Rich Gannon turns out to be a really good comp for Fitz

[Snell41]

they play/played in completely different eras and most of Fitz's career has been playing in meaningless games putting up meaningless #s.  he has been excellent for us this year but he isn't close to gannon.

At the moment he's not, you're right.  He needs 4 more years of stellar play to be comparable.  But he is comparable to Gannon's first year in OAK.  And frankly he is going to likely have a statistical season that far outperforms any of Gannon's years with OAK (yes you can cite the era card here I know and it's fair).  But prior to OAK Gannon was downright awful.  And the talk in OAK when he first showed up is probably very much like the talk of Fitz now.  Fitz is going to have Marshall and Decker for at least another year.  I suspect Mac will make some solid moves over time to keep the offense strong.  And if he does I think Fitz can be quite solid for the next few years, just like Gannon was for OAK.  But let's not forget Gannon walked into Tim Brown, James Jett, Andre Rison, N Kaufman, and T Wheatley to start, and parlayed it onto Jerry Rice, Garner, and Joey Porter.  If you also notice, they still had Kaufman, Wheatley, and added Ritchie and Zack Crockett.  What they never had was a TE.  Ironically they ran pretty much exactly what Gailey runs now.  Can Fitz become as good as Gannon was?  Probaby not.  Can he continue to plays as solid as he has with us?  I think so, as long as Macc is consistent in adding solid pieces to the offense. 

[nyjunc]

Do people actually remember watching Gannon?  I'm thinking you may not.  Gannon had Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Charlie Garner.  Marshall/Decker/Ivory are real nice don't get me wrong, but that's 2 HOF's and one of the best receiving RB's ever.  The entire OAK offense was predicated on timing slants and outlet passes to Garner.  It was devastatingly painful to watch as an opponent because he would just kill you with a thousand cuts.  Plus, ironically like Fitz, Gannon was a sneaky runner.  But it's no coincidence that Gannon started playing like an all pro when he showed up on a team with HOF's and studs all around.  Much the same with Fitz.

I don't think people do remember or they wouldn't compare him to Fitz.  Fitz has done really well for us, gannon was arguably the best QB in the sport for a 3-4 year stretch in Oakland.

Our skill guys are every bit as good as those skill guys, if not better.  Jerry Rice wasn't 1990s Jerry Rice, Brown was great.  Marshall now is better than Rice or Brown at that time, Decker now is as good as Rice or Brown at that time.  do we have a Garner as a pass catcher out of the backfield? no but Bilal has looked damn good when healthy.

Gannon made 1st team all pro for the first time in 2000, Rice and Garner were both in SF and the #2 WR was an old, beat up Andre Rison.

Gannon also had winning records w/ other teams, something Fitz has never done until this year w/ us. 

[nyjunc]

At the moment he's not, you're right.  He needs 4 more years of stellar play to be comparable.  But he is comparable to Gannon's first year in OAK.  And frankly he is going to likely have a statistical season that far outperforms any of Gannon's years with OAK (yes you can cite the era card here I know and it's fair).  But prior to OAK Gannon was downright awful.  And the talk in OAK when he first showed up is probably very much like the talk of Fitz now.  Fitz is going to have Marshall and Decker for at least another year.  I suspect Mac will make some solid moves over time to keep the offense strong.  And if he does I think Fitz can be quite solid for the next few years, just like Gannon was for OAK.  But let's not forget Gannon walked into Tim Brown, James Jett, Andre Rison, N Kaufman, and T Wheatley to start, and parlayed it onto Jerry Rice, Garner, and Joey Porter.  If you also notice, they still had Kaufman, Wheatley, and added Ritchie and Zack Crockett.  What they never had was a TE.  Ironically they ran pretty much exactly what Gailey runs now.  Can Fitz become as good as Gannon was?  Probaby not.  Can he continue to plays as solid as he has with us?  I think so, as long as Macc is consistent in adding solid pieces to the offense. 

Please stop bringing up stats, you cannot compare a QB from 1999 or 2000 to today.  compare them against their peers:

Gannon was 4th in TDs in 1999, Fitz 8th right now.

