Jets Work out Dri Archer, Several Kickers

[Jet Nut]

And? What does that have to do with signing a guy no one else wants? Ridley and Powell are more than capable of being the RB #2. Archer isn't signing with the Jets.

Its has everything with you saying who will we cut to sign him.

And I could give a shlt who didn't want him.  No one wanted Unitas, Chrebet, countless others.  I go by what our FO likes not what some other FO likes

[CrazyCarl40]

Its has everything with you saying who will we cut to sign him.

And I could give a shlt who didn't want him.  No one wanted Unitas, Chrebet, countless others.  I go by what our FO likes not what some other FO likes

Enunwa is taking Stacy's spot. So. You still have to cut someone to add Archer. Who is not good. 

[johnnyjet]

Geno  is not good

[Jet Nut]

Enunwa is taking Stacy's spot. So. You still have to cut someone to add Archer. Who is not good. 

There are plenty of shltty, bottom of the roster guys who don't ever play.  I'd rather take a chance on someone I havent' seen as our return guy over a guy who just cashes a check. At least he has a chance of contributing.  If he does what he did before coming to us he's an upgrade.

[CrazyCarl40]

There are plenty of shltty, bottom of the roster guys who don't ever play.  I'd rather take a chance on someone I havent' seen as our return guy over a guy who just cashes a check. At least he has a chance of contributing.  If he does what he did before coming to us he's an upgrade.

Okay. Who? I'd like a name please. 

[Jet Nut]

Okay. Who? I'd like a name please. 

You wouldnt trade a useable return man for Ijalana?  I would, he never plays, no one seems to trust him and guys like him can be found on the unemployment line

[#27TheDominator]

You wouldnt trade a useable return man for Ijalana?  I would, he never plays, no one seems to trust him and guys like him can be found on the unemployment line

Isn't he the 3rd tackle?  I don't think it is a big deal to risk him, but it is easy to say they don't need him because Brick and Giacomini have been healthy, but the first time one stumbles there may be an issue.  Maybe they could use Qvale there, but I'm not so sure that all the other guys are not interior.  They do keep him inactive, but they have a bunch of guys they used everywhere in the preseason - but I don't think anybody trusts any of them.  Have to have some worry about using the guy from the unemployment line mid-season when he doesn't know the system or his teammates.

[Jet Nut]

Isn't he the 3rd tackle?  I don't think it is a big deal to risk him, but it is easy to say they don't need him because Brick and Giacomini have been healthy, but the first time one stumbles there may be an issue.  Maybe they could use Qvale there, but I'm not so sure that all the other guys are not interior.  They do keep him inactive, but they have a bunch of guys they used everywhere in the preseason - but I don't think anybody trusts any of them.  Have to have some worry about using the guy from the unemployment line mid-season when he doesn't know the system or his teammates.

I would rather protect a G given the injuries to that spot and the play.  Plus Gs can play C.  Don't think its that hard to find another Ijalana if we needed a T.  Would hope we could find a better one actually.  Nor do I think if cut anyone is running to sign Ijalana

[thshadow]

My guess is the guy they brought up to back up Mangold would get cut, now that Mangold is healthy - if they want to keep a return specialist.

Or maybe they replace Kenbrell with Enunwa, which allows them to replace Stacy with a KR guy...

[CrazyCarl40]

You wouldnt trade a useable return man for Ijalana?  I would, he never plays, no one seems to trust him and guys like him can be found on the unemployment line

Let me know when you find that useable return man who is more than just that and can add to more than just a few plays a game.

[Beerfish]

Let me know when you find that useable return man who is more than just that and can add to more than just a few plays a game.

Travis Benjamin

Darren Sproules

Jarvis Landry

Ted Ginn

Dexter Mccluster

Danny Amendola

Tavon Austin

Pacman Jones

Antonio Brown

Golden Tate

Julian Edelman

Cole Beasley

Emmanuel Sanders

[Jet Nut]

Let me know when you find that useable return man who is more than just that and can add to more than just a few plays a game.

Funny a few plays a game is more than Ijalana gives us.

And making it worse, if the rerturn wasn't fumbled away for a quick 6 points added to the Bills side we win the game thursday. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Archer stinks.  Pass.

[joewilly12]

Archer stinks.  Pass.

So does Smith,Stacey, or any other NY Jet returning kicks.

[CrazyCarl40]

Travis Benjamin

Darren Sproules

Jarvis Landry

Ted Ginn

Dexter Mccluster

Danny Amendola

Tavon Austin

Pacman Jones

Antonio Brown

Golden Tate

Julian Edelman

Cole Beasley

Emmanuel Sanders

Awesome. None of those guys are available. I think you've missed the point.

Funny a few plays a game is more than Ijalana gives us.

