Next test for Bowles; sifting out the trash in our Defense

[CrazyCarl40]

I think moving Cromartie to safety along with Pryor is something to look into. Cromartie was #1 in balls deflected this year he's just older and gets beat put him up top and let him ballhawk but he'd have to restructure his contract. idk its just a thought

Cro doesn't like to tackle and you want to move him to safety where the Jets already have two solid players? Come on now. Just cut Cro, let Williams, Milliner, Skrine, McDougle, and whomever battle it out for the 2nd CB position. That position is much less of a need to have someone great there now that teams actually target receivers Revis is covering. Before, Revis would be so locked in that he wouldn't even see targets, now they're spread more evenly.

[#27TheDominator]

In the position by position breakdown I posted earlier today, I estimated we could free up about $16-$18M with cuts of Cro ($8M) Kerley ($2.5M) Cumberland ($1.9M), Geno ($1.1M) and after restructuring Brick's deal. 

If they cut Geno it will be because they want him gone.  Unless they like Petty's progress they are not saving any money at that spot. If they sign any FA they will cost more.  Moore, Flynn, those guys will easily cost more than Geno. Even a rookie will eat up the majority of that Geno money.

[JetBlue]

Pace and Davis can be let go, and I think Richardson is going to want more money than I would like to see him get. I also don't think very highly of Calvin Pryor and Cromartie should be history as well. What bothers me the most is that the team did not look fired up. Rex would have had them breathing fire coming out the door and they did not have that look. I wonder about Bowles ability to motivate the team to play with fire.

What don't you like about Pryor?  As a second year player he made significant strides.  He needs to continue to improve but I think he was one of the bright spots on defense this year. 

[JetBlue]

In the position by position breakdown I posted earlier today, I estimated we could free up about $16-$18M with cuts of Cro ($8M) Kerley ($2.5M) Cumberland ($1.9M), Geno ($1.1M) and after restructuring Brick's deal. 

It makes zero sense to cut Smith.  Any back up we bring in will earn as much or more.  

[Jetsfan80]

It makes zero sense to cut Smith.  Any back up we bring in will earn as much or more.  

People keep repeating this like it matters.  If the Jets re-sign Fitz AND draft a QB in the 2nd round or later he'll make the same (or less) as Geno in 2016, and if they take one at # 20 overall, he'll only make about 600-700K more than Geno, and we'd own his rights for the next 4 or 5 years.   So if the Jets draft a QB anywhere in this draft, unless you're thinking the rookie will end up getting cut and placed on the practice squad, Geno has no place on the roster. 

Meanwhile, if we sign another QB to back up Fitz instead of picking one in the draft, we'd be picking up a veteran we deem to be better than Geno.  So in that instance, it would be Fitz as the starter, the veteran as the # 2, and Petty returning to his # 3 role.

It's not the cap dollars that matter, it's the roster spot.  We're not carrying 4 QB's next year.  The only reason I pointed out what we save by cutting him is because I listed every player that are possibilities to cut and how that would impact our cap dollars next year.  Not to somehow show that Geno is a cap-related cut.  He would not be.

[JetBlue]

People keep repeating this like it matters.  If the Jets re-sign Fitz AND draft a QB in the 2nd round or later he'll make the same (or less) as Geno in 2016, and if they take one at # 20 overall, he'll only make about 600-700K more than Geno, and we'd own his rights for the next 4 or 5 years.   So if the Jets draft a QB anywhere in this draft, unless you're thinking the rookie will end up getting cut and placed on the practice squad, Geno has no place on the roster. 

Meanwhile, if we sign another QB to back up Fitz instead of picking one in the draft, we'd be picking up a veteran we deem to be better than Geno.  So in that instance, it would be Fitz as the starter, the veteran as the # 2, and Petty returning to his # 3 role.

It's not the cap dollars that matter, it's the roster spot.  We're not carrying 4 QB's next year.  The only reason I pointed out what we save by cutting him is because I listed every player that are possibilities to cut and how that would impact our cap dollars next year.  Not to somehow show that Geno is a cap-related cut.  He would not be.

There is no quarterback we can bring in that is better prepared in Gaileys system then Geno Smith.  That is the fact, Jack. If we pick up another QB it needs to be in the draft to continue our search for that elusive Franchise QB. We don't need a back up to Fitz, we already have one on the roster. 

