Any chance we can get Rex back?

[nyjunc]

Yeah, I'm giving up trying to convince him on the obvious talent gap between the two lines. 2010 was far superior. It's very obvious.

Supporting a defense of Sanchez at this point is worthless. The guy left the Jets and went to another team with an offensive friendly system and was still beat out for the starting job and spent 2 years as a backup QB. Sanchez continued to prove what most Jets fans realized a while ago. He's a below average QB.

all you are doing is posting PFF stuff.  RBs were better in 2015, how did they do it w/ a crap OL?  pressure stats weren't insanely different(if those are even real, that is a subjective stat) and sack rate was less in 2010.

That below average QB did what the record breaker couldn't do- TWICE w/ less talent around him.

[ScarletKnight89]

all you are doing is posting PFF stuff.  RBs were better in 2015, how did they do it w/ a crap OL?  pressure stats weren't insanely different(if those are even real, that is a subjective stat) and sack rate was less in 2010.

That below average QB did what the record breaker couldn't do- TWICE w/ less talent around him.

I'm using PFF stuff to support my argument that the O-Line was crap. When your trying to make a point it's generally a good idea to use facts and stats to support your position. Your argument is "the Jets O-Line in 2015 was good".

The below average QB was carried by a very strong team around him. And he had less skill position talent around him, the defenses were better for Mark as well as the O-Lines were. When they withered away, Mark got exposed for what he was the whole time. That's why he's currently the backup QB for a 7 win team in a terrible division that is starving for a QB to step up in and take hold of.

[Integrity28]

I'm using PFF stuff to support my argument that the O-Line was crap. When your trying to make a point it's generally a good idea to use facts and stats to support your position. Your argument is "the Jets O-Line in 2015 was good".

It's awesome because every time he loses an argument, he blabbers about using facts, but then when you use them, he dismisses them. It would be brilliant if it were intentional trolling, but it isn't. 

King of debating.

[nyjunc]

I'm using PFF stuff to support my argument that the O-Line was crap. When your trying to make a point it's generally a good idea to use facts and stats to support your position. Your argument is "the Jets O-Line in 2015 was good".

The below average QB was carried by a very strong team around him. And he had less skill position talent around him, the defenses were better for Mark as well as the O-Lines were. When they withered away, Mark got exposed for what he was the whole time. That's why he's currently the backup QB for a 7 win team in a terrible division that is starving for a QB to step up in and take hold of.

the PFF stuff is subjective.  they are not facts

he was carried a bit in 2009 as a rookie, in 2010 he was a major reason why we won 11 games and got back to postseason.  mark made an AFC Championship game w/ Wayne Hunter as his starting RT.

In Philly he elevated that O last year. he got beat out by a talented QB and Chip should have changed QBs much sooner and their season could have been saved but he didn't.  I don't care, I care what he did for us.

It's awesome because every time he loses an argument, he blabbers about using facts, but then when you use them, he dismisses them. It would be brilliant if it were intentional trolling, but it isn't. 

King of debating.

I love when you chime in, since you can't keep up debating me you hop on the backs of others and throw little comments out there.  where are the facts?  PFF is not facts, it's subjective stuff. either participate in discussions or be quiet. 

[Integrity28]

I love when you chime in, since you can't keep up debating me you hop on the backs of others and throw little comments out there.  where are the facts?  PFF is not facts, it's subjective stuff. either participate in discussions or be quiet. 

I'm moderating. Every time I see an opening for you to run off on a tangent that deviates from the initial premise, I provide level-setting perspective so that the other guy understands not to follow you down the rathole. This way, the "debate" stays focused, rather than becoming a trivial, personal-attack filled meltdown that you drag out across several threads ruining the readability of every active topic.

I'm doing the yoeman's work here. 

[ScarletKnight89]

the PFF stuff is subjective.  they are not facts

he was carried a bit in 2009 as a rookie, in 2010 he was a major reason why we won 11 games and got back to postseason.  mark made an AFC Championship game w/ Wayne Hunter as his starting RT.

In Philly he elevated that O last year. he got beat out by a talented QB and Chip should have changed QBs much sooner and their season could have been saved but he didn't.  I don't care, I care what he did for us.

I love when you chime in, since you can't keep up debating me you hop on the backs of others and throw little comments out there.  where are the facts?  PFF is not facts, it's subjective stuff. either participate in discussions or be quiet. 

You bring up Wayne Hunter in defense of Mark but ignore Breno Giacomini, Brian Winters, and an old worn down Brick in 2015. This debate is going nowhere cause you're not going to admit an obvious fact that the 2015 line was bad.

