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Hate to Admit it but Brady on Montana's Level


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NYG also have to thank Scott Norwood for missing that FG, but I think we both are debating the same point, and did Parcells win 2 with Simms?? I thought he only won one? When was there another time?

Gibbs also had that great redskins Dee, but yeah as I said I think we are debating the same point. Shula had Marino and couldn't win crap....granted his fins teams weren't good except that one year they went to the SB....and lost to Montana...

47 yards on chewed up grass w/ the SB on the line is a tough kick.  Norwood gets too much blame

 

he won one w/ Simms and one w/ Hostetler then, as you know, even made one w/ Drew Bledsoe which may have been his biggest miracle.

 

 

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Teams were allowed to hit Montana, so spare me this crap. 

11 TDs, 0 INTS, zero losses in Super Bowls and for all of you idiots who are gonna scream about Jerry Rice, Montana won two SBs before he ever heard Rice's name. Brady couldn't win with Randy Moss. 

If the refs didn't let anyone touch Montana and called the same bs PI calls they get today then this wouldn't be a discussion.  Brady is the beneficiary of systematic cheating, a game catered to the

He said if Marino cheated he would have won 7 times and that's a fact. His post had nothing to do with Brady. As for you. If you truly believe that cheating was the only reason NE won. You are delusional. Losers make excuses. Winners learn and move on. Deflategate was and is a joke. Enough of this crap. Can we discuss the Raiders, please.

Na, It wasnt the only reason why NE won. Anyone reading my prior post would know that to be a delusional assumption to make. However, all 4 of their championships have come under scrutiny and rightfully so because they were all during the Spygate era or the year of the deflated balls. So you can try to isolate this topic with your opinion about Deflategate, but Spygate, you know...the era that made Tom Brady a legend, wasnt a joke. And furthermore, the 2 years after spygate that they went to the SB they lost. Brady doesnt 1 unblemished championship. That's not loser talk, if I wanted to be a "guaranteed winner" I would have been a Pats fan for the past 15 years. 

For you to say that the cheating wasnt the only reason why they won is pathetic, because it only shows that they had enough talent to not HAVE TO cheat yet did it anyway for an edge and to make sure that they in fact won. If Marino and company cheated to MAKE SURE that they won then they would have, which in that case make his point factual

And if you no longer want to talk about this topic but move on to the Raiders, below is the proper thread. 

 

http://forums.jetnation.com/topic/123958-onto-oakland/

 

Edited by Villain The Foe
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Thats not CHEATING. Cheating means that you get an unfair advantage that the other team doesnt get. Both teams played on the same field, which was an NFL regulation field. 

Taping team practices during the superbowl is cheating. The other team didnt receive practice tape. Deflating the football below regulation to limit fumbles is cheating. The other team played with regulation footballs while the Pats didnt. 

there's no proof they taped SL's practice during the SB and I think that has been debunked.

what Miami did was gain an advantage or what they thought would be an advantage.  you think if they had marino and the high flying O they wouldn't have put the tarp down?

the Pats played w/ regulation footballs.

 

you know they are being watched like a hawk in regards to footballs this year and they only have 2 fumbles.

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I know its tough to compare QB stats across eras but just indulge me for a second. 

Taking out his rookie year and starting with Marino's 2nd year in the league, when he was MVP and became the first guy to throw for 5000 yards in a season and going foward 7 years and comparing them to Rodgers first 7 years as a starter, including this year, and you find some interesting info. 

Marino, in that stretch, was 2307 of 3885 (60%) for 29,206 yards, 221 TDs, 130 INTs, 7.52 YPA and 67-37 record. 

Rodgers is 2410 of 3657 (65.9) for 30,069 yards, 241 TDs, 59 INTs, 8.2 YPA and 76-33 record.

Very comparable numbers. 

The first takeaway is that Marino threw a lot for his era as he put up numbers comparable to a modern day passing offense. The second is Rodgers clear edge in accuracy. Almost a full 6% better completion rate plus less than half the number of interceptions. Now you can chalk some of that up to rules changes but not all of it. Rodgers' accuracy numbers are better by a wide enough margin that you can easily conclude he's the better passer. 

