MLB Hot Stove - Offseason Thread (2015-2016 Edition)

[CrazyCarl40]

Not knowing much about the prospects they gave, thats awesome for them. Top 3 closer in the game. Sox bullpen struggled last year, he should undoubtedly improve that. 

It was a solid package but one was a CF who is blocked by Betts and one was a SS blocked by Bogaerts. I now expect them to drop serious coin on a FA pitcher. 

Kimbrel is 28 has 3 years left on his deal and slides into the 9th inning easy. Really helps a battered pen. 

[Morrissey]

It was a solid package but one was a CF who is blocked by Betts and one was a SS blocked by Bogaerts. I now expect them to drop serious coin on a FA pitcher. 

Kimbrel is 28 has 3 years left on his deal and slides into the 9th inning easy. Really helps a battered pen. 

You don't trade two top 50 prospects for a closer. The fact they are blocked doesn't diminish their actual value and shouldn't play into what you receive for them. For comparison if the Yankees traded Aaron Judge and Jorge Mateo for Kimbrel I would be furious.

This deal makes me wonder what the Yankees could get for Andrew Miller, but I doubt anyone else would give us a similar package.

[CrazyCarl40]

You don't trade two top 50 prospects for a closer. The fact they are blocked doesn't diminish their actual value and shouldn't play into what you receive for them. For comparison if the Yankees traded Aaron Judge and Jorge Mateo for Kimbrel I would be furious.

This deal makes me wonder what the Yankees could get for Andrew Miller, but I doubt anyone else would give us a similar package.

The Red Sox have one of the best minor league systems in baseball. Those guys are a small drop in a big lake. Kimbrel is worth it. 

[Morrissey]

The Red Sox have one of the best minor league systems in baseball. Those guys are a small drop in a big lake. Kimbrel is worth it. 

which Dembrowski had nothing to do with. Now he's eating away at that lake with trades like this. I guess he's just using the Sox resources to do what he was  incapable of doing in Detroit, build a bullpen. Next move. Spend $170 million on a starter.

[Morrissey]

Again though, thanks for setting the market. Now if anyone wanted Andrew Miller it will cost you 2 top 100 prospects.

[Jetlife33]

The Phillies have announced that they’ve acquired starting pitcher Jeremy Hellickson from the Diamondbacks, with 20-year-old righty Sam McWilliams heading to Arizona. The 28-year-old Hellickson is projected to make$6.6MM in 2016 in his final season before free agency, and he will presumably help fill out the rotation for a rebuilding Phillies team.

[PFSIKH]

You don't trade two top 50 prospects for a closer. The fact they are blocked doesn't diminish their actual value and shouldn't play into what you receive for them. For comparison if the Yankees traded Aaron Judge and Jorge Mateo for Kimbrel I would be furious.

This deal makes me wonder what the Yankees could get for Andrew Miller, but I doubt anyone else would give us a similar package.

The top two (Magot and Guerra) were rated anywhere from JAG to first division all stars.

Could they be Bagwells?  Maybe, but chances are they are going to be a little more than JAGs.

[Morrissey]

 

Come on man, JAGS? Put down the koolaid. They are at the very least consensus top 100 prospects. And many talent valuations had top Margot and Guerra top 50 and higher.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/padres-get-a-haul-for-craig-kimbrel/

 

[chirorob]

which Dembrowski had nothing to do with. Now he's eating away at that lake with trades like this. I guess he's just using the Sox resources to do what he was  incapable of doing in Detroit, build a bullpen. Next move. Spend $170 million on a starter.

Dembroski did not do a good job with the Tigers over the last few years.  And that really seems like a lot to give up for a closer.  I love having Miller and Betances back there, but for 4 good prospects, absolutely trading Miller.  Really for 1 Legit RH hitting prospect and a couple decent ones, I'm moving him.

[drdetroit]

Hooray the Sux now have a closer now all they need is like 4-5 starting pitchers.  

[CrazyCarl40]

Hooray the Sux now have a closer now all they need is like 4-5 starting pitchers.  

Probably just the one. It'll be a big one, but they need a #1 and then the rest will fall into place. Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley is a pretty solid 2-5. 

[Jetlife33]

Probably just the one. It'll be a big one, but they need a #1 and then the rest will fall into place. Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley is a pretty solid 2-5. 

my guess is Cueto

[CrazyCarl40]

my guess is Cueto

I wouldn't hate it. Depends on the numbers. I'd rather Price. But then who wouldn't?

