Extend Fitz NOW

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Let's enjoy the good will and chemistry for a while and win a few games before considering a new contract for Mr Fitzpatrick, I think Mac caved but I don't think it was a bad decision (we all have to cave sometimes or be single/unemployed, etc.) i am just not sure if it was good decision yet and the first 8 games should let us know if it was life support or a good move for the future of the franchise. An extension on the other hand could be very bad...

If the Jets waited for mid-season, a new contract could provide a boost and/or save future cap if Fitzpatrick play exceeds that of the team if he really is ascending his QB play as he mentioned in his presser

6-2 vs 2-6 should result in different contract numbers, it will be interesting to revisit in October

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Hey Slats you were in the camp complaining about the tough schedule so if this football team is not good enough to win with this so called tough schedule it wont only be about the QB I hope you know that .

Also it didn't matter what other teams thought and it didn't matter that Bowles made the Fitz starter comments. The Jets wanted this and just about evey team in the NFL knew Fitz was the right fit here. There are numerous reasons why Fitz was not made offers by other teams most having to do with age, some having to do with the combination of age and having to learn a new system and others having to do with the fact some teams were just outright rebuilding ... In all those circumstances Fitz was not a good answer. This was not just about the player and pretty much everyone knew Fitz would be coming here in the 10 - 12 mil range long before these negotiations started.

Fitz is going to be a good QB for this team for the next couple of years while Petty and Hack develop and its nice to have that luxury for once. With the added check downs and emerging talent we have signed I think Fitz will continue to improve and do better than last year. For various reasons Fitz didn't really start playing at a high level until mid season and at that point most here wanted Fitz extended and were talking bigger numbers in some cases than Fitz actually got yet somehow that all changed when both the team and Fitz had a subpar game vs Buffalo. Bad games happen and they happen to HOF fame QB's just as much as they happen to good or even mediocre QB's There's a reason why a guy like Peyton Manning had only 1 SB win before going to the Broncos and he had plenty of terrible Playoff games. A lot of things have to come together to win a SB and sometimes its a timing issue and when teams get hot down the stretch. Sometimes you run into an elite defense and no matter who your QB is he and the team more often than not get shut down.

Hopefully this year we have that elite defense and things go our way because this team is good enough to win a SB. we have very few weaknesses and even though people complain about the Oline we still ran the ball well last year when our backs were healthy and having a QB who gets rid of the ball quick helped in pass protection no reason to expect that does not Improve with the major additions to our back field and the young receivers we added to compete. This team WILL contend for a SB this year I'm sure of it.

Just one thing to add to that about no other offers. There was one from Denver but it was reportedly a 1-7 deal. And that's also the same amount Elway was willing to give to Kap. They picked up the second year of Mark's inexpensive Philly deal and I guess their plan is to minimize the Qb position and be a defense first team like they were last year. I think the key reason for no other reported offers was there are no jobs. Most teams are committed to starters and these guys are on contracts. This could change in a year or even during the 2016 season if there are injuries. The market will open. The idea of not negotiating and staying on one offer to me is pretty dumb. As is a take it or leave it. Salaries are not determined only by supply and demand which is a temporary variable esp in the world of starting Qbs. Compared to other positions there aren't that many of them or too many players who can do that job. So when the jobs are filled there just isn't any market. If you read what Fitz said after he signed he basically stated he wasn't going to sign that 3-24. It was the point of contention even over salary. The Jets all along were trying to pull a power play and get him to sign an unfair deal. He wasn't going to do it. Of course we never know what would have happened if this had stretched out. But no one forced Mac to give him that 1-12 offer. They wanted Fitz and it was obvious when they passed on signing other Qbs. And the Jets got a good deal and structured it in a team friendly way,. They can go forward next year if Fitz is not the answer in 2017. And Fitz can negotiate with another team if he wants to. Nobody caved in. A fair transaction.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Let's enjoy the good will and chemistry for a while and win a few games before considering a new contract for Mr Fitzpatrick, I think Mac caved but I don't think it was a bad decision (we all have to cave sometimes or be single/unemployed, etc.) i am just not sure if it was good decision yet and the first 8 games should let us know if it was life support or a good move for the future of the franchise. An extension on the other hand could be very bad...