And making it worse, if the rerturn wasn't fumbled away for a quick 6 points added to the Bills side we win the game thursday. 

A back up tackle is more important than a kick returner. The way the NFL is now, just take the knee and start at the 20.

[Beerfish]

Awesome. None of those guys are available. I think you've missed the point.

A back up tackle is more important than a kick returner. The way the NFL is now, just take the knee and start at the 20.

Of course I missed the point.  You made a blanket one line response with zero additional explanation and then expected everyone to 'get it', pretty common on these forums though.  I'll give you my point unless you missed it, there are tons of players in this league that are good or better return guys and can play another position, we have to find one.  And there are guys who are at this time pure back ups but still can make big plays, ie Corderelle Patterson.

If you want to make your special teams a weapon instead of an inconvenience you can do it, the Jets just have not had the will.

[CrazyCarl40]

Of course I missed the point.  You made a blanket one line response with zero additional explanation and then expected everyone to 'get it', pretty common on these forums though.  I'll give you my point unless you missed it, there are tons of players in this league that are good or better return guys and can play another position, we have to find one.  And there are guys who are at this time pure back ups but still can make big plays, ie Corderelle Patterson.

If you want to make your special teams a weapon instead of an inconvenience you can do it, the Jets just have not had the will.

I agree the Jets should focus in the 2016 draft finding a RB or WR type that can both be effective on specials in the return game and add a component to the offense in some capacity.

My point is Dri Archer is not that guy and there isn't an unemployed dude on the street that is going to step up and be that guy.

[Jet Nut]

Awesome. None of those guys are available. I think you've missed the point.

A back up tackle is more important than a kick returner. The way the NFL is now, just take the knee and start at the 20.

Thats as wrong as it gets.  A player who will see the field, who can change the game is more important than a backup who never sees the field.  The take a knee and start at the 20 nonsense is out of control.  Teams return the ball enough, don't know where this nonsense started

[CrazyCarl40]

Thats as wrong as it gets.  A player who will see the field, who can change the game is more important than a backup who never sees the field.  The take a knee and start at the 20 nonsense is out of control.  Teams return the ball enough, don't know where this nonsense started

My opinion can't be wrong. So. Yeah. 

And it's not nonsense. When they moved kickoffs up, they basically said, returns are worthless. How many times have the Jets taken the ball out of the end zone and not even reached the 20? It's safer and the better play to take the touchback.  

[Jet Nut]

My opinion can't be wrong. So. Yeah. 

And it's not nonsense. When they moved kickoffs up, they basically said, returns are worthless. How many times have the Jets taken the ball out of the end zone and not even reached the 20? It's safer and the better play to take the touchback.  

They move kick offs up years ago.  we agree to disagree then.  

[AFJF]

He's been worked out by at least 5 teams already and is unemployed. He's not very big and obviously as a former third round pick you have to figure there is something teams don't like about him. Which player are you cutting for this guy to return a few kicks? He wouldn't see any offensive reps. 

Westhoff has referred to ST's coaches a few times as being obsolete due to lack of KOR. game 

[Jet Nut]

Westhoff has referred to ST's coaches a few times as being obsolete due to lack of KOR. game 

A refused importance importance of the KR game doesn't mean you can't win a game off a return.  Or a return that sets up a score.  Why wouldn't you want a weapon in waiting for a returnable kick, even if it's just a single opportunity per game over a backup OL who never plays.  We're not talking a backup QB, WR, RB type who may actually play 

[#27TheDominator]

Backup lineman are useless until Mangold gets hurt and you are trotting out Dakota Dozier and Wesley Johnson.

[AFJF]

A refused importance importance of the KR game doesn't mean you can't win a game off a return.  Or a return that sets up a score.  Why wouldn't you want a weapon in waiting for a returnable kick, even if it's just a single opportunity per game over a backup OL who never plays.  We're not talking a backup QB, WR, RB type who may actually play 

I would want one, but not if it was his only role.  Shouldn't be THAT hard to find a guy who can return kicks and get a few reps on offense as well.  I dunno, maybe it is.

[Jetster]

Bobby April is an idiot! Not because he used Stacey & Smith to return kicks but because he already knew that he really had NO ONE confidently CAPABLE of returning kicks who could get the ball past the 20 yard line & because he already KNOWS this you play really, really, conservative & take a F*CKING knee because only 3 things can happen, you MIGHT GET TO TO THE TWENTY MAYBE, but most likely you get to the 15, you get a penalty which sets you back on the freaking goaline, or you fumble the freaking ball! With the players we're rolling out there on kick returns the odds ARE NOT IN OUR FAVOR, also because our blocking on Kickoffs & punts has also sucked!

