Crying over spilled milk, but...

[nyjunc]

The playoff participant trophy is very nice, will give you that.

it sure is fun being one of the final 6 in the conference and having a chance to advance and possibly get to a SB.  beats not having a chance.

If everything broke perfectly, we would have won the division

If everything broke perfectly, the Steelers would have lost to Denver and we would be in anyway

it broke perfectly, NE wasn't coming down to 10-11 wins, even at the division it broke perfectly w/ NE "only" winning 12 games.

we had it on a silver platter and blew it.

[nyjunc]

So if we go 8-8 and make the playoffs next year, would that be a success?

Yes.  chances are we'll go 8-8, be better than this year, and still miss the playoffs. 

I'd rather go 8-8 and make playoffs than 11-5 and miss.

[bostonmajet]

There is a certain amount of luck needed as well; Rex's first year, 9-7 got into the playoffs.  Also, Indy sat Manning in the second half or we finish 8-8 and miss the playoffs.

BTW, we are paying for that one; since that time the NFL is trying to make week 16/17 games meaningful; if we hadn't capitalized on the Indy thing, we prob. wouldn't have finished at Buffalo.

[UnitedWhofans]

it sure is fun being one of the final 6 in the conference and having a chance to advance and possibly get to a SB.  beats not having a chance.

it broke perfectly, NE wasn't coming down to 10-11 wins, even at the division it broke perfectly w/ NE "only" winning 12 games.

we had it on a silver platter and blew it.

Except, apparently if you bomb out and get a high draft pick, according to some people on here

[Integrity28]

I try, I really do.  I can't keep getting attacked and not respond especially when it's so simple and the person just makes stuff up.  for every time I attack someone I am attacked 10 times.

You being proven wrong isn't an example of someone personally attacking you, though you seem to like to spin it as such. Telling people they are stupid, which is what you're doing when you say they cannot read, is - and that's something you say incessantly. 

It doesn't bother me, but please spare all of us the helpless victim routine. 

You like to argue, you lose a lot, and you don't handle yourself well. That's on you.

 

[Villain The Foe]

The difference between 16 and 20 is different than the difference between 1 and 4.

I bet it is. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

So if we go 8-8 and make the playoffs next year, would that be a success?

Everything is so relative...what I found odd as well last Sunday was watching highlights of Big Ben throwing a couple of picks and the Steelers fumbling deep in their own territory, yet still leading the Browns, while Fitz had a couple of touchdowns and no picks going into the fourth quarter and was still playing catch up.

[bitonti]

You know what I dont accept? Getting swept by the Bills who didnt have HOF'er Tom Brady on the field. 

When the HC from team A goes to team B, he usually knows how to beat team A.

Super Bowl 37 Jon Gruden vs the Raiders for a prime example. 

[nyjunc]

There is a certain amount of luck needed as well; Rex's first year, 9-7 got into the playoffs.  Also, Indy sat Manning in the second half or we finish 8-8 and miss the playoffs.

BTW, we are paying for that one; since that time the NFL is trying to make week 16/17 games meaningful; if we hadn't capitalized on the Indy thing, we prob. wouldn't have finished at Buffalo.

we don't know what happens if Manning and co. stay in.  that game was close when they sat but yes we did have some luck and we took advantage, this year we had more luck and failed to take advantage.

Except, apparently if you bomb out and get a high draft pick, according to some people on here

I am never one to worry about draft position.

You being proven wrong isn't an example of someone personally attacking you, though you seem to like to spin it as such. Telling people they are stupid, which is what you're doing when you say they cannot read, is - and that's something you say incessantly. 

It doesn't bother me, but please spare all of us the helpless victim routine. 

You like to argue, you lose a lot, and you don't handle yourself well. That's on you.

 

except for the small fact I haven't been proven wrong and the attacks aren't the weak attempts to prove me wrong but the childish insults being hurled at me.  if you would like to debate me please do although I would actually like a challenge but please stop w/ the nonsense.

[bitonti]

So there were 4 or 5 easier schedules that we played the past 10 years? Highly doubt that. 

Also, the Jets had 4 possible better teams in terms of overall talent the past 25 years? 

I will assume that the 1998 team is one of them.  What are the other 3 teams? 

