Paradis Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's an interesting case study. Made some good moves, cleared a ton of cap space, got a ton of draft picks. None panned out immediately, and he got fired along with a coach that he inherited, not one he hired. No, his draft picks are starting to contribute, and the cap space he created was well used, and a new coach is doing a good job. You're making it sound way more interesting that it was... just because a COUPLE of picks are producing, it far from excuses his borderline retarded roster management and inept drafts. We survived 2 anemic years of offense whilst blowing two of the most studded drafts in the history of draftage. We're hanging a hat on Enunwa now? Hows M. Bryant doing? or Landry, or 1000 other receivers. How's Millner doing? McDougle. etc etc.... not to mention our Defense was criminally understaffed. The only thing he did (and did well) was get us out of cap hell, and pronto. ...So no... No, I won't be thanking Idzik for accidentally picking Richardson and Pryor. Or anything else he unintentionally did successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjets782 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The secondary only went to hell in hindsight through poor drafting. In his two drafts with the Jets, Idzik invested heavily in the secondary using two first round picks (Milliner and Pryor) and a third round pick (McDougal). I can only assume that Rex had a say/influence on these picks, but for various reasons, he was unable to develop any of these players. And that is why there is free agency. When you swing and miss in the draft, you must compensate in free agency which he stubbornly refused to do. Milliner was awful save for 2 games as a rookie and he was the best of what we had and counting on a 3rd round rookie as Plan A to start or even play the nickel is foolhardy. I am not all for throwing money around but I also don't believe in tanking seasons with $30 in unused cap space after going 8-8 and having double digit draft picks to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 His problem was that he was too methodical and couldn't make a decision quickly. He also didn't know how to build a scouting program. Finally, he panicked and abandoned his philosophy when trading for Harvin (too late too). Most importantly, he let his philosophy get in the way of fielding a competent team; it was inexcusable that he let the Jets secondary get as bad as he did - and did nothing during the season The Harvin deal was bizarre, and a waste of cap and a draft pick. The total lack of a secondary was odd. He basically sacrificed a year. I don't have a problem with him missing on Geno. He spent a high 2nd on a potential QB. I had a problem with starting him year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 And that is why there is free agency. When you swing and miss in the draft, you must compensate in free agency which he stubbornly refused to do. Milliner was awful save for 2 games as a rookie and he was the best of what we had and counting on a 3rd round rookie as Plan A to start or even play the nickel is foolhardy. I am not all for throwing money around but I also don't believe in tanking seasons with $30 in unused cap space after going 8-8 and having double digit draft picks to use. Fair enough. My only point is that he failed to build up the secondary with adequate players, he didn't ignore it. If Milliner, Pryor, and McDougal all stayed healthy and were able to produce from the onset, the situation would have been much different. He took a huge risk building up the secondary with young question marks and not formulating a legitimate backup plan. It completely backfired on him. I think he was too confident in the talent of the players he drafted, and he overrated Rex's ability to develop players in a defensive unit which he supposedly specialized in. He overlooked their extensive injury histories as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 6 for 19 with one homer. Wouldn't be bad if he were a third baseman. What's the Mendoza line for NFL GMs these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjets782 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Fair enough. My only point is that he failed to build up the secondary with adequate players, he didn't ignore it. If Milliner, Pryor, and McDougal all stayed healthy and were able to produce from the onset, the situation would have been much different. He took a huge risk building up the secondary with young question marks and not formulating a legitimate backup plan. It completely backfired on him. I think he was too confident in the talent of the players he drafted, and he overrated Rex's ability to develop players in a defensive unit which he supposedly specialized in. He overlooked their extensive injury histories as well. I agree with most of this and ignore in a literal sense would mean he was using practice squad and rookie FA's, which he did not do. However, he took a head coach who needs boatloads of CB's to run his D and gave him an underperforming injury prone 2nd year player, a journeyman who went AWOL, an injury prone 3rd round pick that most felt was a reach and Darrin Walls. No executive who wants to give his coach a fighting chance would have done that... and I am no fan of Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Fair enough. My only point is that he failed to build up the secondary with adequate players, he