Rich Gannon turns out to be a really good comp for Fitz

[Doggin94it]

Was trying to think about other QBs with a similar profile as Fitz - extensive history as a backup/spot starter/mediocre starter, potential late career resurgence, with some rushing ability as well - and the only one that really kept coming to mind was Rich Gannon.  Went back and looked at the numbers, and they really do compare.

Here are the stats for Fitz's career prior to getting to NY (9 years) and Gannon's career prior to reaching Oakland (11 years, but he basically didn't play at all his first 3 - only made 7 appearances, with 9 completions on 21 attempts in those games):

Ryan Fitzpatrick                     Rich Gannon

96 Games Played                 83 Games Played

1,752 Comp                          1,000 Comp

2,911 Att                               1,758 Att

60% compl.                           57% compl

19,273 yds                            11,158

6.62 YPA                               6.34 YPA

11.0 YPC                              11.16 YPC

123 TD                                  66TD

1TD/23.66 Att                        1TD/26.63 Att

101 INT                                  54 INT

1INT/28.82ATT                      1INT/32.56 ATT

1.22TD/INT                            1.22TD/INT

11 RTD, 19F, 6FL                  10RTD, 35F, 10FL

Gannon got to Oakland for his age 34 season; Fitz is now 33.  And the numbers through 12 games in NY v. Gannon's first 12 in Oakland:

Ryan Fitzpatrick                     Rich Gannon

246 Comp                              228 Comp

409 Att                                   371 Att

60.1% compl.                         61.45% compl

2,866 yds                               2,836

7.01 YPA                                7.64 YPA

11.65 YPC                             12.43 YPC

22 TD                                    18TD

1TD/18.59 Att                        1TD/20.61 Att

11 INT                                    10 INT

1INT/37.18ATT                      1INT/37.1 ATT

2TD/INT                                 1.8TD/INT

2 RTD, 2F, 0FL                      2RTD, 8F, 7FL

Again, these numbers are eerily similar; close to identical.

I'm not saying Fitzpatrick's late career will resemble Gannon's; Gannon made himself into an MVP candidate - and was the 2002 MVP - and I don't think Fitz's transformation will be anything near that extreme.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility that Fitz will be a legitimate top-50% starting QB for the next several years, with upside to be more.  Would be something to see

 

[Gas2No99]

Called that back on Nov.19th in the "Fitz last 16 -  interesting" Thread

 

"The Jets' best chance for a championship is to land a SOLID vet QB with plenty of experience under his belt to complement a well-rounded team. I may be in the minority, but I prefer the Rich Gannon on the Raiders, Brad Johnson on TB, Dilfer in Balt, Vinny in '98, Chris Chandler in ATL, etc. route. Because UNLESS we are picking top 3 in the draft w/that every 15 years prospect QB sitting there, I see no other superior alternative. Experience is what matters for a QB to succeed in this league, talent helps. JMO."

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

[Jet Fan RI]

How about running the numbers on Jim Plunkett instead? I would think he would be a much closer match to Fitz, with both of them being journeymen over about a decade before coming to the team where they had success. What excites me is the fact that Plunkett, once he wound up on the Raiders, won them 2 super bowls. Can Fitz do the same for the Jets? Why not?

[Maxman]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

He is having one of the best years a Jets QB has had. Yes the bar is pretty low. But still, his numbers have a chance to break Jets records.

Plus the comparison to Gannon is a good one right now. So the thread isn't nonsense. 

If you don't have anything to add, don't add anything.

[Jet9]

The arguments about the Jets schedule are spot on. They really should have chosen a tougher schedule. 

[j4jets]

Let's make a few things clear first.

Fitz has played better than I expected.

He also has rebounded very well after a few really bad outings. 

Marshall bails him out several times a game simply with his size. 

Now the obvious: One of the easiest schedule in the league. That's a fact. And another fact is, in most of the games we have played, the opposing Ds have had several key injuries to LBs and/or DBs. That, or they have had one of the worst Ds outright. I'm not gonna go game by game but I remember not having to face a full strength D more than once in the first five or 6 games and that continued on. Similarly, Giants have one of the worst Ds in the league right now. 