 

Look at the strength of schedule from before the season the Jets were ranked 18th. How are you determining the schedule is so easy, after all the games have been played? Using that perspective, the games being played effect the strength of schedule as the season progresses. 

as for talent the 2009 and 2010 team were stacked. OL was better and Marshall/Decker isn't that much better than Braylon/Santonio. 

I still don't like the 25 years cut off point. It's cherry picking. I can't talk about 1986?

[Villain The Foe]

When the HC from team A goes to team B, he usually knows how to beat team A.

Super Bowl 37 Jon Gruden vs the Raiders for a prime example. 

Dude, we're on a 5 game losing streak to the Bills. 5 games, not 1....5. 

How long has Rex been the HC over there? lol. 

[nyjunc]

Look at the strength of schedule from before the season the Jets were ranked 18th. How are you determining the schedule is so easy, after all the games have been played? Using that perspective, the games being played effect the strength of schedule as the season progresses. 

as for talent the 2009 and 2010 team were stacked. OL was better and Marshall/Decker isn't that much better than Braylon/Santonio. 

I still don't like the 25 years cut off point. It's cherry picking. I can't talk about 1986?

the 2 worst divisions in football were the NFC east and AFC South.  we played every team from those divisions.

our other AFC games were the awful browns and mediocre Raiders and then 6 games in the AFC east where we only played one good team.

[Integrity28]

except for the small fact I haven't been proven wrong and the attacks aren't the weak attempts to prove me wrong but the childish insults being hurled at me.  if you would like to debate me please do although I would actually like a challenge but please stop w/ the nonsense.

Okay, then consider this a debate over hypocrisy and personal attacks.

You lose.

 

[bostonmajet]

we don't know what happens if Manning and co. stay in.  that game was close when they sat but yes we did have some luck and we took advantage, this year we had more luck and failed to take advantage.

Sorry, I would have to disagree; what great luck did we not take advantage of (other than Steelers loosing a second time to their division rival - who had more severe injuries)? Rex only needed to go 9-7 to make the playoffs (that was the luck) we had to go 11-5; Sorry, but whether we win or not, a team benching their starting QB vs. a team whose 'super bowl' is to beat you are completely different.  Sure, maybe we win that game, but if Indy's super bowl was to beat us, we likely go 8-8.

As for loosing to Buffalo twice, I think Rex having known the players had an advantage as well as marginal weather and more experience - still we hung in there.  Hopefully next year is different.

[bitonti]

the 2 worst divisions in football were the NFC east and AFC South.  we played every team from those divisions.

our other AFC games were the awful browns and mediocre Raiders and then 6 games in the AFC east where we only played one good team.

so basically you are making it up. the mediocre Raiders in Oakland are 14-6-1 vs Jets all time 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/oakland-raiders/teamvsteam?opp=22&ha=H 

18th is what they were. A little above average SoS compared to the rest of the league. 

[bitonti]

Dude, we're on a 5 game losing streak to the Bills. 5 games, not 1....5. 

How long has Rex been the HC over there? lol. 

2 out of those 5 he was the HC.  He's bedeviled Fitzpatrick before 

[nyjunc]

Sorry, I would have to disagree; what great luck did we not take advantage of (other than Steelers loosing a second time to their division rival - who had more severe injuries)? Rex only needed to go 9-7 to make the playoffs (that was the luck) we had to go 11-5; Sorry, but whether we win or not, a team benching their starting QB vs. a team whose 'super bowl' is to beat you are completely different.  Sure, maybe we win that game, but if Indy's super bowl was to beat us, we likely go 8-8.

As for loosing to Buffalo twice, I think Rex having known the players had an advantage as well as marginal weather and more experience - still we hung in there.  Hopefully next year is different.

we had a creampuff sched

Miami and Buffalo weren't very good

Fitz had a career year

we were very healthy

Pitt loses to an awful Baltimore w/ a QB they signed that week.

you can't ask for anything easier.

 

on the surface 9 is less than 11 but each year is different, there weren't as many bad teams that year.

