bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The thread poses the question, "are we witnessing the decline of the great Darelle Revis." I believe we are. Unfortunately, some people take that to mean that he's not good, or is a waste, or whatever, instead of what the question suggests, which is if he is the type of player he used to be. Yeah, he is only human so a decline is only to be expected; he seems to be more about technique than raw athleticism, so he should be able to hold on to his edge longer. The other thing to consider is that he was most effective under Ryan when playing exclusively man-to-man; now he is playing zone. It is also a new defense for the whole team; we don't always know when he is supposed to be man-to-man or if he was supposed to be zone and if someone (including him) blew a coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Eyeballs say no. Stats say no. I guess the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 being in the right spot on a miscommunication between Brady and Gronk makes a player elite now? To be fair, that was more of a QB ducking/throwing too quickly because of a rush than miscommunication. Also, stats get padded each way all of the time; how many ints does a QB get when the ball bounces out of a WRs hands? What if the receiver pushes off and it doesn't get called? Also, if it was Kyle Wilson, his back would have been to Gronk and it would have hit him in the head. Being elite includes watch the QB, knowing routes, and being in position when the QB has to throw too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 To be fair, that was more of a QB ducking/throwing too quickly because of a rush than miscommunication. Also, stats get padded each way all of the time; how many ints does a QB get when the ball bounces out of a WRs hands? What if the receiver pushes off and it doesn't get called? Also, if it was Kyle Wilson, his back would have been to Gronk and it would have hit him in the head. Being elite includes watch the QB, knowing routes, and being in position when the QB has to throw too quickly. Again, I wasn't knocking Revis for the play, just responding to the fact that that play made him elite. However, watching the QB doesn't make you elite, it makes you adequate, which Kyle Wilson was not. Which is why he is a reserve CB for the 31st ranked defense in YPG and and 32nd in PPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 And the Jets are paying "just a good" CB $16MM per year. Based on performance, Revis could be the most overpaid player in the NFL. That's Suh and it's not even close.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 So, giving up a TD to Dez Bryant from Kellen Moore and being in the right spot on a miscommunication between Brady and Gronk makes a player elite now? I imagine if those are the criterion, then we could find many more elite players. Neither of these things are knocks on him either, but I stand by the fact that Revis is still a very good CB, but no longer elite or the guy he was. What's elite to you? Like the top 4-5 guys? Because he's that for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What's elite to you? Like the top 4-5 guys? Because he's that for sure. Here we go again... To me, elite is what Revis was in 2009 and shortly after. A guy you could count on each week to match up with the #1 WR and essentially take him out of the game. To me, Revis isn't that guy anymore. It has nothing to do with being in the top 4-5 guys. It's conceivable that at any time, there may be no elite CBs in the game. Also, I don't have a photographic memory, but I'm pretty surprised to see that he's only being credited with allowing 3 TDs this year. I feel like that number significantly more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Here we go again... To me, elite is what Revis was in 2009 and shortly after. A guy you could count on each week to match up with the #1 WR and essentially take him out of the game. To me, Revis isn't that guy anymore. It has nothing to do with being in the top 4-5 guys. It's conceivable that at any time, there may be no elite CBs in the game. Also, I don't have a photographic memory, but I'm pretty surprised to see that he's only being credited with allowing 3 TDs this year. I feel like that number significantly more than that. Garcon, Hopkins, and Bryant got him off the top of my head for TDs. I guess we just see being elite differently. Him still being at the top of the league at the position, to me, makes him elite.I guess it could be construed as sliding the scale a bit, but he's been one of the reasons the Jets have turned it around so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Again, I wasn't knocking Revis for the play, just responding to the fact that that play made him elite. However, watching the QB doesn't make you elite, it makes you adequate, which Kyle Wilson was not. Which is why he is a reserve CB for the 31st ranked defense in YPG and and 32nd in PPG. Hmm; not sure watching the QB while covering a player, adjusting and getting the INT make a CB adequate. Wasn't arguing with the premise of whether or not Revis maybe on the downside of his career, but was arguing with you cherry picking a quality play and calling it luck, miscommunication, or adequate. My old boss once said, the better prepared you are, the 'luckier you get'. Another said 'luck seems to be attracted to good'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hmm; not sure watching the QB while covering a player, adjusting and getting the INT make a CB adequate. Wasn't arguing with the premise of whether or not Revis maybe on the downside of his career, but was arguing with you cherry picking a quality play and calling it luck, miscommunication, or adequate. My old boss once said, the better prepared you are, the 'luckier you get'. Another said 'luck seems to be attracted to good'. I don't disagree with what you say here. But, lets do this again, because seemingly it isn't getting through. I disagree with the assertion that the specific interception he made against the Patriots is evidence that he is an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't disagree with what you say here. But, lets do this again, because seemingly it isn't getting through. I disagree with the assertion that the specific interception he made against the Patriots is evidence that he is an elite player. True, but it is a datapoint in the discussion. It certainly doesn't make him average either. It isn't like Brady throws picks all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Garcon, Hopkins, and Bryant got him off the top of my head for TDs. I guess we just see being elite differently. Him still being at the top of the league at the position, to me, makes him elite.I guess it could be construed as sliding the scale a bit, but he's been one of the reasons the Jets have turned it around so quickly. He's a good player for us, but stability at the QB position and Brandon Marshall/Eric Decker are the biggest reasons IMO. We lead the league in passes allowed over 20 yards and are right in the middle of the league in pass yards per game. In other words, I think stabilizing and improving our offense was the biggest reason for this season's success, not a DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 True, but it is a datapoint in the discussion. It certainly doesn't make him average either. It isn't like Brady throws picks all of the time. And anyone who has even a poor understanding of stats/data knows the dangers of drawing conclusions off of a single data point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 He's a good player for us, but stability at the QB position and Brandon Marshall/Eric Decker are the biggest reasons IMO. We lead the league in passes allowed over 20 yards and are right in the middle of the league in pass yards per game. In other words, I think stabilizing and improving our offense was the biggest reason for this season's success, not a DB. That's why I said one of and not THE. The reason the Jets allow so many big plays is because Cro and Skrine are vastly overrated and the blitz really opens up those one on ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 And anyone who has even a poor understanding of stats/data knows the dangers of drawing conclusions off of a single data point. True again, but I didn't pick the data point; also there is a warning to those using statistics to not just dismiss a data point (because it was miscommunication); throwing out 'explainable' data points are as bad as extrapolating on a single one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 True again, but I didn't pick the data point; also there is a warning to those using statistics to not just dismiss a data point (because it was miscommunication); throwing out 'explainable' data points are as bad as extrapolating on a single one I did not throw out a data point. I said that one data point was not proof that a player was elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It is both possible to be declining and still be elite. That is true for Revis. We were spoiled by Revis in 2009. That might have been the best season EVER for any corner in NFL history, considering that the rule changes have made it more difficult to play the corner position than ever before. Of course Revis can never live up to that again. But that's not the standard for elite. Elite means you're at the top of your craft, usually joined by maybe a handful of other players at your position. At least that is how I would define elite. Thus, Revis qualifies, because he is still one of the top 3-5 corners in the NFL, if not top 2. If 2009 Revis is your only standard for elite corner play, then there hasn't been an elite corner since 2009 Revis. Because no one has done what he did that year before or since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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