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2016 Mets Thread!

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Adam Rubin ESPN Staff Writer 

Kelly Johnson, who joined the Mets with Juan Uribe a week before the trade deadline, is returning to the Atlanta Braves as a free agent, MLB.com's Mark Bowman reports.

IMO this is a big mistake for the Mets not re-signing him. And he is signing a one year contract for only 2 mil. When you look at his stats last year for the entire season it is way above that contract. Not sure if the Mets were interested or he just wanted to go back to the Braves. Maybe his family still lives there or something. But he would to me have been a good signing.

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Sandy has already said that the budget for '16 will be about 115. And that he has no interest in Cespedes. He calls him a non-fit because he'd have to play center field. I mean you don't sigh Cespedes for his defense do you anyways. So the plan looks similar to last year: under spend and hope you are in contention around July and then use your minor league system to make deals for bats. (somebody like Cargo). You pay a portion of their salary and then let them go after the season. The assumption being that you will have a decent record like last year going into the stretch. That's a big assumption. And that you can make a deal for a big hitter. Last season Sandy waited until 15 minutes left before the deadline before agreeing to the Cespy trade. Another team could have made a deal for him while he was holding his cards. You see teams like the Giants (who have recent big time success) not waiting and signing free agents (mostly middle tier) to rebuild their roster. To me this is the way to go. 115 doesn't hack it. Too bad we have to work around this ownership. 

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Dude. We get it.

Ok. But if you're a Mets fan some things have to be said. You can't just accept what they're doing and act like it's alright. If you disagree then NP (no problem). 

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They're depending on great and at this time inexpensive pitching to get them through at least until August. While most competitive orgs are building a team for the entire season. It's a good plan only if you're an org with no money,  Or who doesn't want to spend any. Again this is NYC not the boondocks. 

 

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As fans we can complain. What are we supposed to do be quiet about it. And one of the reasons imo they did take action last year at the trade deadline was because not only the fans but the media complained about the kind of lineup they were willing to put on the field the first half of the season. Sandy did a good job last year but before that we were a sub .500 team with AAA players starting in the lineup. And some of the FA signings weren't very good even the few where they spent moderate amounts of money. I disagree with the philosophy that we coast it until August and then buy a bat. Good orgs don't do this kind of stuff. It's a crap shoot. As for Cespy Sandy has already stated he won't re-sign him. And there are rumors he will sign with several teams. People also said that about Murphy and he signed with our biggest competitor. Don't worry somebody will pay him but not the Mets. 

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You can do what you want, I just see it as a waste of air in this instance.  If the team starts out 2016 like they did in 2015, sure, that will be very valid.  But right now I don't see too many reasons to complain until there's a legitimate reason to do so.

 

To a long-term deal, no.  You are correct that he is unwilling to do that.  And there appear to be 0 other teams out there in a rush to give him one either.  Sandy has stated he'd be willing to bring him back on a 1-year deal.  The longer this offseason goes, the greater the odds that that could actually happen.

 

And they will fairly quickly find that this will be a mistake in Washington.  He's a defensive liability more suited for the American League, and will never again hit like he did in the 2015 postseason.  It handed us an extra 1st rounder as well, for which I am thankful. 

While I expect a bounceback year for them to some degree, I see little reason to fear the Nationals, and especially not because of Daniel Murphy.  They're doing a great job wasting the talent they have, and I have little doubt they haven't been learning many lessons as an organization.

Come on now. Wash needed a left handed bat in their lineup and they just got one of the best in the NL. It was a good signing for them. His errors not withstanding I still say he is ok defensively despite the obvious guffaws that drew fans attention. Overall he can play a fair second base and is better at 3rd and at 1st. 

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I'll take d'Aza because at least it's something. And a legit MLB bat but on the cheaper side. But the last time Sandy signed a FA outfielder it was Chris Young who got $7 mil for one year after a bad season in Oakland. It didn't work out. And they cut him in August. As it turns out that was even a worse decision than signing him. He came alive for the Yankees and even though we were paying him played pretty well that last 2 months of the season. Not a great front office move. 