 

yes b/c peyton manning never loses big games we were down 5 midway through 3rd qtr, we have no idea how the game plays out if they don't come out.  do we likely lose? yes but it's not a guarantee.  Remember the div rd at SD? similar situation, down 4 midway through the 3rd.  if that is week 16 and they rest starters people would say we never would have had a shot but we played it out and we won.

knowing players isn't n excuse, he knew his Ravens and we never beat them.  weather isn't an excuse, he had his team more prepared, our team was not prepared.

 

[nyjunc]

so basically you are making it up. the mediocre Raiders in Oakland are 14-6-1 vs Jets all time 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/oakland-raiders/teamvsteam?opp=22&ha=H 

18th is what they were. A little above average SoS compared to the rest of the league. 

what does Oakland beating us years ago in Oakland have to do w/ this year? oak was 3-5 at home this year w/ one of those wins against us.

again, we played the 2 worst divisions in football(8 games)

2 mediocre bad AFC teams(2 games)

6 div games where 4 of 6 were against mediocre/bad teams(4)

14 of 16 games against mediocre/bad teams. and the 2nd NE game they were incredibly banged up and in middle of losing 4 of 6 games.

[bitonti]

what does Oakland beating us years ago in Oakland have to do w/ this year?  

it's not a coincidence. It's a long ass flight and when you get there the field is half dirt. It's a tough place to play historically. 

18th was their strength of schedule. with 32nd being the easiest. You can make all these little judgments (the Pats were banged up but still cheating etc) but that doesn't change the fact they were 18th in SoS. It's fact. 

[nyjunc]

it's not a coincidence. It's a long ass flight and when you get there the field is half dirt. It's a tough place to play historically. 

18th was their strength of schedule. with 32nd being the easiest. You can make all these little judgments (the Pats were banged up but still cheating etc) but that doesn't change the fact they were 18th in SoS. It's fact. 

was the flight longer to Oakland or London?

we had never lost in GHouston until this year and only had 1 loss against them in their history, we hadn't beaten the Giants since 1993, we had never beaten the redskins at home.   things change, we got crushed in Oakland, looked a lot like we did at Buffalo but it doesn't change the fact oak was a mediocre team this year.

SOS #s mean nothing, we had a cupcake sched and yes injuries and when you play a team factor in. 

 

[bitonti]

SOS #s mean nothing, we had a cupcake sched 

if you say so

bottom line the team won 10 games but it wasn't enough. sh*t happens. It was still a good year. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 out of those 5 he was the HC.  He's bedeviled Fitzpatrick before 

True, but c'mon, this is Ryan Fitzpatrick we're talking about here. Yes Fitz had a good year statistically and cemented his first winning season, but career wise the man has been midpack at best and his W-L percentage against winning teams is terrible. sh*t, his winning percentage against non winning teams isnt great. 

[bitonti]

True, but c'mon, this is Ryan Fitzpatrick we're talking about here. Yes Fitz had a good year statistically and cemented his first winning season, but career wise the man has been midpack at best and his W-L percentage against winning teams is terrible. sh*t, his winning percentage against non winning teams isnt great. 

in light of that is it fair to expect this team to win more than 10 games? 

btw this is all tru, fitz is a flawed player but he's also the best QB the team has had since that year they had Farve and his dick pics.

Best case they sign him to a deal with only 2 years or so guaranteed and draft another QB high. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

True, but c'mon, this is Ryan Fitzpatrick we're talking about here. Yes Fitz had a good year statistically and cemented his first winning season, but career wise the man has been midpack at best and his W-L percentage against winning teams is terrible. sh*t, his winning percentage against non winning teams isnt great. 

That may be true, but it may be more prudent to focus on, say, Fitz's last 2 seasons, where he is 16-10 in 26 starts with 48 TD's (53 including rushing) to 23 INT's...this playing with two first year NFL coaches on teams that had a combined record of 6-26 the year before. Easy schedule? Bet every team's fans that he played against marked games against his teams as being easy or at least winnable.  

[bostonmajet]

we had a creampuff sched

Miami and Buffalo weren't very good

Fitz had a career year

we were very healthy

Pitt loses to an awful Baltimore w/ a QB they signed that week.

you can't ask for anything easier.

 

on the surface 9 is less than 11 but each year is different, there weren't as many bad teams that year.

