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Hate to Admit it but Brady on Montana's Level


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Teams were allowed to hit Montana, so spare me this crap. 

11 TDs, 0 INTS, zero losses in Super Bowls and for all of you idiots who are gonna scream about Jerry Rice, Montana won two SBs before he ever heard Rice's name. Brady couldn't win with Randy Moss. 

If the refs didn't let anyone touch Montana and called the same bs PI calls they get today then this wouldn't be a discussion.  Brady is the beneficiary of systematic cheating, a game catered to the

I was making an extreme example. I played and you have to execute. Cheating Shmeating. We knew teams were doing certain things many a time but still could not stop it. Brady is simply very good the sooner we attribute that to skill and not to supernatural crap the better off we will be and can beat them. All I am saying. Spygate happened in 07. He has been pretty good since then. No?

Never said Brady was anything but great.  But stretching the rules and flat out cheating made  the Pats unstoppable.  Bellicheat was a hack coach before Brafy showed up.  Proof of Brady's ability.  Are you suggesting they stopped cheating in 07?  

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Never said Brady was anything but great.  But stretching the rules and flat out cheating made  the Pats unstoppable.  Bellicheat was a hack coach before Brafy showed up.  Proof of Brady's ability.  Are you suggesting they stopped cheating in 07?  

NE will always look to bend the rules as will the Jets, Giants and the other 29 teams. 

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we all hate him on the field but the man gets it done much more often than not.  I cannot wait until he retires but while he is playing I will root against him every week but appreciate the greatness I am watching.  I hated Marino too and I appreciated his greatness as well but thankfully he didn't win any SBs.  it sucks that such great QBs have played/are playing for div rivals.

Matino wins 7 superbowls if he had an organization that cared enough to cheat.  Even just a little.  Fact!!!

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you know what nevermind. I agree with @azogthedefiler; good post @junc

 

What are you neverminding yourself for? No need to hold your tongue. Everyone in this thread said that Brady is one of the greatest to ever do it, and I can point to a post within this very thread of me saying it. 

 

Whats the problem? 

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Matino wins 7 superbowls if he had an organization that cared enough to cheat.  Even just a little.  Fact!!!

isn't that the same organization that refused to put a tarp down before the 1982 AFC Championship Game?

 

the facts are NE has won 4 SBs and reached 6, they are the greatest dynasty in the SB era. we can make all the excuses we want but it won't change the facts.

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Nothing needs to be said after this. ^^^^^

except it's a lie and again the dolphins intentionally decided not to put the tarp down on the orange bowl during a rainstorm before the title game against us but you guys are ok w/ that?  I am b/c they earned the right but it's gamesmanship like so many things NE has done, every team looks for an edge.

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Bill Belichick without Tom Brady:

1991-1995 Browns

2000 Pats

2001 Pats first 2 games

2008 pats last 15 games

113 games total in regular season, 7+ seasons

51-62, 45%

ONE playoff app

1-1 playoff record

ZERO div titles

ZERO div rd wins

ZERO title game apps

ZERO SB apps

5 LOSING seasons in 7+ seasons

Bill Belichick w/ Tom Brady:

2001-2014(minus 2 games in 2001 and 15 in 2008)

2000 Pats won 5 games, 2001 Pats started 0-2 including losing to a bad Bengal team week 1.

213 games, 14+ seasons

166-47, 78%

12 playoff apps

12 div titles

6 conf titles

4 SB titles

9 title game apps

11 div rd apps

missed ONE postseason

worst record was 9-7(tied for 1st but lost div on tiebreakers)

 

Brady made BB not the other way around.  If not for Brady BB would be a DC somewhere today.

 

 

 BB won a ring as a DC for the giants....his game plan for that SB is listed in canton.

and there's been plenty coaches who wouldn't be much without their QB.

bill walsh/george seifert without Montana. I know Walsh came up with the "west coast offense"

Dikta didn't look so great without that 85 bears defense. (no a QB but i'm saying)

mike shanahan without Elway..

 

a good coach is a good coach, a great player or great players make a difference BUT you don't start penalizing coaches for having or not having great players....if you are good, it will show.

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What are you neverminding yourself for? No need to hold your tongue. Everyone in this thread said that Brady is one of the greatest to ever do it, and I can point to a post within this very thread of me saying it. 

 

Whats the problem? 

1. the post was never supposed to be directed to you in the first place, something got messed up as I was trying to reply to another poster.

 

and

2. i'm not wasting my time, there are certain posters that are gone stay with their stitch, so there's nothing else I need to add that I haven't already said and was said here by other posters.

 

 

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 BB won a ring as a DC for the giants....his game plan for that SB is listed in canton.

and there's been plenty coaches who wouldn't be much without their QB.

bill walsh/george seifert without Montana. I know Walsh came up with the "west coast offense"

Dikta didn't look so great without that 85 bears defense. (no a QB but i'm saying)

mike shanahan without Elway..