I'd love to see that stats on all of our Kickoffs that we actually returned. I bet it's pretty ugly & statistically, taking a knee & starting at the 20 is by far the safest approach. 

 

[#27TheDominator]

I would think that a player that was quick and reliable enough to return punts would be useful on offense.  The Jets desire for interchangeable parts and huge slot receivers negates that a bit.  A guy that interested me was Ace Sanders.  He never dropped many balls, but he is small and he ran pretty slowly at the combine.  He dropped to the 4th and was cut by the Jags this summer.  Presumably, the Jags are happy with Hurns, Robinson and Lee.  He was suspended by the league and presumably has drug issues.  Guess his life is not on track because I have not even heard much of him getting a try out.  His rotoworld blurb says "Small, slow and suspended is no way to last in the NFL."

[Jet Nut]

I would want one, but not if it was his only role.  Shouldn't be THAT hard to find a guy who can return kicks and get a few reps on offense as well.  I dunno, maybe it is.

If he were a scoring threat?  I think we all would like to have a guy who has more than one position but again, its a G who doesn't sniff the field

[#27TheDominator]

If he were a scoring threat?  I think we all would like to have a guy who has more than one position but again, its a G who doesn't sniff the field

Who is the tackle? 

[Jet Nut]

Who is the tackle? 

I was saying I would be willing to cut a Ijalana to get a return man who is a threat.  That we would get more from the position than a OL like Ijalana.  He's easily replaceable

 

[#27TheDominator]

I was saying I would be willing to cut a Ijalana to get a return man who is a threat.  That we would get more from the position than a OL like Ijalana.  He's easily replaceable

I know what you are saying.  My question is who is the 3rd tackle in your scenario?  Winters is starting at G.  Dozier has only played G/C this year.  Same with Johnson.  I guess Qvale has played everything.  I understand wanting to dump Ijalana, but they do need a 3rd tackle.  I'm not sure of the depth chart at T.  I was wondering what you thought.  It is easy to say cut this guy for a returner, but when Mangold went down, you saw what you get from the scrap heap.  FWIW, Kerley is much better than you guys think - he has better punt return numbers than guys like McCluster and Dri Archer over the past couple of years.  He has the stigma of the ton of fair catches taken in 2012, but since I think he has had less than McCluster (which is why I mentioned McCluster)  Owusu was doing very well with kick returns before his inevitable injury and Cromartie is as good at it as there is.  I'm not sure why somebody like Dri Archer is going to help. 

[Jet Nut]

I know what you are saying.  My question is who is the 3rd tackle in your scenario?  Winters is starting at G.  Dozier has only played G/C this year.  Same with Johnson.  I guess Qvale has played everything.  I understand wanting to dump Ijalana, but they do need a 3rd tackle.  I'm not sure of the depth chart at T.  I was wondering what you thought.  It is easy to say cut this guy for a returner, but when Mangold went down, you saw what you get from the scrap heap.  FWIW, Kerley is much better than you guys think - he has better punt return numbers than guys like McCluster and Dri Archer over the past couple of years.  He has the stigma of the ton of fair catches taken in 2012, but since I think he has had less than McCluster (which is why I mentioned McCluster)  Owusu was doing very well with kick returns before his inevitable injury and Cromartie is as good at it as there is.  I'm not sure why somebody like Dri Archer is going to help. 

For what its worth I'm with you on Kerley.  I think he gets too much a bad rap.  

I think there is enough versatility with the line and like you said for the quick in game help someone like Qvale would be pressed into service.  If someone was needed beyond that time you probably would find ljalana sitting right where you left him to be resigned.  I get that if the slight chance that he's picked up is risky but to me ljalana is the same as any other scrap heap player you would find if he were somehow signed.

I agree about Archer too.  I wasnt advocating him as much as the hypothetical, that if we needed a return guy or if a dynamic returner was available I think it would be worth a look.  Was told we couldnt sign one because there was no room on the roster and no one who could be cut.  That was the dynamic of the conversation.  If Hester were available apparently we couldnt sign him.  1 because we cant cut anyone, 2 because the return game is now unnecessary 

[CrazyCarl40]

For what its worth I'm with you on Kerley.  I think he gets too much a bad rap.  

I think there is enough versatility with the line and like you said for the quick in game help someone like Qvale would be pressed into service.  If someone was needed beyond that time you probably would find ljalana sitting right where you left him to be resigned.  I get that if the slight chance that he's picked up is risky but to me ljalana is the same as any other scrap heap player you would find if he were somehow signed.