Gannon 7th in pass yds in 199, Fitz not top 10

Gannon 6th in rating, Fitz not top 10

Gannon 7th in passes completed, Fitz not top 10

 

I understand the journeyman thing and that Fitz may have found a home for a few years but people forget how great gannon was for a 3-4 year stretch.

 

[EM31]

Time to stop with all of this nonsense and start Geno.

There I said it.

Johnnysd was thinking it I just know he was.

[Snell41]

I don't think people do remember or they wouldn't compare him to Fitz.  Fitz has done really well for us, gannon was arguably the best QB in the sport for a 3-4 year stretch in Oakland.

Our skill guys are every bit as good as those skill guys, if not better.  Jerry Rice wasn't 1990s Jerry Rice, Brown was great.  Marshall now is better than Rice or Brown at that time, Decker now is as good as Rice or Brown at that time.  do we have a Garner as a pass catcher out of the backfield? no but Bilal has looked damn good when healthy.

Gannon made 1st team all pro for the first time in 2000, Rice and Garner were both in SF and the #2 WR was an old, beat up Andre Rison.

Gannon also had winning records w/ other teams, something Fitz has never done until this year w/ us. 

No no no, no.  You can't have cake and eat it too.  You are wayyyyy off the map.  If you want to argue "eras" you can't sit there and say "well this HOF wasn't quite as good at that time".  Nonsense.  They were HOF caliber players, and they were sick as hell when they were on OAK.  Furthermore please don't even start with Bilal vs Garner.  Again you're contradicting your own argument.  You want to say Fitz isn't comparable to Gannon because Gannon was "arguably the best QB in the sport for a 3-4 year stretch in Oakland", yet you have the audacity to say "do we have a Garner as a pass catcher out of the backfield? no but Bilal has looked damn good when healthy."  Bilal has been healthy for 2 games.  Garner was awesome for multiple years.  Come on man.  Fitz supporters are simply saying after what is coming up to 1 season, he looks a lot like Gannon had after 1 season in OAK.  A fair comparison, by no means stating Fitz will become what Gannon was, but relatively the best FA older QB comparison you can make after one season so far.  Yet you want to poo poo that, then turn around and say Garner was great, but look Fitz has Bilal Powell who's looked great for 2 games as well!  And by the way if Gannon had a winning season with another team prior to OAK, it sure as hell wasn't thanks to him. 

[nyjunc]

No no no, no.  You can't have cake and eat it too.  You are wayyyyy off the map.  If you want to argue "eras" you can't sit there and say "well this HOF wasn't quite as good at that time".  Nonsense.  They were HOF caliber players, and they were sick as hell when they were on OAK.  Furthermore please don't even start with Bilal vs Garner.  Again you're contradicting your own argument.  You want to say Fitz isn't comparable to Gannon because Gannon was "arguably the best QB in the sport for a 3-4 year stretch in Oakland", yet you have the audacity to say "do we have a Garner as a pass catcher out of the backfield? no but Bilal has looked damn good when healthy."  Bilal has been healthy for 2 games.  Garner was awesome for multiple years.  Come on man.  Fitz supporters are simply saying after what is coming up to 1 season, he looks a lot like Gannon had after 1 season in OAK.  A fair comparison, by no means stating Fitz will become what Gannon was, but relatively the best FA older QB comparison you can make after one season so far.  Yet you want to poo poo that, then turn around and say Garner was great, but look Fitz has Bilal Powell who's looked great for 2 games as well!  And by the way if Gannon had a winning season with another team prior to OAK, it sure as hell wasn't thanks to him. 

Brandon Marshall is going to be a Hall of Famer.  He's  better than Tim Brown was.

Jerry Rice is the greatest of all time but he was at the end of his career.  Marshall is better than either, Decker just as good as either(while those guys were late in their careers).

Again, he was 1st team all pro WITHOUT Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

 

maybe it wasn't thanks to him but teams could win w/ him, something no team had been able to do until this years Jets w/ Fitz.

[Snell41]

Brandon Marshall is going to be a Hall of Famer.  He's  better than Tim Brown was.

Jerry Rice is the greatest of all time but he was at the end of his career.  Marshall is better than either, Decker just as good as either(while those guys were late in their careers).