[Jetlife33]

I wouldn't hate it. Depends on the numbers. I'd rather Price. But then who wouldn't?

I think the Cubs land Price. And there's rumors that the Giants are looking to spend big on an ace they might get heavily involved. I could see the sox landing price I just think Cueto is more likely. I'm a Cueto fan I just wonder how his arm would hold up over a long term deal. 

[drdetroit]

The Mutts are going to come to Bostons rescue.  They better get both Bogaerts and Betts for Harvey otherwise that's rape.

 

Cubs are going after Price.  I heard Giants are in the mix for Greinke.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

The Mutts are going to come to Bostons rescue.  They better get both Bogaerts and Betts for Harvey otherwise that's rape.

 

Cubs are going after Price.  I heard Giants are in the mix for Greinke.

 

Betts and Bogaerts are going nowhere. And your use of the R word is inappropriate. 

[Morrissey]

The "r word" haha

I get your point, but rape is not profanity. It's like the word 'murder' is not profanity, but what it means is awful.

[PFSIKH]

Come on man, JAGS? Put down the koolaid. They are at the very least consensus top 100 prospects. And many talent valuations had top Margot and Guerra top 50 and higher.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/padres-get-a-haul-for-craig-kimbrel/

 

JAGs might be a bit harsh, but they are prospects.

They are projecting as everyday regulars.  Not All-Time greats.  Maybe they develop into a Jeff Bagwell HofFer types, but until they do...they are closer to JAGs than great.

[Morrissey]

JAGs might be a bit harsh, but they are prospects.

They are projecting as everyday regulars.  Not All-Time greats.  Maybe they develop into a Jeff Bagwell HofFer types, but until they do...they are closer to JAGs than great.

You can say that for every prospect ever. I guess you would of been okay trading Boagarts and Betts a few years ago before they performed in the big leagues, because they were just prospects. No one is ever projected as all-time greats, projecting a prospect as everyday player makes them pretty damn valuable. If these two players are everyday players that means you traded a starting CFer and SS  for a closer (who's getting paid a lot of money)

[PFSIKH]

You can say that for every prospect ever. I guess you would of been okay trading Boagarts and Betts a few years ago before they performed in the big leagues, because they were just prospects. No one is ever projected as all-time greats, projecting a prospect as everyday player makes them pretty damn valuable. If these two players are everyday players that means you traded a starting CFer and SS  for a closer (who's getting paid a lot of money)

A closer that lead the NL in saves for four straight seasons until last year.

The have a proven player for two players that are projected to be every day players for whatever that is worth and addressed a clear weakness.    

Will Middlebrooks was projected as an every day player and that did not exactly pan out.

 

[Thor99]

.No one is ever projected as all-time greats

Hughes, Phil. 

[chirorob]

A closer that lead the NL in saves for four straight seasons until last year.

The have a proven player for two players that are projected to be every day players for whatever that is worth and addressed a clear weakness.    

Will Middlebrooks was projected as an every day player and that did not exactly pan out.

 

Boston got a quality player, no 2 ways.  They gave up some assets to get him.  You never know with prospects, but it was a steep price for a closer.

[PFSIKH]

Boston got a quality player, no 2 ways.  They gave up some assets to get him.  You never know with prospects, but it was a steep price for a closer.

Again, I think we are talking semantics. 

The Sox needed a closer.  Koji is old and has broken down or been injured the last two seasons. 

While Guerra and Margot might eventually be valuable, they are not right now and had little chance to play.

I find it surprising that people are downplaying the roles of relief pitchers when the Royals have shown what a strong core of relief pitchers can do for a team.

[Morrissey]

"Saves" meaningless stat. He's a great closer, but like with all closers he's a 1 inning guy who's  thrown 70 innings in a season once, last time 5 years ago.   Everyday players hold more value. I sure as heck wouldn't of traded Didi Gregorius and Brett Gardner for Craig Kimbell. And those two aren't exactly the best starters in baseball at their respected positions.

[Scott Dierking]

"Saves" meaningless stat. He's a great closer, but like with all closers he's a 1 inning guy who's  thrown 70 innings in a season once, last time 5 years ago.   Everyday players hold more value. I sure as heck wouldn't of traded Didi Gregorius and Brett Gardner for Craig Kimbell. And those two aren't exactly the best starters in baseball at their respected positions.

Closers are an absolute waste of talent.

Unless you don't have one.

25 years ago I would have made the argument that closers are an overrated animal. Can't make that argument anymore, and you canals start including "bridges to closers" as being very important also.