I agree about Archer too.  I wasnt advocating him as much as the hypothetical, that if we needed a return guy or if a dynamic returner was available I think it would be worth a look.  Was told we couldnt sign one because there was no room on the roster and no one who could be cut.  That was the dynamic of the conversation.  If Hester were available apparently we couldnt sign him.  1 because we cant cut anyone, 2 because the return game is now unnecessary 

If there was a guy out there that was good enough to change games on KR and PR and could add a dynamic to the offense, obviously they could find room for him. But this hypothetical player doesn't exist in free agency right now. I wouldn't cut anyone else on the squad for Dri Archer was my point. It would obviously go on a case by case basis of the incoming player. 

[jamesr]

I'd love to see that stats on all of our Kickoffs that we actually returned. I bet it's pretty ugly & statistically, taking a knee & starting at the 20 is by far the safest approach. 

 

This year we rank 28th in avg. return yards with 21.2. 

Interestingly, do you know who's 32nd with only 16.8 yards per return? New England. We're also ahead of Cincinnati and Carolina (and Buffalo). I found that interesting, that three teams with a total of 1 loss between them are 3 of the 4 worst at returning kick offs.

And in case your wondering, the best team at kick return average is ... Detroit.

[#27TheDominator]

For what its worth I'm with you on Kerley.  I think he gets too much a bad rap.  

I think there is enough versatility with the line and like you said for the quick in game help someone like Qvale would be pressed into service.  If someone was needed beyond that time you probably would find ljalana sitting right where you left him to be resigned.  I get that if the slight chance that he's picked up is risky but to me ljalana is the same as any other scrap heap player you would find if he were somehow signed.

I agree about Archer too.  I wasnt advocating him as much as the hypothetical, that if we needed a return guy or if a dynamic returner was available I think it would be worth a look.  Was told we couldnt sign one because there was no room on the roster and no one who could be cut.  That was the dynamic of the conversation.  If Hester were available apparently we couldnt sign him.  1 because we cant cut anyone, 2 because the return game is now unnecessary 

Yeah.  No big disagreement here.  Just pinning down why Ijalana is low man on your totem pole.  Dozier was kept to backup at C and was so bad there they had to call up Johnson.  Maybe Ilalana would still be there if they cut him, but they are carrying a sh*tload of guys they seem to consider guards.  The guards and Mangold have been hurt which is probably a big part of the reason Ijalana has been inactive.  Ijalana has played both with the Colts and I guess Qvale played some T.  Dozier and Johnson were college tackles, but I think they have been nothing but inside with the Jets - and Johnson with the Steelers.  The other issue is that even if the guy replaces Iljalana on the roster, he still has to replace another player game-day active, which is different decision .

If there was a guy out there that was good enough to change games on KR and PR and could add a dynamic to the offense, obviously they could find room for him. But this hypothetical player doesn't exist in free agency right now. I wouldn't cut anyone else on the squad for Dri Archer was my point. It would obviously go on a case by case basis of the incoming player. 

Probably not.  Dri Archer is the type of guy many of us were hoping to get coming out.  He's failed miserably and if they signed him I wouldn't expect anything, but would give the benefit of the doubt for a change of scenery and all that. Funny thing is, a couple of guys that have been here recently kind of fit the bill perfectly.  Harvin can run a bit, play WR and handle returns while seemingly being versatile enough for Gailey to find him room.  McKnight was big enough that he can play 3rd downs picking up blitzes and split wide some.  I expected more from him in that role.  Poor bastard scored 2 receiving TDs in one game last year then blew out his Achilles in practice later in the week.  Hell even Josh Cribbs might have fit, though he was washed up and I doubt they would have liked him much at WR.  Oddly enough another Kent State product.

[Jet Nut]

Yeah.  No big disagreement here.  Just pinning down why Ijalana is low man on your totem pole.  Dozier was kept to backup at C and was so bad there they had to call up Johnson.  Maybe Ilalana would still be there, but they are carrying a sh*tload of guys they seem to consider guards.  The guards and Mangold have been hurt which is probably a big part of the reason Ijalana has been inactive.  The other issue is that even if the guy replaces Iljalana on the roster, he still has to replace another player game-day active, which is another decision for .

Probably not.  Dri Archer is the type of guy many of us were hoping to get coming out.  He's failed miserably and if they signed him I wouldn't expect anything, but would give the benefit of the doubt for a change of scenery and all that. Funny thing is, a couple of guys that have been here recently kind of fit the bill perfectly.  Harvin can run a bit, play WR and handle returns while seemingly being versatile enough for Gailey to find him room.  McKnight was big enough that he can play 3rd downs picking up blitzes and split wide some.  I expected more from him in that role.  Poor bastard scored 2 receiving TDs in one game last year then blew out his Achilles in practice later in the week.  Hell even Josh Cribbs might have fit, though he was washed up and I doubt they would have liked him much at WR.  Oddly enough another Kent State product.

you're right I picked Ijalana because I thought we were more concerned with depth at G.  Put that in an early post.