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CrazyCarl40

No More FanDuel or DraftKings in New York

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@espn: BREAKING: New York attorney general calls DraftKings and FanDuel illegal gambling, sends cease-and-desist notices: https://t.co/JHLifMIb9G

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holy sh*t

they probably shouldn't have advertised every 10 minutes on every channel, lol

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Utter nonsense.  I might not be originally from this country, but I live here now and love the US.  But stupid ridiculous crap like this.......seriously???  Fantasy football is now classed as gambling and must be banned, so after you delete your account feel free to go out and buy a lottery ticket, and don't forget your "Ca$h For Life" scratch ticket as well.  Arse utter.

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What actions should we take as users? I invested in next weeks game's already... Not sure what my next step is. This is sad. 

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What actions should we take as users? I invested in next weeks game's already... Not sure what my next step is. This is sad. 

read the fine print on the user agreement

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What actions should we take as users? I invested in next weeks game's already... Not sure what my next step is. This is sad. 

withdraw all your money out of your account like yesterday

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I just read the user agreement.  you waive all of your rights to sign up, including class action lawsuits on fanduel. 

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I didn't want to pull any money out until next year as to avoid any tax issues for 2015. This sucks man. I was really enjoying this

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I didn't want to pull any money out until next year as to avoid any tax issues for 2015. This sucks man. I was really enjoying this

The timing of a cash withdrawal has no effect on the taxability in 2015.  The total profit earned (winnings - entry fees) during 2015 will we taxable in 2015.  If your net earnings are greater than $ 600, FD will issue a 1099.  If FD did not collect your address & SS # when you signed up, they certainly will do it before processing a withdrawal.

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I haven't given them any info regarding social. So it is winnings minus entry fees? Let me pm you.

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What actions should we take as users? I invested in next weeks game's already... Not sure what my next step is. This is sad. 

The cease & desist notice allows FD & DK five business days to respond to the preposed litigation, so there is a chance that everything continues as normal over the NFL weekend.  If they decide to comply sooner, NY players will have their future contest entry cancelled and fee refunded.

There is no real threat to the cash in customer's accounts.  The AG has confirmed that they are not going after anyone's winnings, only to stop the DFS sites from accepting contest fees.

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This week only! Enter promocode "Cease and Desist" for free entry!

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You guys couldn't have thought this was going to last forever.

 

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"With your next deposit, we'll match every dollar we spend on legal fees, up to 200%...  just go to the microphone in the top right corner and enter promo code: 'busted'. "

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@espn: BREAKING: New York attorney general calls DraftKings and FanDuel illegal gambling, sends cease-and-desist notices: https://t.co/JHLifMIb9G

 

The difference with daily fantasy is that it is played over the course of a day or week instead of a full season. The immediacy of the transaction more closely resembles sports gambling.

Schneiderman's office made a distinction between daily fantasy and traditional fantasy sports in the letters sent to the companies Tuesday. He said traditional fantasy sports were “legally played by millions of New York residents.”

“Unlike traditional fantasy sports, (daily fantasy) is designed for instant gratification, stressing easy game play and no long-term strategy,” the letters said. “For these and other reasons, (daily fantasy) functions in significantly different ways from sites that host traditional fantasy sports.”

Both companies have been operating for a few years but didn’t really get much of a legal target on their backs until this year, when they bombarded sports fans with relentless advertisements bragging about cash payouts.

That marketing campaign seems to have backfired.

The companies have promoted their product like “a lottery, representing the game to New Yorkers as a path to easy riches that anyone can win,” said the letters from the attorney general’s office, signed by internet bureau chief Kathleen McGee.

The letters likened daily fantasy to poker, in which “a small number of professional gamblers profit at the expense of casual players.”

“To date, our investigation has shown that the top one percent of (the companies’) winners receive the vast majority of the winnings,” the letters said.

 F-ck with the bull, and you get the horns.  Draft Kings and Fandrool did this to themselves with their obnoxious gorilla advertising.  They argue that it's a game of skill in defending their practices and yet promote their product constantly  as though you need no skill...  "just set your lineup under the salary cap, sit back and watch your team win"  just like most games of chance, aka gambling.  

Frankly, their claims and internal processes need to be monitored and regulated.  Do you have any idea how many fake, robot entries of their own that they add to the tournaments in order to fill them?  Entries that have a "Belichikian" inside info advantage as to % ownership?  I don't.  But the it's something investigators must look into.  Would you be surprised if you learned that they do this on a regular basis, tipping the odds in favor of greater profits for themselves and in a corrupt unfair way to the vast majority of their users?

