Fitz's Stats (Chasing the Greatest QB Season in Jets History)

[Jet Nut]

 

For a guy who doesn't give a "shlt" you're spending a lot of time squatting.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fun waiting on what dumb assed argument you'll come up with.  You're arguing now because you just know I'll criticize Fitz in the future is a special kind of stupid argument.  Must be one of your powers from the dark side, lol

[jgb]

fun waiting on what dumb assed argument you'll come up with.  You're arguing now because you just know I'll criticize Fitz in the future is a special kind of stupid argument.  Must be one of your powers from the dark side, lol

Well if you fight so vehemently against a "dumb assed argument" I do not need a slide rule to extrapolate your reaction to a tiny silver of hope that you can vindicate yourself from your epic stink bomb of backing Geno.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CTM]

Being the tops Jet QB in history isn't exactly an NFL landmark, given we've had some of the worst Qb'ing in the history of the league post Namath.

Still.. it's been a great season and the team is on a roll and looking hot for the playoffs. I'm buying

[Lizard King]

Being the tops Jet QB in history isn't exactly an NFL landmark, given we've had some of the worst Qb'ing in the history of the league post Namath.

Still.. it's been a great season and the team is on a roll and looking hot for the playoffs. I'm buying

any jets QB that's even sniffing 4,000 passing yards is alright in my book. Last time that happened for us isn't even in recent memory. Maybe Favre?

[jack48]

he has removed the fear factor from watching Jet QBs.  He actually can find a secondary target.

[jack48]

the only real gripe i have with Fitz is that he gets too many damned passes blocked at the line.  Those can get ugly. We have been lucky so far.

[jgb]

any jets QB that's even sniffing 4,000 passing yards is alright in my book. Last time that happened for us isn't even in recent memory. Maybe Favre?

Geno was on pace for 4,000 yards 2 minutes into week 1 last year

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

Fitz's ability to scramble is literally infinitely better then Kenny's.

Agreed.  I think Fitz may be better than Kenny O already, but it's fair to ask for either a playoff victory or a couple years of solid production before putting him into the # 3 slot.

[JustInFudge]

Pretty amazing, really.  Can't believe it.  I don't think even the biggest Fitz supporters saw this coming.  And the fact that he's just such an easy guy to root for makes it that much better.  Especially considering the last 5-6 seasons.

Fitzmagic baby!  I'm a believer! 

[Warfish]

Agreed.  I think Fitz may be better than Kenny O already, but it's fair to ask for either a playoff victory or a couple years of solid production before putting him into the # 3 slot.

I hope I was clear that by "greatest" I was discussing single-season, NOT career.

There is no argument to be made for Fitz as the best ever Jets QB career-wise, obviously.

But I think there IS a reasonable argument to make, depending on this forthcoming game vs. Buffalo, that Fitz may in fact be the greatest single-season QB in Jets History.

Being the tops Jet QB in history isn't exactly an NFL landmark, given we've had some of the worst Qb'ing in the history of the league post Namath.

What do you mean "post Namath", his career overall is just as meh, with just as many glaring weaknesses and failings, as Kenny O, Vinny T or Chad P.

Namath escapes the "History of Bad Jets QB's" based on one thing and one one thing only, he won the Super Bowl.

Jets lose SBIII, Namath is remembered the same as any other also ran, and is not (IMO) an NFL HOF QB.

And you're right, our QB history is worse than alot of other teams, with only a few, often brief, brights spots (Namath, Kenny O, recycled Vinny, Chad pre-injury, now Fitz this year).

Still, when we have a year that surpasses our expectations, and even our most guarded hopes, from the QB position, nothing wrong with reveling in that surprise, right? 

[Jetsfan80]

 

I hope I was clear that by "greatest" I was discussing single-season, NOT career.

There is no argument to be made for Fitz as the best ever Jets QB career-wise, obviously.

But I think there IS a reasonable argument to make, depending on this forthcoming game vs. Buffalo, that Fitz may in fact be the greatest single-season QB in Jets History.

What do you mean "post Namath", his career overall is just as meh, with just as many glaring weaknesses and failings, as Kenny O, Vinny T or Chad P.

Namath escapes the "History of Bad Jets QB's" based on one thing and one one thing only, he won the Super Bowl.