Theres a reason why Fitz has had a good year statistically and it's not because he's transforming into Rich Gannon. Having said that, I do hope I'm wrong and Fitz has really turned the corners to be a top 10 QB going forward. I love his competitive nature and the fact that he's willing to run when there's nothing there. 

[shevys]

How about running the numbers on Jim Plunkett instead? I would think he would be a much closer match to Fitz, with both of them being journeymen over about a decade before coming to the team where they had success. What excites me is the fact that Plunkett, once he wound up on the Raiders, won them 2 super bowls. Can Fitz do the same for the Jets? Why not?

Plunkett, despite his journeyman status, was a former #1 draft pick. Not saying Fitz can't win us a Super Bowl, but Plunkett was a better QB with higher upside. 

[j4jets]

Plunkett, despite his journeyman status, was a former #1 draft pick. Not saying Fitz can't win us a Super Bowl, but Plunkett was a better QB with higher upside. 

Fitzpatrick raped the Bills with a $60mil contract. Does that count?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

I think the experience factor and a reason for the divide on Fitzpatrick's performance is the impact of three and outs on the eye test, his QBR and other stats are good but watching games you feel those three and out drives, especially with the Jets questionable special teams play... 

Jets have had 153 drives on offense with 42 "Three-and-Out" drives, only the Bills have a worse percentage 

I think we can all agree that a three-and-out is much better than a turnover (Geno/Mark should study this) - and that is where the experience factor is helping Fitzpatrick's stats this year, he is rolling with the punches and taking the high percentage plays, sometimes boring but no anger management needed

The difference is the great QB's have another gear (faster/better) when the game is on the line, Fitz has been mostly the opposite his entire career until last Sunday when we saw a spark, let's hope that continues to develop

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Also agree Gannon could be a good comparison, similar struggles until his 4th team and he had a great 4-5 year run with the Raiders, I would prefer a 10-15 year franchise QB but would sign up for that great 4-5 year run if Fitz leads the Jets to the playoffs this year.

That is where the comparison should end since I do not wish the tuck rule and a 5 interception super bowl loss to your former HC on anyone, especially Fitz and the Jets

 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

I would not put the loss to the Bills on Fitzpatrick. He played decently (not great), with one interception that was entirely due to Marshall being unable to secure the ball and tipping it to the defender on a short field. The Bills beat the Jets due primarily to D. Smith's horrible fumble that cost six (special teams once again f'ing up) and difficulty stopping LeSean McCoy. I also question some of the play calls in the fourth on offense. Short passes that were low probability to gain enough yardage for a first, relying on YAC in the red zone. The Jets played a sloppy game overall.

[LIJetsFan]

Let's make a few things clear first.

Fitz has played better than I expected.

He also has rebounded very well after a few really bad outings. 

Marshall bails him out several times a game simply with his size. 

Now the obvious: One of the easiest schedule in the league. That's a fact. And another fact is, in most of the games we have played, the opposing Ds have had several key injuries to LBs and/or DBs. That, or they have had one of the worst Ds outright. I'm not gonna go game by game but I remember not having to face a full strength D more than once in the first five or 6 games and that continued on. Similarly, Giants have one of the worst Ds in the league right now. 

Theres a reason why Fitz has had a good year statistically and it's not because he's transforming into Rich Gannon. Having said that, I do hope I'm wrong and Fitz has really turned the corners to be a top 10 QB going forward. I love his competitive nature and the fact that he's willing to run when there's nothing there. 

I haven't done the research but isn't it possible that the Raiders had a weak schedule and were playing against banged up defences that year too?  I just don't understand why so many Jets fans are so quick to try to put our 2015 accomplishments into the poorest light possible. You gotta ask yourself, why were the Raiders starting a jag (Gannon) that year?   Before you dump on the Jets you should at least do your homework.  

[Villain The Foe]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

I agree, but I'll also have to atleast give the guy the rest of the season as well. 

The comparison to Gannon is cool, at the moment, but Gannon did ALOT that year for that team. If Fitz gets through these last 4 games, makes a statement against the Pats and the Bills then do some damage in the playoffs then I can see the comparison. 

Right now however, is just "stats" that Fitz accumulated against teams that arent good. And though we dont pick our schedule, the schedule is what it is. 