The NY AG met with execs from both companies over the past 2 weeks, yet both companies are acting surprised.  Obviously, the AG didn't like what he heard from them and their concealment of the processes by which they operate.  I highly doubt that this is a publicity ploy by the AG, as Fanduel lamely claims.  There are better ways to gain publicity than pising off tens of thousands of players on DK and FD.  The AG doesn't like the concealed way in which these two slimy companies operate.  Their Patriots-like refusal to cooperate also had an impact. 

They did this to themselves. Now there are at least 7 states that have closed the door on them: Nevada, New York, Louisiana, Washington, Montana, Arizona, Iowa.  Pennsylvania, Florida and Illinois are reported to be on their way to doing the same if they haven't already.  The door is closing.

 

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As it should

The real hypocrites are sports leagues like MLB promoting and taking big payoffs from these obvious gambling scams while banning one of their greatest players and all time hits leader from their hall of fame for making some small time bets

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oh you gotta be kidding me.

 

On FD page

Notice – This weekend’s contests will run as normal, with no restriction for NY users to play. FanDuel received a letter from the NYAG’s but no action is immediately required. We will alert NY users immediately if there is any changes to your ability to enjoy playing on FanDuel. We believe the AG’s interpretation of the law is wrong and that he has mischaracterized our customers and our business. Please reach out to our customer service team if you have questions.

Edited by straightcashhomiez

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Remember, just because the AG says it's illegal, doesn't really mean it is... he is interpreting the law one way, whereas FanDuel lawyers are interpreting another way. He can send letters all day long, but this will end up in court, where a judge will decide if any laws were broken. FanDuel has no choice but to ignore this guy as they can't afford to lose state by state. They will say it's perfectly legal, and continue to let customer's bet. Then either they will sue the state, or the state will sue them, and a judge will sort the mess.

If FanDuel *thinks* they could be breaking the law, they might err on the side of caution and freeze NY players. But any other state could now jump on the bandwagon and try something similar. FanDuel needs to constantly add users to increase revenue, so dropping an entire state, that would do the opposite.

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Remember, just because the AG says it's illegal, doesn't really mean it is... he is interpreting the law one way, whereas FanDuel lawyers are interpreting another way. He can send letters all day long, but this will end up in court, where a judge will decide if any laws were broken. FanDuel has no choice but to ignore this guy as they can't afford to lose state by state. They will say it's perfectly legal, and continue to let customer's bet. Then either they will sue the state, or the state will sue them, and a judge will sort the mess.

If FanDuel *thinks* they could be breaking the law, they might err on the side of caution and freeze NY players. But any other state could now jump on the bandwagon and try something similar. FanDuel needs to constantly add users to increase revenue, so dropping an entire state, that would do the opposite.

I think Fanduel and DK will keep things going as usual and hope to at least ride things out through the football season while the litigation plays out in court. In the end, I doubt they prevail in the courts and will need to buy a few politicians in albany to introduce legislation making daily fantasy sports legal. Considering the amount of money they make and the amount of money they generate for the NFL/NBA/MLB it wouldn't be too hard to "lobby" enough politicians. The question is whether they are smart enough to get things done. 

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I think Fanduel and DK will keep things going as usual and hope to at least ride things out through the football season while the litigation plays out in court. In the end, I doubt they prevail in the courts and will need to buy a few politicians in albany to introduce legislation making daily fantasy sports legal. Considering the amount of money they make and the amount of money they generate for the NFL/NBA/MLB it wouldn't be too hard to "lobby" enough politicians. The question is whether they are smart enough to get things done. 

If they were smart, they would get out in front of "regulation" especially in light of the scandal that happened back a few weeks ago. There is no doubt that this is gambling. I don't care how good of a "picker" you are, the reason the pro's on those sites play dozens of a games a week is that they need to cover their bases and have as many odd combinations as possible. It's not secret who the best QB, WR, RB, K, TE, and D are in the game, and usually those guys perform, but it's getting lucky with the guys who come out of nowhere for that one week, and kill it. If you have a couple of those guys on your team, that pushes you to the top. You will win nothing much if you just pick from the top ranked guys. You need those diamonds in the rough.

You use more "skill" here than simply picking a team to win or lose, but I'd still say even if you are the greatest fantasy player, it's still 60/40 skill to luck, 70/30 maybe at the highest. But it's certainly not all skill.