didn't ignore it. If Milliner, Pryor, and McDougal all stayed healthy and were able to produce from the onset, the situation would have been much different. He took a huge risk building up the secondary with young question marks and not formulating a legitimate backup plan. It completely backfired on him. I think he was too confident in the talent of the players he drafted, and he overrated Rex's ability to develop players in a defensive unit which he supposedly specialized in. He overlooked their extensive injury histories as well. My problem wasn't so much the plan (although I think he squandered picks and could have done better), but much more that when the plan failed he was either too stuck behind it or couldn't adapt/make decisions quick enough and we were stuck. We always wonder about coaches who don't adjust at half time, but Idzik refused to deviate from his plan - even when it was failing. He thought a crappy season was acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 And that is why there is free agency. When you swing and miss in the draft, you must compensate in free agency which he stubbornly refused to do. Milliner was awful save for 2 games as a rookie and he was the best of what we had and counting on a 3rd round rookie as Plan A to start or even play the nickel is foolhardy. I am not all for throwing money around but I also don't believe in tanking seasons with $30 in unused cap space after going 8-8 and having double digit draft picks to use. Fair enough. My only point is that he failed to build up the secondary with adequate players, he didn't ignore it. If Milliner, Pryor, and McDougal all stayed healthy and were able to produce from the onset, the situation would have been much different. He took a huge risk building up the secondary with young question marks and not formulating a legitimate backup plan. It completely backfired on him. I think he was too confident in the talent of the players he drafted, and he overrated Rex's ability to develop players in a defensive unit which he supposedly specialized in. He overlooked their extensive injury histories as well. He paid Dmitri Patterson as if he felt that was a real FA pickup. The guy would have gotten like $3M. I think he got as much or more than Cro. I'm sure that Idzik had an aversion to longer contracts and probably paid a bit extra to keep it at one year instead of signing an actual CB like DRC. That was the true disgrace. His utter failure there forced them to rely on Milliner AND McDougle, neither of whom lasted very long. The Harvin deal was bizarre, and a waste of cap and a draft pick. The total lack of a secondary was odd. He basically sacrificed a year. I don't have a problem with him missing on Geno. He spent a high 2nd on a potential QB. I had a problem with starting him year 1. I think the Harvin deal was a midseason attempt to save his job. He basically whiffed the 2014 offseason. Prior to that he probably was hoping that Rex would be canned and he could pick his guy. The talent was so pathetic he had to try something. A pick and $7M of cap space thrown at a wasted season was an ugly period at the end of his tenure. What's the Mendoza line for NFL GMs these days? How is his glove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 a player who wanted a lot of money There's a reason why Darrelle Revis wants a lot of money: He's worth a lot of money. He makes plays that win games. http://video.nfl.com/films/2015/NFL_COM/in-game-highlight/NFLCOM/REG/16/151227bprevispicksoffbrady_377219_5000k.mp4 Trading him sent a message to the team that they weren't serious about winning football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He's an interesting case study. Made some good moves, cleared a ton of cap space, got a ton of draft picks. None panned out immediately, and he got fired along with a coach that he inherited, not one he hired. No, his draft picks are starting to contribute, and the cap space he created was well used, and a new coach is doing a good job. when I was a headhunter, there were executives that were hired for a year to be the bad guy, only for a good guy to come in and clean up. pretty scummy stuff could woody be that bold ? was he a hatchett man/fall guy ? naaaaah, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 There's a reason why Darrelle Revis wants a lot of money: He's worth a lot of money. He makes plays that win games. http://video.nfl.com/films/2015/NFL_COM/in-game-highlight/NFLCOM/REG/16/151227bprevispicksoffbrady_377219_5000k.mp4 Trading him sent a message to the team that they weren't serious about winning football games. I disagree, sometimes you need to part ways with a player; they either want too much, or you can't afford a fair contract. Pats trade away players all of the time - like Seymoure etc; nobody accuses them of not wanting to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Rex's ineptitude is so pervasive and so profound that the blast radius of his implosion will make both Idzik and Doug Marrone look like Ted Thompson and Chuck Noll in retrospect. Now THAT'S sucking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shevys Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 His first move was to trade Revis. A homegrown HOF'er. Who won a ring with the Pats 2 years later. No matter what else he did that was the worst move ever Not really fair. That was inevitable at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmech Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Sorry, I