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Your underestimation of how bad Murphy is in the field is simply baffling.  There's both qualitative (error in the World Series) and quantitative (posted by me in the other thread) evidence that he's the game's worst starting defensive 2B right now.  Just saying you think he's "OK" defensively doesn't make it true.  He literally costs his teams games with his defense.  That's a problem, and one I'm glad is Washington's problem and not ours. 

I'd take Murphy anytime. He's a Mets player and it would be nice to keep our better guys. Plus he wanted to stay here. One thing great about last year's team was the loyalty the players had to each other and the manager. But Neil Walker is pretty good, too and better in the field.than Murph. But they had to give up Niese for him and Walker is only signed for one year. Which for Sandy is good news because he has no intention on paying Walker after 2016. He wants that draft pick bad. 

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Again I disagree about Murph being such a terrible fielder. He actually made some pretty good plays and usually was satisfactory but the fans remember those big errors of his which were occasional not all of the time. As for preparing for this coming season you have to look at the smarter orgs like the Cardinals and the Giants. They are not playing for half a season. They are adding to their rosters and filling them out so they have MLB players on the entire 25. You just have to say that the Mets are not doing this. They did a little and Cabrera is an upgrade at short. A good signing. btw one guy I'm kind of worried about is Travis. HIs hitting went down and so did his throwing. He basically did not throw out a runner the entire last month of the season. This is kind of troubling and might necessitate if it continues a change in position for him. 

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Look, Grandy had a good year in 2015. His performance was better than his stats were. But no guarantee that he will duplicate this although I think he will. Because previous to 2015, based on his 2014 production, he was not a good signing for the Mets. Maybe with Kevin Long he was improved. Let's hope so. I like the guy personally and hope he does well. Can't say the same for all pro athletes including guys on teams I root for. Some of these guys are just jerkoffs but Grandy is a cool guy. 

 

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 What most Mets fans want is to build on the pitching staff and give them adequate weapons to last an entire season. And to have a competitive payroll, not bottom ten. And not to play cheapball and hope that the team is competitive going into the trade deadline. What we've seen so far this off season is unsatisfactory.

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The latest rumor has Cespy going to the Orioles, or at least they supposedly have offered him a contract. A few on this board seem to get pissed if you criticize management or don't accept the status quo being given us by the Wilpons and Sandy.Maybe they are Mets shareholders, they sure act like it. And bring up being in the WS in 2015 And say stuff like "well, what do you want!". The only reason for any of that was because they anted up money for a few bats. (and not that much) They would never have even made the playoffs without those deals Even with our starting pitching.And that's the point.. So when your outfield is basically weak offensively and all you do is sign d'Aza, There's reason for complaining. It's 2016. 

Edited by Rangers9

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Just see what other teams are doing. Including teams that regularly make the playoffs and  win World Series. What was the Mets record playing cheapball before 2015 when their starting pitching and relief pitching kicked in.  And why do we always have to be on the short end of contracts. Low ball one year deals or half year rentals. What's wrong with criticizing. I thought this was supposed to be the hot stove league. We could be lucky and get in again but imo the 115 isn't going to do it. The 25 we have without a power bat will not fully support the starting pitching. We saw that in 2015.

 

Edited by Rangers9

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Davis is signing with Baltimore for 161 million. So Cespedes looks like he would not go there long term to afford both of those big contracts

What I read is that the Mets are offering Cespy 18-22 per on a 1-3 year deal. If true this is not unreasonable. I assume the longer the deal the less per season. Maybe 3-50 plus. 

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Cespy turned down 5-90 (and free crab cakes for life) with the Orioles. The Mets have already stated they won't go in that direction (in terms of length of contract). I think if that's his best offer and another team duplicates it he'll end up taking it. Because it's doubtful he will play at this level after 3 seasons. He wants a six year deal so he can get paid even after his skills diminish.  

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Look NImmo is not a consideration in signing Yo. He has no body of work to even compare with him. And you can say the same for the excuse of where to play him long term. With a bat like that you find a place for him and the guy is a good defensive outfielder. But they have already stated they won't give him more than 3 years. If we do sign him we are legit contenders. 

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We're legit contenders if we don't sign Cespy.

 

Nimmo is in the equation one way or the other, and a small part of the reason they're not going long term on Cespy.

