Rich Gannon turns out to be a really good comp for Fitz

[Doggin94it]

Exactly. Plunkett was Testederde's comp, a guy with all the physical tools who hadn't gotten it done yet. Gannon is the best case scenario for what Fitz can be, a guy who uses his smarts and overachieves. 

C'mon, it was only 10-15 years ago. It's not like Gannon wore a leather helmet. 

And like I said, it's a best case scenario comparison. I'm not sold yet. 

This is pretty much what I was saying.  Gannon is a great comp for Fitz right now.  Having him turn into what Gannon became is unlikely.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility, and there is absolutely past precedent for a QB with Fitz' pedigree, experience, and history becoming a legitimate medium term starter for a true Super Bowl contender.  So while I'm not suggesting anyone crown Fitz just yet, the idea that the Jets should be walking away from him after this year because he can't possibly be a solution is idiotic.

[Kleckineau]

I like Fitz.

Good guy, decent QB. Teamates seem to love him.

Gannon had a stronger arm.

He could make all the throws.

[Doggin94it]

Gannon won a super bowl, Fitz is a below 500 QB and never  finish above 500 in any season 

Prior to joining the Raiders, Gannon's record was a sparkling 31-27.

As a starter prior to joining the Jets, Fitz's average passer rating over 7 years was 80.17, with a high of 95.3, a low of 69.7 and a median of 81.3 (3 years above that number, 3 below)

In his seven years as a starter immediately before joining the Raiders, Gannon's average passer rating was 77.56, with a high of 92.4, a low of 59.5, and a median of 79.8.

Rant all you want; you would have been saying literally all of the same things about Gannon's history that you dislike about Fitz's

[BowlesMovement]

I like Fitz.

Good guy, decent QB. Teamates seem to love him.

Gannon had a much stronger arm.

He could make all the throws.

Prior to his run with the Raiders, most people thought his lack of arm strength was his biggest flaw. Even with the raiders, they used the short and intermediate passing game a lot, which was his strength.

People act like Fitz has a Chad arm, he does not. Chad floated every damn pass, Fitz throws outs with enough velocity, and throws the seem pass with enough velocity. The deep ball is as much of a timing play as it is an arm strength play.

[Doggin94it]

Again, that doesn't mean Fitz will become Gannon.  It does mean Gannon is the best statistical comp for him.

[Doggin94it]

Prior to his run with the Raiders, most people thought his lack of arm strength was his biggest flaw. Even with the raiders, they used the short and intermediate passing game a lot, which was his strength.

People act like Fitz has a Chad arm, he does not. Chad floated every damn pass, Fitz throws outs with enough velocity, and throws the seem pass with enough velocity. The deep ball is as much of a timing play as it is an arm strength play.

I think part of the problem is people have a hard time separating between "end of career Rich Gannon" and "end of his KC career Rich Gannon".  You talk to people about Rich Gannon, and they think "perennial Pro-Bowler, elite QB".  That's not who he was when he got to the Raiders.  When he got there, he was a well-traveled vet who'd had some success - but mostly failure - as a journeyman QB with a mediocre arm, and was trending moderately upward.

[Jetdawgg]

Appreciate the effort it took here. This is a very good comparison. This season the Jets are getting professional QB'ing for the first time since Favrw. Marshall and Decker look to both be 1,000 yard WR's. Ivory is well on his way to 1,000 yards. With improving offensive help from Powell, Smith and Enunwa Fitz should continue to improve. 

Geno is done here barring injury. I also think that the Jets will look to improve at the QB position next season.

[CTM]

 

Gannon got to Oakland for his age 34 season; Fitz is now 33.  And the numbers through 12 games in NY v. Gannon's first 12 in Oakland:

Ryan Fitzpatrick                     Rich Gannon

246 Comp                              228 Comp

409 Att                                   371 Att

60.1% compl.                         61.45% compl

2,866 yds                               2,836

7.01 YPA                                7.64 YPA

11.65 YPC                             12.43 YPC

22 TD                                    18TD

1TD/18.59 Att                        1TD/20.61 Att

11 INT                                    10 INT

1INT/37.18ATT                      1INT/37.1 ATT

2TD/INT                                 1.8TD/INT

2 RTD, 2F, 0FL                      2RTD, 8F, 7FL

Again, these numbers are eerily similar; close to identical.