Again, he was 1st team all pro WITHOUT Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

 

maybe it wasn't thanks to him but teams could win w/ him, something no team had been able to do until this years Jets w/ Fitz.

Right, and we're comparing Fitz's first year to Gannon's first year.  That's a very fair comparison.  In fact it the best journeyman comparison to make because Fitz is putting up numbers very comparable.  And Brandon was on the decline until he got here.  Many folks were poo pooing the move to trade for him at all.  Thank god he has a QB good enough to resurrect his career.  And guess what, he's gonna have to keep up his performance for another 3-4 years if you think he's gonna become a HOF WR.  Including adding some playoff time to his resume, of which he has none right now.  Again, thank goodness for him he has a competent QB to maybe help him solidify those numbers.  And Brandon is not better than Tim Brown was if you want to bring era into the equation.  Tim Brown was doing what he was doing while being mugged before the Ty Law rules came into effect.  You can't keep talking out of both sides of your mouth on this.  Either the eras were different or they weren't.  The bottom line is right now, compared to Gannon's first season in OAK, they are eerily similar.  If Fitz plays as well as he has this season over the next 3/4 seasons then this is by far a great conversation to be having.  But right now, the comparison is a journeyman QB who did nothing leading up to his new team suddenly performing at a very high level.  Not many QB's have done it, with the exception of Gannon and Fitz.  Period. 

[j4jets]

lol

Decker bails him out too. So does Powell. Gronk and Edelman bail Brady out quite often too. Beckham bails out Eli. Demarius bailed out Peyton. Antonio Brown and Martavus Bryant bail out Ben. That's sort of how passing games work. There has to be skill and effort on both ends of a completion. Of all the silly arguments being made against Fitz this season, this one is my favorite. That receivers "bail him out". Do the people that make this argument ever watch any football? 

As for the schedule, the league is what the league is this year. Can't control the level of competition. The fact remains that apart from the 4-5 game stretch after we lost to the Pats, and everyone was either playing hurt or out hurt, we've been a good football team. We've got a team that's still figuring themselves out, and have won 8 games. Look at the history of this team... we are on pace for double-digit wins, we've done that I think only 10 times since 1968. 

I didn't like Rex, and thought he was a bad coach from day 1, but when he was winning I just accepted it. I suggest the Fitz complainers find a similar way to just enjoy what we've got going this season. It's very, very rare for this franchise and fanbase. Don't miss it because you've become hellbent on "proving" Fitz isn't as good as the results the Jets are getting with him. 

 

Well I guess Fitzy had no one to bail him out the rest of his career. We lost games when Marshall was hurt n Powell was out. Are you telling me the Jets need two top end WRs for Fitz to be just above average? Because that's something out previous QBs didn't have. 

I understand the schedule part and the weak Ds with several key injuries we have played against. Let's hope that trend continues in the playoffs. Oh wait, it won't. So let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Fitz will put up 30 points against the likes of Denver n Bengals every game. 

[Snell41]

Well I guess Fitzy had no one to bail him out the rest of his career. We lost games when Marshall was hurt n Powell was out. Are you telling me the Jets need two top end WRs for Fitz to be just above average? Because that's something out previous QBs didn't have. 

I understand the schedule part and the weak Ds with several key injuries we have played against. Let's hope that trend continues in the playoffs. Oh wait, it won't. So let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Fitz will put up 30 points against the likes of Denver n Bengals every game. 

Yes he does.  So did Gannon, because prior to OAK Gannon was awful. 

[nyjunc]

Right, and we're comparing Fitz's first year to Gannon's first year.  That's a very fair comparison.  In fact it the best journeyman comparison to make because Fitz is putting up numbers very comparable.  And Brandon was on the decline until he got here.  Many folks were poo pooing the move to trade for him at all.  Thank god he has a QB good enough to resurrect his career.  And guess what, he's gonna have to keep up his performance for another 3-4 years if you think he's gonna become a HOF WR.  Including adding some playoff time to his resume, of which he has none right now.  Again, thank goodness for him he has a competent QB to maybe help him solidify those numbers.  And Brandon is not better than Tim Brown was if you want to bring era into the equation.  Tim Brown was doing what he was doing while being mugged before the Ty Law rules came into effect.  You can't keep talking out of both sides of your mouth on this.  Either the eras were different or they weren't.  The bottom line is right now, compared to Gannon's first season in OAK, they are eerily similar.  If Fitz plays as well as he has this season over the next 3/4 seasons then this is by far a great conversation to be having.  But right now, the comparison is a journeyman QB who did nothing leading up to his new team suddenly performing at a very high level.  Not many QB's have done it, with the exception of Gannon and Fitz.  Period. 