 

But everybody is balking on going long term, for a lot of reasons.

 

Throwing a long term big deal at Cespy guarantees nothing. But could comprise a teams ability to sustain a balanced complete line up long term

 

 

First why would any Mets fan be against giving Cespy a competitive deal. There's a big hole without him in the lineup. And the only reason we made the playoffs last year was because we added him. We have the starting pitching and the closer to win and some good position players but overall the offense and depth is just average or below average. We could take a chance and get lucky or wait until the trade deadline. But our team payroll of reportedly (by Sandy) 115 is very low. I'm just hoping that going into 2016 our entire roster is MLB not Pacific Coast League. 

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Entire roster?  I don't think any of the 30 teams out there have a roster stocked with pure MLB talent.  Maybe the Cubs?

Our roster on opening day 2016 is pretty significantly better and more competitive than it was on opening day 2015, whether Cespedes is here or not.

Before Cespy last year we were last or next to last in offense  the NL in offense last season. After him at the top of the league. We also lost Murphy. And Niese who pitched well last season. I hope they have a few more signings even if not Cespy to improve the roster and not rely on guys like Campbell. Right now the Mets are not significantly better. 

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Conforto, Neil Walker, and Asdrubal Cabrera represent upgrades at 3 starting positions from where we were on opening day 2015.  Most importantly, our depth at 2B, SS, 3B and OF are also significantly better as a result.  We won't need to call up the Eric Campbell's of the world if we suffer some injuries like we did last year.  So yes, we are significantly better, right now.

IMO not enough offense. And not sure that Walker is an upgrade. I think we need Murphy's bat. Him and Cespy were are best offensive players last year. But Walker is a good player. And Cabrera is an upgrade, but not by that much. I don't see a 25 without the Campbells and the Vegas Express. And btw we gave up a good innings eater in Niese to get Walker for only one season. When we could have re-signed our own 2nd baseman for not that much (12 mil per season). Sandy when he made the Walker deal killed two birds with one stone for the Wilpons. He didn't want to pay Niese double figures or Murphy. He is hoping that Herrera is ready to start in 2016. I'll say it again. Good orgs don't operate like this hoping that players (with low contracts) are MLB ready and not competitive in free agency. If they don't sign Cespy and that's doubtful I  hope at least he signs a couple of lower tier MLB bats and does not again dip into Vegas for bats because those guys can't hit big league pitching. 

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Bastardo is a good relief pitcher. And he's a lefty. It might mean the Mets are considering using a relief pitcher in a trade. I'm surprised they gave him the 12 mil but this kind of monetary figure seems to be what they are willing to work with. It's ok if you fill your roster with guys like this esp if they play hard and are overachievers. KC basically did this a year ago and it worked pretty well didn't it. As for offense again, you have a lot of question marks going into the season. Neil Walker isn't one of them, he's a good, consistent player. But Lucas Duda is. His slumps really held the team back during the season. One bright spot for him is that after having long periods with terrible at bats he did seem to improve at the end of the year and in the playoffs and wasn't always swinging at bad pitches. But to assume this will be the norm is being optimistic. I can only go by what I've seen of him and he's brutally inconsistent. I'm also not confident about Wright. He is not a big time player at this stage of his career. But I hope both guys have great seasons. That would bail Sandy and the Wilpons out just the way our starting pitching and Cespy did last year. But great starting pitching isn't enough. You can't have bottom of the league offense if you want to win. The Mets didn't last year until they made those deals. 

Edited by Rangers9

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Again you're just reposting the same old nonsense.

Show us how our entire roster is Pacific Coast League?  It's already been pointed out that the line-up as it stands today is better than last seasons first half one and that there were reasons other than Cespedes that caused the team to take off. 

Points to consider: Does Cespedes want to play CF?.....can he play CF long term? Why did he have his career year in his contact year?  Also your logic in an earlier post saying Sandy is hoping Herrera is MLB ready based on his Neise trade is silly.

If Cespedes doesn't sign here we get a bat at the deadline if needed....I'd take Joey Bats if available as he is in a walk year with Toronto.