 

a good coach is a good coach, a great player or great players make a difference BUT you don't start penalizing coaches for having or not having great players....if you are good, it will show.

I am talking strictly as a HC.  the gameplan that allowed Buffalo to score 19 pts in 19 mins of TOP.  NYG won that game b/c they controlled the ball for 40+ mins and kept the high scoring bills O off the field.

Great coaches usually have great QBs but how many were complete failures as a HC w/o the greatest?  Parcells won 2 w/ Simms and a backup Hostetler, Gibbs won 3 w/ 3 different QBs none of which will be in the Hall.  Walsh only had Montana, Lombardi only had Starr but how many were failures w/o top QBs?

 

BB has developed into a great coach, he has always been a genius w/ schemes but he adapted his style.  it's a chance he doesn't get w/o Brady.

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we all hate him on the field but the man gets it done much more often than not.  I cannot wait until he retires but while he is playing I will root against him every week but appreciate the greatness I am watching.  I hated Marino too and I appreciated his greatness as well but thankfully he didn't win any SBs.  it sucks that such great QBs have played/are playing for div rivals.

Good post, junc

you know what nevermind. I agree with @azogthedefiler; good post @junc

 

Now let's all hold hands and sing ******* Kumbaya.

 

What the **** is happening to this country?

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So if Ryan Mallett had the benefit of "cheating" he'd be great too? Same with Bledsoe? So if the Jets "cheat" Fitzy would be an All Pro. You sound ridiculous. 

WTF are you talked no about?  I said he cheated, That Spygate wasn't a mystery, which is an idiotic contention.  I didn't say one word about it making A QB.  But will now.  Take a real good QB and give him defensive plays and formations and he becomes great.  Would Fitz be better knowing defensive plays ahead of time?  Yes.  Was Cassel better?  Yes.  Is this guesswork?  No.  

The most ridiculous idea is that it had no benefit to the Pats offense.  Only a fool believes Belichick ignored repeated warnings to stop doing it, risked his money, draft picks and his legacy over something that provided no benefit.  That would be stupid 

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Pats fans acting like anyone is going to take their titles seriously in 10, 20 years. I can't wait for Belichick to enter the Hall so we can play a fun game called, "find one article about his induction that doesn't refer to cheating." 

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Rodgers easily completes passes I've never seen Marino even attempt. 30 yards downfield into a 10-inch window between 3 defenders where only his guy has a shot at catching it. 

I watched a lot of Marino. He couldn't do that. He had the 2nd quickest release of all time behind Namath and a cannon but he couldn't match Rodgers combination of power and accuracy. 

To me it's Marino.  I love Rodgers game but just think as a pure passer Marino was a little better.  Either way, neither sucks, neither has a huge advantage.  I'd gladly take either HOF QB to start my team

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except it's a lie and again the dolphins intentionally decided not to put the tarp down on the orange bowl during a rainstorm before the title game against us but you guys are ok w/ that?  I am b/c they earned the right but it's gamesmanship like so many things NE has done, every team looks for an edge.

Wait, so the Dolphins intentionally decided to not put the tarp down that BOTH teams had to play on? So I guess its cheating for the Jets to play the Raiders at home and the Jets wear their white uniforms forcing the Raiders to wear black and absorb that heat from the sun huh? 

 

The things that you're comparing makes me chuckle. 

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1. the post was never supposed to be directed to you in the first place, something got messed up as I was trying to reply to another poster.

 

and

2. i'm not wasting my time, there are certain posters that are gone stay with their stitch, so there's nothing else I need to add that I haven't already said and was said here by other posters.

 

 

You didnt want to....talk to me???? 

 

You hurt my feelings man. 

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To me it's Marino.  I love Rodgers game but just think as a pure passer Marino was a little better.  Either way, neither sucks, neither has a huge advantage.  I'd gladly take either HOF QB to start my team

We had a shot to take Marino and blew it..I would have loved to see Marino throwing to Walker,Toon and Mickey Shula with Freeman and Hector as his backs.. And the Sack Exchange defense..:(

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I am talking strictly as a HC.  the gameplan that allowed Buffalo to score 19 pts in 19 mins of TOP.  NYG won that game b/c they controlled the ball for 40+ mins and kept the high scoring bills O off the field.

Great coaches usually have great QBs but how many were complete failures as a HC w/o the greatest?  Parcells won 2 w/ Simms and a backup Hostetler, Gibbs won 3 w/ 3 different QBs none of which will be in the Hall.  Walsh only had Montana, Lombardi only had Starr but how many were failures w/o top QBs?