If the Jets waited for mid-season, a new contract could provide a boost and/or save future cap if Fitzpatrick play exceeds that of the team if he really is ascending his QB play as he mentioned in his presser

6-2 vs 2-6 should result in different contract numbers, it will be interesting to revisit in October

Mac never really caved he was always offering 12 mil for the first year from the beginning. Fitz said Im not signing for a back up salary in years 2 and 3 and that was the sticking point. So Macc Finally said ok to the one year 12 mil. Im not sure how that's caving when Mac was trying to get Fitz on the cheap for years 2 and 3 and Fitz said give me a 1 year deal and Ill prove last year was not a fluke.

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Mac never really caved he was always offering 12 mil for the first year from the beginning. Fitz said Im not signing for a back up salary in years 2 and 3 and that was the sticking point. So Macc Finally said ok to the one year 12 mil. Im not sure how that's caving when Mac was trying to get Fitz on the cheap for years 2 and 3 and Fitz said give me a 1 year deal and Ill prove last year was not a fluke.

After seven months of one offer Mac knew he wasn't going to sign Fitz with that 3 year deal. What would have been Fitz's future this season if he didn't sign that contract. Who knows but not very much security, he would have probably had to wait until later in training camp or during the regular season to get a job. And for less money. Who wants to do that esp when he all along wanted to return to the Jets. Would Fitz have caved in later in training camp? Maybe and taken that guaranteed 15 mil but it looks like he wasn't ever going to sign it. Mac reportedly did not offer him that one year only contract until this past Wed. afternoon. He jumped on it then and signed it by 7 pm. He was willing to sign that same deal two months ago. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

16 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Mac never really caved he was always offering 12 mil for the first year from the beginning. Fitz said Im not signing for a back up salary in years 2 and 3 and that was the sticking point. So Macc Finally said ok to the one year 12 mil. Im not sure how that's caving when Mac was trying to get Fitz on the cheap for years 2 and 3 and Fitz said give me a 1 year deal and Ill prove last year was not a fluke.

I think Mac wanted Fitz locked up for 3 years to mentor the young QB's after one of them hopefully wins the job and provide insurance if no one steps up - I think this would have been an ideal situation for the Jets

I agree a one year deal is a good compromise and the phantom second year fits with the cap this year but next year Mac could have 5m in dead cap space with no clear starting QB (or pay Fitz 50m), and I struggle to think that's an option he wanted, hence the cave or compromise... 

[Warfish]

On 7/30/2016 at 8:06 AM, slats said:

Yeah, major concern that, some other owner bidding Fitz up. Guy didn't get a single offer. Only team that bid him up was the Jets. 

A Moderator necro's a 1/2 year old thread to do a half assed "told you so"?

Lol, desperate much?  The butthurt over Fitz's signing is just sad.

He wanted 12/year, he got 12/year.  Jets wanted three years, Fitz wanted one, Fitz got one.  

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I think Mac wanted Fitz locked up for 3 years to mentor the young QB's after one of them hopefully wins the job and provide insurance if no one steps up

I agree a one year deal is a good compromise and the phantom second year makes fits with the cap this year but next year Mac could have 5m in dead cap space with no clear starting QB, and I struggle to think that's an option he wanted, hence the cave or compromise... 

You don't have to pay somebody 6 mil per season to be a mentor. You can get somebody better and more experienced at that job than Fitz for much much cheaper. The two years was to be an inexpensive insurance policy for Mac and Woody in case Hack wasn't ready to start. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You don't have to pay somebody 6 mil per season to be a mentor. You can get somebody better and more experienced at that job than Fitz for much much cheaper. The two years was to be an inexpensive insurance policy for Mac and Woody in case Hack wasn't ready to start. 

True, but it is not crazy money for a good backup QB especially considering the amount of respect that Fitz has in the locker room, that leadership could have gone a long way to help Geno, Hack or Petty develop as a QB, but it seems like Fitz considers himself a starting QB that is getting better, not one nearing the end of his career...  we will see

 

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

True, but it is not crazy money for a good backup QB especially considering the amount of respect that Fitz has in the locker room, that leadership could have gone a long way to help Geno, Hack or Petty develop as a QB, but it seems like Fitz considers himself a starting QB that is getting better, not one nearing the end of his career...  we will see

 

He's a starting Qb and 12 mil is way below average for a starting Qb. And it's only a one year deal which does not tie up the org with an older Qb if they want to start a younger guy. 6 mil per is decent money for a backup. Like he said the other day he was willing to give up guaranteed money and bet on himself for 2017-18. 