I'm not saying Fitzpatrick's late career will resemble Gannon's; Gannon made himself into an MVP candidate - and was the 2002 MVP - and I don't think Fitz's transformation will be anything near that extreme.  But it's not out of the realm of possibility that Fitz will be a legitimate top-50% starting QB for the next several years, with upside to be more.  Would be something to see

 

 

the difference in YPA is significant and reason enough to predict fitz won't touch gannon

[Doggin94it]

the difference in YPA is significant and reason enough to predict fitz won't touch gannon

Yep - that's a 10% difference and the only real separation.  But 7YPA is good enough (that's essentially the "competence" line for QBs; anything below it is problematic; anything above is gravy

[CTM]

Yep - that's a 10% difference and the only real separation.  But 7YPA is good enough (that's essentially the "competence" line for QBs; anything below it is problematic; anything above is gravy

fitz is in bottom third of league in that stat and ultimately it's the most predictive of the stats you listed.  it's the worst stat to be underperforming in for the comparison. Gannon was probably top 5. Big difference 

[Gas2No99]

 

so your point is that we agree? Good.

[Maxman]

Whatever. I will just let everyone else embrace mediocrity. I won't do that, but the subject is old and the Fitz crowd is much more vocal in their OPINION. It's like you have a AMC Pacer and someone gives you a Yugo. To the person getting the Yugo they are all happy because it is one of the best cars they have ever had. But anyone with a brain that can look at the situation objectively knows that you still just have a crappy car.

Just stop with the personal attacks. Being smarter than everyone else might be a burden. I wouldn't know. But there is no need to insult everyone over a difference of opinion.

Fitz looked pretty good again today. I am failing to see what the problem is here exactly. He is easy to root for, the Jets are playing well. Let's sit back and enjoy the season.

[Ruby2]

Holy f*%k when will this nonsense stop. He is OK. He has played very well for 2 games, and terrible the 2 games before that. We have a dirt easy schedule, in fact the AFC East has the easiest schedules in the entire NFL with half of their schedule being the NFC east and AFC Notrth 2 of the worst if not THE 2 worst divisions in football. And we have still not beaten a winning team, and the QB everyone is so excited about is so limited he actually has to play almost perfect to be effective. What we are seeing from the Jets O is Marshall, Gailey and a stupidly easy schedule. Fitz is what he is. It is still not good enough but by all means continue to act like the guy is some great late blooming QB. Fitz is purely the present. We pretty much need a miracle to reach the playoffs, let's see how he does when it matters before crowning his ass.

Almost everyone's schedule is easy. The entire NFL outside of 3-4 teams is mediocre to bad.

[Jetman55]

He's hot.  I think the Jets take care of business next week and the Patriots game becomes huge.  If Fitz can get us that win, we're cooking into the play-offs as a team no one wants to play.

[JohnnyLV]

Almost everyone's schedule is easy. The entire NFL outside of 3-4 teams is mediocre to bad.

We have the 4th easiest strength of schedule in the NFL this year.

[Jet9]

We have the 4th easiest strength of schedule in the NFL this year.

Today my commute home from work wasn't too bad.

 

Wish there was a traffic jam...and I was on E...with a hurricane bearing down...on Friday the 13th...while wearing a tutu.

[thshadow]

We have the 4th easiest strength of schedule in the NFL this year.

If you look at the teams with the 10 easiest strength of schedule, that includes the Pats and the Dolphins.  One reason is that the AFCE has a good collective record - so whoever we play will have a worse record.  In particular, the NFCE.

[Smashmouth]

He is having one of the best years a Jets QB has had. Yes the bar is pretty low. But still, his numbers have a chance to break Jets records.

Plus the comparison to Gannon is a good one right now. So the thread isn't nonsense. 

If you don't have anything to add, don't add anything.

thank you

[Smashmouth]

fitz is in bottom third of league in that stat and ultimately it's the most predictive of the stats you listed.  it's the worst stat to be underperforming in for the comparison. Gannon was probably top 5. Big difference 

YPA my ass ...what's Fitz red zone numbers ...how many TD's has he thrown ? How many huge first downs has he run for ? Whats his TD to int ratio ?

The Jets Offense is number 1 in the NFL in the redzone When were we ever able to say that ? Every one of the stats listed above are more important than YPA in a ball control offense . The Jets offense is not built to do what you expect, they are built to control the football and they do it very well in fact they do it better than they ever have and since you have been such a loud mouth about it ALL being about the QB and the QB making everyone else around him better we finally get that and you still find reason to complain about something..

