Hate to Admit it but Brady on Montana's Level

[Villain The Foe]

I know that Ne thinks whatever they are doing is giving them an edge just like I know Miami thought not putting the tarp down gave them an edge.  what is so difficult about this?

The entire NFL knows what NE thinks of their actions. I asked you a simple (yet telling) question in order to see your response. You can talk about every other team in comparison. Yet when I ask you a question based on what "your" assumption would be for NE gaining unauthorized information suddenly dont know the answer to what your own conclusion of the matter would be. 

 

That level of protection is just as good as the league my friend!

 

 

[nyjunc]

The entire NFL knows what NE thinks of their actions. I asked you a simple (yet telling) question in order to see your response. You can talk about every other team in comparison. Yet when I ask you a question based on what "your" assumption would be for NE gaining unauthorized information suddenly dont know the answer to what your own conclusion of the matter would be. 

 

That level of protection is just as good as the league my friend!

 

 

I have answered it numerous times, you don't like my answer.  I can't help you w/ that.

 

[Villain The Foe]

I have answered it numerous times, you don't like my answer.  I can't help you w/ that.

 

I never said you didnt answer it (numerous times) Im saying that your answer was dodgy with proof of your prior examples regarding other teams. 

If you cant assume that NE could have gained an advantage with already established unauthorized information that they had no business having in the first place, then how do you expect me or anyone else to take your comparison seriously on any capacity? 

 

[bitonti]

Bit your not even 40 LOL I've been a fan since the Titan days and I'm not negative..

I've been an optimist die hard homer until recently. Now I've given up, they are 4-2 and people are crying about not beating the SB champs in their house.

Clearly the team is better off with me this way. 

[nyjunc]

I never said you didnt answer it (numerous times) Im saying that your answer was dodgy with proof of your prior examples regarding other teams. 

If you cant assume that NE could have gained an advantage with already established unauthorized information that they had no business having in the first place, then how do you expect me or anyone else to take your comparison seriously on any capacity? 

 

not dodging anything, using the same line of thinking for all. 

of course they could have, I acknowledged that by saying the reason they do it is b/c they think it will.  I am not sure what the issue is here?

[T0mShane]

All the top QB get special treatment today.. It was even worse when Namath played..

Yeah, I remember that grainy black and white film that showed Bubba Smith grazing his fingertips across Namath's shoulder pads and five, six flags went flying and they gave the Jets a TD.

[Villain The Foe]

not dodging anything, using the same line of thinking for all. 

of course they could have, I acknowledged that by saying the reason they do it is b/c they think it will.  I am not sure what the issue is here?

The line of thinking may be the same, but the consistency surely isnt. What I see below is throwing in other teams when talking about the Pats cheating then contradicting yourself when I finally got you to concentrate on the Pats and leave the other teams out of it. You know that the the Fins "intentionally" tried to cheat by using the same field yet you cant even give a simple "yes" when asked about the unauthorized recording, meanwhile stating that you dont know what "other teams" were also doing, furthermore contradicting yourself in prior posts. 

NE will always look to bend the rules as will the Jets, Giants and the other 29 teams. 

 

the dolphins intentionally decided not to put the tarp down on the orange bowl during a rainstorm before the title game against us but you guys are ok w/ that?  

 

 

I don't know the answer to that question just as I don't know what other teams were also doing. 

[afosomf]

All the top QB get special treatment today.. It was even worse when Namath played..

WTF, every QB was treated the same, they were all left to be destroyed. QB's were beat up to a pulp back then. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

So, when you played D1 football when you say that you "knew" when teams were going to run, was that based on receiving unauthorized information or was that just a hunch given reading the offensive alignment? 

 

Please make the answer concise so I an clearly understand how it is you knew that info and properly make the comparison based on your answer. 