[slats]

It's funny how the people who don't want to hear "excuses" (the easy schedule, particularly easy defenses, opponents' injuries) about why Fitz had a career year where he still couldn't complete 60% of his passes, but love to make excuses as to why he was still a free agent on the eve of training camp. The reason is that he's viewed league-wide as a replacement level starter/solid backup. It's that simple. If he was viewed as a legitimate starter, he'd've gotten offers. The only one he allegedly got (Denver, 1/$7M), was never confirmed anywhere, it was only rumored. That was maybe the best offer he got, and Mac nearly doubled it. Please don't tell me Mac didn't cave, he caved. 

I want to be optimistic, but I'm instead concerned. Forte is an upgrade as a receiving threat, but a downgrade as a rushing threat from the tackle-breaking Ivory. I expect defenses to focus on taking the short/medium passes away from the Jets. Tons of zone blitzes, and disguised/mixed coverages designed to disrupt the pre-snap reads Fitzpatrick relies upon. Rex Ryan supplied a blueprint in not one, but two games last year. But hey, this is what the fans wanted. The players like Fitz better than Geno (no surprise there, who doesn't?). Hopefully it works out the way the Fitz optimists believe it will. 

[pointman]

13 hours ago, jetrider said:

So you extend the choke artist that ended the biggest game of his life by throwing two INTs in his last three throws?

I wasn't for it.

[jetrider]

9 hours ago, pointman said:

I wasn't for it.

Sorry, I'll reimburse you.

[jgb]

On 7/31/2016 at 8:14 AM, ylekram said:

look slats, I still consider you one of the better, intelligent posters on this board. nothing has changed in that respect. but when you say that Fitzpatrick didn't have any leverage and that the jets were not uncomfortable starting geno, well you were wrong. don't say that mac caved. if fitz had caved to the offered contract, you would have said it was because mac had the leverage and wasn't afraid to start geno.. but that's not what happened. mac caved because of fitzpatricks leverage(fear of starting geno smith). you were wrong on both accounts. just admit this and lets move on. and lol at those applauding mac for setting a deadline. some deadline. after 6 months of negotiating, mac tells fitz he will offer the contract that fitz wants only if he signs it by 7pm

you sir are amazing

[jgb]

23 hours ago, jetrider said:

So you extend the choke artist that ended the biggest game of his life by throwing two INTs in his last three throws?

Thank God actual football professionals don't make football decisions based on a sample size of half a football game.

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

A Moderator necro's a 1/2 year old thread to do a half assed "told you so"?

Lol, desperate much?  The butthurt over Fitz's signing is just sad.

He wanted 12/year, he got 12/year.  Jets wanted three years, Fitz wanted one, Fitz got one.  

Wonder how long it took to find a post of mine that was 99, instead of 100%, spot on.

[jetrider]

35 minutes ago, jgb said:

Wonder how long it took to find a post of mine that was 99, instead of 100%, spot on.

One nanosecond to find one of yours that is 100% wrong. See below:

35 minutes ago, jgb said:

Thank God actual football professionals don't make football decisions based on a sample size of half a football game.

Some players are cut after one botched play. Ask Brandon Bostick.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, jetrider said:

One nanosecond to find one of yours that is 100% wrong. See below:

Some players are cut after one botched play. Ask Brandon Bostick.

I know a high school RB who was cut after he flunked Geometry.

[Warfish]

23 hours ago, slats said:

I want to be optimistic

Lol, right.

23 hours ago, slats said:

Hopefully it works out the way the Fitz optimists believe it will. 

Don't you mean hopefully it works out the way Macc and Bowles and Chan hope and believe it can.

"Fitz Optimists" didn't sign Fitz.  The Jets did.  Despite having a cheap and available Geno staring them in the face.

[Lizard King]

Fitz optimist...is that a "catch-all" for  'Anyone who thought that we didn't have any other viable options?' - I guess I am in the club.

[slats]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lol, right.

Don't you mean hopefully it works out the way Macc and Bowles and Chan hope and believe it can.

"Fitz Optimists" didn't sign Fitz.  The Jets did.  Despite having a cheap and available Geno staring them in the face.

I think Mac and Bowles believe that signing Fitz is the wise PR choice. That the fans' reactions to a 7-9 season with Geno vs. a 7-9 season with Fitz would be completely different. Fans would be looking for heads to roll if Geno QB's that record, but will shrug it off behind Fitz. That, imho, was the driving force behind capitulating on the contract. 