OK so what were the team's offensive stats before and after those late July trades. Bottom of the league before near the top after. The Mets don't even make the playoffs and probably only finish around .500 without those deals. The CF topic is a lot of nonsense. Cespy can play center or shift between center and left field. He's a lot more essential to the Mets in 2016 than either Lagares or Conforto who is being overrated by overzealous fans. He is a good young player but not a proven player yet. He is not in Cespy's class. And while the lineup might be better than a year ago it isn't better than it was 4 months ago. And that's where you make the comparison.

Edited by Rangers9

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First: what are talking about regarding Mets fans arguing against a competitive deal? Like wtf yo?

 

You're claiming that the season is coming down to Cespy signing or not....and that's just stupid and clueless.

 

As of right now it appears that the Mets are in competition for Cespy. Irregardless of some fans whining and whimpering about offering him some ridiculous long term monster deal just weeks ago......

 

And the team is way way way ahead of last year at this time. You're just droning on and on with some serious tired sh*t

It's not just about Cespy. It's about not really being competitive for free agents. And having one of the lowest payrolls in the league. You obviously are ok with that.

Edited by Rangers9

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The Nats have made an offer to Cespedes. I think a multi year deal but under Upton money,. 

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Basically what I read from either Cespy or his agent was that he wants to come back to the Mets. But he won't give the Mets a hometown discount. They said if offers were equal he'd choose the Mets. If he signs with the Nats this means our two best hitters from 2015 are in Washington. Latest is that the Mets have offered him a 3 year deal with an opt out for Yo after one season. Which means if he has a huge season he can be a FA again. But Wash has offered him five years. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14625273/yoenis-cespedes-new-york-mets-discuss-3-year-deal-opt-first-season

 

Edited by Rangers9

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When panic comes from a snow storm, people buy bread and milk.

What happens when there is panic with Mets moves, do people run out and buy Rangers tickets?

No panic, it's just that as a long time Mets fan I'd like to see the team be competitive in the off season just like any contending team does. Whatever the case I'll root for them 100% even though I despise their ownership. I blame a lot of this on the Commissioner's office for consistently backing the Wilpons. Not only Bud Selig but the new Commish too. They are letting them water down the MLB brand in it's most major market. 

Edited by Rangers9

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Yup. last year was the last straw for me too. Sucks we have to put up with this.

I'm glad you're satisfied. 

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Yeah, that was utter bs Familia blowing that save in Game 1. And Cespy not hitting the whole series. Unacceptable was the state of affairs with the team at that point.

I really don't know what your point is. If you're satisfied with the direction of the org then ok. IMO just like last summer I knew with our pitching we had a great opportunity to compete and maybe make a run of it. Same with this season but you need more offense. You don't give up your two best bats to someone in your division.

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Mets ownership just put the team in a good position to compete this season, There will be 5 good outfielders playing 3 positions and when you're playing 162 they all will get on the field substantially.  It also helps the other players like Wright having a guy like him in the lineup that other teams might sometimes try to pitch around. They will all get more good pitches to hit like they did last summer. Whatever the reason they pulled the trigger on this deal, I give them credit for making this happen. I think not out of the kindness of their hearts but due to pressure from the fans and media. Similar to last summer when it was obvious that the pitching wasn't enough for them to make the playoffs And similar imo to Woody signing Revis. As for the 27.5 for one season if he opts out I guess that was something Yo's agent worked into the deal. The Mets did not match the Wash 100 mil deal (5 years) which on a per season basis is more economical. They were looking for total financial obligation: they'd rather pay him 75 for 3 years in his prime and forgo the last 2 years at a bargain rate. So at most they pay him 27.5 or 75. He probably only accepted the Mets offer because they overpaid for the years on his deal. 

Edited by Rangers9
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Isn't Josh Edgin coming back, too. Not sure if he will be ready for the beginning of the season but he would give us another pretty good left hander out of the bullpen. That's why I was kind of surprised they signed Bastardo. If these bullpen chips like Edgin, Blevins and Mejia come back to form we have a great bullpen. And guys who could step in to close if any injury to our guy, Familia. I'd like to see them get a little more bench strangth, maybe re-sign Uribe. I thought the best guy to re-sign (and the cheapest) would have been Kelly Johnson but he went back to the Braves.