Jets lose SBIII, Namath is remembered the same as any other also ran, and is not (IMO) an NFL HOF QB.

And you're right, our QB history is worse than alot of other teams, with only a few, often brief, brights spots (Namath, Kenny O, recycled Vinny, Chad pre-injury, now Fitz this year).

Still, when we have a year that surpasses our expectations, and even our most guarded hopes, from the QB position, nothing wrong with reveling in that surprise, right? 

If you're only looking at Namath through the prism of comparing his numbers then to QB numbers now, it's easy to come to that conclusion.

But playing in an era when basically every throw were deep passes with high risk/reward, and CB's were allowed to mug receivers, those conclusions regarding Namath are much different.  He was an elite QB in the NFL for the majority of his career.  Compare his numbers to his peers during those years if you'd like.

[Savage69]

 

Actually, it was.  Martin's first season with the Jets was 1998.

He wasn't a first ballot HOF'er he didn't get in his first year so no he wasn't..

[GimmeShelter]

There is nothing wrong with being wrong.

To this day I wear a Patrick Ramsey Jets jersey.  I truly believed Ramsey had just been misused and abused in DC, and if given a chance would be a franchise QB in New York.

I was deeply and obviously wrong.

It happens.  We all have our biases and hard-held opinions, but really, I just can't see how even the most jaded Jets Fan could not be wallowing in enjoyment of a season that has, and could, surpass every previous season in our history in terms of production.

 

LOL.....I remember those days. Skins fans and DC area residents felt Spurrier had ruined him. I remember Skins message boards claiming they'd get a #1 or 2 for him in a trade.   Admittedly, he did look promising his first year or two in Washington but never grew as a QB.

 

Grateful for what Fitz has done this year as he brings an air of professionalism to the position that we have lacked for the past 5 or 6 seasons.

He does miss some easy throws like yesterday but as mentioned, never quits. I think Jif or 80 pointed out that the 2015 Jets are a team that you just cannot help rooting for Fitz and Marshall to have some success.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Who was the first ballot HOF'er it wasn't Martin..

Only a true Martinette would know that.

[SoFlaJets]

I'd like to see the Jets re-sign him and him be our starting QB for the next 4 years and then hand it over to Bryce Petty who b y that time will have learned from ONE OF the smartest QB to ever play the game. He's only 33 right now 5 years younger than Brady.

[Savage69]

Only a true Martinette would know that.

Only one that knows the truth about what the Martinette's post would..

[afosomf]

 

I hope I was clear that by "greatest" I was discussing single-season, NOT career.

There is no argument to be made for Fitz as the best ever Jets QB career-wise, obviously.

But I think there IS a reasonable argument to make, depending on this forthcoming game vs. Buffalo, that Fitz may in fact be the greatest single-season QB in Jets History.

What do you mean "post Namath", his career overall is just as meh, with just as many glaring weaknesses and failings, as Kenny O, Vinny T or Chad P.

Namath escapes the "History of Bad Jets QB's" based on one thing and one one thing only, he won the Super Bowl.

Jets lose SBIII, Namath is remembered the same as any other also ran, and is not (IMO) an NFL HOF QB.

And you're right, our QB history is worse than alot of other teams, with only a few, often brief, brights spots (Namath, Kenny O, recycled Vinny, Chad pre-injury, now Fitz this year).

Still, when we have a year that surpasses our expectations, and even our most guarded hopes, from the QB position, nothing wrong with reveling in that surprise, right? 

this whole post cannot be serious, you prob never saw Namath play a game. The game was brutal back then, No rules to protect QBs, Wrs were mugged. To compare what fitz has done (BTW the easiest schedule jets have ever had) to what Namath did, is utter nonsense. Most of todays QBS would be blown up after 1 yr.

[Pac]

Being the tops Jet QB in history isn't exactly an NFL landmark, given we've had some of the worst Qb'ing in the history of the league post Namath.

Still.. it's been a great season and the team is on a roll and looking hot for the playoffs. I'm buying

this thread is cringe worthy on many levels.

Fitz was about to get benched a month and a half ago before running into a bunch of the worst passing D's in the league and a Pats team with half their roster out.  Not sure why people can't be happy without the extreme hyperbole and silly declarations. 