The Royals just proved how late innings are now the most important piece of close games. I don't begrudge any team paying what it feels is necessary to end games.

[faba]

Since there are no complete games anymore how could you say to have a legit closer is not priority- this comes from the guys who team Yanks that had one of  the best of all time - take him away and see what the Yanks would have accomplished

[Jetsfan80]

"Saves" meaningless stat. He's a great closer, but like with all closers he's a 1 inning guy who's  thrown 70 innings in a season once, last time 5 years ago.   Everyday players hold more value. I sure as heck wouldn't of traded Didi Gregorius and Brett Gardner for Craig Kimbell. And those two aren't exactly the best starters in baseball at their respected positions.

Are wins meaningful?  Because relievers directly contribute to wins and stuff. 

Just because a guy can get a save despite holding a 3-run lead, thus making the statistic itself a bit dubious, doesn't mean you don't need quality relief pitching.  Plenty of teams use closer-by-committee, and that's fine.  But all that means is they don't have a guy they feel comfortable pitching the 9th all his own or possibly getting 4+ outs to close the game. 

You need a lot of arms these days, and while it's optimal to have 3-4 really good arms back there instead of just 1 dominant one, 1 is better than none.  That's pretty much what the Red Sox had before adding Kimbrel; no quality back-end relievers.  Can't begrudge this decision at all.

[Morrissey]

1 guy does not make a bullpen. Having a good closer is meaningless if the bridge to that closer isn't good too. While in the broad sense a bullpen has become more valuable because starters throw less, and run production is down, but individually relief pitchers role has been shrunk to 1 batter, 1 inning, ect. They have become specialists. 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, 9th inning guy (the closer, who gets paid a lot more than the 7th and 8th inning guy becuase they only got 21st or 24th outs of the game and not 27th out) Plus these pitchers do not pitch at high level for very long. That's what sperated Marinao Rivera from everyone else. Street, Papelbon, Soria, Soriano, Feliz all great, but only for a short period. You can make an argument based on 2015 Kimbrel decline has already begun.

 

[Jetlife33]

The Mariners have officially struck a deal to acquire outfielder Leonys Martin and righty Anthony Bass from the Rangers in exchange for right-handed reliever Tom Wilhelmsen, outfielder James Jones, and a player to be named later.

[Jetlife33]

The Reds are shopping Frazier and Chapman, oh man. It would gut the farm for any team but those are some seriously good players. 

[PFSIKH]

"Saves" meaningless stat. He's a great closer, but like with all closers he's a 1 inning guy who's  thrown 70 innings in a season once, last time 5 years ago.   Everyday players hold more value. I sure as heck wouldn't of traded Didi Gregorius and Brett Gardner for Craig Kimbell. And those two aren't exactly the best starters in baseball at their respected positions.

That is a totally different trade.

Didi is entering his prime.  I would not trade Didi straight up for Kimbrel either.  As far as Gardner, you need to throw something in with him.  He is old and the epitome of a JAG.

[Scott Dierking]

1 guy does not make a bullpen. Having a good closer is meaningless if the bridge to that closer isn't good too. While in the broad sense a bullpen has become more valuable because starters throw less, and run production is down, but individually relief pitchers role has been shrunk to 1 batter, 1 inning, ect. They have become specialists. 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, 9th inning guy (the closer, who gets paid a lot more than the 7th and 8th inning guy becuase they only got 21st or 24th outs of the game and not 27th out) Plus these pitchers do not pitch at high level for very long. That's what sperated Marinao Rivera from everyone else. Street, Papelbon, Soria, Soriano, Feliz all great, but only for a short period. You can make an argument based on 2015 Kimbrel decline has already begun.

 

You basically regurgitated what I said in a different manner.

Of course one guy does not make a bullpen DUH. But, you have to start somewhere, don't you? 

Bottom line, the Red Sox (who I have no want to pat on the back), got one of the best closers in the game. That will help them. Are they finished constructing their team? I don't know, and don't care.

But, a closer is a pretty important deal these days.

[Jetsfan80]

The Reds are shopping Frazier and Chapman, oh man. It would gut the farm for any team but those are some seriously good players. 

They might as well trade Votto too.  They're going to need to build from the ground up to compete in that division.

[Jolot]

so Mets are saying Ben Zobrist is apparently too rich for our blood? rut roh...

[Jetsfan80]

so Mets are saying Ben Zobrist is apparently too rich for our blood? rut roh...

Probably not the most outlandish possibility.  He was a ridiculous tough out all World Series long and everybody saw that to be the case.  He's about to get paid in a big way.