2016 Mets Thread!

[BowlesMovement]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If there were any signs he'd be doing anything like this he'd have gotten paid a lot more by somebody.

For sure, I still think it was a no brainier to sign him for what he signed with the Nats for

[GimmeShelter]

5 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

For sure, I still think it was a no brainier to sign him for what he signed with the Nats for

He was the Nats third choice (Zobrist and Phillips were 1-2) so even they were not all in on this drastic change offensively that he has displayed.

It's incredible to watch right now except when it's against us but I think Sandy made the right decision. Walker has been fine offensively and a upgrade defensively but seeing what Murphy has done to the Mets specifically does sting and has probably been worth a game or three in the standings. 

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, GimmeShelter said:

He was the Nats third choice (Zobrist and Phillips were 1-2) so even they were not all in on this drastic change offensively that he has displayed.

It's incredible to watch right now except when it's against us but I think Sandy made the right decision. Walker has been fine offensively and a upgrade defensively but seeing what Murphy has done to the Mets specifically does sting and has probably been worth a game or three in the standings. 

To me it's not about Walker, it's more about Wright and Duda. Wright was a huge question mark, and Murphy was always a better offensive player than Duda. 

[GimmeShelter]

14 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Murphy was always a better offensive player than Duda. 

Murphy stays on the field where Duda has not. Duda up until this year has been the the better offensive player.

I completely understand your logic however in that Murphy could be playing 3rd or 1st for us right now with Flores or the kid in AAA handling 2B.

[JustInFudge]

This is so Mets.

How long of a contract did Murph sign?

 

[no psls]

We need a run . Who's going to come up BIG ???????????

[RutgersJetFan]

4 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

For sure, I still think it was a no brainier to sign him for what he signed with the Nats for

I think that's an easy one in hindsight given how he's hitting, but we'll see. Nobody saw this coming; I mean come on, the guy is hitting .500 against the Mets with a bajillion home runs. I think it's nuts to rip Alderson for not seeing this high of a statistical anomaly coming.

End of the day, the long game return on losing Murph is on Dilson, not Walker or really anything with this season. If Dilson pans out, it's all fine. If not, it's probably the worst move of his tenure here and that's saying a lot given that he's had some big blunders already as is.

[Jetsfan80]

Even in hindsight we made the right move.  I mean come on.  Cespedes + Walker + extra 1st round pick + not blocking Dilson's progress >>> Murphy + Niese (or whatever we would have gotten for Niese in an alternative trade).

I mean, I guess if you want to argue we could have played Murphy at 1B or 3B that hurts my argument.  But no one saw this kind of season coming for Murphy.  Nobody.  He was supposed to be AL-bound and not go to our top rival in the NL East, and him doing this for the Nats is painful to watch.  But it was always the right move to let him go.

[faba]

The Mets are anticpating Herrera taking that ;position and running with it- Walker was a one year fix but possible third base option next year. Murph i s just non stop since last years playoff and killing us this year

[adb280z]

13 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

To me it's not about Walker, it's more about Wright and Duda. Wright was a huge question mark, and Murphy was always a better offensive player than Duda. 

That's not accurate.  Duda has OPSed .830 two years in a row.

Murphy .730 in 2014 and .770 in 2015.

[adb280z]

13 hours ago, GimmeShelter said:

Murphy stays on the field where Duda has not. Duda up until this year has been the the better offensive player.

I completely understand your logic however in that Murphy could be playing 3rd or 1st for us right now with Flores or the kid in AAA handling 2B.

That's also not accurate.  Murphy missed 30 games last year and 15 the year before.  Neither has been overly durable.

[GimmeShelter]

6 hours ago, adb280z said:

That's also not accurate.  Murphy missed 30 games last year and 15 the year before.  Neither has been overly durable.

You're right.  I guess I never noticed before.

Whether he was on the field or not was never that big a deal (to me) until the second half of last season.

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even in hindsight we made the right move.  I mean come on.  Cespedes + Walker + extra 1st round pick + not blocking Dilson's progress >>> Murphy + Niese (or whatever we would have gotten for Niese in an alternative trade).