 

yes b/c peyton manning never loses big games we were down 5 midway through 3rd qtr, we have no idea how the game plays out if they don't come out.  do we likely lose? yes but it's not a guarantee.  Remember the div rd at SD? similar situation, down 4 midway through the 3rd.  if that is week 16 and they rest starters people would say we never would have had a shot but we played it out and we won.

knowing players isn't n excuse, he knew his Ravens and we never beat them.  weather isn't an excuse, he had his team more prepared, our team was not prepared.

we had a creampuff sched - actually more middle of the road at the end; of course if we were as bad as people say - and lost the games the schedule would have been harder - beating them counts against us in overall strength of schedule;

Miami and Buffalo weren't very good - isn't this the same as above; we play in the same division as pats; if we were in the AFC south we win the division at 10-6; so not so lucky I guess

Fitz had a career year - really that is LUCK; we traded for him, he practiced hard, the team put him in position to succeed, but this is LUCK?

we were very healthy - we lost Ivory for several games; we lost Powell for several games; guys were nicked up; our Kicker was lost for the season stretching; Revis out several weeks with concussion; Williams out, ... we had more than our fair share of injuries...

Pitt loses to an awful Baltimore w/ a QB they signed that week; yes Pitt lost, but to a division rival that matches up well; my point about loosing to Buffalo - sorry you don't buy the Rex knows the players - it is a huge deal; sometimes teams sign a player to get insight; may not always be enough but in a close game it can make a big difference.

On the surface 9 is less than 11 but each year is different, there weren't as many bad teams that year - this is my favorite; YES I can tell you that not only does 9 appear to be different than 11, it is actually less than 11.  Bad enough that you hand pick your truths, but MATH should not be negotiable. I also seem to remember, in addition to being 9-7 we had to have some teams loose - that wasn't lucky?

You can't ask for anything easier - Yep you got it; cake walk, my old high school team could win 11 games; especially against Miami (who beat the Pats); Texans get to win their division at 9-7 - that is easier; Not having to play a bitter ex-coach who has nothing to lose to get into the playoffs - that would be easier; 

So, I get it, sitting the starting QB in a game (where I think the backups first series was a sack in end zone or something like that) isn't a gift, but 10 games this year isn't as impressive as 9 that year. To quote a poster here 'Good Grief'

[Villain The Foe]

in light of that is it fair to expect this team to win more than 10 games? 

btw this is all tru, fitz is a flawed player but he's also the best QB the team has had since that year they had Farve and his dick pics.

Best case they sign him to a deal with only 2 years or so guaranteed and draft another QB high. 

Based on the schedule and level of talent on the team? Yes. 

Fitz is flawed personally, but the team as a unit should have made the playoffs "despite his flaws" (my Mark Sanchez reference there lol)

Best case they dont sign him to a ridiculous 8-10 million per year contract. You can trade for Glennon, lose a 3rd or 4th rounder and pay a fraction of that money and get similar production at minimum. Its already evident that if you take a way the quick pass with your D-linemen interrupting the throwing windows as well as taking away the intermediate pass then there is nothing that Fitz can do given that he cant force you to respect the deep pass. This his precisely what Rex did, and soon other teams will follow suit and we'll be left holding the bag paying this dude top QB money because he broke a bunch of Jets records that should have been broken 15 years ago when the league converted to a passing league. Its a damn shame that those records stood that long in this era of the game. Goes to show the lack of talent and understanding this team put into and around that position. 

This is why I dont get down on Geno that harshly. The Jets outside of this year has never shown that they knew what the hell they were doing on the offensive side of the ball. We shoudl have hired Casserly/Wolf and traded for Marshall a decade ago. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

Based on the schedule and level of talent on the team? Yes. 

Fitz is flawed personally, but the team as a unit should have made the playoffs "despite his flaws" (my Mark Sanchez reference there lol)

Best case they dont sign him to a ridiculous 8-10 million per year contract. You can trade for Glennon, lose a 3rd or 4th rounder and pay a fraction of that money and get similar production at minimum. Its already evident that if you take a way the quick pass with your D-linemen interrupting the throwing windows as well as taking away the intermediate pass then there is nothing that Fitz can do given that he cant force you to respect the deep pass. This his precisely what Rex did, and soon other teams will follow suit and we'll be left holding the bag paying this dude top QB money because he broke a bunch of Jets records that should have been broken 15 years ago when the league converted to a passing league. Its a damn shame that those records stood that long in this era of the game. Goes to show the lack of talent and understanding this team put into and around that position. 

