eli who's Oline is really iffy & a defense that our offense should be able to crush by then.

This season is looking really, really fun.

 

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I don't want to start another Rex thread, but I thought it is interesting to contrast this year's defense vs. the defenses Rex used to field.

I realize that we are only 4 game into the season, and that the secondary has been drastically upgraded, but at one point Ryan had younger Revis and Cro.  Either way, some interesting points.

The Jets defenses were good, often in the top 5 under Ryan, but a closer look at the numbers shows a different story.  The Jets are currently ranked 3rd, but look where the yards are.  They are 2 in passing and and 12th against the run.  In the past, we would dominate against the run, but be in the 20s against the pass.  Take a look at Buffalos current numbers, overall in the 20s, 29th against the pass, but 3rd against the run.  Sure, buffalo played the Pats and we haven't yet.  Also the season is young and we have maybe the best corners out there.  But, the trends seem to be the same, Rex was strong against the run, but would give up the big play; had trouble getting off the field.  He would blitz in the early downs and play soft on 3rd and in the 4th quarter.

Bowles, however, gets more aggressive as the game and downs go on.  In the 4th quarter he doesn't soften up.  Again, not dissing Ryan as I liked him when he was here, but this defense can be a truly dominant defense.  It still has a way to go, but I love the new philosophy.  Play the run, but in this league you have to stop the pass.  

I was never a fan of the defensive rankings being about yards.  A more telling ranking, IMO is points/game and takeaways.  Currently the Jets are ranked #1 in both.  More importantly, the Jets are averaging 13.8 points to game; #2 is at 17.2; that 3.4 difference may not seem big, but that difference also separates the #2 team from the #11 team.  In short that number is amazing.  We also have the same number of takeaways in 4 games that we had all year.  I think this goes to show the difference in philosophy.  When we have a close game, or a lead, we get even more aggressive on defense.  As the other offense is pressured to score, we get tough and step up.

The season is still young.  I hope this trend continues, but it is nice to have a lead in the 4th quarter and be confident that you can hold the lead.

Meh, that's short sighted.  Rex consistently had a top 5 D vs. the pass until the past few seasons when he was asked to use street FA's as CB's.

That said, I absolutely love what I've seen from this Bowles D.  I do think this D is significantly more talented than any D we've had in my lifetime but Bowles is also significantly more aggressive than any coach we've ever had. 

And I agree, the only thing that really matters is scoring and turnovers and this team is doing a great job from that perspective.  They're benefiting from a better offense too...but there is no mistaking the fact that Bowles is getting the most of out of this D.

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Meh, that's short sighted.  Rex consistently had a top 5 D vs. the pass until the past few seasons when he was asked to use street FA's as CB's.

That said, I absolutely love what I've seen from this Bowles D.  I do think this D is significantly more talented than any D we've had in my lifetime but Bowles is also significantly more aggressive than any coach we've ever had. 

And I agree, the only thing that really matters is scoring and turnovers and this team is doing a great job from that perspective.  They're benefiting from a better offense too...but there is no mistaking the fact that Bowles is getting the most of out of this D.

remember when you said the defense would go to hell without Rex? Admit you're a dickhole.

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I think it's hard to compare with factoring in rosters.

We had good defenses when Rex had the cornerbacks, and in this league we need cornerbacks badly.  In terms of efficency according to Football Outsiders, we had the No. 1 overall defense in 2009 (with No. 1 overall against the pass) and top 5 overall in 2010.  In 2011, we were No. 2 overall with being No. 2 in pass defense.  Obviously, the next year Revis got hurt and we went down the drain.  

I think it's more players than scheme, because if you don't have the players, no matter what exotic blitz or play you draw one, someone is going to beat your guy one on one and beat you.  Rex's Achilles heel is simple, he needs someone in the backfield that is deathly scary to CBs.  In Baltimore, he had Reed, in NY he had Revis.  If he can take away one guy on a play, he's excellent at game planning for the others.   When the CBs go away, then the advantage disappears and his blitzes are costly.  

Don't get me wrong, Bowles has been great, but lets not forget Ryan had a 3 year run here that rivals some of the best defensive runs from any team.  He fell off the last few years, and so did the roster, but those first three years, the defense was special.  This year looks special too, but it shouldn't negate the first three Ryan years.  

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most people on this board are not average fans but borderline obsessive (i know i am) so yeah we do care about dissecting all this stuff for the most part. it's fun.

he opened the thread, read and commented.  

But doesn't care 

ok

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I think it's hard to compare with factoring in rosters.