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If they were smart, they would get out in front of "regulation" especially in light of the scandal that happened back a few weeks ago. There is no doubt that this is gambling. I don't care how good of a "picker" you are, the reason the pro's on those sites play dozens of a games a week is that they need to cover their bases and have as many odd combinations as possible. It's not secret who the best QB, WR, RB, K, TE, and D are in the game, and usually those guys perform, but it's getting lucky with the guys who come out of nowhere for that one week, and kill it. If you have a couple of those guys on your team, that pushes you to the top. You will win nothing much if you just pick from the top ranked guys. You need those diamonds in the rough.

You use more "skill" here than simply picking a team to win or lose, but I'd still say even if you are the greatest fantasy player, it's still 60/40 skill to luck, 70/30 maybe at the highest. But it's certainly not all skill.

Picking stocks requires a fair bit of luck as well. Same thing with poker. The notion that anything that involves luck is therefore gambling and needs to be banned is absurd. 

If someone called you up and said there is a stock that has a 70pct chance of being bought for double the current stock price you would be a fool not to buy the stock. Meanwhile, the State runs commercials for lotteries with the slogan "Dollar and a dream" or "You got to be in it to win it." The hypocrisy is off the charts

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Picking stocks requires a fair bit of luck as well. Same thing with poker. The notion that anything that involves luck is therefore gambling and needs to be banned is absurd. 

If someone called you up and said there is a stock that has a 70pct chance of being bought for double the current stock price you would be a fool not to buy the stock. Meanwhile, the State runs commercials for lotteries with the slogan "Dollar and a dream" or "You got to be in it to win it." The hypocrisy is off the charts

I don't understand the lottery comparison.  There are plenty of problems with the lottery, but it is run by the state and proceeds are supposed to go to education.  It's goal is not private sector profit.  Stocks and poker are already regulated.  That 70% change of the stock doubling sounds like what got Martha Stewart sent to Alderson.

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I don't understand the lottery comparison.  There are plenty of problems with the lottery, but it is run by the state and proceeds are supposed to go to education.  It's goal is not private sector profit.  Stocks and poker are already regulated.  That 70% change of the stock doubling sounds like what got Martha Stewart sent to Alderson.

The lottery comparison is bad, because the lottery is a far worse gamble than daily fantasy sports. Your chances of winning back your money playing on Fanduel is FAR greater than coming out ahead playing the lottery.  Do a little research on the "house" edge for lotteries and you will see  how awful a gamble the lotteries are. Normally the state takes close to HALF the money in the pot. That is highway robbery, but people like you are brainwashed into thinking its OK because it pays for education. Instead, it's just a tax on the poor and a way for politicians to raise money without raising taxes.

http://www.npr.org/2014/07/16/332015825/lotteries-take-in-billions-often-attract-the-poor

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The lottery comparison is bad, because the lottery is a far worse gamble than daily fantasy sports. Your chances of winning back your money playing on Fanduel is FAR greater than coming out ahead playing the lottery.  Do a little research on the "house" edge for lotteries and you will see  how awful a gamble the lotteries are. Normally the state takes close to HALF the money in the pot. That is highway robbery, but people like you are brainwashed into thinking its OK because it pays for education. Instead, it's just a tax on the poor and a way for politicians to raise money without raising taxes.

http://www.npr.org/2014/07/16/332015825/lotteries-take-in-billions-often-attract-the-poor

I don't really care about the return on "investment."  I don't dispute any of that, but that is not the reason it is a poor example.  It is a poor example because one is state sponsored and the other is private.  I am fine with it solely because of the bold.  Whether there should be a lottery or not is a different discussion, but it doesn't change the fact that this sh*t is gambling.  We all knew this wouldn't last.

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I don't really care about the return on "investment."  I don't dispute any of that, but that is not the reason it is a poor example.  It is a poor example because one is state sponsored and the other is private.  I am fine with it solely because of the bold.  Whether there should be a lottery or not is a different discussion, but it doesn't change the fact that this sh*t is gambling.  We all knew this wouldn't last.

Horse racing is gambling. 

Picking stocks is gambling

Blackjack/Slot machines are gambling. 