He's making smart decisions, playing good football, and passing to a top WR combo in the NFL.  That's what's happening..  he didn't turn into Johnny Unitas in early Nov.

If the WR's were still Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Chaz Schillens etc we would most certainly NOT be talking about backing up the brinks truck for Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Normally these threads don't bother me but the mass idolization that's going on yesterday and today is just too much. 

 

[southparkcpa]

Fitz:

Is 319 for 525, 60.7%, 3,724 Yards, 29 TD's, 12 INT's.

He is tied for #1 All-Time for TD Passes at 29.

He is #4 All-Time for Passing Yards at 3,724, sitting 283 yards passing behind Joe Namath for #1 All-Time.

He is #3 All-Time for Completions, sitting 24 Completions behind Brett Favre for #1 All-Time.

If he were to somehow repeat his stats from today, next week vs. Buffalo, he would be the Jets Franchise #1 in Completions, Passing Yards and TD passes, and tied for #2 All-Time for Wins for a Starting QB.

He's also #5 All-Time in QB Rushing Yards.  Lol.

Oh, and he'll have only played 15 games (having missed literally all of Oakland).

The only years that match him are Joe Namath in 1967, and Ken O'Brien in 1985.

fitzpatrick is the 2nd best jets qb ever. just let that sink in because its the truth. He is the second best jets qb ever

Simply mind boggling.  I am so Giddy this morning. I wore a JETS shirt to my office, I am friggin pumped.

the game has changed, 16 games vs 14 etc.. BUT there is simply no debating it. Fitz has played well, almost quietly.

[southparkcpa]

this thread is cringe worthy on many levels.

Fitz was about to get benched a month and a half ago before running into a bunch of the worst passing D's in the league and a Pats team with half their roster out.  Not sure why people can't be happy without the extreme hyperbole and silly declarations. 

He's making smart decisions, playing good football, and passing to a top WR combo in the NFL.  That's what's happening..  he didn't turn into Johnny Unitas in early Nov.

If the WR's were still Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Chaz Schillens etc we would most certainly NOT be talking about backing up the brinks truck for Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Normally these threads don't bother me but the mass idolization that's going on yesterday and today is just too much. 

 

Absolutely but thats 1/2 the battle.  The NFL can be won with GOOD QB play, not great. 

I have screamed on this site and JI that management is more important than players.  

What MacCagnon, Bowles and Gailey have done is MVP worthy.

 

Put in a system that your players can play in. REX didnt do this in Buffalo, thats why he sucks.

[Jetsfan80]

Fitz was about to get benched a month and a half ago before running into a bunch of the worst passing D's in the league and a Pats team with half their roster out. 

Link?

As I remember it, Fitz hurt his hand, yet they rushed him back onto the field, even having him play 9 days after surgery, because Geno can't be trusted with nice things.  The coaching staff patently disagrees with this assertion you are making. 

[Warfish]

Not sure why people can't be happy without the extreme hyperbole and silly declarations. 

Stats don't lie my friend.  

I appreciate Jets Fans are the most self-loathing in the NFL, and nothing ever makes them happy, but Fitz IS having the greatest season of a Jets QB in history.  Embrace it, or deny it if you like, but the record books care little.  If Fitz has a good game Sunday, when you look up all-time jets leaders, it's going to be Fitz.  Not Namath.

And certainly not your guy Geno "Worst Starting QB in NFL" Smith.

As for Namath, no I never saw him play, and no, I don't hold him in nearly the same Godlike respect most elderly Jets fans do.  I am with almost all NFL analysts on this one, who think Joe was good for his era, but not great, is more famous for his guarantee and uber-flamboyant personality off the field than the quality of his play on the field, and that he is in the Hall not for his play, but for his effect on the NFL game and for winning SBIII so flamboyantly, thus "legitimizing" the AFL.

Namath is to me what Martin is to Savage.  Glad he was Jet, glad he won a title before I was born, but not an all-time great IMO, and not my idol given I'm not in my 60's.  I'm well aware this is one of my least popular Jets-related opinions.

[jgb]

Link?

As I remember it, Fitz hurt his hand, yet they rushed him back onto the field, even having him play 9 days after surgery, because Geno can't be trusted with nice things.