Marino's main w/r's were 5'9 smurfs plus what happened to the different era comparisons??

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Na, It wasnt the only reason why NE won. Anyone reading my prior post would know that to be a delusional assumption to make. However, all 4 of their championships have come under scrutiny and rightfully so because they were all during the Spygate era or the year of the deflated balls. So you can try to isolate this topic with your opinion about Deflategate, but Spygate, you know...the era that made Tom Brady a legend, wasnt a joke. And furthermore, the 2 years after spygate that they went to the SB they lost. Brady doesnt 1 unblemished championship. That's not loser talk, if I wanted to be a "guaranteed winner" I would have been a Pats fan for the past 15 years. 

For you to say that the cheating wasnt the only reason why they won is pathetic, because it only shows that they had enough talent to not HAVE TO cheat yet did it anyway for an edge and to make sure that they in fact won. If Marino and company cheated to MAKE SURE that they won then they would have, which in that case make his point factual. 

And if you no longer want to talk about this topic but move on to the Raiders, below is the proper thread. 

 

http://forums.jetnation.com/topic/123958-onto-oakland/

 

You are out of your mind. Spygate were videos that took place during games? They filmed from the wrong place in front of 70k people. It was a blatant FU to the NFL but even Mangini said it was really no big deal and was blown out of proportion. Only an idiot that never played would think minor ball inflation or deflation matters. Rather than continue to exchange insults I am just going to drop this conversation. It reminds me of when Red Sox fans said the only reason the Yankees won was due to steroids and overspending. Loser talk. Note: They no longer say any of that crap. 

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there's no proof they taped SL's practice during the SB and I think that has been debunked.

what Miami did was gain an advantage or what they thought would be an advantage.  you think if they had marino and the high flying O they wouldn't have put the tarp down?

the Pats played w/ regulation footballs.

 

you know they are being watched like a hawk in regards to footballs this year and they only have 2 fumbles.

The proof was burned. I forgot. 

 

You're right. 

 

Which this example of what I wrote above^^^^ should show you WHY they actually destroyed the evidence. It wasnt about the other teams, it was about never having the "proof", which by default will give benefit of the doubt. 

Edited by Villain The Foe
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47 yards on chewed up grass w/ the SB on the line is a tough kick.  Norwood gets too much blame

 

he won one w/ Simms and one w/ Hostetler then, as you know, even made one w/ Drew Bledsoe which may have been his biggest miracle.

 

 

Kickers should get it hard, that's their only job. Quoting a few NFL  players who have said that....

He won with Hostetler? damn I gotta go google that, I can't remember. ha ha and yeah the one with Drew was a miracle, because Elway and the Broncos dropped the ball and couldn't beat the jaguars with Mark Burnell at the helm.

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The proof was burned. I forgot. 

 

You're right. 

 

Which this example of what I wrote above^^^^ should show you WHY they actually destroyed the evidence. It wasnt about the other teams, it was about never having the "proof", which by default will give benefit of the doubt. 

WRONG! The taping of practices was urban legend. Man I respect the hate but give it up. Please. You are embarrassing all of us. 

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The proof was burned. I forgot. 

 

You're right. 

 

Which this example of what I wrote above^^^^ should show you WHY they actually destroyed the evidence. It wasnt about the other teams, it was about never having the "proof", which by default will give benefit of the doubt. 

there was proof of other taping, there was no proof of taping the walkthrough.

 

 

Kickers should get it hard, that's their only job. Quoting a few NFL  players who have said that....

He won with Hostetler? damn I gotta go google that, I can't remember. ha ha and yeah the one with Drew was a miracle, because Elway and the Broncos dropped the ball and couldn't beat the jaguars with Mark Burnell at the helm.

a 47 yarder today is much easier as K's are much better.  I don't think he had ever kicked one that long on grass in his career.  that was an incredibly difficult kick.  Buf lost b/c their D couldn't get off the field- remember that mark Ingram huge 3rd down play where he broke about 50 tackles on 3rd and long?  that play and Bruce Smith not being able to knock the ball out of Hostetler's hand on the safety cost Buf the game not the K.

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WRONG! The taping of practices was urban legend. Man I respect the hate but give it up. Please. You are embarrassing all of us. 