Lotteries are gambling

Yet all 3 of those are legal in NY. The AG is doing this solely to make a name for himself and early indications are that most people aren't happy with his choice so perhaps it will backfire. Either way, we are still a long way away from Fanduel and DK being shutdown in NY. The AG would need to get an injunction which is something he likely couldn't get from a Judge in this case. That is why DK/FD have released statement saying they will continue to operate in NY. Hopefully, the legislature will try to win some votes by enacting legislation making DFS legal and at the same time imposing some regulations. 

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I think you guys miss my point. I don't really give a ****. You want to gamble? Gamble. You want gambling in the private sector? Fair enough, knock yourself out, but the idea that is the same as the lottery and horse racing is silly. The stock market? C'mon. Sure there are parallels, but it isn't not quite the same thing. In all honesty, I don't give a ****. I'm not giving any of them my money - though I do have some in the market because I am not a moron.

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Horse racing is gambling. 

Picking stocks is gambling

Blackjack/Slot machines are gambling. 

Lotteries are gambling

Yet all 3 of those are legal in NY. The AG is doing this solely to make a name for himself and early indications are that most people aren't happy with his choice so perhaps it will backfire. Either way, we are still a long way away from Fanduel and DK being shutdown in NY. The AG would need to get an injunction which is something he likely couldn't get from a Judge in this case. That is why DK/FD have released statement saying they will continue to operate in NY. Hopefully, the legislature will try to win some votes by enacting legislation making DFS legal and at the same time imposing some regulations. 

it's SIMPLE.  NY wants revenue and right now they aren't getting the same amount from these companies as they are from the other gambling you cited.  If this is gambling, so it Wall Street 

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Horse racing is gambling. 

Picking stocks is gambling

Blackjack/Slot machines are gambling. 

Lotteries are gambling

Yet all 3 of those are legal in NY. The AG is doing this solely to make a name for himself and early indications are that most people aren't happy with his choice so perhaps it will backfire. Either way, we are still a long way away from Fanduel and DK being shutdown in NY. The AG would need to get an injunction which is something he likely couldn't get from a Judge in this case. That is why DK/FD have released statement saying they will continue to operate in NY. Hopefully, the legislature will try to win some votes by enacting legislation making DFS legal and at the same time imposing some regulations. 

they are all gambling, but they are all subject to State regulation, inspection, audit... you name it.  DFS is not.  DFS processes are hidden and non disclosed.  You can't ignore that significant difference.  If Nigel whats-his-name  (CEO and founder of Fanduel) is willing to open the books and let the state examine their processes, procedures and evaluate the fairness thereof, then fine.  But unmonitored/unregulated multi million dollar gambling will never be allowed in NY or anywhere else, nor should it be.  Too much room for deception, abuse and exploitation. 

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they are all gambling, but they are all subject to State regulation, inspection, audit... you name it.  DFS is not.  DFS processes are hidden and non disclosed.  You can't ignore that significant difference.  If Nigel whats-his-name  (CEO and founder of Fanduel) is willing to open the books and let the state examine their processes, procedures and evaluate the fairness thereof, then fine.  But unmonitored/unregulated multi million dollar gambling will never be allowed in NY or anywhere else, nor should it be.  Too much room for deception, abuse and exploitation. 

You are correct.... but what took so long for them to come to this conclusion?  If some idiot didn't look at the usage %s before putting in lineups on the other site, this would have never happened.  It's one thing to react to impropriety, it's yet another to anticipate problems and be proactive.  You'd expect the AG to be proactive.

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Picking stocks requires a fair bit of luck as well. Same thing with poker. The notion that anything that involves luck is therefore gambling and needs to be banned is absurd. 

If someone called you up and said there is a stock that has a 70pct chance of being bought for double the current stock price you would be a fool not to buy the stock. Meanwhile, the State runs commercials for lotteries with the slogan "Dollar and a dream" or "You got to be in it to win it." The hypocrisy is off the charts

Wow. You must be kidding.  

The Securities and Exchange Commission heavily regulates stock, bond and commodities trading.  The rules are voluminous, strict and rigidly enforced and audited by a Federal agency (i.e. 10b-5, insider trading and the like).  The States' agencies monitor, regulate and audit the lotteries and have an established set of rules and norms that must strictly be adhered to.

DFS has no such protections for the consumer.  NONE.  Yesterday, the CEO and founder of Fanduel, Nigel Something spoke on an XM radio interview and admitted as much.  He actually said he would welcome and embrace adding a layer of regulation and other consumer protection elements to the DFS world.  He obviously knows that DFS will be banned in many more states until such time as they allow the appropriate and necessary regulation/monitoring/auditing for YOUR protection and mine.  Regulation is coming. And it is severely needed.