Game film, formation and tendencies. Even if we stole their practice film it would not have helped much because you can run multiple plays from similar formations and your "guess" could work against you. Which is why I and most coaches laugh it off. How it does help is that you can practice on D and on O what they are doing but again NE was filming during the game just in the wrong spot. ZERO proof they filmed practices.

 

I don't know how our coaches got their info. to be honest. But I just HATE your line of thinking. It reeks of loser.

[PFSIKH]

Brady made BB not the other way around.  If not for Brady BB would be a DC somewhere today.

I disagree.  Obviously, Brady deserves credit for the last 15 seasons.

The argument that he was a failure in Cleveland is weak.  He took over a bad team during an era when there was not the total free agency of today.  He built them into a playoff team. 

He made mistakes there, but the argument he failed is dumb.

[nyjunc]

The line of thinking may be the same, but the consistency surely isnt. What I see below is throwing in other teams when talking about the Pats cheating then contradicting yourself when I finally got you to concentrate on the Pats and leave the other teams out of it. You know that the the Fins "intentionally" tried to cheat by using the same field yet you cant even give a simple "yes" when asked about the unauthorized recording, meanwhile stating that you dont know what "other teams" were also doing, furthermore contradicting yourself in prior posts. 

 

 

one sentence had nothing to do w/ the other.  you guys kept asking about NE cheating and one of you said Miami didn't, I just gave an example.  I think ALL teams do, does NE do it more than others? maybe but I ma not going to tear down what they have accomplished based on some speculation.  if the league isn't taking trophies away what does it matter?

[nyjunc]

I disagree.  Obviously, Brady deserves credit for the last 15 seasons.

The argument that he was a failure in Cleveland is weak.  He took over a bad team during an era when there was not the total free agency of today.  He built them into a playoff team. 

He made mistakes there, but the argument he failed is dumb.

we are allowed to disagree.

 

he took over a team that was a year removed from an AFC Championship game app which was their 3rd in 4 years.  he did not take over the 1989 Jets.

 

He made OBNE playoff app in 5 years which came in year 4, Bruce Coslet only needed year 2 to get the Jets to the playoffs and then after that playoff app they were a losing team again the next season.  I don't think any man knows the game of football better than BB but there is more to being a HC than just x's and o's and he failed pre Brady.

[Villain The Foe]

Game film, formation and tendencies. Even if we stole their practice film it would not have helped much because you can run multiple plays from similar formations and your "guess" could work against you. Which is why I and most coaches laugh it off. How it does help is that you can practice on D and on O what they are doing but again NE was filming during the game just in the wrong spot. ZERO proof they filmed practices.

 

I don't know how our coaches got their info. to be honest. But I just HATE your line of thinking. It reeks of loser.

So, you compare your work of studying game tape of prior teams and your success at it (which is perfectly legal) to the Pats recording the gameplan of what the Rams were actually going to do in the superbowl which many of their plays they claimed they "never" ran so there was no prior game tape to review. Lets add to this that the fact of recording this was unauthorized to begin with. 

 

If you want, start at the 2:25 mark. This doubt dont come up when people are good at studying tape. destroying the evidence only solidify's that. You can act like its a "joke" as you said about deflategate. You can pretend that you following the rules in college makes not following the rules in the NFL okay, but if that was actually true we wouldnt be having this conversation. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

one sentence had nothing to do w/ the other.  you guys kept asking about NE cheating and one of you said Miami didn't, I just gave an example.  I think ALL teams do, does NE do it more than others? maybe but I ma not going to tear down what they have accomplished based on some speculation.  if the league isn't taking trophies away what does it matter?

Your examples presented was to make the Patriots cheating kinda like "equal ground". This is why you continue to talk about ALL TEAMS. You dont know if all teams do (they just may) what you know for a fact is that the Pats actually did. 

 

To defend this crazy to me. And yes, I know you'll say you're not defending it. But your examples show you do. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is ZERO proof they taped Rams practices. That story was retracted. Do you not understand that or are you trying to be funny?