think this was a smart move. Revis wanted too much money and we were a team in a need of rebuilding and had cap issues. He got great value for Revis. The fact that he maybe should have picked differently given the extra 1st is another story.Sometimes you have to make the trade even though you love the player. Sorry to tell you, but this is a very likely option for Mo - doubt we can sign him at this point. Well I disagree. Changed the defense dramatically and caused me at least to alienate the team and wanted to sell my psl's. Also please lets stop the insanity of giving JI any props. The guy picked one player that everyone knew was a top 15 pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What's the Mendoza line for NFL GMs these days? Watching the Bengals of all teams and seeing their roster really puzzles me on how the Jets have been so bad at drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Rex's ineptitude is so pervasive and so profound that the blast radius of his implosion will make both Idzik and Doug Marrone look like Ted Thompson and Chuck Noll in retrospect. Now THAT'S sucking. If Idzik's still here so is Bradway and all the other scouts. The core of this teams issues stemmed from 1. Woody, obviously...and 2. no one having any idea how to build a scouting department. I think this was the biggest takeaway from Wolf and Casserly doing their deep dive. For that, I'm happy we moved on from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If Idzik's still here so is Bradway and all the other scouts. The core of this teams issues stemmed from 1. Woody, obviously...and 2. no one having any idea how to build a scouting department. I think this was the biggest takeaway from Wolf and Casserly doing their deep dive. For that, I'm happy we moved on from everyone. Agreed and absolutely. Idzik didn't do a good job here, but I'm not sure anyone could with he hand he was dealt. In-denial owner, sh*t, meddling coach, holdover scouts that should have lost their jobs years prior. Thank god for Casserly and Wolf explaining to Woody what a GM would need in order to have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Watching the Bengals of all teams and seeing their roster really puzzles me on how the Jets have been so bad at drafting. Yeah, Cincinnati is an interesting case. Aside from Green and maybe Atkins and Whitworth, I don't know that they have anyone on the roster who you'd call a stud, but everyone they pick seems to become at least a useful player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sackdance Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 His first move was to trade Revis. A homegrown HOF'er. Who won a ring with the Pats 2 years later. No matter what else he did that was the worst move ever The pick we got for him was used to scoop up Richardson, wouldn't call that the worst move ever. It helped that the Bucs floundered that season. What transpired after that was beyond Jets control, at least until we resigned him. A good deal overall, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Well I disagree. Changed the defense dramatically and caused me at least to alienate the team and wanted to sell my psl's. Also please lets stop the insanity of giving JI any props. The guy picked one player that everyone knew was a top 15 pick! I guess we will have to agree to disagree. As for giving Idzik props, well. He sucked, I said as much. In fact, I said as much when I stated the only concern with getting rid of Rex was that we would get worse (like we did moving from Mike T to Idzik). That being said - if we don't acknowledge the good, than any criticism seems an emotional one-sided rant. To say he sucked is perfectly fair. To refuse to acknowledge anything he did right (or not wanting others to) just makes us look foolish IMO. But, he totally sucked and sucked any passion out of this team. Glad he is gone; glad Revis is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yeah, Cincinnati is an interesting case. Aside from Green and maybe Atkins and Whitworth, I don't know that they have anyone on the roster who you'd call a stud, but everyone they pick seems to become at least a useful player. Top 2-3 roster hands down. No real weaknesses except maybe guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Agreed and absolutely. Idzik didn't do a good job here, but I'm not sure anyone could with he hand he was dealt. In-denial owner, sh*t, meddling coach, holdover scouts that should have lost their jobs years prior. Thank god for Casserly and Wolf explaining to Woody what a GM would need in order to have a chance. Was he forced to keep Bradway? I remember in 2013, everybody was saying "wait until next year when he gets his scouts in place!" He did some housecleaning and brought in a bunch of new guys, but kept Bradway and some others around. The fact that they did significantly worse in the 2014 draft than 2013 was one of the things that made him seem so useless. Then again, Maccagnan kept Graves around until he left for the NFL offices a week before the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 His first move was to trade Revis. A homegrown HOF'er. Who won a ring with the Pats 2 years later. No matter what else he did that was the worst move ever Yep. Getting Richardson for Revis' ACL recovery year was unforgiveable. Seriously, you picked one of the few good moves he made to blast him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yep. Getting