Outside of the Jets game where Mangini put it on blast, destroying of the evidence makes ALL of it urban legend now doesnt it? 

No need to be embarrassed by me, you should be embarrassed by the NFL. 

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Outside of the Jets game where Mangini put it on blast, destroying of the evidence makes ALL of it urban legend now doesnt it? 

No need to be embarrassed by me, you should be embarrassed by the NFL. 

Yes, the NFL sucks and I think they knew that other coaches did similar stuff. If it were just NE they'd smack em but I bet there was evidence that other teams were doing stuff too so the NFL covered it up. The NFL has messed up BountyGate (NO was innocent); Bullying of Martin (more than Incognito were involved); Rice and AP situations (way worse than deflategate); concussions; replacement refs (remember that)?

 

NFL executives are morons but the product is so good that even morons can run it profitably.

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Whatever was taped, would it be safe to assume that it gave the Patriots an unfair advantage? 

I would assume anything Bb is doing he is doing b/c it will give his team an edge.  I would also assume his opponents were doing something to try to gain an edge too.

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In the NFLPA's initial court filing July 31 in Brady's appeal of his four-game suspension, the union indicated that no player had ever been investigated or disciplined for violating the NFL's Competitive Integrity Policy. The brief said only teams and team personnel had been disciplined under the policy, and it cited an example from 2009.

That year, the NFL suspended a member of the New York Jets equipment staff after he "attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K balls prior to" a Jets game against the New England Patriots.

The union's brief goes on to say that while the NFL interpreted the equipment employee's action as an attempt to gain a competitive advantage, the Jets' kicker, "the player who could have benefited from the alleged 'attempt to gain a competitive advantage' was not investigated, let alone disciplined."

The Jets' kicker that season? Feely.

"We talked about the similarities in that case and the differences in the way the NFL responded," Feely said. "I didn't get in trouble. I had no culpability in that case."

 

Feely, who said he doesn't believe Brady did anything wrong or had anything to do with the deflated footballs, attended Monday's hearing at the request of Berman, who asked Feely and Giants co-owner John Mara to come to court and try to help work out a settlement between Brady and the NFL.

 

So if Feely sees this as crap. Who am I to argue with him? But I also see it as crap. NFL is so stupid. 

 

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there was proof of other taping, there was no proof of taping the walkthrough.

 

 

a 47 yarder today is much easier as K's are much better.  I don't think he had ever kicked one that long on grass in his career.  that was an incredibly difficult kick.  Buf lost b/c their D couldn't get off the field- remember that mark Ingram huge 3rd down play where he broke about 50 tackles on 3rd and long?  that play and Bruce Smith not being able to knock the ball out of Hostetler's hand on the safety cost Buf the game not the K.

Which is why Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Mike Martz are convinced otherwise. To the point Martz to this day disputes the statement Goodell and the NFL released on his behalf without talking to him about the text. 

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Which is why Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Mike Martz are convinced otherwise. To the point Martz to this day disputes the statement Goodell and the NFL released on his behalf without talking to him about the text. 

Nearly six months after the incident, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002,[7] an allegation denied by Belichick[6] and later retracted by the Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL.[8]

The NFL reached a deal with Walsh on April 23, 2008 and arranged a meeting between Goodell and Walsh.[9] Prior to the meeting, Walsh sent eight videotapes, containing opponents' coaches' signals from the 2000 through 2002 seasons, in accordance with the agreement.[10] Goodell and Walsh met on May 13, 2008, at which time Walsh told Goodell he and other Patriots employees were present at the Rams' walkthrough to set up video equipment for the game but that there was no tape of the walkthrough made; as a result, Goodell told the media no additional penalties would be brought against the Patriots.[11] Less than 24 hours later, the Herald issued an apology for the article about the alleged walkthrough tape.[12]

 

 

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Yes, the NFL sucks and I think they knew that other coaches did similar stuff. If it were just NE they'd smack em but I bet there was evidence that other teams were doing stuff too so the NFL covered it up. The NFL has messed up BountyGate (NO was innocent); Bullying of Martin (more than Incognito were involved); Rice and AP situations (way worse than deflategate); concussions; replacement refs (remember that)?