Fitz's 1st year he has Marshall, decker, Ivory, etc...  Gannon's first he had Brown, Andrew Rison, Tyrone Wheatley. this would be equivalent to what we had on offense last year not this year.

the only one talking out of both sides of their mouth is you. 

 

Brandon marshall is better than Tim Brown. Brown played 17 seasons, Marshall has played 9 seasons:

In 17 seasons Brown never made 1st team all pro. marshall has been a 1st team all pro

top 5 in recs 1 time, Marshall 6 times

top 5 in rec yds 4 times, Marshall

never top 5 in rec TDs, Marshall 3 times

 

[nyjunc]

Yes he does.  So did Gannon, because prior to OAK Gannon was awful. 

maybe he was awful? but he was 31-27 as a starter. that's better than 33-55, right?

[Villain The Foe]

Do people actually remember watching Gannon?  I'm thinking you may not.  Gannon had Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Charlie Garner.  Marshall/Decker/Ivory are real nice don't get me wrong, but that's 2 HOF's and one of the best receiving RB's ever.  The entire OAK offense was predicated on timing slants and outlet passes to Garner.  It was devastatingly painful to watch as an opponent because he would just kill you with a thousand cuts.  Plus, ironically like Fitz, Gannon was a sneaky runner.  But it's no coincidence that Gannon started playing like an all pro when he showed up on a team with HOF's and studs all around.  Much the same with Fitz.

I dont disagree with you at all. Look at the amount of quality players that came in around the same time as Fitz. This isnt a surprise. This is actually why I never liked the Fitz/Geno comparison. Its not the same team at all. Not from a players perspective and most certainly not from a coaching perspective. 

Fitz gets majority of the credit because he's the QB. Its easy to forget how we got a legit #1 WR for a 5th round pick moving Decker to his more natural spot and by that having a legit #2. Mix that with James Carpenter and Winters playing strong at the opposite guard position, a defense creating turnovers (I think we had to wait till week 13 for the defense to register a TO last season), our most competent OC since Tuna has been our coach....

 

Its simple to see why Fitz is having such a year. The man has been presented everything that a QB would need to succeed, and thats not even taking into account our schedule this year. 

Marshall may not be a Jerry Rice, but Marshall in regards to today's game is top 5 in all of football. He's 4th in total yards, and he has more TD's than the 3 guys ahead of him. Our #2 WR is 19th in the league. The only other team with 2 WR's in the top 20 besides the Jets is Arizona, and in regards to TD's the Jets WR's are destroying Arizona's top WR's. 

I just heard last week that James Carpenter is playing at a probowl level. I dont know when the last time we complained about Brian Winters, he's been playing for weeks and completely dominated Suh during both games against the fins. 

 

Fitz has done very well, but the man isnt the driving force of the offense. Its a very balanced squad with quality targets in the passing game and a top 5 running back in Ivory. 

 

I have to admit, I havent seen a Jets offense like this in terms of talent probably ever. the 98 season was stacked, but this may be even better. 

[j4jets]

Yes he does.  So did Gannon, because prior to OAK Gannon was awful. 

Ge needs to pass for 5k yards, 40+ TDs and <10 ints to be 'considered' a league MVP and it still wouldn't guarantee it these days. Gannon was on a different level in Oakland. Fitz is one hit away to a WR from becoming a below average again. He needs to carry this team and win against the Pats for me to change my mind on that. Don't get me wrong, I hope he does.

I predicted 11 wins at the beginning of the season and was called out for that. And my prediction took into account Fitz' play as well as the weak schedule. That prediction looks decent right now as we should get at least 10 wins. So it's not like I thought Fitz was going to throw for 15tds and 15 ints. 