[Jetsfan80]

There is no quarterback we can bring in that is better prepared in Gaileys system then Geno Smith.  That is the fact, Jack.

Geno's sole edge is having 1 year in Gailey's system as opposed to 0 for whoever we bring in.  That in no way ensures he would win the backup role over another veteran.  If the veteran is the better QB, he'd win the job, and Geno gets cut. 

[#27TheDominator]

People keep repeating this like it matters.  If the Jets re-sign Fitz AND draft a QB in the 2nd round or later he'll make the same (or less) as Geno in 2016, and if they take one at # 20 overall, he'll only make about 600-700K more than Geno, and we'd own his rights for the next 4 or 5 years.   So if the Jets draft a QB anywhere in this draft, unless you're thinking the rookie will end up getting cut and placed on the practice squad, Geno has no place on the roster. 

Meanwhile, if we sign another QB to back up Fitz instead of picking one in the draft, we'd be picking up a veteran we deem to be better than Geno.  So in that instance, it would be Fitz as the starter, the veteran as the # 2, and Petty returning to his # 3 role.

It's not the cap dollars that matter, it's the roster spot.  We're not carrying 4 QB's next year.  The only reason I pointed out what we save by cutting him is because I listed every player that are possibilities to cut and how that would impact our cap dollars next year.  Not to somehow show that Geno is a cap-related cut.  He would not be.

These guys drafted Petty and were so scared of the thought of him having to step in and play that they signed Matt Flynn and Josh Johnson.  As soon as Geno was able, he was rushed back in as the #2 QB.  The veteran #2 is likely going to cost more than Geno. The rookie is likely not going to be considered ready to even be the #2.  The only way they save anything is if they are satisfied that Petty can handle duty as the #2 and bring in another developmental draft pick or Jake Heaps type guy.  I have no idea what they think of Geno.  The locker room did not seem particularly kind to him, but he came back way quicker than expected and if he were such a cancer they would have dumped him in 2015.  Why wait? 

[bealeb319]

Can one of the cap gurus doing a quick estimate of where we'll be at when some of the obvious guys are gone? (ie. Cro, Kerley, etc)

I don't think Cro gets cut. I want them to keep Kerley but I agree with you that he is a pretty obvious candidate. Cro was actually improving toward the later end of the season.

[JetBlue]

Geno's sole edge is having 1 year in Gailey's system as opposed to 0 for whoever we bring in.  That in no way ensures he would win the backup role over another veteran.  If the veteran is the better QB, he'd win the job, and Geno gets cut. 

I will believe it when I see it. They were prepared to go into the season with Geno as the starter (assuming he performed well in preseason) so why would expect some free agent quarterback to be better, especially for the limited cap dollars that will be available after signing Fitz? It makes no sense when you already have Geno under contract.  

[Jetsfan80]

These guys drafted Petty and were so scared of the thought of him having to step in and play that they signed Matt Flynn and Josh Johnson.  As soon as Geno was able, he was rushed back in as the #2 QB.  The veteran #2 is likely going to cost more than Geno. The rookie is likely not going to be considered ready to even be the #2.  The only way they save anything is if they are satisfied that Petty can handle duty as the #2 and bring in another developmental draft pick or Jake Heaps type guy.  I have no idea what they think of Geno.  The locker room did not seem particularly kind to him, but he came back way quicker than expected and if he were such a cancer they would have dumped him in 2015.  Why wait? 

Yes, there are a lot of unknowns in that list.  Last season Geno's presence was valuable.  But now that we have a full offseason ahead of us for other QB's to be added, his spot on the roster is anything but assured.  If we add no QB's, sure, I could see Geno coming back.  But the max # I see carrying on our 53 is 3.  One way or the other, Geno is going to have to win a job away from a newcomer to make it onto the final 53. 

[Jetsfan80]

I will believe it when I see it. They were prepared to go into the season with Geno as the starter (assuming he performed well in preseason) so why would expect some free agent quarterback to be better, especially for the limited cap dollars that will be available after signing Fitz? It makes no sense when you already have Geno under contract.  