Its one thing to break Jets records, its a shame that they've stood so long when the league has been a passing league for more than a decade, if Fitz can get to the playoffs and play playoff teams and produce wins then my tune on him will change for sure. 

I think that the fanbase has been so thirsty for success that we're putting the cart before the horse just a bit. I've done it too. We can make obvious comments like how we dont pick our schedule, but that doesnt mean that we disregard it either. We're 7-5 playing a very easy schedule. 

Its a winning record, but not an impressive one. So I think you have a point here. 

[afosomf]

I agree, but I'll also have to atleast give the guy the rest of the season as well. 

The comparison to Gannon is cool, at the moment, but Gannon did ALOT that year for that team. If Fitz gets through these last 4 games, makes a statement against the Pats and the Bills then do some damage in the playoffs then I can see the comparison. 

Right now however, is just "stats" that Fitz accumulated against teams that arent good. And though we dont pick our schedule, the schedule is what it is. 

Its one thing to break Jets records, its a shame that they've stood so long when the league has been a passing league for more than a decade, if Fitz can get to the playoffs and play playoff teams and produce wins then my tune on him will change for sure. 

I think that the fanbase has been so thirsty for success that we're putting the cart before the horse. People can stake claim and make comments on "How we should have picked a tougher schedule" disregarding the fact that we're only 7-5 WITH this schedule. 

Its a winning record, but not an impressive one. So I think you have a point here. 

jets should give Fitzy another $60m cries the senile lol

[Villain The Foe]

jets should give Fitzy another $60m cries the senile lol

 Many Jets fans at this time probably feel this way. I agree that you can only play the schedule given, I'll also agree that he's won more games that he's ever won prior. But with this I will have to also acknowledge the level of competition and the teams we've lost to.

There is no team on this schedule that we can even look to and feel like the Jets can most definitely win just based on the types of teams we've lost to. If the Jets were to beat the Titans today I wouldnt be surprised, but if they lost I wouldnt be surprised either. Its literally that type of season so far. 

Fitz has played like Fitz, which when accompanied with guys like Marshall and Decker has been a pretty solid offense. The offense gets credit for that. But with that said, Marshall and Decker should for sure get a share of the credit on the success here. 

If Devin Smith can become a consistent player, Fitz could very well have the single best season of any Jets QB in history, but it will be with the fact of having WR's having the best season since the late 80's early 90's as well. This is what happens when you have a legit #1 WR and a #2 WR. It helps. 

 

[slats]

Plunkett, despite his journeyman status, was a former #1 draft pick. Not saying Fitz can't win us a Super Bowl, but Plunkett was a better QB with higher upside. 

Exactly. Plunkett was Testederde's comp, a guy with all the physical tools who hadn't gotten it done yet. Gannon is the best case scenario for what Fitz can be, a guy who uses his smarts and overachieves. 

[afosomf]

Exactly. Plunkett was Testederde's comp, a guy with all the physical tools who hadn't gotten it done yet. Gannon is the best case scenario for what Fitz can be, a guy who uses his smarts and overachieves. 

Hard to compare a QB who is playing in Pussified era like Fitz  vs Gannon who played in an era closer to real football. 

[Gas2No99]

I think the experience factor and a reason for the divide on Fitzpatrick's performance is the impact of three and outs on the eye test, his QBR and other stats are good but watching games you feel those three and out drives, especially with the Jets questionable special teams play... 

Jets have had 153 drives on offense with 42 "Three-and-Out" drives, only the Bills have a worse percentage 

I think we can all agree that a three-and-out is much better than a turnover (Geno/Mark should study this) - and that is where the experience factor is helping Fitzpatrick's stats this year, he is rolling with the punches and taking the high percentage plays, sometimes boring but no anger management needed

The difference is the great QB's have another gear (faster/better) when the game is on the line, Fitz has been mostly the opposite his entire career until last Sunday when we saw a spark, let's hope that continues to develop

 

very well stated and put. How I feel in a nutshell, but more eloquently articulated than I could ever attempt. Fitzy won't DAZZLE you and he's a Journeyman QB, but CONSIDERING HOW PUTRID OUR QB PLAY HAS BEEN IN THE LAST 7 SEASONS, #14 is playing APTLY and won't cause you to Chuck the TV due to INCREDIBLY STUPID DECISION MAKING in playing the position; Jets historically have a low bar set for QBs, so YES, Fitzpatrick is avg. AT BEST BY NFL STANDARDS, but he's extraordinary in the same Geary's by Jets QB historical. Standards 

[slats]

Hard to compare a QB who is playing in Pussified era like Fitz  vs Gannon who played in an era closer to real football. 