This is why I dont get down on Geno that harshly. The Jets outside of this year has never shown that they knew what the hell they were doing on the offensive side of the ball. We shoudl have hired Casserly/Wolf and traded for Marshall a decade ago. 

Tyrod Taylor threw not one deep pass in the game yet won..people have been saying this about Fitz, yet he has been winning games by spreading the field, not drinking and dunking. Other teams will soon be following suit? Message board afficianados have been harping on this for years and now all of a sudden this particular loss, where the team played like garbage and Fitz, with a plethora of dropped balls and lack of a running game, comes up short throwing all game into thirty mile an hour winds, cause Lord knows he didn't even have the ball with the wind for more than a few plays....now, all of a sudden he has been exposed? Please...Thankfully, Bowles, Marshall, and most everyone else wants him back...and who the hell is Glennon and why on earth would you dismantle a record setting, top ten offense to bring in a total unproven...hmm, let me guess, because he has a big arm! 

[Freemanm]

I keep replaying that scenario from the 14 yard line in my head...I know we burned a time out in the third quarter, but that may have been a great time to use another one. Fitz had just taken a big shot to the head, and we absolutely had to come away with a score there. A run or a dump off pass would have been ideal on first down to get closer and perhaps set up a play action fade pass, where either our guy makes a play or it goes out of bounds. A third down run or Fitz scramble either gets us the first down or TD, and if not, kick that field goal and take the lead. Even Bullock in the wind should hit from 25 yards out...ugh, I know, time to move on. Playoffs will be tough to watch this year.

Dude, stop torturing yourself. I've already been relegated to watching professional wrestling until the Mets season starts. Thinking about "what ifs" will simply make me want to cry

[Villain The Foe]

Tyrod Taylor threw not one deep pass in the game yet won..people have been saying this about Fitz, yet he has been winning games by spreading the field, not drinking and dunking. Other teams will soon be following suit? Message board afficianados have been harping on this for years and now all of a sudden this particular loss, where the team played like garbage and Fitz, with a plethora of dropped balls and lack of a running game, comes up short throwing all game into thirty mile an hour winds, cause Lord knows he didn't even have the ball with the wind for more than a few plays....now, all of a sudden he has been exposed? Please...Thankfully, Bowles, Marshall, and most everyone else wants him back...and who the hell is Glennon and why on earth would you dismantle a record setting, top ten offense to bring in a total unproven...hmm, let me guess, because he has a big arm! 

Comparing a guy who didnt throw one deep pass in a game but can obviously throw a deep pass makes no sense. comparing a guy who didnt throw one deep pass because Watkins was wide open on every 7 yard slant makes no sense. For the fact that Bowles played zone the entire game because he was AFRAID of the deep pass and being "beat over the top" in intself proves my point. The Bills won because of their ability to threaten with the deep pass. 

 

I literally stopped reading at the end of the highlighted. 

[nyjunc]

if you say so

bottom line the team won 10 games but it wasn't enough. sh*t happens. It was still a good year. 

sh*t happened b/c we couldn't beat a dead team that we were much better than in week 17.  10 wins means nothing w/o postseason. 

it was a decent year but not a success.  if we had a ton of young talent and they were developing/learning how to win I would say it was a success but we had a vet team and everything broke perfectly.

[ScarletKnight89]

True, but c'mon, this is Ryan Fitzpatrick we're talking about here. Yes Fitz had a good year statistically and cemented his first winning season, but career wise the man has been midpack at best and his W-L percentage against winning teams is terrible. sh*t, his winning percentage against non winning teams isnt great. 

The big question is going to be whether or not Fitz can repeat the year he had this year, next year. He's had success in Gailey's system in the past so I'm going to be optimistic and say he can. He's the best QB we've had since Pennington IMO, that's not saying much cause we have had garbage in between but it's the truth.