Simple.  Because he'd be a handpicked guy.  This front office isn't dumb; they got Fitz for a 7th and he set Jet records.  None of us have any idea what Petty can do but early reports about his attitude, preparation and work ethic are positive.  Any further QB's they bring in will be part of their plans.  That gives any incoming QB's the edge over Geno.  We wouldn't draft or sign a new QB if we're all set to make Geno the # 2.  If we bring in no QB's, it's a sign they're happy to have Geno for 1 more season.  But I doubt that happens. 

As you said, you'll believe it when you see it.  But it's dumb to think a new QB wouldn't have the edge over Geno.  Of course he would.  We wouldn't acquire him if we thought we're all set at the # 2 QB spot.  Just like they wouldn't have brought in both Fitz and Petty last offseason if they were confident in Geno's abilities.  Same principle applies to the backup job next season.

[#27TheDominator]

Simple.  Because he'd be a handpicked guy.  This front office isn't dumb; they got Fitz for a 7th and he set Jet records.  None of us have any idea what Petty can do but early reports about his attitude, preparation and work ethic are positive.  Any further QB's they bring in will be part of their plans.  That gives any incoming QB's the edge over Geno.  We wouldn't draft or sign a new QB if we're all set to make Geno the # 2.  If we bring in no QB's, it's a sign they're happy to have Geno for 1 more season.  But I doubt that happens. 

As you said, you'll believe it when you see it.  But it's dumb to think a new QB wouldn't have the edge over Geno.  Of course he would.  We wouldn't acquire him if we thought we're all set at the # 2 QB spot.  Just like they wouldn't have brought in both Fitz and Petty last offseason if they were confident in Geno's abilities.  Same principle applies to the backup job next season.

I like this front office so far, but they may still be dumb.  They got Fitz for a 7th and he set records.  They got Marshall for a 5th and he did too. OTOH, they traded a 7th for Zac Stacy and he sucked.  They moved down in the 3rd for DeVier Posey and I don't even think he made final cuts.  The guy was a 2012 draft pick and he is still signing futures contracts.  If you figure the draft chart value, taking into consideration the two extra picks it came out to a mid-5th.   The Texans used the pick to take Jaelen Strong who came on pretty well at the end of the season.  We got Mauldin, but Conley, Duke Johnson and Harold were on the board.  Their FA signings were hit and miss. 

[JetBlue]

I like this front office so far, but they may still be dumb.  They got Fitz for a 7th and he set records.  They got Marshall for a 5th and he did too. OTOH, they traded a 7th for Zac Stacy and he sucked.  They moved down in the 3rd for DeVier Posey and I don't even think he made final cuts.  The guy was a 2012 draft pick and he is still signing futures contracts.  If you figure the draft chart value, taking into consideration the two extra picks it came out to a mid-5th.   The Texans used the pick to take Jaelen Strong who came on pretty well at the end of the season.  We got Mauldin, but Conley, Duke Johnson and Harold were on the board.  Their FA signings were hit and miss. 

You make a good point about Stacy and Posey but I am okay with Mauldin.  Ultimately the good outweighed the bad.  

[JetBlue]

Simple.  Because he'd be a handpicked guy.  This front office isn't dumb; they got Fitz for a 7th and he set Jet records.  None of us have any idea what Petty can do but early reports about his attitude, preparation and work ethic are positive.  Any further QB's they bring in will be part of their plans.  That gives any incoming QB's the edge over Geno.  We wouldn't draft or sign a new QB if we're all set to make Geno the # 2.  If we bring in no QB's, it's a sign they're happy to have Geno for 1 more season.  But I doubt that happens. 

As you said, you'll believe it when you see it.  But it's dumb to think a new QB wouldn't have the edge over Geno.  Of course he would.  We wouldn't acquire him if we thought we're all set at the # 2 QB spot.  Just like they wouldn't have brought in both Fitz and Petty last offseason if they were confident in Geno's abilities.  Same principle applies to the backup job next season.

You keep assuming there will BE an incoming quarterback and I will believe that when I see it.   Who do you see us bringing in as a FA?  If we draft a quarterback it will probably be another mid to late round pick unless some one they really like falls to us at 20.  

Last year would have still brought in Fitz and Petty because we needed a legit back up and we also wanted a young qb to groom so you point is not accurate.  Fitz set records because he had Marshall and Decker, and very good running game, please don't get it twisted;   I am not taking anything away from him but come on.   