I think Fitz is an easy QB for good teams to defend against. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I think Mac and Bowles believe that signing Fitz is the wise PR choice. That the fans' reactions to a 7-9 season with Geno vs. a 7-9 season with Fitz would be completely different. Fans would be looking for heads to roll if Geno QB's that record, but will shrug it off behind Fitz. That, imho, was the driving force behind capitulating on the contract. 

Or they think Fitzpatrick's the better QB.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Or they think Fitzpatrick's the better QB.

They probably do. I do. I just don't think he's anywhere close to $12M better. 

[Adoni Beast]

Fitz's future with this team depends on how much longer Brandon Marshall and Decker are highly productive, and how our running game is. We know he's not carrying any team, but with a well balanced team, he's good for us.

I obviously hope Fitz has a season that mirrors last (i doubt it), and we can re-sign him for next two seasons. 2016, 2017, and 2018 are our years to use our veterans and try and contend, all the while develop our youth and depth.

I'd love Hackenberg and Petty to learn under Fitz and hopefully one of them is ready to start by 2018. 2018 I doubt Revis, Mangold, Brandon Marshall, Decker will be here. It'll be a whole new team. 

If Fitz completely collapses this year with this talent, then clearly theres no need to bring him back. But, I think he'll be good enough for us to want him back for following two years.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

They probably do. I do. I just don't think he's anywhere close to $12M better. 

At that position it hardly matters. It's the difference between an obvious starting caliber player vs a backup. Fitzpatricks contract is on the low end for starting QB's.

[Tinstar]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

I think Mac and Bowles believe that signing Fitz is the wise PR choice. That the fans' reactions to a 7-9 season with Geno vs. a 7-9 season with Fitz would be completely different. Fans would be looking for heads to roll if Geno QB's that record, but will shrug it off behind Fitz. That, imho, was the driving force behind capitulating on the contract. 

I think Fitz is an easy QB for good teams to defend against. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. 

That is a sad commentary on a Franchise .

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

At that position it hardly matters. It's the difference between an obvious starting caliber player vs a backup. Fitzpatricks contract is on the low end for starting QB's.

If Fitzpatrick was an obvious starting caliber player, he wouldn't've still been a free agent last week. 

But whatever. He's here. He's the Jets starting QB. He's getting paid. There's really not much more to say on the subject. 

[whodeawhodat]

35 minutes ago, slats said:

I think Mac and Bowles believe that signing Fitz is the wise PR choice. That the fans' reactions to a 7-9 season with Geno vs. a 7-9 season with Fitz would be completely different. Fans would be looking for heads to roll if Geno QB's that record, but will shrug it off behind Fitz. That, imho, was the driving force behind capitulating on the contract. 

I think Fitz is an easy QB for good teams to defend against. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. 

The best PR move would be for the Jets to win football games.  I think the 7-9 scenario season feels the same for Jets fans either way just like a 10-6 season feels the same way for either QB.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I think Mac and Bowles believe that signing Fitz is the wise PR choice.

Of course you do.  Because NFL GM's and Head Coaches often choose PR over on-field production from the most vital position on the field, right?

Quote

That the fans' reactions to a 7-9 season with Geno vs. a 7-9 season with Fitz would be completely different.

Because Fan Reaction drives Owners to decide one 7-9 is better/worse than another 7-9, right?

Quote

Fans would be looking for heads to roll if Geno QB's that record, but will shrug it off behind Fitz.

Let me know which "fans" here at JN will "shrug-off" a win-now year where Fitz fails.  

Quote

That, imho, was the driving force behind capitulating on the contract.

The Woody Conspiracy Theory without mentioning Woody, yes, it's already well established here.  No one could possibly want Fitz over Geno for on-field reasons, so it must be a marketing/ownership conspiracy!!  /chuckle.

Quote

I think Fitz is an easy QB for good teams to defend against. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. 

I don't believe you hope that, frankly.  I think you hope Fitz falls on his face hard, so you can necro a few more oldposts and tell everyone how right you were.  We'll see there too, won't we. If things go south,if you post more about disappointment, or more about "told you so /smug".

I think you're massively butthurt, frankly, that the team went a different way than you thought was best.

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, slats said:

They probably do. I do. I just don't think he's anywhere close to $12M better. 

Then you do not understand the current salary structure for NFL QB's 12 mil is a low end starter Fitz was not being unreasonable like some here contend. Thing is Fitz played better than most QB's last year so you can look at his signing as a bargain. If he plays better this year with more weapons and check downs at his disposal we will probably be doing this all over again next year.