[JohnnyLV]

If you look at the teams with the 10 easiest strength of schedule, that includes the Pats and the Dolphins.  One reason is that the AFCE has a good collective record - so whoever we play will have a worse record.  In particular, the NFCE.

Actually that statement is not close to true.

https://www.fantasyindex.com/2015/12/09/scheduletron/updated-strength-of-schedule

Look, I WANT to be wrong. I just think what we are seeing is a function of Marshall, Gailey, healthy Decker and Schedule and Fitz is along for the ride but it seems most want to give the credit to Fitz. I think Fitz performance this year is a complete illusion. 

 

 

[Smashmouth]

Actually that statement is not close to true.

https://www.fantasyindex.com/2015/12/09/scheduletron/updated-strength-of-schedule

Look, I WANT to be wrong. I just think what we are seeing is a function of Marshall, Gailey, healthy Decker and Schedule and Fitz is along for the ride but it seems most want to give the credit to Fitz. I think Fitz performance this year is a complete illusion. 

 

 

speaking of illusions why don't you make like magic and go disappear

[j4jets]

I haven't done the research but isn't it possible that the Raiders had a weak schedule and were playing against banged up defences that year too?  I just don't understand why so many Jets fans are so quick to try to put our 2015 accomplishments into the poorest light possible. You gotta ask yourself, why were the Raiders starting a jag (Gannon) that year?   Before you dump on the Jets you should at least do your homework.  

Well Gannon went to four straight Pro Bowls, was two time All Pro, and won two straight Pro Bowl MVPs. All this with a SB appearance. So yeah, whereas its possible the Raiders had a weak schedule for one year, I refuse to do my homework to see if they had a weak schedule for four straight seasons. Also remember, that 2002 was when he played his last football as he got injured in the subsequent years and didn't have much to compare against. The Ty Law rule was yet to be enacted (2004). Passing for 4k yards back then was a major feat. He passed for over 4600 yards. So no, Gannon didn't forge his numbers against sh*t Ds.

Having said that, The Beard looked unstoppable today (wish we were equally aggressive in the 2nd half). He has proven himself to be an above average QB with possibly a top-3 WR duo. If Fitz can finish strong with 6-7 TDs in the last 3 games and 3 wins, I can see him making the PB (as Brady almost never participates in it and Dalton is hurt, leaving Rivers, Bortles, Carr and Fitz to fight it out IMO).

[jgb]

YPA my ass ...what's Fitz red zone numbers ...how many TD's has he thrown ? How many huge first downs has he run for ? Whats his TD to int ratio ?

The Jets Offense is number 1 in the NFL in the redzone When were we ever able to say that ? Every one of the stats listed above are more important than YPA in a ball control offense . The Jets offense is not built to do what you expect, they are built to control the football and they do it very well in fact they do it better than they ever have and since you have been such a loud mouth about it ALL being about the QB and the QB making everyone else around him better we finally get that and you still find reason to complain about something..

You can always find a stat to malign a guy if you're biased against him. there are probably some guys out there mocking brady for having a low yards per rushing attempt.

[Smashmouth]

Well Gannon went to four straight Pro Bowls, was two time All Pro, and won two straight Pro Bowl MVPs. All this with a SB appearance. So yeah, whereas its possible the Raiders had a weak schedule for one year, I refuse to do my homework to see if they had a weak schedule for four straight seasons. Also remember, that 2002 was when he played his last football as he got injured in the subsequent years and didn't have much to compare against. The Ty Law rule was yet to be enacted (2004). Passing for 4k yards back then was a major feat. He passed for over 4600 yards. So no, Gannon didn't forge his numbers against sh*t Ds.

Having said that, The Beard looked unstoppable today (wish we were equally aggressive in the 2nd half). He has proven himself to be an above average QB with possibly a top-3 WR duo. If Fitz can finish strong with 6-7 TDs in the last 3 games and 3 wins, I can see him making the PB (as Brady almost never participates in it and Dalton is hurt, leaving Rivers, Bortles, Carr and Fitz to fight it out IMO).