[Integrity28]

Well I guess Fitzy had no one to bail him out the rest of his career. We lost games when Marshall was hurt n Powell was out. Are you telling me the Jets need two top end WRs for Fitz to be just above average? Because that's something out previous QBs didn't have. 

I understand the schedule part and the weak Ds with several key injuries we have played against. Let's hope that trend continues in the playoffs. Oh wait, it won't. So let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Fitz will put up 30 points against the likes of Denver n Bengals every game. 

No, like I said, there has to be skill on both ends of a completion though. Fitzpatrick showed serious signs of maturation and skill improvement last year with Houston, and that has carried over to this year. Marshall and Decker are without question the best pair of WRs he's had, but certainly not the only. He was throwing to Hopkins and Andre Johnson last year. He had Stevie Johnson in Buffalo. 

Nothing about the point I'm making suggests our other QBs wouldn't have benefited from top WRs too. 

I don't think you need to score 30 to beat Denver. Oakland was able to beat them this weekend scoring 15, no? 

I'm rooting for us to make the playoffs... I'm not sure what you're talking about with regards to people "fooling themselves". Anything can happen in the post-season, especially if our defense can stay healthy.

[Jetup]

Listen he still needs to make the throws regardless of the talent surrounding him. Guess what?? He has. Give the man some credit. Yes it definitely helps having a dominant WR and an above average second receiver, but he is the one throwing  the ball. Ive seen many teams stacked on the offensive side not do what this team has because of the QB play. As far as the Brandon Marshall comparison to Rice and Brown, he will one day be in that category. The best thing about those two was the longevity each had playing above average football. Either way this comparison of the two Qbs is spot on, Fitz needs to do this over another 3 year span, but if he does they will be looked at in history the same way.

[Villain The Foe]

Listen he still needs to make the throws regardless of the talent surrounding him. Guess what?? He has. Give the man some credit. Yes it definitely helps having a dominant WR and an above average second receiver, but he is the one throwing  the ball. Ive seen many teams stacked on the offensive side not do what this team has because of the QB play. As far as the Brandon Marshall comparison to Rice and Brown, he will one day be in that category. The best thing about those two was the longevity each had playing above average football. Either way this comparison of the two Qbs is spot on, Fitz needs to do this over another 3 year span, but if he does they will be looked at in history the same way.

Fitz has received credit. We can be observant without discrediting him. 

[j4jets]

No, like I said, there has to be skill on both ends of a completion though. Fitzpatrick showed serious signs of maturation and skill improvement last year with Houston, and that has carried over to this year. Marshall and Decker are without question the best pair of WRs he's had, but certainly not the only. He was throwing to Hopkins and Andre Johnson last year. He had Stevie Johnson in Buffalo. 

Nothing about the point I'm making suggests our other QBs wouldn't have benefited from top WRs too. 

I don't think you need to score 30 to beat Denver. Oakland was able to beat them this weekend scoring 15, no? 

I'm rooting for us to make the playoffs... I'm not sure what you're talking about with regards to people "fooling themselves". Anything can happen in the post-season, especially if our defense can stay healthy.

Well the blueprint to defeating the Broncos must be scoring 15 points. Didn't work for Pats, but hey, it has a 5% chance of working. 

If we are to do any damage in the playoffs, Fitz needs to be perfect, which is mistake free game with about 65-70% completion and a good YPA. 

[Integrity28]

Well the blueprint to defeating the Broncos must be scoring 15 points. Didn't work for Pats, but hey, it has a 5% chance of working. 

If we are to do any damage in the playoffs, Fitz needs to be perfect, which is mistake free game with about 65-70% completion and a good YPA. 

I didn't present it as the "blueprint".

LOL, don't get snotty with me because you're making arguments based on a false premise.

[j4jets]

I didn't present it as the "blueprint".

LOL, don't get snotty with me because you're making arguments based on a false premise.

False premise or maybe Im assuming you think any team can win with 15 points against Broncos since it was done yesterday?