[Jetsfan80]

I like this front office so far, but they may still be dumb.  They got Fitz for a 7th and he set records.  They got Marshall for a 5th and he did too. OTOH, they traded a 7th for Zac Stacy and he sucked.  They moved down in the 3rd for DeVier Posey and I don't even think he made final cuts.  The guy was a 2012 draft pick and he is still signing futures contracts.  If you figure the draft chart value, taking into consideration the two extra picks it came out to a mid-5th.   The Texans used the pick to take Jaelen Strong who came on pretty well at the end of the season.  We got Mauldin, but Conley, Duke Johnson and Harold were on the board.  Their FA signings were hit and miss. 

I was really only talking about QB, which has been by far the biggest problem this organization has had, and by far where the most important decisions will be taking place.

As for the moves you're looking at, sure, they definitely have some misses thus far.  But you brushed aside the Mauldin aspect of that deal.  Trading down for more picks AND getting what appears to be an immediate impact player is pretty impressive.  If Mauldin continues to progress as an effective pass-rusher (the 2nd most important thing we've been screaming for ever since whiffing on the Gholston pick), he's far more valuable than Duke Johnson.  

[Jetsfan80]

You keep assuming there will BE an incoming quarterback and I will believe that when I see it.   Who do you see us bringing in as a FA?  

I don't have my crystal ball with me right now.  All I'm saying is when we bring in another QB (and I'm confident we will at some point this offseason), he'll have the immediate edge over Geno.  That's my only claim.  If we don't pick one up you can sleep easy at night knowing Geno will be back.  But I think it's far more likely we will add another QB, somehow, than not.

If you want me to speculate on some free agent names, I'd be looking at guys who have Todd Bowles/Macc/Chan Gailey connections.  Matt Moore, Case Keenum, Drew Stanton, Matt Schaub, Chad Henne.  Those are the names included on that list.  It's a trash list, yes, which is, of course, why the draft is course the more preferable method to finding Geno/Petty's competition for the # 2 job.  But I'm not going to sit here and discuss why each and every one of those free agent QB's I listed aren't better options than Geno.  It's pointless debate, because I know you're always going to have a reason why Geno should be ahead on the depth chart of any QB we could bring in.  

[SR24]

I don't have my crystal ball with me right now.  All I'm saying is when we bring in another QB (and I'm confident we will at some point this offseason), he'll have the immediate edge over Geno.  That's my only claim.  If we don't pick one up you can sleep easy at night knowing Geno will be back.  But I think it's far more likely we will add another QB, somehow, than not.

If Hackenbergs there in the 2nd you think we take him? I'd love to see Connor Cook but i bet hes gone and we have so many other needs

[Jetsfan80]

If Hackenbergs there in the 2nd you think we take him? I'd love to see Connor Cook but i bet hes gone and we have so many other needs

I don't pretend to know much about these QB prospects.  They're underwhelming from what little I do know and I'm sure there will some less "big name" guys we aren't looking at closely who rise up the list between now and May.

This is why its so important to make sure we bring back Fitz.  There may be a QB prospect with upside out of this crop, but there's nothing close to a "sure thing" in this year's crop.  And I don't see a Drew Brees springing loose.

[Tinstar]

If Hackenbergs there in the 2nd you think we take him? I'd love to see Connor Cook but i bet hes gone and we have so many other needs

I would

[SR24]

I would

Wish we were in a position to draft Goff kids gonna be a stud. Hackenberg has a cannon for an arm and good size could be a really good fit

[Tinstar]

Wish we were in a position to draft Goff kids gonna be a stud. Hackenberg has a cannon for an arm and good size could be a really good fit

It's funny, but I don't like Goff at all and while I do like Hackenburg that kid has much to unlearn and then a whole lot to learn . I figure about 3 years on the bench but with his talent, I think he's worth it.

[#27TheDominator]

I was really only talking about QB, which has been by far the biggest problem this organization has had, and by far where the most important decisions will be taking place.

As for the moves you're looking at, sure, they definitely have some misses thus far.  But you brushed aside the Mauldin aspect of that deal.  Trading down for more picks AND getting what appears to be an immediate impact player is pretty impressive.  If Mauldin continues to progress as an effective pass-rusher (the 2nd most important thing we've been screaming for ever since whiffing on the Gholston pick), he's far more valuable than Duke Johnson.  