C'mon, it was only 10-15 years ago. It's not like Gannon wore a leather helmet. 

And like I said, it's a best case scenario comparison. I'm not sold yet. 

[afosomf]

C'mon, it was only 10-15 years ago. It's not like Gannon wore a leather helmet. 

And like I said, it's a best case scenario comparison. I'm not sold yet. 

The rules are vastly different, Cannot breath on a QB these days.  When Gannon played QBs were allowed to be hit low, hit high and also well after the throw. It wasnt that long ago, but a pussy named Brady changed football forever

[BowlesMovement]

The anti-Fitz crowd acts like there are better QB's just growing on trees. I would love to hear from Johnny, Cant Wait, Villan, Slatz, Sperm, and all the other Fitz haters, who is ATTAINABLE, that is a sure thing to be better than Fitz??

I really like Glennon, but I don't know he is attainable, and I also don't know he is even better than Fitz this year. The other FA QB's are journeymen, probably not close to Fitz, and for all the talk of Brees, Fitz has been statistically better, and is younger and a fraction of the price. 

The plan has to be to develop a QB, whether that is Petty, Petty and a draft pick, Petty and an attainable young player, etc. 

But this notion that Fitz CANNOT be the starting QB next year is just asinine. It acts like there are better options, and there very likely are not.

[JohnnyLV]

He is having one of the best years a Jets QB has had. Yes the bar is pretty low. But still, his numbers have a chance to break Jets records.

Plus the comparison to Gannon is a good one right now. So the thread isn't nonsense. 

If you don't have anything to add, don't add anything.

Whatever. I will just let everyone else embrace mediocrity. I won't do that, but the subject is old and the Fitz crowd is much more vocal in their OPINION. It's like you have a AMC Pacer and someone gives you a Yugo. To the person getting the Yugo they are all happy because it is one of the best cars they have ever had. But anyone with a brain that can look at the situation objectively knows that you still just have a crappy car.

[BowlesMovement]

Whatever. I will just let everyone else embrace mediocrity. I won't do that, but the subject is old and the Fitz crowd is much more vocal in their OPINION. It's like you have a AMC Pacer and someone gives you a Yugo. To the person getting the Yugo they are all happy because it is one of the best cars they have ever had. But anyone with a brain that can look at the situation objectively knows that you still just have a crappy car.

Nobody is embracing mediocrity, people are embracing the best CURRENT option available. You seem to want to bitch and complain about something the Jets cannot change. Yeah, I want Aaron Rodgers or Brady too, but guess what?? THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE.

And if 22TD's and 11int's is mediocre, I would love to see your definition of poor? Oh, thats right, you are clamoring for Geno? Holy hell, you cannot make this crap up.

[Savage69]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

We were coming off a 4-12 season in 2007 so in 2008 with Brady out we still couldn't win the East with Favre as QB.. I know you wanted your Geno to shine this year but such is life in the NFL..

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Nobody is embracing mediocrity, people are embracing the best CURRENT option available. You seem to want to bitch and complain about something the Jets cannot change. Yeah, I want Aaron Rodgers or Brady too, but guess what?? THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE.

And if 22TD's and 11int's is mediocre, I would love to see your definition of poor? Oh, thats right, you are clamoring for Geno? Holy hell, you cannot make this crap up.

Agree, enjoying the ride, and watching meaningful football in December does not mean we are ready anoint the beard and sign him to a big contract, Ryan has done everything asked of him so giving credit where credit is due.

 

[Warfish]

Whatever. I will just let everyone else embrace mediocrity. I won't do that, but the subject is old and the Fitz crowd is much more vocal in their OPINION. It's like you have a AMC Pacer and someone gives you a Yugo. To the person getting the Yugo they are all happy because it is one of the best cars they have ever had. But anyone with a brain that can look at the situation objectively knows that you still just have a crappy car.