If Mark elevated the O last year then why did Chip Kelly go out and get Bradford for this year? I'll tell you why, cause he knows what Mark Sanchez is.

[nyjunc]

I'm moderating. Every time I see an opening for you to run off on a tangent that deviates from the initial premise, I provide level-setting perspective so that the other guy understands not to follow you down the rathole. This way, the "debate" stays focused, rather than becoming a trivial, personal-attack filled meltdown that you drag out across several threads ruining the readability of every active topic.

I'm doing the yoeman's work here. 

you provide nothing but whining about me.  show me the facts? when I see facts I will alter my thinking, subjective stats are not facts.  I saw another site that had us as a top 5 pass blocking O.  this stuff is all subjective.  people overrated the 2009/2010 OLs and the underrate the current groups.  2009 was really good, 2010 was good.  the 2015 Jets were more talented w/ a weaker sched than the 2010 Jets. 

 

the 2010 Jets made the AFC Championship Game and came closest to a SB than at any point since SB III.  the 2015 Jets couldn't even make the playoffs- these are FACTS.

[nyjunc]

You bring up Wayne Hunter in defense of Mark but ignore Breno Giacomini, Brian Winters, and an old worn down Brick in 2015. This debate is going nowhere cause you're not going to admit an obvious fact that the 2015 line was bad.

If Mark elevated the O last year then why did Chip Kelly go out and get Bradford for this year? I'll tell you why, cause he knows what Mark Sanchez is.

didn't winters handle Suh twice?  Breno and Winters are not wayne hunter.

I will not admit to something that isn't true, you want to say mediocre? I can buy that but bad? that is ridiculous, we don't win 10 games against any sched w/ a bad OL. we don't have RBs average 4.6 YPC w/ a bad OL.

he did elevate the O, that's a real fact.  scored over 5 more PPG against tougher part of sched.

why did he re-dign Mark then if he knows who he is? why have a QB on your roster you don't trust?  Bradford is a tantalizing prospect, he took a chance and got fired b/c of it.

[ScarletKnight89]

didn't winters handle Suh twice?  Breno and Winters are not wayne hunter.

I will not admit to something that isn't true, you want to say mediocre? I can buy that but bad? that is ridiculous, we don't win 10 games against any sched w/ a bad OL. we don't have RBs average 4.6 YPC w/ a bad OL.

he did elevate the O, that's a real fact.  scored over 5 more PPG against tougher part of sched.

why did he re-dign Mark then if he knows who he is? why have a QB on your roster you don't trust?  Bradford is a tantalizing prospect, he took a chance and got fired b/c of it.

An RB's YPC is not entirely based on an O-Lines performance. Ivory was one of the best backs in the league at generating yards after contact, meaning he breaks a lot of tackles. Look at what an average back like Ridley did running behind that line when he got chances. Your giving Ivory zero credit for being really good at his job. The run blocking was better than the Jets pass blocking this year but it was still below average. We got killed by our tackle play. You can run behind certain areas of an offensive line that aren't as weak as other areas. When you drop back to pass, generally your counting on all lineman to be able to pickup their assignments. This was where our O-Line was very poor.

He used Mark Sanchez as a backup QB. The one guy Mark replaced after injury was Foles who Chip quickly got rid of after that season was over. Acquired another QB, and move Mark right back to the bench.

 

[Integrity28]

you provide nothing but whining about me.  show me the facts? when I see facts I will alter my thinking, subjective stats are not facts.  I saw another site that had us as a top 5 pass blocking O.  this stuff is all subjective.  people overrated the 2009/2010 OLs and the underrate the current groups.  2009 was really good, 2010 was good.  the 2015 Jets were more talented w/ a weaker sched than the 2010 Jets. 

 

the 2010 Jets made the AFC Championship Game and came closest to a SB than at any point since SB III.  the 2015 Jets couldn't even make the playoffs- these are FACTS.

Every fact introduced into one of your "debates" by the person disagreeing with you becomes immediately subjective if it disproves your opinion.

The bold is purely an observation you've made, and your opinion. Who are the people doing the over- and under-rating? What metrics are we basing that rating on? You're asking for fact-based arguments to disprove a casual observation that you've made and are passing off as truth. The simple end to the argument is this: "No." For, your opinion is pretty much just as viable as mine. If you want to define a context for these ratings, then you can actually introduce facts. But to set a context that your opinion must be disproven by facts, but only facts that you approve of is foolish... and the only type of "debate" endeavor you like to take on.