Fitz has looked very good and yes he is an above average QB who has proven himself while finally able to play with some talented players. If Fitz were here the last 6 years with the crap we put on the field on offense you would have seen a Good QB go to waste and unfortunately he would have gotten most of the blame at JN.

Now that we have a QB lets see what we add in the offseason. A TE and a threat at the RB position would turn this offense into a top five unit and I think we are pretty close to that as a unit right now.

I think with a few smart moves to strengthen this team we can contend for a SB next year. This year I hope we make the playoffs to get some of our younger players into that mindset

[thshadow]

Actually that statement is not close to true.

https://www.fantasyindex.com/2015/12/09/scheduletron/updated-strength-of-schedule

 

Huh?  That page doesn't show SOS over the full year - it shows two separate tables.  Are you now just talking about SOS over games we've played so far?  If so, the Jets are 5th (not 4th) and the Dolphins are 8th.  Also note, the Pats aren't there, because in this table, this guy removes the team's own games.  Which maybe is fair for the Pats - but not really for the Jets.

My point still stands - one reason the Jets' SOS is weak is because we play the NFCE, just like everyone in the AFCE - and everyone in the AFCE is either decent or extremely good (Pats).

 

[nyjunc]

you can't compare #s from these different eras, gannon in oak was a 2 time 1st team all pro and won league MVP.  I love what Fitz has done for us but he's not comparable to gannon.

[Integrity28]

Let's make a few things clear first.

Fitz has played better than I expected.

He also has rebounded very well after a few really bad outings. 

Marshall bails him out several times a game simply with his size. 

Now the obvious: One of the easiest schedule in the league. That's a fact. And another fact is, in most of the games we have played, the opposing Ds have had several key injuries to LBs and/or DBs. That, or they have had one of the worst Ds outright. I'm not gonna go game by game but I remember not having to face a full strength D more than once in the first five or 6 games and that continued on. Similarly, Giants have one of the worst Ds in the league right now. 

Theres a reason why Fitz has had a good year statistically and it's not because he's transforming into Rich Gannon. Having said that, I do hope I'm wrong and Fitz has really turned the corners to be a top 10 QB going forward. I love his competitive nature and the fact that he's willing to run when there's nothing there. 

lol

Decker bails him out too. So does Powell. Gronk and Edelman bail Brady out quite often too. Beckham bails out Eli. Demarius bailed out Peyton. Antonio Brown and Martavus Bryant bail out Ben. That's sort of how passing games work. There has to be skill and effort on both ends of a completion. Of all the silly arguments being made against Fitz this season, this one is my favorite. That receivers "bail him out". Do the people that make this argument ever watch any football? 

As for the schedule, the league is what the league is this year. Can't control the level of competition. The fact remains that apart from the 4-5 game stretch after we lost to the Pats, and everyone was either playing hurt or out hurt, we've been a good football team. We've got a team that's still figuring themselves out, and have won 8 games. Look at the history of this team... we are on pace for double-digit wins, we've done that I think only 10 times since 1968. 

I didn't like Rex, and thought he was a bad coach from day 1, but when he was winning I just accepted it. I suggest the Fitz complainers find a similar way to just enjoy what we've got going this season. It's very, very rare for this franchise and fanbase. Don't miss it because you've become hellbent on "proving" Fitz isn't as good as the results the Jets are getting with him. 

 

[Jetup]

I've made this comparison on a few posts already. I remember Rich Gannon and watched him since he was drafted. There are many similarities between the two. The Raiders offense had weapons that Gannon had never had before and he read defenses with his great Football IQ and got the ball to his playmakers. Also those Raiders teams were balanced with a good running attack which gave Gannon time in the pocket. He like Fitz stopped trying to make all the throws and decided to player a cleaner, better, more efficient brand of football. His late career accomplishments were unheard of that time especially w/ him being 34 at the time. Now we need to see more of Fitz before labeling him Rich Gannon, but the writing is on the wall.

[nyjunc]

I've made this comparison on a few posts already. I remember Rich Gannon and watched him since he was drafted. There are many similarities between the two. The Raiders offense had weapons that Gannon had never had before and he read defenses with his great Football IQ and got the ball to his playmakers. Also those Raiders teams were balanced with a good running attack which gave Gannon time in the pocket. He like Fitz stopped trying to make all the throws and decided to player a cleaner, better, more efficient brand of football. His late career accomplishments were unheard of that time especially w/ him being 34 at the time. Now we need to see more of Fitz before labeling him Rich Gannon, but the writing is on the wall.