[AzogtheDefiler]

Your examples presented was to make the Patriots cheating kinda like "equal ground". This is why you continue to talk about ALL TEAMS. You dont know if all teams do (they just may) what you know for a fact is that the Pats actually did. 

 

To defend this crazy to me. And yes, I know you'll say you're not defending it. But your examples show you do. 

We don't know anything for a "FACT". You do though it seems.

[Villain The Foe]

There is ZERO proof they taped Rams practices. That story was retracted. Do you not understand that or are you trying to be funny?

The proof of what they did or didnt do was destroyed. 

You're right. 

[Villain The Foe]

We don't know anything for a "FACT". You do though it seems.

We know for a fact that you think studying game tape is the same as recording unauthorized recording of walkthroughs or hand signals. 

 

And there is "fact" here. The guy who recorded the unauthorized walkthroughs said out his own mouth that he did it. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The proof of what they did or didnt do was destroyed. 

You're right. 

They interviewed the guy who was taping and he had been long fired by NE and he said they did not tape. The paper retracted the story. You just want to believe those tapes had the answers to everything including the meaning of life. If they made them public, NE would have requested that other teams show their tapes, which would show the same crap from different angles. NFL wanted the story over and done with. 

 

Again, if you believe all of the success was due to cheating, you are insane.

[AzogtheDefiler]

We know for a fact that you think studying game tape is the same as recording unauthorized recording of walkthroughs or hand signals. 

 

And there is "fact" here. The guy who recorded the unauthorized walkthroughs said out his own mouth that he did it. 

NO HE DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He said they DID NOT RECORD. And yes, if you played (you didn't) it would not matter to you. Still have to execute. 

[PFSIKH]

we are allowed to disagree.

he took over a team that was a year removed from an AFC Championship game app which was their 3rd in 4 years.  he did not take over the 1989 Jets.

He made OBNE playoff app in 5 years which came in year 4, Bruce Coslet only needed year 2 to get the Jets to the playoffs and then after that playoff app they were a losing team again the next season.  I don't think any man knows the game of football better than BB but there is more to being a HC than just x's and o's and he failed pre Brady.

That is a bad argument.  Look at the Colts.  I think they are a paper tiger, but they look bad.  The same can be said of the Ravens or 49ers for that matter.

Belichick took over a bad 3-13 team nowhere near a AFC Championship team.

[AzogtheDefiler]

Brady can make up for many a coaching miscue. 

[Villain The Foe]

They interviewed the guy who was taping and he had been long fired by NE and he said they did not tape. The paper retracted the story. You just want to believe those tapes had the answers to everything including the meaning of life. If they made them public, NE would have requested that other teams show their tapes, which would show the same crap from different angles. NFL wanted the story over and done with. 

 

Again, if you believe all of the success was due to cheating, you are insane.

I want to believe that the NFL would have put this to rest by showing what actually occurred. 

But instead they've allowed me as well as NFL players to speculate, along with allowing the defenders of this speculate that nothing actually happened. 

 

You're just as much the speculator bro. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I want to believe that the NFL would have put this to rest by showing what actually occurred. 

But instead they've allowed me as well as NFL players to speculate, along with allowing the defenders of this speculate that nothing actually happened. 

 

You're just as much the speculator bro. 

Correct but the tapes were game tapes not Rams SB walk through or practice. We could also speculate they had the JFK murder on there but it would likely not be accurate. Their informer stated as much. And their informer had nothing to gain by lying. But yes I am speculating too. 

[Villain The Foe]

Correct but the tapes were game tapes not Rams SB walk through or practice. We could also speculate they had the JFK murder on there but it would likely not be accurate. Their informer stated as much. And their informer had nothing to gain by lying. But yes I am speculating too. 

You dont know that. Thats speculation, remember? 

[nyjunc]

Your examples presented was to make the Patriots cheating kinda like "equal ground". This is why you continue to talk about ALL TEAMS. You dont know if all teams do (they just may) what you know for a fact is that the Pats actually did. 