Also, sharing behavioral observations in order to maintain a higher caliber of "debate" is not whining. Once again, I don't care about the premise of your disagreement. I'm just trying to help you refine your debate tactics... this way they are actually debates, not mud-slinging fart-fests.

[nyjunc]

An RB's YPC is not entirely based on an O-Lines performance. Ivory was one of the best backs in the league at generating yards after contact, meaning he breaks a lot of tackles. Look at what an average back like Ridley did running behind that line when he got chances. Your giving Ivory zero credit for being really good at his job. The run blocking was better than the Jets pass blocking this year but it was still below average. We got killed by our tackle play. You can run behind certain areas of an offensive line that aren't as weak as other areas. When you drop back to pass, generally your counting on all lineman to be able to pickup their assignments. This was where our O-Line was very poor.

He used Mark Sanchez as a backup QB. The one guy Mark replaced after injury was Foles who Chip quickly got rid of after that season was over. Acquired another QB, and move Mark right back to the bench.

 

Ridley was banged up coming off major injury.  he didn't have his old explosiveness, look at what Powell did?  did you see the hole on that long run the other day?  Enunwa is a very good blocking WR and Powell was excellent in picking up blitzes but I still disagree the OL was bad.

I am not saying our Ol was great but to say it was BAD I disagree with.  I do appreciate the way you debate though even though we disagree. 

 

and his team got much worse when he did it.  mark was the most effective QB of the Chip era. 

[Jet Nut]

Yeah, I'm giving up trying to convince him on the obvious talent gap between the two lines. 2010 was far superior. It's very obvious.

Supporting a defense of Sanchez at this point is worthless. The guy left the Jets and went to another team with an offensive friendly system and was still beat out for the starting job and spent 2 years as a backup QB. Sanchez continued to prove what most Jets fans realized a while ago. He's a below average QB.

Hes a lost cause.  Actually tried arguing with me that Sanchez in 2014 was better than Eli Manning.  A Sanchez who took over a 6-2 Eagle team with Foles, a scrub like QB and promptly went 4-4 and watch the season and their playoffs go out the window.  As you said, hes a bottom 5 QB, nothing more.

[nyjunc]

Hes a lost cause.  Actually tried arguing with me that Sanchez in 2014 was better than Eli Manning.  A Sanchez who took over a 6-2 Eagle team with Foles, a scrub like QB and promptly went 4-4 and watch the season and their playoffs go out the window.  As you said, hes a bottom 5 QB, nothing more.

you were already humiliated, please move along.

[Jet Nut]

you were already humiliated, please move along.

Then why are you following me all over the board trying to continue your idiotic, losing argument a day later?

Go away, youre just annoying

[nyjunc]

Then why are you following me all over the board trying to continue your idiotic, losing argument a day later?

Go away, youre just annoying

Huh? you are the one that was discussing me in this thread.  you are a really confused person.  tell me again how Nick Foles led the Eagles to 31 pts at Houston last year

[JetsFanatic]

Then why are you following me all over the board trying to continue your idiotic, losing argument a day later?

Go away, youre just annoying

He is annoying. Very annoying.

[Pac]

nyjunc is on a roll..  really like this guys posts.

[jetrider]

I agree hindsight is 20/20 but I was saying it from my seat at Heinz Field at the time.

we got ambushed that 1st half, we should have tried to keep the deficit around 20 and get into the half.  that game is the toughest loss for me b/c I feel that was our best shot at the SB.  I really believe we were the better team.

I agree we were the better team and that was our best shot. But you're still using hindsight, hypotheticals, and bs.

I don't believe you wanted to punt. Not to a team that controlled the ball for 20:50 of the half.

You were on your feet screaming for the Jets to convert on 3rd & 17 just like any other Jets fan. Admit it.

 

 

[nyjunc]

I agree we were the better team and that was our best shot. But you're still using hindsight, hypotheticals, and bs.

I don't believe you wanted to punt. Not to a team that controlled the ball for 20:50 of the half.

You were on your feet screaming for the Jets to convert on 3rd & 17 just like any other Jets fan. Admit it.

 

 

I am using my thoughts at the time, I thought it was a foolish risk and I turned out to be right unfortunately.  of course when we decided to go I was hoping for the best but the reality is I was really hoping for anything but a turnover.   I don't think that play killed us as going down and getting that FG took some of the sting away but if we could go in 17-0 down that would have been ideal and giving us the best chance to win.

[drdetroit]