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Jets still pretenders, not contenders


Shadetree
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Perhaps, but we know the Jets aren't good enough to get there or win it.

Injuries, rookie coaching, unproven post-season QB, no victories over teams with a winning record. it's all there on paper.

SAR I

Good thing that this isn't paper football.

Let's get to the playoffs first before getting into this discussion though.

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The Jets are playing meaningful games in December for the first time in a few years. The glass is half full friends. Come on!

+1.

After the 4-1 start I was hoping for something more and the subsequent games were sobering but this team is still competitive and fighting for the playoffs in December. Let's beat the Gints and move on from there.

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Perhaps, but we know the Jets aren't good enough to get there or win it.

Injuries, rookie coaching, unproven post-season QB, no victories over teams with a winning record. it's all there on paper.

SAR I

Our record against teams with a winning record is 0-1. Hardly something to be ashamed of. 

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We played the Texans two weeks ago and they killed us.

SAR I

I was referring to teams who had winning records at the time we played.

As pointed out above, Colts now have a winning record, so if the Houston game counts, so does the Indy game. 

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well, the Jets already beat the colts in Indy so thats a very winable rnd 1 game.

if cincy is up next, ur putting your money on Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis?  These guys are mush come playoff time.

if the jets get in and draw these 2 teams, its very plausable they get to the championship game.

I don't understand why you are even talking playoffs.  We are a 4-12 team that found a serviceable quarterback and a promising head coach and with an easy schedule have eked out a .500 caliber performance.

This isn't the 2000 Herman Edwards Jets making the playoffs with the core of the 1998 Parcells Jets still intact.  This isn't the 2008 Eric Mangini Jets sitting at 8-5 in December with a Hall Of Fame quarterback under center.  This isn't the relaxed 2009 Rex Ryan Jets who sat at 8-5 the year before with a tyrannical head coach.  We are the pathetic 4-12 John Idzik Jets slapped together with some savvy veteran free agents who are outperforming expectations.  We should be proud of them.  We shouldn't be talking about them in the context of "pretenders".  We are "rebuilding".

SAR I

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I'm in pessimistic, wait-until-week-17, mode with this team. The Miami win was nice, but I didn't see anything that  removed the doubts the Oak, Buff, and Hou losses showed me. 

This is a good team with fatal flaws. No pass rush, an "eh" QB, and an "eh" O-line does not translate to being a contender. 

I would like to see improvement and a nice run for the WC, but c'mon, you really think this team is capable of 10-6? I don't. Even if they pull that out of their ass and make the playoffs, they'll be exposed for those fatal flaws.

9-7 and missing the playoffs would be optimistic. 8-8 is realistic. 

5 games left and I'm feeling optimistic after frying Fish........Giants, Titans, Cowboys,  Pats, Bills.  

We have some momentum. We can win 3-4 of those (we should beat 3 or 4) and we're in but it could come down to a must win vs. Bills.  Wow that would be some game.   

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I AM proud of them, SAR. As an observer in August, we would, for the most part, say,"6-5? Sign me up!" I love Fitz, warts and all. I'm a big big fan a both Mac and Bowles, too.

I call them pretenders cuz they're in the playoff hunt and they're doing NOTHING to show me they are capable of more than just getting to the dance. I'm sorry, but that pisses me off. I don't think we should be happy with an improved 8-8 record based on last years cluster fvck. I'm sick if when we ARE good enough to get to the dance, we're not good enough to go all the way. There have been plenty of WC teams in the SB. We won't be one of them even if we do get in. 

..and NOT getting in? After 4-1 and an outstanding almost-there effort against the Pats? Ugh. WTF!?!?

Im sorry....maybe it's 6-one-half-dozen-or the other but  it reeks of "pretender" more than "rebuild" to me. 

 

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I'm in pessimistic, wait-until-week-17, mode with this team. The Miami win was nice, but I didn't see anything that  removed the doubts the Oak, Buff, and Hou losses showed me. 

This is a good team with fatal flaws. No pass rush, an "eh" QB, and an "eh" O-line does not translate to being a contender. 