[Snell41]

So basically in summation from the detractors, people can't use Rich Gannon as a comparison of a comparable veteran who otherwise found a high level of success with a team late in his career because Fitz is Fitz and sucked before therefore he must still suck and only doesn't suck because he has all world talent around him.  Conversely Gannon walking into a situation with a very highly respected offensive coach and some serious talent upgrades including a thousand yard rusher, HOF WR (soon to be 2 HOF WR's), and soon to be one of the top receiving RB's in the league doesn't matter at all, because previously sucking Gannon magically turned into super HOF caliber Gannon all on his own and none of that talent mattered.  Let's completely dismiss the fact that Gannon sucked far worse as a QB in his years prior to OAK.  And let's completely dismiss the fact that the ones making the comparison are doing so based on Gannon's first year in OAK vs Fitz's first year in NY.  Not Gannon's career in OAK vs Fitz's first year in NY. 

I just don't get why people can't look at this objectively and see that the comparison is not whether Fitz will in fact become an All Pro MVP in the next 3 years, but rather more to the fact that the last time a career failed veteran has really made a mark like this with a new team is in fact, Rich Gannon and the stats and situation of both player's first years are eerily similar.  I'm willing to bet that if 1999 had a message board similar to this, there would be a lot of OAK fans who also would've been clamoring to not set ties with Gannon and not to expect anything long term based on his past history.  OAK only went 8-8 his first year and he was surrounded with equally similar talent.  The point is if we keep the talent we have on offense and look to upgrade as needed we could have a solid long term solution at QB for the next few years. 

[nyjunc]

Gannon had limited success w/ limited opportunities, Fitz had no success w/ numerous opportunities.  I understand the basic comparison but when examining the situations closer it's probably not the best comparison.  a Steve Beuerlein would be a better comparison.  I think people forget how great Gannon was in Oakland.

[Jetup]

Gannon had limited success w/ limited opportunities, Fitz had no success w/ numerous opportunities.  I understand the basic comparison but when examining the situations closer it's probably not the best comparison.  a Steve Beuerlein would be a better comparison.  I think people forget how great Gannon was in Oakland.

Revisit this 2 years from now. Gannon had the opportunity to play with a good team and a genius as coach. Give Fitz these next couple of years to establish if he can be something like a Gannon. But 1st year compared to 1st year matches up. At Judging just off that Fitz has better numbers all around. BTW we all know how good Gannon is, we wouldn't be making the comparison if we thought he was a lesser Qb.

[nyjunc]

Revisit this 2 years from now. Gannon had the opportunity to play with a good team and a genius as coach. Give Fitz these next couple of years to establish if he can be something like a Gannon. But 1st year compared to 1st year matches up. At Judging just off that Fitz has better numbers all around. BTW we all know how good Gannon is, we wouldn't be making the comparison if we thought he was a lesser Qb.

Gannon did more w/ less.  I hope he turns into Oakland Gannon, I'd love nothing more than to get 3-4 years of this version of Fitz.  My point is more about how great gannon was and I think people forget how great he was in Oakland but I hope Fitz turns into him.

[Jetworks]

Hard to compare a QB who is playing in Pussified era like Fitz  vs Gannon who played in an era closer to real football. 

 

The rules are vastly different, Cannot breath on a QB these days.  When Gannon played QBs were allowed to be hit low, hit high and also well after the throw. It wasnt that long ago, but a pussy named Brady changed football forever

And this applies how exactly to the QB who, when he does slide, does so headfirst? Help me out here.

 

http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/22/ryan-fitzpatrick-helmet-off-hit-touchdown-texans/

[afosomf]

 

And this applies how exactly to the QB who, when he does slide, does so headfirst? Help me out here.

 

http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/22/ryan-fitzpatrick-helmet-off-hit-touchdown-texans/

How Fitzhuh slides has no relevance to the Pussified era he plays in.

[Jetsfan80]

False premise or maybe Im assuming you think any team can win with 15 points against Broncos since it was done yesterday?

Right now, on a message board like this one, Broncos fans are probably wondering how they could beat a team like ours in the postseason with Brock Osweiler as their QB. 