We had good defenses when Rex had the cornerbacks, and in this league we need cornerbacks badly.  In terms of efficency according to Football Outsiders, we had the No. 1 overall defense in 2009 (with No. 1 overall against the pass) and top 5 overall in 2010.  In 2011, we were No. 2 overall with being No. 2 in pass defense.  Obviously, the next year Revis got hurt and we went down the drain.  

I think it's more players than scheme, because if you don't have the players, no matter what exotic blitz or play you draw one, someone is going to beat your guy one on one and beat you.  Rex's Achilles heel is simple, he needs someone in the backfield that is deathly scary to CBs.  In Baltimore, he had Reed, in NY he had Revis.  If he can take away one guy on a play, he's excellent at game planning for the others.   When the CBs go away, then the advantage disappears and his blitzes are costly.  

Don't get me wrong, Bowles has been great, but lets not forget Ryan had a 3 year run here that rivals some of the best defensive runs from any team.  He fell off the last few years, and so did the roster, but those first three years, the defense was special.  This year looks special too, but it shouldn't negate the first three Ryan years.  

It is true, the rosters are different, but I think you can still have a discussion about the differences in philosophies; Ryan has a similarly talented team (maybe not as good), but it still kicking it against the Run and hurting against the pass (and points); where Bowels last year still had an aggressive defense without Revis, et. al.  I just thought it was an interesting point about the statistics.

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Rex Ryan's bugaboo is failure to force turnovers. He's obsessed with the rankings of HIS defense being top this or that in yards allowed, When you are aggressive for the ball sometimes you get burned for the big play. It's the tradeoff. the dumb end of year rankings seems more important or at least equally important to him as wins/losses. just another moral victory.

Edited by jgb
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These comparisons are absolutely useless. Can anyone here just enjoy the fact we are playing really well and we are 8 points away from being undefeated???

who cares about these comparisons of stats, coaches, blitzing philosophies..... 

 

no one cares....

I am enjoying the wins very much.  Just because we talk about something, doesn't mean we aren't enjoying the wins or the team.

Nothing we discuss here effects the games, so whether you are enjoying the team or not, the whole point to this website is to talk about the team.  Next time I will make sure that I check with you before posting to make sure it is rah rah or interesting enough...

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It is true, the rosters are different, but I think you can still have a discussion about the differences in philosophies; Ryan has a similarly talented team (maybe not as good), but it still kicking it against the Run and hurting against the pass (and points); where Bowels last year still had an aggressive defense without Revis, et. al.  I just thought it was an interesting point about the statistics.

It is a good point, I'm not taking anything away from it.  It's just hard to compare because I think Revis makes a huge difference on any defense.  Even last year, Bowles had a better secondary than Ryan right now with Peterson/Cro/Honey Badger.   What I do like about Bowles is that, his system seems much better at adapting to his personnel, where Ryan basically stuck with one plan and that was it.  It also didn't help that Ryan held too much loyalty towards players, which caused players to go unpunished for mistakes and not learn.  

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It is a good point, I'm not taking anything away from it.  It's just hard to compare because I think Revis makes a huge difference on any defense.  Even last year, Bowles had a better secondary than Ryan right now with Peterson/Cro/Honey Badger.   What I do like about Bowles is that, his system seems much better at adapting to his personnel, where Ryan basically stuck with one plan and that was it.  It also didn't help that Ryan held too much loyalty towards players, which caused players to go unpunished for mistakes and not learn.  

Yeah, it is a bit early to track this stuff anyway.  It will be interesting to see what the numbers show over the next few years if they are still both coaching.  I don't know if the D back when Ryan first got here was as dominant, but Revis was.  I give credit to Ryan for isolating Revis and letting the rest of the secondary to cover the other half of the field.  He created a blueprint that Tampa failed to leverage.  Either way, I thought the stats backed what I perceived in to be the difference in schemes/styles/attitudes.

Either way, I love to watch this defense play.  It is really fun to watch them shut down the other team.  In today's NFL, it is nice to see something other than an unstoppable offense.

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Bowles will do WHATEVER IT TAKES! He's much more creative than Rex in the sense he'll go 3 safeties depending on the opponent. But the biggest difference is the coaching (teaching). Rex has been fortunate to have been the DC on one of the most talented defenses in the HISTORY of the sport the Baltimore Ravens! Then he goes to the Jets who have Revis, Cromartie, Shaun Ellis & Harris in their prime & Tanny brings in Bart Scott & a bunch of bit players for him.

Now he's in Buffalo, a team that has an excellent Dline. Rex has been very fortunate. The years when he was asked to incorporate younger players into his scheme it was a huge failure. Honestly I don't remember a team that surrendered more 3rd &  longs & I've been watching football a long time. I think Bowles could "build a defense" given time, I think Rex has always been GIVEN a defense to work with, that's a big difference. 

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