 

NFL executives are morons but the product is so good that even morons can run it profitably.

Dude, look we're not talking about speculating on other teams here. We're talking about concrete fact about a particular team and their quarterback cheating. No one is saying that the patriots are the only team to ever attempt to, or actually cheat in a game. We're talking about what we actually know though we dont actually know the specifics because those specifics seemed deep enough that the NFL didnt want to risk exposing those specifics. 

The problem here is reaching for the stars whenever someone slams brady with their opinon of him and his accomplishments based on the actual findings of wrong doing by his particular organization. 

I can sit here and say that I think other coaching/organizations/players have cheated. I honestly believe that has happened That doesnt dull the blow of what the Patriots were actually caught doing to the extent that even the NFL itself didnt even want to expose it to light. That is CRAZY to even fathom. 

 

Brady talent wise is un-freaking-believable. Every Jet fan knows this (so please keep that in mind), however, I have never heard of the "montana rule, the Marino rule, the Manning Rule, The Bradshaw rule, the Kelly rule, the Unitas rule, the Elway rule, the Favre rule, the Young rule, the Staubach rule, the Star rule etc, etc. 

Tom Brady has his own set of rules in the league. Lets even dismiss the cheating. Refs dont even call holding penalties on his linemen. They've been running illegal pick plays this year and I havent seen a ref call that bull yet. 

 

The difference between Tom Brady and MJ is that MJ did it right without cheating, and this why fans, not just of Chicago but of all teams love MJ. No one likes Tom Brady outside of NE...not even the actual players. They may not disrespect him, but they dont hold him at a high esteem...and it isnt because he's a tool on the field. People have talked about MJ being a complete bastard, even going as far as verbally abusing his teammates, but when the talk "of MJ" its allways with the utmost respect because of his unblemished accomplishments. 

 

Brady is a beast, but he's a cheat. 

 

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WRONG AGAIN!

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nfl-player-survey-deflategate_55cb7cd9e4b0f1cbf1e70aa9

 

Most NFL Players Don't Think Tom Brady Is A Cheater, Survey Finds

The ESPN poll also asked players whether or not they were upset with the Patriots for allegedly deflating footballs. While 72 percent believe that the Patriots did some deflating, only 16 percent are actually upset about it and 58 percent don't believe the Patriots are cheaters. 

Although it's hard to get upset when everyone's doing it: 68 percent of players think that other teams illegally tamper with footballs.   

 

 

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I would assume anything Bb is doing he is doing b/c it will give his team an edge.  I would also assume his opponents were doing something to try to gain an edge too.

I didnt ask you about what you thought other teams could be doing/not doing. Im asking you specifically about what we know, which is in reference to the Pats so I'll ask you again. 

Whatever the Patriots taped that they werent authorized to do, would it be safe to assume that it gave the Pats an unfair advantage based on the fact that they did it? 

A straight answer would be great. 

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isn't that the same organization that refused to put a tarp down before the 1982 AFC Championship Game?

 

the facts are NE has won 4 SBs and reached 6, they are the greatest dynasty in the SB era. we can make all the excuses we want but it won't change the facts.

Get back t me when the hang the tarp in their stadium as a tribute to cheating.  Snowblower breathe.  

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I didnt ask you about what you thought other teams could be doing/not doing. Im asking you specifically about what we know, which is in reference to the Pats so I'll ask you again. 

Whatever the Patriots taped that they werent authorized to do, would it be safe to assume that it gave the Pats an unfair advantage based on the fact that they did it? 

A straight answer would be great. 

I do not believe anything they did gave them an advantage that led to wins and or losses. I played and again I knew when teams were going to run and we could not stop them. This is D1 College Football. I knew on O what the D was doing and we still could not complete the pass. Football is a physical game and requires high precision. The Patriots won because they were better. Period. They lost to the Giants because on that day the Giants were better. Period. 

 

Your excuses are nauseating.

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I do not believe anything they did gave them an advantage that led to wins and or losses. I played and again I knew when teams were going to run and we could not stop them. This is D1 College Football. I knew on O what the D was doing and we still could not complete the pass. Football is a physical game and requires high precision. The Patriots won because they were better. Period. They lost to the Giants because on that day the Giants were better. Period. 