I would like to see improvement and a nice run for the WC, but c'mon, you really think this team is capable of 10-6? I don't. Even if they pull that out of their ass and make the playoffs, they'll be exposed for those fatal flaws.

9-7 and missing the playoffs would be optimistic. 8-8 is realistic. 

Houston KC and Pittsburgh are ehh teams too.  The good teams win their division.  The wildcard, with few exceptions, is for ehh teams. 

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The Jets win a nice home game against a hated rival reviving their playoff hopes in a very floored conference and the hot thread is "we are pretenders."  The only pretenders are these "fans."

c'mon, man ..it's a message board discussion. You want a circle jerk after every win? 

I agree it's a bit pessimistic, but the point is that, even if we secure a WC spot, we are lacking in some key areas: we have fatal flaws.

We have no pass rush, sub par OLine play, and an eh QB. Successful WC teams of the past had most, or all, of these elements. 

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c'mon, man ..it's a message board discussion. You want a circle jerk after every win? 

I agree it's a bit pessimistic, but the point is that, even if we secure a WC spot, we are lacking in some key areas: we have fatal flaws.

We have no pass rush, sub par OLine play, and an eh QB. Successful WC teams of the past had most, or all, of these elements. 

I think we have the talent and scheme to rush the QB, the ability to have better OL play, and a QB who can occasionally elevate his play.  The Giants always seemed to have OL/QB/defensive/offensive play-calling issues heading into the postseason the 2 years they won Super Bowls.  Once they hit the postseason they somehow ratcheted up their play in all 3 of those phases. 

Joe Flacco once had an 11 TD, 0 INT postseason too.  Keep that in mind.  Granted, Flacco has a higher ceiling than Fitz because he can launch the rock, but he's the very definition of an "eh" QB who still had a magical postseason. 

Not saying it's probable or even possible these elements could all come together for us at once in the fairly unlikely event we make the postseason.  But there's a chance.

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Even if we don't go far (IF we make the play offs) it will still be a good thing on various fronts. Players get the experience of playing post-season football, so they don't act surprised / happy to be there when we're a better team; players start to BELIEVE they can do it, and that the coaches are on the right track, but it also leaves them HUNGRY to improve.

Playing for a perennial loser demoralises players, but seeing that the team could be true contenders will give them hope and confidence.

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Houston KC and Pittsburgh are ehh teams too.  The good teams win their division.  The wildcard, with few exceptions, is for ehh teams. 

Maybe record wise they are but I would take Pittsburgh out of that category.   They aren't as good as NE, Cincy or Denver but they are dangerous on the offensive side and I'm sure they are a scary opponent for those 3..

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Maybe record wise they are but I would take Pittsburgh out of that category.   They aren't as good as NE, Cincy or Denver but they are dangerous on the offensive side and I'm sure they are a scary opponent for those 3..

Steelers have Ben.  As long as he's healthy, they always have a chance.  Actually, he's pretty awesome with a broken nose or foot, too.  Guy is a tank who can flat out fling it.

They also have a fantastic receiving corps with Brown and Martavis Bryant.  The latter who was not good enough for Idiotzik to pick.  What a moron.

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wouldn't it be fun if the Jets got hot and went on a 4 game win streak heading into the NE game?    maybe bowles is a december / january coach....we can always hope.   

The Jets haven't won 4 games in a row since 2010.

The debacle at Houston is still only a week old.

SAR I

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The Jets haven't won 4 games in a row since 2010.

The debacle at Houston is still only a week old.

SAR I

The Jets offense, while not proficient in the game, put up 17 points? I think Houston had held its three other recent opponents all under ten points, including the Bengals who only scored 6. It would have been nice to see the defense step up and shut down TJ  Yates and the wildcat and take this game against the Texans.

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The Jets offense, while not proficient in the game, put up 17 points? I think Houston had held its three other recent opponents all under ten points, including the Bengals who only scored 6. It would have been nice to see the defense step up and shut down TJ  Yates and the wildcat and take this game against the Texans.

Yes to all.

Point being, the Jets have yet to have a signature win against a team with a winning record and until they do we can't trust them to be more than this up-and-down-up-and-down .500 caliber club.