Richardson for Revis' ACL recovery year was unforgiveable. Seriously, you picked one of the few good moves he made to blast him? And then he blew the opportunity to sign him back after getting released from the Bucs. Idziot was complete trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Not really fair. That was inevitable at the time. it was inevitable that he returned. The trade was a detour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What transpired after that was beyond Jets control they could have just signed him and kept the best drafted player since Joe Willy Namath. Instead of watching him win a ring in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 they could have just signed him and kept the best drafted player since Joe Willy Namath. Instead of watching him win a ring in NE. This is the equalizer for me. Great, we got Sheldon, but we could have kept Revis and just drafted Sheldon anyways at 9. and the Pats probably don't win another ring without Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 they could have just signed him and kept the best drafted player since Joe Willy Namath. Instead of watching him win a ring in NE. Yep; Jets should have ignored a great trade, and blow the Cap (who would we have had to let go) to resign Revis because we should have guessed that Tampa would release him after a year (1st Round pick for a 1year rental) and that he would go to the Pats for a SB ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 they could have just signed him and kept the best drafted player since Joe Willy Namath. Instead of watching him win a ring in NE. And BTW, the Jets let Namath go to the Rams in the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 and blow the Cap (who would we have had to let go) to resign Revis there's no player on the team better than Revis or more valuable. So let go whoever to keep him, that's fine. but this idea that the cap was such a tough hard barrier, teams play cap games all the time. The last two years it's gone up 10+ mil each year. Cap hell is not really a thing any more. Teams sell it to fans as a reason why they traded their favorite player but it's BS. Backloading, front loading, there are ways to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 there's no player on the team better than Revis or more valuable. So let go whoever to keep him, that's fine. but this idea that the cap was such a tough hard barrier, teams play cap games all the time. The last two years it's gone up 10+ mil each year. Cap hell is not really a thing any more. Teams sell it to fans as a reason why they traded their favorite player but it's BS. Backloading, front loading, there are ways to make it work. IMO these tricks come back to haunt you. Sometimes a team has lost 2 years getting out of Cap hell. And you still need to fill 52 other players. Sure let everyone go for one CB. What happens then, the QB just throws to the other side against a guy you are paying league min or has all day to beat your top CB as there is no pass rush. Or, they just run against you instead of throwing. Blowing the cap for one player rarely works. Even with the QB. All of a sudden the QB has to throw the ball to himself. P Manning didn't win 10 superbowls because his team often sucked. Sucking for Luck didn't pay off as he has no team to win against the elite and no OL to protect him from getting hurt. Now, there are arguments that the best players on the team are now on offense - Marshal. Revis is great; glad he is back, but I still think the trade made sense when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 would've loved Martavis Bryant over Jalen Saunders though.... Like Bryant was the prototypical punt returner - and eventual Kerley replacement - that we needed to push us over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Like Bryant was the prototypical punt returner - and eventual Kerley replacement - that we needed to push us over the top. Steelers fans are not all in love. A bunch of them are complaining about Bryant and his poor catch percentage. OTOH, he surely won't be forgotten as quickly as Saunders and Shaq Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 it was widely reported at the time he told Woody he wouldn't accept the job unless he was allowed to trade Revis...Woody reluctantly agreed. Ironically it was one of his better GM moves. Had he gotten him back after 1 year he would have looked brilliant, and almost bordering on potential collusion with Revis. Wipe out the past bonus money from the cap during a 'clear the books' season, get a higher 1st & a 4th, and then get the same player back a year later anyway. In reality/hindsight he probably got lucky that Tampa flinched in their chicken game. His other good move happened days later, trading a 4th rounder for Ivory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Agreed and absolutely. Idzik didn't do a good job here, but I'm not sure anyone could with he hand he was dealt. In-denial owner, sh*t, meddling coach, holdover scouts that should have lost their jobs years prior. Thank god for Casserly and Wolf explaining to Woody what a GM would need in order to have a chance. If he'd drafted better he wouldn't have been faulted for Ryan's shortcomings. The problem was he made a few good moves and many, many bad ones. That meandering, cringe-worthy presser didn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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