 

Your excuses are nauseating.

So, when you played D1 football when you say that you "knew" when teams were going to run, was that based on receiving unauthorized information or was that just a hunch given reading the offensive alignment? 

 

Please make the answer concise so I an clearly understand how it is you knew that info and properly make the comparison based on your answer. 

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In the NFLPA's initial court filing July 31 in Brady's appeal of his four-game suspension, the union indicated that no player had ever been investigated or disciplined for violating the NFL's Competitive Integrity Policy. The brief said only teams and team personnel had been disciplined under the policy, and it cited an example from 2009.

That year, the NFL suspended a member of the New York Jets equipment staff after he "attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K balls prior to" a Jets game against the New England Patriots.

The union's brief goes on to say that while the NFL interpreted the equipment employee's action as an attempt to gain a competitive advantage, the Jets' kicker, "the player who could have benefited from the alleged 'attempt to gain a competitive advantage' was not investigated, let alone disciplined."

The Jets' kicker that season? Feely.

"We talked about the similarities in that case and the differences in the way the NFL responded," Feely said. "I didn't get in trouble. I had no culpability in that case."

 

Feely, who said he doesn't believe Brady did anything wrong or had anything to do with the deflated footballs, attended Monday's hearing at the request of Berman, who asked Feely and Giants co-owner John Mara to come to court and try to help work out a settlement between Brady and the NFL.

 

So if Feely sees this as crap. Who am I to argue with him? But I also see it as crap. NFL is so stupid. 

 

Just what the heck is Berman doing asking Feely and Mara to voice their opinions?  If the jets equipment guy doctored a ball at the request of feely then  feely should have faced discipline.

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Which is why Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Mike Martz are convinced otherwise. To the point Martz to this day disputes the statement Goodell and the NFL released on his behalf without talking to him about the text. 

the losing team whines, that is shocking!

I didnt ask you about what you thought other teams could be doing/not doing. Im asking you specifically about what we know, which is in reference to the Pats so I'll ask you again. 

Whatever the Patriots taped that they werent authorized to do, would it be safe to assume that it gave the Pats an unfair advantage based on the fact that they did it? 

A straight answer would be great. 

I don't know the answer to that question just as I don't know what other teams were also doing.  all I know is the results and the result show a dynasty- the greatest dynasty of the SB era.

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I do not believe anything they did gave them an advantage that led to wins and or losses. I played and again I knew when teams were going to run and we could not stop them. This is D1 College Football. I knew on O what the D was doing and we still could not complete the pass. Football is a physical game and requires high precision. The Patriots won because they were better. Period. They lost to the Giants because on that day the Giants were better. Period. 

 

Your excuses are nauseating.

Sorry this line of thinking has NOTHING to do with their cheating.  Nothing, it sounds like lame pats fans comments on it.

Did an NFL team expressly against the rules make video tapes?  did they?  Yes or no?  If yes, you get penalized.

Did an NFL team/QB have their team equipment people tamper with in game footballs against express rules and in a deceitful manner?  Did they?  Yes or no?  If yes, you get penalized.

The number of people trotting out things like, hey they outscored indy 28-0 in the 2nd half with good footballs so it;s no big deal they cheated is mind boggling.

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I don't know the answer to that question just as I don't know what other teams were also doing.  all I know is the results and the result show a dynasty- the greatest dynasty of the SB era.

You dont know the answer to this question, yet you know leaving the tarp out during a game that both teams play for is cheating? 

 

Is that what you're saying right now? lol. 

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You dont know the answer to this question, yet you know leaving the tarp out during a game that both teams play for is cheating? 

 

Is that what you're saying right now? lol. 

I know that Ne thinks whatever they are doing is giving them an edge just like I know Miami thought not putting the tarp down gave them an edge.  what is so difficult about this?

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Leonard Marshall broke Montana's back with the crown of his helmet and there wasn't a single flag thrown on the play. You literally cannot lay a finger on Brady above the numbers without it raining flags. Just stop.

All the top QB get special treatment today.. It was even worse when Namath played..

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