 

BB has developed into a great coach, he has always been a genius w/ schemes but he adapted his style.  it's a chance he doesn't get w/o Brady.

NYG also have to thank Scott Norwood for missing that FG, but I think we both are debating the same point, and did Parcells win 2 with Simms?? I thought he only won one? When was there another time?

Gibbs also had that great redskins Dee, but yeah as I said I think we are debating the same point. Shula had Marino and couldn't win crap....granted his fins teams weren't good except that one year they went to the SB....and lost to Montana...

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How is your opinion a fact? LOL

Its not a fact. What IS a fact though is the cheating surrounding the QB that Brady has been apart of and how people use those championships as an example of superiority. 

Every one of his championship wins have been under a cloud of skepticism given what they've done. And whats funny is that the years that they made it to the SB and there wasnt anything surrounding them during those appearances they lost. 

Their first 3 SB wins were during the Spygate era and their 4th was during deflategate. 

 

You're missing crushers point 

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We had a shot to take Marino and blew it..I would have loved to see Marino throwing to Walker,Toon and Mickey Shula with Freeman and Hector as his backs.. And the Sack Exchange defense..:(

I like our chances with that team.  Thought about it often sitting in the stands Fins v Jets

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Ring/Cups/Championships argument for individuals in TEAM sports is not something I participate in. 

 

This isn't a knock on Brady. But under the same rules there's a ton of guys from the past with  similar or better #s. This is like saying the 3 point line doesn't affect current #s. It sure as sh*t does. 

 

'Stop saying different rules are different!'

Come on dude.

 

 

I didnt bring up different rules etc.... I simply measure results.  RESULTS, not stats.  If we use Stats inly , Brady is still in the top but 6 SB appearances, 4 wins, 5000 passing yards, 50 TD's a season etc.  He's no Ken Obrien,.

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Wait, so the Dolphins intentionally decided to not put the tarp down that BOTH teams had to play on? So I guess its cheating for the Jets to play the Raiders at home and the Jets wear their white uniforms forcing the Raiders to wear black and absorb that heat from the sun huh? 

 

The things that you're comparing makes me chuckle. 

yes they did, we were more of a speed team, they were more plodding.  they left it up to help them.

 

BB did that to Indy back in 2003 or 2004.  it's gamesmanship when anyone else does it but cheating when BB does it.

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To me it's Marino.  I love Rodgers game but just think as a pure passer Marino was a little better.  Either way, neither sucks, neither has a huge advantage.  I'd gladly take either HOF QB to start my team

I know its tough to compare QB stats across eras but just indulge me for a second. 

Taking out his rookie year and starting with Marino's 2nd year in the league, when he was MVP and became the first guy to throw for 5000 yards in a season and going foward 7 years and comparing them to Rodgers first 7 years as a starter, including this year, and you find some interesting info. 

Marino, in that stretch, was 2307 of 3885 (60%) for 29,206 yards, 221 TDs, 130 INTs, 7.52 YPA and 67-37 record. 

Rodgers is 2410 of 3657 (65.9) for 30,069 yards, 241 TDs, 59 INTs, 8.2 YPA and 76-33 record.

Very comparable numbers. 

The first takeaway is that Marino threw a lot for his era as he put up numbers comparable to a modern day passing offense. The second is Rodgers clear edge in accuracy. Almost a full 6% better completion rate plus less than half the number of interceptions. Now you can chalk some of that up to rules changes but not all of it. Rodgers' accuracy numbers are better by a wide enough margin that you can easily conclude he's the better passer. 

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yes they did, we were more of a speed team, they were more plodding.  they left it up to help them.

 

BB did that to Indy back in 2003 or 2004.  it's gamesmanship when anyone else does it but cheating when BB does it.

Thats not CHEATING. Cheating means that you get an unfair advantage that the other team doesnt get. Both teams played on the same field, which was an NFL regulation field. 

Taping team practices during the superbowl is cheating. The other team didnt receive practice tape. Deflating the football below regulation to limit fumbles is cheating. The other team played with regulation footballs while the Pats didnt. 

Edited by Villain The Foe
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Its not a fact. What IS a fact though is the cheating surrounding the QB that Brady has been apart of and how people use those championships as an example of superiority. 

Every one of his championship wins have been under a cloud of skepticism given what they've done. And whats funny is that the years that they made it to the SB and there wasnt anything surrounding them during those appearances they lost. 

Their first 3 SB wins were during the Spygate era and their 4th was during deflategate. 

 

You're missing crushers point 

He said if Marino cheated he would have won 7 times and that's a fact. His post had nothing to do with Brady. As for you. If you truly believe that cheating was the only reason NE won. You are delusional. Losers make excuses. Winners learn and move on. Deflategate was and is a joke. Enough of this crap. Can we discuss the Raiders, please.

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