If Fitz can play well again next year, with the improvements I expect the team to make, I see no reason why this team can't win double digit games again.

[#27TheDominator]

Comparing a guy who didnt throw one deep pass in a game but can obviously throw a deep pass makes no sense. comparing a guy who didnt throw one deep pass because Watkins was wide open on every 7 yard slant makes no sense. For the fact that Bowles played zone the entire game because he was AFRAID of the deep pass and being "beat over the top" in intself proves my point. The Bills won because of their ability to threaten with the deep pass. 

 

I literally stopped reading at the end of the highlighted. 

I don't think the zone was because of the deep ball.  I think the zone was because otherwise the DBs have their backs to the QB and when he takes off he is gone.  I didn't have a problem with playing zone, but it was too soft.  The 4th and 6th to Watkins was a joke.  He caught and 8 yard pass and Gilchrist was still 5 yards off of him.

[Villain The Foe]

 

The big question is going to be whether or not Fitz can repeat the year he had this year, next year. He's had success in Gailey's system in the past so I'm going to be optimistic and say he can. He's the best QB we've had since Pennington IMO, that's not saying much cause we have had garbage in between but it's the truth.

If Fitz can play well again next year, with the improvements I expect the team to make, I see no reason why this team can't win double digit games again.

Its hard for me to say. Because statistically its hard to say that you're wrong, but at the same time it would be hard to say that Fitz was more talented than Penny or Favre. You present a fair point though. 

I think Fitz is in a space where he'd have to do it more than once to convince me. To be fair, when I officially became convinced that this guy could get us to the playoffs (Patriots game) I seen fitz make some big boy plays. Then 7 days later we seen what happened. We've seen things like this happen many times at many positions. Sometimes players are not as good as their "best year", and though Fitz has a great 11th year the man didnt have an impressive first 10. 

To be as fair as possible I will say, that Mike Glennon doesnt burn up the charts statistically so going off of a bunch of stats dont really tell the story when having this convo with someone who's actually watched Fitz for the first 10 years like the way I've watched Glennon for his first 2 years. Many things simply wont show up on a statline. I dont think I've been debating with guys who've watched atleast half of Fitz career though, then again thats an assumption because I really dont know. 

THE POINT IS....Im skeptical. I will say this though, Ryan Fitzpatrick proves that if you take a guy and put talent around him he can be productive, "cough" Geno Smith "Cough". lol. 

[ScarletKnight89]

Its hard for me to say. Because statistically its hard to say that you're wrong, but at the same time it would be hard to say that Fitz was more talented than Penny or Favre. You present a fair point though. 

I think Fitz is in a space where he'd have to do it more than once to convince me. To be fair, when I officially became convinced that this guy could get us to the playoffs (Patriots game) I seen fitz make some big boy plays. Then 7 days later we seen what happened. We've seen things like this happen many times at many positions. Sometimes players are not as good as their "best year", and though Fitz has a great 11th year the man didnt have an impressive first 10. 

To be as fair as possible I will say, that Mike Glennon doesnt burn up the charts statistically so going off of a bunch of stats dont really tell the story when having this convo with someone who's actually watched Fitz for the first 10 years like the way I've watched Glennon for his first 2 years. Many things simply wont show up on a statline. I dont think I've been debating with guys who've watched atleast half of Fitz career though, then again thats an assumption because I really dont know. 

THE POINT IS....Im skeptical. I will say this though, Ryan Fitzpatrick proves that if you take a guy and put talent around him he can be productive, "cough" Geno Smith "Cough". lol. 

I'm not totally anti Geno. If he's on the team next year he should compete for the job in training camp. Regardless of what people think of Geno Smith's football IQ, the guy has a great arm, good size for the position, and can move in the pocket while still being a throw first QB. He's running out of chances and/or opportunities though.

It's not really about stats with Fitz as much as it is the familiarity of the system for me. He seemed very comfortable all year and if he can play well for us I just think he's a good guy to have play the position while you develop a young guy behind him.

[bitonti]

  we had a vet team and everything broke perfectly.

the franchise player broke his leg in the third quarter. It wasn't that perfect. All this whining and moaning we'd be looking at a team without arguably it's best player going into the playoffs. Not ideal.