We have as much of a chance as anyone with the talent and coaching assembled.  With Dalton going down, The only teams in the AFC with scary offenses are New England and Pittsburgh.  Those are certainly the top 2 candidates to represent the conference in the Super Bowl in my eyes (though Pittsburgh has to GET to the postseason first, much like us).  But couldn't we be considered the 3rd or 4th most dangerous AFC team if we get in? 

[Integrity28]

False premise or maybe Im assuming you think any team can win with 15 points against Broncos since it was done yesterday?

No. Everything you have been griping about is based on a false premise regardless of me using the Oakland win as a proof point.

It's cool if you don't understand.

[Snell41]

Gannon did more w/ less.  I hope he turns into Oakland Gannon, I'd love nothing more than to get 3-4 years of this version of Fitz.  My point is more about how great gannon was and I think people forget how great he was in Oakland but I hope Fitz turns into him.

Before OAK?  Please elaborate.  Was it his illustrious 16 TD/16 INT performance in his 3rd year?  Or how about his awesome 10TD/6INT performance in year 10 before going to OAK?  Or how about his first season with OAK, going 8-8 with 24TD/14INT in year one with 3800 yds, all of which Fitz has or is on pace to surpass?  Because ironically Fitz has played the same amount of seasons before coming to NY as Gannon has pre-OAK.  And he's been vastly better than Gannon has up to the point, and is better overall in all stats and has at least matched Gannon's record thus far in his first season.  And frankly so long as Macc adds the right pieces and keeps the core together I certainly can see a situation where we could legitimately be a 12-4 team in year 2....with Fitz at the helm.  Has Fitz accomplished what Gannon has in an entire career?  No.  Is he certainly in a similar position and shown signs he could become dominant with time and the right pieces?  Absolutely.  To deny that is just bias argumentative nonsense.  Everything up the 11 seasons into their career comparatively shows Fitz has been better than Gannon to that point, and has shown the potential that he could be doing this at a high level for a few more years with solid talent around him.  Just like Gannon did when they added Rice and Garner to go along with HOF WR Tim Brown. 

[Jetworks]

How Fitzhuh slides has no relevance to the Pussified era he plays in.

Judging by your previous quotes it seemed that you implied that Fitz has it easier than Gannon due to the "era" that they played in. I suggested that the way Fitz plays, with little regard for his own well-being, makes your argument inapplicable. Further, I'd say there isn't a time I can recall Fitz having benefitted from any of these "pussified" rules. Still not seeing what I mean?

[afosomf]

Judging by your previous quotes it seemed that you implied that Fitz has it easier than Gannon due to the "era" that they played in. I suggested that the way Fitz plays, with little regard for his own well-being, makes your argument inapplicable. Further, I'd say there isn't a time I can recall Fitz having benefitted from any of these "pussified" rules. Still not seeing what I mean?

I guess you dont watch enough football to know that QB's are protected to the max, maybe you are spending too much time at the movies on sunday afternoons

[Jetworks]

I guess you dont watch enough football to know that QB's are protected to the max, maybe you are spending too much time at the movies on sunday afternoons

And I said that given Fitz's style of play, that protection falls by the wayside. But it's ok if you disagree. It's also cool that you can't formulate an intelligent response and instead resorted to trying to insult me, jerkoff. Conversation doesn't have to equate to an argument. 'Cept when it does, amirite?

[JohnnyLV]

No, like I said, there has to be skill on both ends of a completion though. Fitzpatrick showed serious signs of maturation and skill improvement last year with Houston, and that has carried over to this year. Marshall and Decker are without question the best pair of WRs he's had, but certainly not the only. He was throwing to Hopkins and Andre Johnson last year. He had Stevie Johnson in Buffalo. 

Nothing about the point I'm making suggests our other QBs wouldn't have benefited from top WRs too. 

I don't think you need to score 30 to beat Denver. Oakland was able to beat them this weekend scoring 15, no? 

I'm rooting for us to make the playoffs... I'm not sure what you're talking about with regards to people "fooling themselves". Anything can happen in the post-season, especially if our defense can stay healthy.

Be honest. How many passing plays do you see Fitz make where you think "wow that was just an awesome throw by Fitz"?