Naw Bowles was just afraid to look dumb when Geno came in and tosses 6 TDs.

[Pac]

Absolutely but thats 1/2 the battle.  The NFL can be won with GOOD QB play, not great. 

I have screamed on this site and JI that management is more important than players.  

What MacCagnon, Bowles and Gailey have done is MVP worthy.

 

Put in a system that your players can play in. REX didnt do this in Buffalo, thats why he sucks.

And that's what we're getting..  Good QB play. 

And I agree what Mac, Bowles, and Gailey are doing is great stuff but not sure why people bring Rex into the equation.  Until proven otherwise (hopefully this year) Rex, Tanny, and Sanchez have still had much, much more success with the Jets than todays team.  It's ok to recognize that but still be happy we have a new regime. 

 

[Savage69]

Stats don't lie my friend.  

I appreciate Jets Fans are the most self-loathing in the NFL, and nothing ever makes them happy, but Fitz IS having the greatest season of a Jets QB in history.  Embrace it, or deny it if you like, but the record books care little.  If Fitz has a good game Sunday, when you look up all-time jets leaders, it's going to be Fitz.  Not Namath.

And certainly not your guy Geno "Worst Starting QB in NFL" Smith.

As for Namath, no I never saw him play, and no, I don't hold him in nearly the same Godlike respect most elderly Jets fans do.  I am with almost all NFL analysts on this one, who think Joe was good for his era, but not great, is more famous for his guarantee and uber-flamboyant personality off the field than the quality of his play on the field, and that he is in the Hall not for his play, but for his effect on the NFL game and for winning SBIII so flamboyantly, thus "legitimizing" the AFL.

Namath is to me what Martin is to Savage.  Glad he was Jet, but not an all-time great IMO.

Well winning a Super Bowl is better then 14 yds rushing in a AFCCG most would think.. Plus Namath played in a era with different rules that didn't favor the offense yet wearing knee braces he managed 7 rushing td's where Kenny O had zero..

[Pac]

Stats don't lie my friend.  

I appreciate Jets Fans are the most self-loathing in the NFL, and nothing ever makes them happy, but Fitz IS having the greatest season of a Jets QB in history.  Embrace it, or deny it if you like, but the record books care little.  If Fitz has a good game Sunday, when you look up all-time jets leaders, it's going to be Fitz.  Not Namath.

And certainly not your guy Geno "Worst Starting QB in NFL" Smith.

As for Namath, no I never saw him play, and no, I don't hold him in nearly the same Godlike respect most elderly Jets fans do.  I am with almost all NFL analysts on this one, who think Joe was good for his era, but not great, is more famous for his guarantee and uber-flamboyant personality off the field than the quality of his play on the field, and that he is in the Hall not for his play, but for his effect on the NFL game and for winning SBIII so flamboyantly, thus "legitimizing" the AFL.

Namath is to me what Martin is to Savage.  Glad he was Jet, but not an all-time great IMO.

Do you think Fitzpatricks statistical output would be comparable with any of the WR combos we've trotted out since Toon and Walker?  I don't.

I'm not even talking about Namath..  I don't think Fitz is better than Kenny O, Chad, Favre off the top of my head.  Here's an article from a couple weeks ago that still applies...  I think Fitz is playing great ball but he's certainly not deserving of the accolades being thrown around since yesterday:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Jets want to commit to each other long-term

By Jared Dubin | Staff Writer

 

December 16, 2015 10:43 am ET

 

 

A few months ago, the Jets didn't think Ryan Fitzpatrick was good enough to start over Geno Smith. One punch (From IK Enemkpali to Geno's jaw) and eight wins later, they appear to be sold that Fitzpatrick is good enough to keep around.

 

 

 

Head coach Todd Bowles has publicly stated that he wants Fitzpatrick back in green next season, and based on his comments to the New York Post on Tuesday, it seems like he believes that Fitzpatrick has turned some sort of corner in his career.

“He's had success in this league -- maybe not this consistent, but he's had success -- and he's at peace with himself,” Bowles said. “I think he's doing things a lot better. I think he's a lot calmer. I think he's not trying to win games by himself, mainly. Obviously, he has talent around him to do some of those things, but most quarterbacks do."