I mean, I guess if you want to argue we could have played Murphy at 1B or 3B that hurts my argument.  But no one saw this kind of season coming for Murphy.  Nobody.  He was supposed to be AL-bound and not go to our top rival in the NL East, and him doing this for the Nats is painful to watch.  But it was always the right move to let him go.

He's on a one man mission to tank the Mets season and he's succeeding and probably will succeed.  It just sucks.  This is insane.  And yes, the void at 1st and 3rd make this whole thing 10x worse. 

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

He's on a one man mission to tank the Mets season and he's succeeding and probably will succeed.  It just sucks.  This is insane.  And yes, the void at 1st and 3rd make this whole thing 10x worse. 

It reminds me of when the Jets traded Revis to the Bucs.  Was a good move at the time and even in hindsight it still was.  Wasn't our fault the Bucs were stupid and let him hit FA a year later, winning a SB with the Pats.  It made matters even worse that we were so incredibly bad at CB without him that season.  But it was still the right call.

Hopefully the Nats don't win the World Series while we miss the playoffs....but it seems predestined, does it not?

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It reminds me of when the Jets traded Revis to the Bucs.  Was a good move at the time and even in hindsight it still was.  Wasn't our fault the Bucs were stupid and let him hit FA a year later, winning a SB with the Pats.  It made matters even worse that we were so incredibly bad at CB without him that season.  But it was still the right call.

Hopefully the Nats don't win the World Series while we miss the playoffs....but it seems predestined, does it not?

100% happening.  100% 

 

[no psls]

20 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

End of the day, the long game return on losing Murph is on Dilson, not Walker or really anything with this season. If Dilson pans out, it's all fine. If not, it's probably the worst move of his tenure here and that's saying a lot given that he's had some big blunders already as is.

Dilson herrera will be another Gregg Jeffries .

[RutgersJetFan]

12 minutes ago, no psls said:

Dilson herrera will be another Gregg Jeffries .

Meh, your schtick is kind of over with me. You told another guy here to go beat his wife in response to him having a problem with Reyes choking his wife and putting her into a closet, which you should have been banned for and I have no idea why you weren't. We're done.

[no psls]

7 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Meh, your schtick is kind of over with me. You told another guy here to go beat his wife in response to him having a problem with Reyes choking his wife and putting her into a closet, which you should have been banned for and I have no idea why you weren't. We're done.

 

[RutgersJetFan]

Reports are that Nimmo is heading back down when Conforto gets called up.

I don't know, I get that young guys need games, but just DFA De Aza already and we can find a way to get Nimmo out there 3-4 days a week. His energy was a nice little bump for this team and De Aza is completely useless. He should not be on the team at this point.

[Jetsfan80]

44 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Reports are that Nimmo is heading back down when Conforto gets called up.

I don't know, I get that young guys need games, but just DFA De Aza already and we can find a way to get Nimmo out there 3-4 days a week. His energy was a nice little bump for this team and De Aza is completely useless. He should not be on the team at this point.

You could make a case that De Aza was Sandy's worst decision in his tenure.  Which means he's had a pretty damn good tenure.

[RutgersJetFan]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It reminds me of when the Jets traded Revis to the Bucs.  Was a good move at the time and even in hindsight it still was.  Wasn't our fault the Bucs were stupid and let him hit FA a year later, winning a SB with the Pats.  It made matters even worse that we were so incredibly bad at CB without him that season.  But it was still the right call.

Hopefully the Nats don't win the World Series while we miss the playoffs....but it seems predestined, does it not?

The Pagan trade (really just an all-time Mets deal there) and getting nothing for Reyes are 1a and 1b. If the Nats win the division by only a few games this year and Dilson doesn't pan out, Murphy probably winds up pwning all.

[Lizard King]

On July 10, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Even in hindsight we made the right move.  I mean come on.  Cespedes + Walker + extra 1st round pick + not blocking Dilson's progress >>> Murphy + Niese (or whatever we would have gotten for Niese in an alternative trade).

I mean, I guess if you want to argue we could have played Murphy at 1B or 3B that hurts my argument.  But no one saw this kind of season coming for Murphy.  Nobody.  He was supposed to be AL-bound and not go to our top rival in the NL East, and him doing this for the Nats is painful to watch.  But it was always the right move to let him go.