I do not see them. I see lots of questionable throws and decent throws to VERY open receivers. Was Devin Smith really bad or is Fitz just not able to fit it into tighter windows. He is a smart guy. He is very effective at scrambling. He understands the offense, and opposing defenses.

But COMPLETELY forgetting Geno, do you really think Fitz is performing that much better than any other journeyman would in this offense?

I do not. I think 90% of what we see is a function of Marshall, Gailey, dirt easty schedule, and dramatically better OL play. Throw Hasselback in there and he plays just as well if not better.

 

 

 

[Integrity28]

Be honest. How many passing plays do you see Fitz make where you think "wow that was just an awesome throw by Fitz"?

I do not see them. I see lots of questionable throws and decent throws to VERY open receivers. Was Devin Smith really bad or is Fitz just not able to fit it into tighter windows. He is a smart guy. He is very effective at scrambling. He understands the offense, and opposing defenses.

But COMPLETELY forgetting Geno, do you really think Fitz is performing that much better than any other journeyman would in this offense?

I do not. I think 90% of what we see is a function of Marshall, Gailey, dirt easty schedule, and dramatically better OL play. Throw Hasselback in there and he plays just as well if not better.

 

 

 

He's the only QB who has played for the Jets the last 10 or so years, not named Favre, that does give me a sick feeling in my stomach every time he drops back for a pass. With Sanchez, Clemens, late season Favre, late years of Penny, and Geno... all of them gave me a knot on every throw.

I don't care about the hypothetical outcomes that other "journeyman" QBs might have... I care that the Jets have found a guy that helps make it work, finally. We don't have Hasselbeck, we have Fitzpatrick. I'm not sitting here trying to convince anyone that Fitz is better than anyone. I'm sitting here appreciating that as part of the whole, he is taking us forward... not backward. He's what we have, and it's working. Normally when that is the circumstance, the outcomes is yet another season of unwatchable Jets football.

I don't know what you guys don't understand about that. It's been like 6 months of listening to the lot of you derp your way around with nothing but false premise, hypotheticals, and counterpoints to arguments nobody is making. It's really quite impressive that anyone could pump so much energy into something so irrelevant. At least when I bitched about Rex, I was right and provided the framework for the better late than never realization that he sucked, lol

[JohnnyLV]

He's the only QB who has played for the Jets the last 10 or so years, not named Favre, that does give me a sick feeling in my stomach every time he drops back for a pass. With Sanchez, Clemens, late season Favre, late years of Penny, and Geno... all of them gave me a knot on every throw.

I don't care about the hypothetical outcomes that other "journeyman" QBs might have... I care that the Jets have found a guy that helps make it work, finally. We don't have Hasselbeck, we have Fitzpatrick. I'm not sitting here trying to convince anyone that Fitz is better than anyone. I'm sitting here appreciating that as part of the whole, he is taking us forward... not backward. He's what we have, and it's working. Normally when that is the circumstance, the outcomes is yet another season of unwatchable Jets football.

I don't know what you guys don't understand about that. It's been like 6 months of listening to the lot of you derp your way around with nothing but false premise, hypotheticals, and counterpoints to arguments nobody is making. It's really quite impressive that anyone could pump so much energy into something so irrelevant. At least when I bitched about Rex, I was right and provided the framework for the better late than never realization that he sucked, lol

Quite simply, our success on offense is not because of Fitz. Period. It is what I believe. You believe different.

[pajet]

Be honest. How many passing plays do you see Fitz make where you think "wow that was just an awesome throw by Fitz"?

I do not see them. I see lots of questionable throws and decent throws to VERY open receivers. Was Devin Smith really bad or is Fitz just not able to fit it into tighter windows. He is a smart guy. He is very effective at scrambling. He understands the offense, and opposing defenses.

But COMPLETELY forgetting Geno, do you really think Fitz is performing that much better than any other journeyman would in this offense?

I do not. I think 90% of what we see is a function of Marshall, Gailey, dirt easty schedule, and dramatically better OL play. Throw Hasselback in there and he plays just as well if not better.

 

 

 

I see an average QB capable of making plays with quality skill players around him, which is an upgrade over what we have had.