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So here to me is the bottom line for the 2016 Mets: on paper we have the starting pitching to get us to at least the 7th inning with a lead or allowing 3 runs or under. And we have the bullpen to consistently keep a lead and give us big stats on holding onto a lead late into a game. The closer is one of the best in baseball. We have the offense to be competitive and score runs. In other words we can take advantage of our pitching because there are bonafide bats in the lineup. We also have depth esp on the pitching staff with guys like Wheeler eventually coming back.  And that's all you can ask for an organization to give you. Plus we have a good manager. A guy who relates to the players, someone who they respect. OK we are sometimes perplexed by his moves but you can say that for any manager. We should this season be the favorite to win the NL East. Even though Wash is pretty good and should have an improved year. And they have a better manager than they did last season in Dusty Baker. 

Edited by Rangers9

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I have a feeling Rafael Montero is going to be the big surprise for us (in a good way).  Let's hope Wright and D'Arnaud can stay healthy.

I have to admit I'm worried about Travis. While at times he had big offensive surges he slumped a lot too. And he didn't throw out a runner for over a month. Not sure if he had some kind of injury. But you can't have a catcher who everyone runs on unless he's Mike Piazza and Travis isn't, We have a good young backup catcher who got a lot of playing time last year and could be a potential starting catcher. He should play a lot this coming year. If Travis doesn't come through with his throwing they might have to consider a position change. 

Edited by Rangers9

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Good point about getting those 1st round draft picks. Because a first round draft selection has a monetary value. And as you see with our starting pitchers we have them under contract for a number of years before they can get top money, so if they are fast developing players like Conforto you get that extra value. That's why drafting college players is a good idea.  As for first base. Smith so far looks like a good prospect. And to me Lucas Duda is still a questionable commodity. Hopefully he has a consistent year and doesn't have to adjust his swing to lower his power. He looked better at the end of the season and wasn't swinging at pitches way out of the strike zone. 

Edited by Rangers9

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Duda put the team on his back three for different stretches last season and looked good in the post season. Seriously dude...the minute we signed Cespedes you shifted your complaining to D'Arnaud and now Duda.  

So you think Duda had a good season. I guess you weren't watching the same team. And what's wrong with criticizing Mets players. I like Travis a lot but he didn't throw a baserunner out for over a month. That's a concern. If you want to be a Mets cheerleader ok with me. 

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Don't worry home boy, at least try not too. Sandy drafted the #3 1B prospect in MLB. It's covered bro

 

In the meantime Duda made himself into a good defensive player and he most likely gets 25-30  and 85 this year

 

But that's 'worrisome'...lol

 

But you wanna be a fake ass troll it's okay with me tho

 

 

A prospect isn't being covered. And I'm not a troll. And I'm not going to be waving any banners for Sandy or the org either. I don't forget or forgive the previous five seasons of spending no money and dipping into the farm system (for minor leaguers) which translated to 70 plus win seasons. I'm happy now because I think the org has given the team a chance to win. And that a 140 payroll while low is adequate. While I'm not for giving up on Duda last season he started to remind me of Ike Davis. Very inconsistent. But I think he needs another season to see how he does. He was looking better at the end of the year and maybe he was starting to put it together and listen to his hitting coach. If he goes into a deep black hole again he has to be replaced. 

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So why this attack from about 3 guys who constantly post about the Mets and don't like any criticism of the team. And are cheerleaders about Smith and some of their other unproven minor league prospects. I think if you were to poll Mets fans 95% would agree with me about the organization and the owners. And most are still angry about the previous 5 seasons of below average baseball and super low payroll.  I love the Mets, watch almost every game, I'm depressed when they lose but i want them to operate like a viable big league contender and a New York franchise. I'm not a troll but I'm not Mr. Met either. This team is not perfect and Sandy isn't god. He isn't responsible for 3 of the 5 elite Mets starters or Familia, etc and during his time here has not had a great record signing players (starting with Frank Francisco). But he did a great job last season and the org has put the Mets in a position to win this year. I don't ask any more than that. But unlike you I don't accept anything less. Before they signed Cespy you were calling me names because I said the Mets should raise their payroll and sign him or other offensive players. Not go into the season losing their two top hitters from 2015 to their main competition. 

Edited by Rangers9

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