Yes it was and there is so much going on with this team besides Murphy making his loss look worse than it otherwise would. He's not the first average player to go on a super human streak after he left...and we also don't have Bryce Harper 

it does however resolidify my disgust with saber metrics 

if anything they should have traded Harvey last year which I was openly calling for. 

[adb280z]

Yes it was and there is so much going on with this team besides Murphy making his loss look worse than it otherwise would. He's not the first average player to go on a super human streak after he left...and we also don't have Bryce Harper 

it does however resolidify my disgust with saber metrics 

if anything they should have traded Harvey last year which I was openly calling for. 

What's wrong with sabermetrics?

[Lizard King]

10 minutes ago, adb280z said:

What's wrong with sabermetrics?

They're blood magic and you can't win the World Series with blood magic. 

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

They're blood magic and you can't win the World Series with blood magic. 

The 2004, 2007, and 2013 Red Sox say hello.  And quite possibly the 2016 Cubs.  All built with sabermetrics at their core. 

Certainly it doesn't get everything right, but as long as you don't completely take the human element out of it and treat it as more of a tool than a gospel, it has a lot more pros than cons.

[Lizard King]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The 2004, 2007, and 2013 Red Sox say hello.  And quite possibly the 2016 Cubs.  All built with sabermetrics at their core. 

Certainly it doesn't get everything right, but as long as you don't completely take the human element out of it and treat it as more of a tool than a gospel, it has a lot more pros than cons.

Except that Sandy treats it as gospel and there is no human element. I don't want to smash sandy too hard he is going through a lot 

[NYPaperAirplanes]

We got Jose and Duda is coming back. Still no news on Zach Wheeler. I think the second half will be great.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

Except that Sandy treats it as gospel and there is no human element. I don't want to smash sandy too hard he is going through a lot 

The dude traded a 40-year old R.A. Dickey for Thor and d'Arnaud.  And landed Cespedes even when people were screaming for Carlos Gomez.  The system has worked out for our favor many more times than it has failed.

[dbatesman]

59 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And landed Cespedes even when people were screaming for Carlos Gomez.

This is a pretty odd thing to give Alderson extra credit for.

[RutgersJetFan]

59 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is a pretty odd thing to give Alderson extra credit for.

Is it? Or was it such a brilliant move that it's still blowing your mind?

[RutgersJetFan]

Also what the hell am I supposed to complain about this week with no baseball?

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, Lizard King said:

Except that Sandy treats it as gospel and there is no human element. I don't want to smash sandy too hard he is going through a lot 

The funny thing is that the sabermetrically inclined FOs in the game have reputations for being the most expansive (more humans working) - employing the most scouts, the most coaches, and plenty of roving instructors as well as off field jobs. The Cubs, Rangers, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, probably the Mets, Dodgers...When the Cubs were decades behind others in baseball analytically their FO was also among the smallest in the game. They cut back scouting, they cut back in player development, and the org suffered for it on the field. Now they're one of the largest baseball operations out there.

I mean, it's 20****ing16, the whole stats vs. scouts thing died a decade ago. These people value things like makeup, scouting, clubhouse chemistry, and really always have. The Oakland A's, Alderson's old org where he was a mentor to a young Billy Beane, had one of the tightest clubhouses in the league during the early 2000s precisely because they put such an emphasis on makeup and the human element.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

This is a pretty odd thing to give Alderson extra credit for.

How so?  He never panicked, waited until the last possible moment at the trade deadline to make the big move for an OF, and got the best available on the market.  Cespedes then proceeded to dominate the latter third of the season. 

[Jetsfan80]

24 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also what the hell am I supposed to complain about this week with no baseball?

TC, in all likelihood, not allowing Bartolo to come to the plate tonight in the same park he hit his glorious HR in? 

[RutgersJetFan]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How so?  He never panicked, waited until the last possible moment at the trade deadline to make the big move for an OF, and got the best available on the market.  Cespedes then proceeded to dominate the latter third of the season. 

Because Alderson actually did try for Gonzalez over Ces. We got Cespedes because the CarGo deal fell through. Had Gonzalez not had a bad hip, Cespedes isn't a Met and we probably don't win the division last year.