I embrace playing the best QB on the roster.

I embrace when a QB looks like he may provide one of the best seasons in Jets QB History.

I embrace looking at potentially better options.....in the offseason, when those options may be available.

What do you want, exactly?  How does NOT "embracing" Fitzs relative success this season lead to good things for us fans?

Everyone wants the best possible QB on our team.

Today thats Fitz.  

We can worry about tomorrow.....tomorrow.

Or do you have a better idea?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Whatever. I will just let everyone else embrace mediocrity. I won't do that, but the subject is old and the Fitz crowd is much more vocal in their OPINION. It's like you have a AMC Pacer and someone gives you a Yugo. To the person getting the Yugo they are all happy because it is one of the best cars they have ever had. But anyone with a brain that can look at the situation objectively knows that you still just have a crappy car.

Really ridiculous comparison. If you didn't constantly reach for hyperbole, your arguments might be more credible. The QB situation in the NFL right now is not good. The difference between the elite QB's and the good QB's has narrowed considerably, and there are a bunch of out and out bad QB's shuffling among struggling teams. Fitz is a good QB this year. That's all. But it is enough to make the Jets competitive. When you come up with a truly feasible alternative that was within the Jets' reach and would have been an improvement on Fitz, let us know. Geno was absolutely not that QB. He's a bottom feeder along with the Hoyers, the Mallets, the Ponders, and the Manziels. Sad but true. His days with the Jets are over.

[FloridaJetsFan]

I embrace playing the best QB on the roster.

I embrace when a QB looks like he may provide one of the best seasons in Jets QB History.

I embrace looking at potentially better options.....in the offseason, when those options may be available.

What do you want, exactly?  How does NOT "embracing" Fitzs relative success this season lead to good things for us fans?

Everyone wants the best possible QB on our team.

Today thats Fitz.  

We can worry about tomorrow.....tomorrow.

Or do you have a better idea?

**** the Geno whiners! So tired of hearing their bullsh*t. 

[NYs Stepchild]

Called that back on Nov.19th in the "Fitz last 16 -  interesting" Thread

 

"The Jets' best chance for a championship is to land a SOLID vet QB with plenty of experience under his belt to complement a well-rounded team. I may be in the minority, but I prefer the Rich Gannon on the Raiders, Brad Johnson on TB, Dilfer in Balt, Vinny in '98, Chris Chandler in ATL, etc. route. Because UNLESS we are picking top 3 in the draft w/that every 15 years prospect QB sitting there, I see no other superior alternative. Experience is what matters for a QB to succeed in this league, talent helps. JMO."

 

Posted 15 August · Report post
     On 8/15/2015, 9:35:46, NYs Stepchild said:
Fitz' upside is more along those of Rich Gannon.

Anyone that says he's not any good didn't watch him play last year. He just looks like a real NFL QB.

He's far better than Geno, and better than anyone we've had around here for a long time.

By the most critical measure Fitz was no worse than 18th in the league(ESPN), or as high as 8th(PFF). 9th in passer rating.  

He spent his entire career coming from behind. He's a better QB playing tied, or with the lead. If our defense plays well, and Marshall, and Decker stay healthy he can win a lot of games.

 

[slats]

Lol. I enjoy being accused of giving Fitzpatrick too much credit, and hating him, in the same thread. 

[bassmaster2]

Gannon won a super bowl, Fitz is a below 500 QB and never  finish above 500 in any season 

[FloridaJetsFan]

Gannon won a super bowl, Fitz is a below 500 QB and never  finish above 500 in any season 

Look Villain, you're gonna have to come up with another shtick - you've been exposed here already ...

[Savage69]

Gannon won a super bowl, Fitz is a below 500 QB and never  finish above 500 in any season 

No he didn't he lost to his old Coach Gruden 48-21..

[Villain The Foe]

Lol. I enjoy being accused of giving Fitzpatrick too much credit, and hating him, in the same thread. 

So, do you like Fitz,  hate Fitz or do you perceive Fitz the way others want you to perceive him? 

Any answer "not" the latter is wrong!