I wasn't glossing over Mauldin.  I only included him to be fair.  They got three picks and Posey.  One was used on Mauldin, one Harrison and the third traded to move up one spot for Petty.  Mauldin may be okay.  I like him, but you don't say a guy "appears to be an impact player" at the end of his rookie year.  The guy had 4 sacks and like 20 tackles. He was no impact player this year.  Seems like a quality kid that can potentially start, but no immediate impact.  Duke Johnson had like 60 catches and 500 yards receiving, might have been a nice option, but I am happy with Mauldin.  Just pointing out some guys we might have picked instead.  Harold didn't have much of a year for SF either.  

[funaz]

When you trade off all those mid and late round picks like Tanny did you miss out on a lot of players that go from 6th round pick directly to STs players.  

We need time to get rid of the shlt that Tanny and Rex compiled

Tanny was great for team, we need time to recover from idzick. 6th round picks are essentially unfa. Complaining about trading trash round picks is as moronic as saying Geno should have a shot at starting next year.

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[funaz]

Oh stop. It will not. I'd like him brought back, because he's great. Will the run defense be as good without him? No. Is he irreplaceable? Absolutely not. He probably played himself out of the Jets price range. 

We heard that about pouha, we hear it about harrison. Both are just jags. Who cares if we can stop the run when we can't pressure the qb

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[funaz]

Williams is the type of player everyone wants to see play all the time, every down.  

And when if he does everyone will be calling for his head.  

Reminds me of the walls situation. And antonio Allen, and other countless backups who make a play then are put in canton.

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[Jet Nut]

People keep repeating this like it matters.  If the Jets re-sign Fitz AND draft a QB in the 2nd round or later he'll make the same (or less) as Geno in 2016, and if they take one at # 20 overall, he'll only make about 600-700K more than Geno, and we'd own his rights for the next 4 or 5 years.   So if the Jets draft a QB anywhere in this draft, unless you're thinking the rookie will end up getting cut and placed on the practice squad, Geno has no place on the roster. 

Meanwhile, if we sign another QB to back up Fitz instead of picking one in the draft, we'd be picking up a veteran we deem to be better than Geno.  So in that instance, it would be Fitz as the starter, the veteran as the # 2, and Petty returning to his # 3 role.

It's not the cap dollars that matter, it's the roster spot.  We're not carrying 4 QB's next year.  The only reason I pointed out what we save by cutting him is because I listed every player that are possibilities to cut and how that would impact our cap dollars next year.  Not to somehow show that Geno is a cap-related cut.  He would not be.

I'd rather pay someone 2 mil that I would be happy putting in a game if Fitz is hurt or struggling instead of paying someone 1 mil and leaving him on the bench.  If they don't think Geno can play they need to get rid of him

[Jet Nut]

There is no quarterback we can bring in that is better prepared in Gaileys system then Geno Smith.  That is the fact, Jack. If we pick up another QB it needs to be in the draft to continue our search for that elusive Franchise QB. We don't need a back up to Fitz, we already have one on the roster. 

Being better prepared in the system doesn't mean they would play better in it.

i think we would all take Rodgers today.  Even though he's not as well versed in Gaileys system as Geno is. 

[Jet Nut]

These guys drafted Petty and were so scared of the thought of him having to step in and play that they signed Matt Flynn and Josh Johnson.  As soon as Geno was able, he was rushed back in as the #2 QB.  The veteran #2 is likely going to cost more than Geno. The rookie is likely not going to be considered ready to even be the #2.  The only way they save anything is if they are satisfied that Petty can handle duty as the #2 and bring in another developmental draft pick or Jake Heaps type guy.  I have no idea what they think of Geno.  The locker room did not seem particularly kind to him, but he came back way quicker than expected and if he were such a cancer they would have dumped him in 2015.  Why wait? 

why would any team go into the season with a vet QB coming off a season ending leg injury and a 4th round QB who all knew wasn't ready to play this year.

[JetBlue]

Being better prepared in the system doesn't mean they would play better in it.

i think we would all take Rodgers today.  Even though he's not as well versed in Gaileys system as Geno is. 

Let me know when Rodgers becomes available... 

[Jet Nut]

Let me know when Rodgers becomes available... 

Why?  Geno knows Gaileys system better.