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You are correct.... but what took so long for them to come to this conclusion?  If some idiot didn't look at the usage %s before putting in lineups on the other site, this would have never happened.  It's one thing to react to impropriety, it's yet another to anticipate problems and be proactive.  You'd expect the AG to be proactive.

I don't think it was that one incident.  I think it is the product of the massive  gorilla marketing strategy they employed this summer and fall.  It was overwhelming.  Had they done the same last year, this might have reared its ugly head then.  For the most part, they flew under radar until this massive advertising campaign... one claimed to be the most massive advertising campaign for a single product ever, excluding beer advertising.

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I don't think it was that one incident.  I think it is the product of the massive  gorilla marketing strategy they employed this summer and fall.  It was overwhelming.  Had they done the same last year, this might have reared its ugly head then.  For the most part, they flew under radar until this massive advertising campaign... one claimed to be the most massive advertising campaign for a single product ever, excluding beer advertising.

I think it's a combo.  If they were quiet, then no one would have noticed what went down with the play list.  If they didn't have the problem with the play-list, people wouldn't have went nuts about the ads.  Kind of a chicken or the egg argument.

 

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Wow. You must be kidding.  

The Securities and Exchange Commission heavily regulates stock, bond and commodities trading.  The rules are voluminous, strict and rigidly enforced and audited by a Federal agency (i.e. 10b-5, insider trading and the like).  The States' agencies monitor, regulate and audit the lotteries and have an established set of rules and norms that must strictly be adhered to.

DFS has no such protections for the consumer.  NONE.  Yesterday, the CEO and founder of Fanduel, Nigel Something spoke on an XM radio interview and admitted as much.  He actually said he would welcome and embrace adding a layer of regulation and other consumer protection elements to the DFS world.  He obviously knows that DFS will be banned in many more states until such time as they allow the appropriate and necessary regulation/monitoring/auditing for YOUR protection and mine.  Regulation is coming. And it is severely needed.

FD and DK have said they would accept regulations. They know its coming, but if people like me are willing to play on their sites despite gov't regulation why shouldn't I be allowed?

And just because there is gov't regulation doesn't mean the general public isn't getting fleeced. People like you think playing the lottery is OK because it is regulated, yet the regulations call for the lottery to pay out only about 60 cents of every dollar they collect. Do you even know what that means? That is legal robbery yet you don't mind because it's "regulated." 

I guarantee you that I will make more money playing on FD then you will ever make playing the lottery. With, or without, regulation.  Why? Because I know what I am doing. I know plenty of people that do well playing on FD and some that do not, but I have never met anyone that is up, long term, playing scratch offs.

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FD and DK have said they would accept regulations. They know its coming, but if people like me are willing to play on their sites despite gov't regulation why shouldn't I be allowed?

And just because there is gov't regulation doesn't mean the general public isn't getting fleeced. People like you think playing the lottery is OK because it is regulated, yet the regulations call for the lottery to pay out only about 60 cents of every dollar they collect. Do you even know what that means? That is legal robbery yet you don't mind because it's "regulated." 

I guarantee you that I will make more money playing on FD then you will ever make playing the lottery. With, or without, regulation.  Why? Because I know what I am doing. I know plenty of people that do well playing on FD and some that do not, but I have never met anyone that is up, long term, playing scratch offs.

Must you distort or deflect from everything I write?  I never said that regulation promotes greater chance of winning.  I know the lottery pays out a smaller percentage, which is why I never play it.  Odds of winning are completely irrelevant to any point I am trying to make. I am discussing one thing and one thing alone:  The potential for dishonesty and abuse. There is no consumer protection at all right now in this massive unregulated industry.

There won't be any underhanded false claims and processes in administrating the lottery.  No such promise with DFS.  None.  There is zero protection for the casual consumer. We are left to the mercy of whether or not these DFS companies are telling the truth and playing fairly.  You do NOT know that they are or are not.  You are running on blind faith.  Sorry, but that's not going to fly nor should it. For all we know, what you see on the sites could be fabricated.  There is no auditing requirement of any kind.  Way too risky to trust for a multi-billion dollar industry.  Of course regulation is needed.  DFS will die in most places without it.  So they better damned well agree to it if they want to stay in business.  Ultimately, they have no choice and its about time the needed oversight is finally begun.  

If appropriate regulation comes as a result of the NY AG's action, then I applaud it.

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