Fitzpatrick is 33 years old and now in his 11th season, but that doesn't seem to bother Bowles. “Guys find homes at different places at different times in their career, and now is his time,” he said.

As for Fitzpatrick's feelings on sticking with the Jets? “I'd love to be back,” he said.

Look... just three weeks ago, Fitzpatrick was in a place where he felt he needed to publicly advocate for himself to keep his starting job. But now that he's thrown for 930 yards and 9 touchdowns against the 31st, 25th, and 21st-ranked passing defenses over the last three games, the two sides think it's wise to arrange a longer-term marriage? That seems hasty.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Jets: together forever? (USATSI)

 

 

Fitzpatrick is a journeyman who has had the likes of the Rams, Bengals, Bills, Titans, and Texans come to the realization that he's not the quarterback for them. Four of those five teams came to that conclusion within two years. Only the Bills stuck with Fitz longer than that.

Why have those teams all reached the same conclusion? Well, because Fitzpatrick's stretches of good play have never lasted all that long (note Bowles alluding to his inconsistent successes), and over larger samples, he's been a clearly below-average quarterback.

Fitzpatrick has thrown at least 200 passes and made at least eight starts in every season since 2008. In that time, his teams have gone 41-57-1 in his starts as he has completed 60.32 percent of his passes for 6.71 yards per attempt. Over that same span, he's been intercepted on 3.23 percent of his pass attempts and recorded a quarterback rating of 81.8. Every single one of those figures (winning percentage, completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception percentage, and QB rating) ranks dead last among the 14 quarterbacks that have thrown at least 3,000 passes since 2008, per Pro-Football-Reference.

Yes, his 2015 numbers look better than that. But until this recent three-game stretch, Fitzpatrick had completed 58.39 percent of his passes for 6.83 yards per attempt, been intercepted on 3.41 percent of his passes and had a QB rating of 81.5 through 10 games. In other words, he had been Ryan Fitzpatrick. But hey, he's succeeded against a few bad pass defenses over the last three weeks.

The Jets are 8-5 and have a decent shot at making the playoffs. For a team that had a poor enough record to pick sixth in the draft last season, that's great progress. They should be proud. But it's important to note that they've done this against the NFL's fourth-easiest schedule (per Pro-Football-Reference's Simple Rating System) this season -- one in which the AFC East has luckily been pitted against the dregs of the AFC South and NFC East. Given the track record of both team and player, it seems likely they'll both regress a bit against a tougher slate next year. Fitzpatrick works fine as a stopgap, but as many teams before the Jets have discovered, it's unwise to count on him as any more than that.

[Jetsfan80]

And that's what we're getting..  Good QB play. 

And what's wrong with that?  Why do you keep moving the goalposts of this argument and attempt to destroy anyone's joy at comparing his numbers to other good QB's in franchise history?

It's been a long time since we've had Good QB play.  No need to be a wet blanket on this one because you were dead wrong.

[Jetsfan80]

The Jets are 8-5 and have a decent shot at making the playoffs. For a team that had a poor enough record to pick sixth in the draft last season, that's great progress. They should be proud. But it's important to note that they've done this against the NFL's fourth-easiest schedule (per Pro-Football-Reference's Simple Rating System) this season -- one in which the AFC East has luckily been pitted against the dregs of the AFC South and NFC East. Given the track record of both team and player, it seems likely they'll both regress a bit against a tougher slate next year. Fitzpatrick works fine as a stopgap, but as many teams before the Jets have discovered, it's unwise to count on him as any more than that.

^^^ From that article you posted.

Does this quote not seem meaningless now that we beat the 12-win Patriots, with his play being a big reason why?  This "regression" did not show up last week.  What else does he need to prove to you to suggest he deserves an extension?  What QB are you replacing him with if we let him walk?

[bostonmajet]

The Jets are 8-5 and have a decent shot at making the playoffs. For a team that had a poor enough record to pick sixth in the draft last season, that's great progress. They should be proud. But it's important to note that they've done this against the NFL's fourth-easiest schedule (per Pro-Football-Reference's Simple Rating System) this season -- one in which the AFC East has luckily been pitted against the dregs of the AFC South and NFC East. Given the track record of both team and player, it seems likely they'll both regress a bit against a tougher slate next year. Fitzpatrick works fine as a stopgap, but as many teams before the Jets have discovered, it's unwise to count on him as any more than that.