[slats]

32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Of course you do.  Because NFL GM's and Head Coaches often choose PR over on-field production from the most vital position on the field, right?

Because Fan Reaction drives Owners to decide one 7-9 is better/worse than another 7-9, right?

Let me know which "fans" here at JN will "shrug-off" a win-now year where Fitz fails.  

The Woody Conspiracy Theory without mentioning Woody, yes, it's already well established here.  No one could possibly want Fitz over Geno for on-field reasons, so it must be a marketing/ownership conspiracy!!  /chuckle.

I don't believe you hope that, frankly.  I think you hope Fitz falls on his face hard, so you can necro a few more oldposts and tell everyone how right you were.  We'll see there too, won't we. If things go south,if you post more about disappointment, or more about "told you so /smug".

I think you're massively butthurt, frankly, that the team went a different way than you thought was best.

Dude, you're the guy who likes to beat his chest and tell everyone how often he's right. I could give a crap. 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, slats said:

If Fitzpatrick was an obvious starting caliber player, he wouldn't've still been a free agent last week. 

But whatever. He's here. He's the Jets starting QB. He's getting paid. There's really not much more to say on the subject. 

Wrong again... the negotiations were between the Jets and Fitz . NO ONE here  knows what other teams called Fitz' agent offering deals that didn't stack up to what the Jets were able to offer. In that case as an NFL GM why call Fitz and offer 12 Mil ? What's the Point ? Elway apparently called and offered 7 mil (because he's an Idiot) but no one knows that for sure and the way Elway handled his QB's and Oswieler in particular was moronic.

The only way another NFL team would have extended an Offer to Fitz and pry him from the Jets would have been to offer in the 15-18 mil per year range to get Fitz to move and that would have been an ignorant deal for a 33 year old QB who still had to learn a new system then there's always the chance he would not fit in said system. If other teams put 13 or 14 mil on the table The Jets probably would have countered if they would have put 15+ the Jets might have let him walk.

From day 1 I said the Jets would probably offer between 10-12 million that was his market IMHO

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Dude, you're the guy who likes to beat his chest and tell everyone how often he's right. I could give a crap. 

Then why necro posts ?

[Smashmouth]

Hey Slats come play mafia with us. The beat down there is much more fun

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Wrong again... the negotiations were between the Jets and Fitz . NO ONE here  knows what other teams called Fitz' agent offering deals that didn't stack up to what the Jets were able to offer. In that case as an NFL GM why call Fitz and offer 12 Mil ? What's the Point ? Elway apparently called and offered 7 mil (because he's an Idiot) but no one knows that for sure and the way Elway handled his QB's and Oswieler in particular was moronic.

The only way another NFL team would have extended an Offer to Fitz and pry him from the Jets would have been to offer in the 15-18 mil per year range to get Fitz to move and that would have been an ignorant deal for a 33 year old QB who still had to learn a new system then there's always the chance he would not fit in said system. If other teams put 13 or 14 mil on the table The Jets probably would have countered if they would have put 15+ the Jets might have let him walk.

From day 1 I said the Jets would probably offer between 10-12 million that was his market IMHO

The Jets had a very public offer on the table at an average of $8M/year, and no one made him an offer to counter that. NFL news gets reported. He visited Denver. They may or may not have offered him $7M for a single year. That's it. He was actively, publicly trying to create a market for himself, to get the Jets to raise their offer, and found the market for his services to be non-existent. Had his agent gotten a phone call with an offer, you can bet your house he would've announced it. And if he was considered by the league to be a starting caliber QB, he would've gotten offers, especially when it was obvious he was in a stalemate with the Jets. He's replacement level. A top backup. 

A lot gets made of the $12M in the first year of that original offer, and it backfired on the Jets to make that detail public. It was almost certainly $12M up front for cap purposes (figure something like a $9M signing bonus, and salaries of 3/6/6), just like his current deal has a built in dummy year to keep this year's cap cost down. But by making that number public, they opened themselves up to pressure from the NY press to sign him for the 1/12 he eventually got. 

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

Dude, you're the guy who likes to beat his chest and tell everyone how often he's right.

Only when the usual suspects trot out the usual "you don't know anything about football" foolishness.

20 minutes ago, slats said:

I could give a crap. 

About the Jets 2016 season?  Clearly.  

You've written this year off already and it couldn't be any more clear.

[slats]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Then why necro posts ?

Because jgb is a special poster who deserves extra special treatment. I've been here 10 years. How often have you seen me do something like that?