Gannon had winning records w/ 3 of the 4 teams he played for.  there really isn't any comparison btw the 2.

 

 

[Jetup]

Gannon had winning records w/ 3 of the 4 teams he played for.  there really isn't any comparison btw the 2.

 

 

Rich Gannon was a journey man QB. There stats actually favor Fitz, but the NFL was different back then. Although he was on some winning teams, those teams were a hell of a lot more talented then what Fitz had to work with. Also Gannon was a marginal QB who never could get it done prior to Oakland. He was picked up off the scrap heap so lets not rewrite history. The comparison is a good one, but I need to see this out of Fitz for two more years.

[nyjunc]

Rich Gannon was a journey man QB. There stats actually favor Fitz, but the NFL was different back then. Although he was on some winning teams, those teams were a hell of a lot more talented then what Fitz had to work with. Also Gannon was a marginal QB who never could get it done prior to Oakland. He was picked up off the scrap heap so lets not rewrite history. The comparison is a good one, but I need to see this out of Fitz for two more years.

they play/played in completely different eras and most of Fitz's career has been playing in meaningless games putting up meaningless #s.  he has been excellent for us this year but he isn't close to gannon.

[Jetup]

they play/played in completely different eras and most of Fitz's career has been playing in meaningless games putting up meaningless #s.  he has been excellent for us this year but he isn't close to gannon.

Yes I already said the NFL was different back then, when there was not as much passing and spread offenses. But pre Oakland the comparison could be made. Gannon turned into a different Qb under Gruden and having Tim Brown and Jerry Rice did not hurt. Prior to that with the Vikings and the other plethora of teams he indeed had some winning records, but he was an average Qb at best

[nyjunc]

Yes I already said the NFL was different back then, when there was not as much passing and spread offenses. But pre Oakland the comparison could be made. Gannon turned into a different Qb under Gruden and having Tim Brown and Jerry Rice did not hurt. Prior to that with the Vikings and the other plethora of teams he indeed had some winning records, but he was an average Qb at best

Gannon turned into a 1 st team all pro w/ those guys and a league MVP.  when Ryan does that i'll agree.

[Snell41]

I agree, but I'll also have to atleast give the guy the rest of the season as well. 

The comparison to Gannon is cool, at the moment, but Gannon did ALOT that year for that team. If Fitz gets through these last 4 games, makes a statement against the Pats and the Bills then do some damage in the playoffs then I can see the comparison. 

Right now however, is just "stats" that Fitz accumulated against teams that arent good. And though we dont pick our schedule, the schedule is what it is. 

Its one thing to break Jets records, its a shame that they've stood so long when the league has been a passing league for more than a decade, if Fitz can get to the playoffs and play playoff teams and produce wins then my tune on him will change for sure. 

I think that the fanbase has been so thirsty for success that we're putting the cart before the horse just a bit. I've done it too. We can make obvious comments like how we dont pick our schedule, but that doesnt mean that we disregard it either. We're 7-5 playing a very easy schedule. 

Its a winning record, but not an impressive one. So I think you have a point here. 

Do people actually remember watching Gannon?  I'm thinking you may not.  Gannon had Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Charlie Garner.  Marshall/Decker/Ivory are real nice don't get me wrong, but that's 2 HOF's and one of the best receiving RB's ever.  The entire OAK offense was predicated on timing slants and outlet passes to Garner.  It was devastatingly painful to watch as an opponent because he would just kill you with a thousand cuts.  Plus, ironically like Fitz, Gannon was a sneaky runner.  But it's no coincidence that Gannon started playing like an all pro when he showed up on a team with HOF's and studs all around.  Much the same with Fitz.

[Jetup]

Do people actually remember watching Gannon?  I'm thinking you may not.  Gannon had Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Charlie Garner.  Marshall/Decker/Ivory are real nice don't get me wrong, but that's 2 HOF's and one of the best receiving RB's ever.  The entire OAK offense was predicated on timing slants and outlet passes to Garner.  It was devastatingly painful to watch as an opponent because he would just kill you with a thousand cuts.  Plus, ironically like Fitz, Gannon was a sneaky runner.  But it's no coincidence that Gannon started playing like an all pro when he showed up on a team with HOF's and studs all around.  Much the same with Fitz.

Exactly