I wonder if it is the opposite; are Fitz and the offense continuing to gel? Maybe they play better next year?  Maybe our young WRs step up even more giving Fitz 4 WRs to throw to?

[Pac]

And what's wrong with that?  Why do you keep moving the goalposts of this argument and attempt to destroy anyone's joy at comparing his numbers to other good QB's in franchise history?

It's been a long time since we've had Good QB play.  No need to be a wet blanket on this one because you were dead wrong.

I called Fitzpatrick as soon as Gailey mentioned as a possible OC and was advocating it for weeks before it happened.  I was happy when we finally did get him as we finally had a competent backup.  I figured Geno would start which both Bowels and Gailey quickly stated would be the case.

When Geno got knocked out I was ticked off but at no point did I ever say it was now a lost season or Fitz was incapable of winning.  With this D and these WRs I still expected us to win.

I've maintained that Fitz would be up and down and possibly get benched which is exactly what happened until a nice run that started about a month ago against some horrible pass defenses.

If that's dead wrong then I guess I was.

[southparkcpa]

And what's wrong with that?  Why do you keep moving the goalposts of this argument and attempt to destroy anyone's joy at comparing his numbers to other good QB's in franchise history?

It's been a long time since we've had Good QB play.  No need to be a wet blanket on this one because you were dead wrong.

Im always fearful that the Eagles game FITZ will show up.  Lets beat REX next week.

[Jetsfan80]

I've maintained that Fitz would be up and down and possibly get benched which is exactly what happened until a nice run that started about a month ago against some horrible pass defenses.

If that's dead wrong then I guess I was.

Yes, it is wrong, because his play NEVER got him benched, only an injury did.  The coaching staff has shown no indication since Geno got punched that they wanted to sit Fitz down.  None whatsoever.  No QB who is playing at a level of "Good" gets benched these days.  And since Fitz has exceeded even my expectations of "Average or slightly above average" by comparison, there's no chance anything you said above matches the truth of the situation.  Anyone who has advocated for Geno to start once games began this season are in the "wrong" camp.  And that's ok.  But you're not allowed to come strutting back in here acting like this is what you expected out of Fitz.  It's nothing close to what you expected. 

[Jetsfan80]

Im always fearful that the Eagles game FITZ will show up.  Lets beat REX next week.

Every QB has a few games a season they wish they could get back.  Luckily those have been few and far between, and Fitz's play has improved over the course of the season.  No reason to be afraid.  Yes, Rex has done fairly well against Fitz over the years.  I think he bucks that trend this Sunday.

[Jetsfan80]

Pac, it's also fairly sad that you call it "cringe worthy" for people to be supporting our GOOD QB.  The horror!  I guess we're all supposed to defend bad QB's like Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith equally, right?

You also haven't stated who you'd like us to start at QB next season if we let Fitz walk.  Please say Geno so I can ignore you the rest of the season.

[afosomf]

Stats don't lie my friend.  

I appreciate Jets Fans are the most self-loathing in the NFL, and nothing ever makes them happy, but Fitz IS having the greatest season of a Jets QB in history.  Embrace it, or deny it if you like, but the record books care little.  If Fitz has a good game Sunday, when you look up all-time jets leaders, it's going to be Fitz.  Not Namath.

And certainly not your guy Geno "Worst Starting QB in NFL" Smith.

As for Namath, no I never saw him play, and no, I don't hold him in nearly the same Godlike respect most elderly Jets fans do.  I am with almost all NFL analysts on this one, who think Joe was good for his era, but not great, is more famous for his guarantee and uber-flamboyant personality off the field than the quality of his play on the field, and that he is in the Hall not for his play, but for his effect on the NFL game and for winning SBIII so flamboyantly, thus "legitimizing" the AFL.

Namath is to me what Martin is to Savage.  Glad he was Jet, glad he won a title before I was born, but not an all-time great IMO, and not my idol given I'm not in my 60's.  I'm well aware this is one of my least popular Jets-related opinions.

Namath would have lit up the pats secondary with 4 TDs and 450 yds, there would have been no overtime. If you watched Namath play and in that era, you would know greatness.