 

To defend this crazy to me. And yes, I know you'll say you're not defending it. But your examples show you do. 

I know all teams look to bend rules to gain an edge.

That is a bad argument.  Look at the Colts.  I think they are a paper tiger, but they look bad.  The same can be said of the Ravens or 49ers for that matter.

Belichick took over a bad 3-13 team nowhere near a AFC Championship team.

you think 5 years and 1 playoff app, 1 winning season is a good job?  the '76 Bucs were the worst team in pro football history and in their 4th season they reached an NFC title game.  he had a great chance to succeed in Cleveland and he failed to do so. 

[Flushing Roots]

I don't think Montana is p*ssy whipped.

[AzogtheDefiler]

Educated guess. As is yours. Don't know does not equal they cheated. 

[Villain The Foe]

Educated guess. As is yours. Don't know does not equal they cheated. 

So your speculation is now an educated guess? 

 

lol. You won. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

So your speculation is now an educated guess? 

 

lol. You won. 

Correct. If NE were a terrible team post their "GATES" you could argue your educated guess is better but since their performance has remained strong I would argue that cheating had very little to do with it if at all. 

[Villain The Foe]

Correct. If NE were a terrible team post their "GATES" you could argue your educated guess is better but since their performance has remained strong I would argue that cheating had very little to do with it if at all. 

I concede. lol. 

[Jet Nut]

I know its tough to compare QB stats across eras but just indulge me for a second. 

Taking out his rookie year and starting with Marino's 2nd year in the league, when he was MVP and became the first guy to throw for 5000 yards in a season and going foward 7 years and comparing them to Rodgers first 7 years as a starter, including this year, and you find some interesting info. 

Marino, in that stretch, was 2307 of 3885 (60%) for 29,206 yards, 221 TDs, 130 INTs, 7.52 YPA and 67-37 record. 

Rodgers is 2410 of 3657 (65.9) for 30,069 yards, 241 TDs, 59 INTs, 8.2 YPA and 76-33 record.

Very comparable numbers. 

The first takeaway is that Marino threw a lot for his era as he put up numbers comparable to a modern day passing offense. The second is Rodgers clear edge in accuracy. Almost a full 6% better completion rate plus less than half the number of interceptions. Now you can chalk some of that up to rules changes but not all of it. Rodgers' accuracy numbers are better by a wide enough margin that you can easily conclude he's the better passer. 

similar numbers but keep in mind Marino played before the rules that give a huge advantage to Rodgers and Marino never played with a good running game .

ill take either QB.  

[nyjunc]

similar numbers but keep in mind Marino played before the rules that give a huge advantage to Rodgers and Marino never played with a good running game .

ill take eithere QB

Marino is the best pure passer I have ever seen and he never had the talent around him that a Manning has had but it all counts.  his lack of postseason success brings him down a notch.  I still have him top 5 all time just not up for the top spot w/ Brady and Montana.

[PFSIKH]

you think 5 years and 1 playoff app, 1 winning season is a good job?  the '76 Bucs were the worst team in pro football history and in their 4th season they reached an NFC title game.  he had a great chance to succeed in Cleveland and he failed to do so. 

And what was the Bucs record in their 5th season?   I would give John Robinson a good job seeing he did not even have restricted free agency.

Anyways...you are judging Belichick by today's standard where it is rare an owner allows a FO to build a solid team over the old '5 year plan".  He took over a bad team.  They were were a lot better the next season.  And if not for Modell announcing their move in the middle of the season thus gutting the team; the team likely would not have collapsed.

 

[Cro's kids]

Thank you.

Comparing players from different eras never works out. The state of the NFL right now is that of 1980s NHL. 

 

 

That said, Brady is obviously one of the greatest ever. I'd have more respect if he wasn't such a sissy bitch though. Same goes for a guy like Sidney Crosby.

Great comparison dude, this sport really has changed a lot to cater to recreational football viewer