Beating the Giants soundly would go a long way to restoring faith.  Because of the losses to the Bills and Titans, the only way into the playoffs is to beat 3 decent teams like New England, Buffalo, and New York. 

SAR I

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I AM proud of them, SAR. As an observer in August, we would, for the most part, say,"6-5? Sign me up!" I love Fitz, warts and all. I'm a big big fan a both Mac and Bowles, too.

I call them pretenders cuz they're in the playoff hunt and they're doing NOTHING to show me they are capable of more than just getting to the dance. I'm sorry, but that pisses me off. I don't think we should be happy with an improved 8-8 record based on last years cluster fvck. I'm sick if when we ARE good enough to get to the dance, we're not good enough to go all the way. There have been plenty of WC teams in the SB. We won't be one of them even if we do get in. 

..and NOT getting in? After 4-1 and an outstanding almost-there effort against the Pats? Ugh. WTF!?!?

Im sorry....maybe it's 6-one-half-dozen-or the other but  it reeks of "pretender" more than "rebuild" to me. 

 

You have strange interpretations for "pretender" and "rebuilding" to reach this bizarre sense of anger that we aren't super bowl-bound half a season after a 4-12 season.

If we're good enough to get to the super bowl then we aren't rebuilding, we would be rebuilt. There is no higher place to which a team could build.

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You have strange interpretations for "pretender" and "rebuilding" to reach this bizarre sense of anger that we aren't super bowl-bound half a season after a 4-12 season.

If we're good enough to get to the super bowl then we aren't rebuilding, we would be rebuilt. There is no higher place to which a team could build.

Agreed.

The very definition of "done with the rebuild" is when you win your division or have back-to-back winning seasons.  That's an indicator that you have staying power which is the point of rebuilding to begin with.

SAR I

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Yes to all.

Point being, the Jets have yet to have a signature win against a team with a winning record and until they do we can't trust them to be more than this up-and-down-up-and-down .500 caliber club.

Beating the Giants soundly would go a long way to restoring faith.  Because of the losses to the Bills and Titans, the only way into the playoffs is to beat 3 decent teams like New England, Buffalo, and New York. 

SAR I

excellent point about needing a signature win. And we DO need to beat those three teams to, hopefully, secure a spot in the dance. 

Fatal flaws, man, fatal flaws....

-No QB that is capable of winning 3 road playoff games.

-No pass rush. If a miracle playoff berth happens, do we have a Pass rush that's gonna turn into the SB 42 Giants? The 2000 something Ravens? In August I thought yes. Now? Eh, not really. I don't trust them.

- our OLine is playing pretty bad against good teams. brick sux and gacomini sux. Don't trust them either.

No QB, no pass rush, no quality play from OLine. Those are 3 really really hard flaws to overcome.  

Of all these flaws, the ferocious D Line, that I thought might be the best the league has ever seen, never coming to fruition pains me the most. They haven't enforced their will on teams and they aren't getting help from the edges. Just goes to prove it's the ultimate TEAM sport.

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You have strange interpretations for "pretender" and "rebuilding" to reach this bizarre sense of anger that we aren't super bowl-bound half a season after a 4-12 season.

If we're good enough to get to the super bowl then we aren't rebuilding, we would be rebuilt. There is no higher place to which a team could build.

agreed..ihave strange interpretations. It is what it is and I own it. 

Ya know when it started? I was so excited to give the Bills a beat down at home. It was the moment we would begin our playoff push. I was so excitedThat I began the battle cry with all my friends and neighbors. I ran up and down the block, banging on doors..."winners are contenders, losers are pretenders!!! C'mon down and watch Rex get a beat down!! I have wings and beer!"

...then we got our ass beat.

....then we got our ass beat by the Texans.

.....now I watch the games alone with my pug.

im angry. I'm a pessimist. I'm a jets fan. 

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Maybe record wise they are but I would take Pittsburgh out of that category.   They aren't as good as NE, Cincy or Denver but they are dangerous on the offensive side and I'm sure they are a scary opponent for those 3..

I agree Pitt is the best of the bunch but they have big flaws too covering the pass. 

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