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Joe Thomas?


SR24
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If this spread offense is really gonna work, we should invest the top-dollar contracts in a QB and skill players instead of paying premium dollar for o-line.  There is a reason the Jets allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the league and it's not because the o-line is great.  It's because Fitz has good pocket mobility (his footwork isn't textbook like Brady's but he gets it done), and the system is designed to get the ball out quickly.

They need to either restructure Brick down to $7-8 million or cut him because he's not worth his $14.1 million cap number.  And we can't replace Brick's contract with another like his.  I don't mind paying $8-10 million for a good tackle but the Joe Thomas level of contract doesn't really make sense for this system.

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If this spread offense is really gonna work, we should invest the top-dollar contracts in a QB and skill players instead of paying premium dollar for o-line.  There is a reason the Jets allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the league and it's not because the o-line is great.  It's because Fitz has good pocket mobility (his footwork isn't textbook like Brady's but he gets it done), and the system is designed to get the ball out quickly.

They need to either restructure Brick down to $7-8 million or cut him because he's not worth his $14.1 million cap number.  And we can't replace Brick's contract with another like his.  I don't mind paying $8-10 million for a good tackle but the Joe Thomas level of contract doesn't really make sense for this system.

Top dollar for Fitz, or another QB?  Which one?

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He's a year younger than Brick. One. Year.

 

We need a long term solution at tackle, not just a different way to (attempt to) delay the inevitable.

 

 

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The difference here is this cat play play either on the right side of the line or at his usual LT position and is a force in the running game at the POA along with being an excellent Pass protector.

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He's a year younger than Brick. One. Year.

 

We need a long term solution at tackle, not just a different way to (attempt to) delay the inevitable.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If his play has not dropped off like Brick's then really who cares about his age unless he wants a 27 year deal?

"Long term" in the NFL is three years nowadays.

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He's a year younger than Brick. One. Year.

 

We need a long term solution at tackle, not just a different way to (attempt to) delay the inevitable.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd generally agree, but with a veteran team of high priced players we are also in win-now mode (as well as planning for the future). I'd say it depends. Depends on if his play is still nearly as good as it was 3-5 years ago (I honestly don't know), because Brick is like a totally different player than he used to be, for the worse. Used to be an elite pass blocker and at least an adequate run blocker. No more. That's not enough in an era where even crappy offensive linemen are allowed to hold to protect the QB.

Questions are (1.) if Thomas is still just about as good as he used to be (a little drop-off is not concerning to me, considering how great he supposedly was); (2.) How much does he want (mostly in terms of how long are we locked into him; I'm fine with paying top dollar for an elite left tackle as long as he doesn't become a cap albatross we can't get out of until after he's become a liability (3.) duh - what would it take to pry him loose, assuming Cleveland is willing to move him in the first place.

Other than that, I'm ok with his age. I'm ok with Ferguson's age if he was still nearly what he once was. They're not RBs or CBs so each should still be in the league for another 4-5 seasons as long as they don't price themselves out of jobs. Even 3-4 years is plenty long-term enough to put off a hole at the position.

 

The difference here is this cat play play either on the right side of the line or at his usual LT position and is a force in the running game at the POA along with being an excellent Pass protector.

Another good point. When his feet get too slow for LT he can slide to the other side, or even inside if/when we get a QB who doesn't throw sidearm like Fitz. Not so with Ferguson.
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I'd generally agree, but with a veteran team of high priced players we are also in win-now mode (as well as planning for the future). I'd say it depends. Depends on if his play is still nearly as good as it was 3-5 years ago (I honestly don't know), because Brick is like a totally different player than he used to be, for the worse. Used to be an elite pass blocker and at least an adequate run blocker. No more. That's not enough in an era where even crappy offensive linemen are allowed to hold to protect the QB.

Questions are (1.) if Thomas is still just about as good as he used to be (a little drop-off is not concerning to me, considering how great he supposedly was); (2.) How much does he want (mostly in terms of how long are we locked into him; I'm fine with paying top dollar for an elite left tackle as long as he doesn't become a cap albatross we can't get out of until after he's become a liability (3.) duh - what would it take to pry him loose, assuming Cleveland is willing to move him in the first place.

Other than that, I'm ok with his age. I'm ok with Ferguson's age if he was still nearly what he once was. They're not RBs or CBs so each should still be in the league for another 4-5 seasons as long as they don't price themselves out of jobs. Even 3-4 years is plenty long-term enough to put off a hole at the position.

 

Another good point. When his feet get too slow for LT he can slide to the other side, or even inside if/when we get a QB who doesn't throw sidearm like Fitz. Not so with Ferguson.

From what I can gather, Thomas is still elite and his salary is actually very team friendly. Therefore, it might cost the Jets #20.

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I would take Joe Thomas over Dbrick in a NY minute. His current contract is high but not nearly 14 million. Plus you could redo his contract to have him retire a Jet after playing RT to end his career. It would be the 1st time the Jets could threaten to run left in years (2009?), that's gonna be 7 years ago. Jets could threaten every part of the field instead of being one sided.

Thomas/Carpenter/Mangold is beastly, add a young stud RT in the draft & a quick, pass catching RB, a sure handed 3rd WR, some LBs (sign Irvin as your one big FA signing), with fixed special teams? Let roll in 2016. Go Mac!

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If this spread offense is really gonna work, we should invest the top-dollar contracts in a QB and skill players instead of paying premium dollar for o-line.  There is a reason the Jets allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the league and it's not because the o-line is great.  It's because Fitz has good pocket mobility (his footwork isn't textbook like Brady's but he gets it done), and the system is designed to get the ball out quickly.

They need to either restructure Brick down to $7-8 million or cut him because he's not worth his $14.1 million cap number.  And we can't replace Brick's contract with another like his.  I don't mind paying $8-10 million for a good tackle but the Joe Thomas level of contract doesn't really make sense for this system.

This opinion seems to be gaining steam around here.  You guys are aware that running the ball is important too...right? Not EVERY throw is out in 2 seconds as well.   

That being said we shouldn't trade for this guy, our cap situation isn't great already and we need these draft picks to fill holes cheaply.  You trade for this guy if you're a no doubt win now team.  We are young and trending upward.  This would just make our peak that much lower. Taking advantage of the cost savings of drafting good young contributors should be our main focus, not trading for expensive veteran talent.

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This opinion seems to be gaining steam around here.  You guys are aware that running the ball is important too...right? Not EVERY throw is out in 2 seconds as well.   

That being said we shouldn't trade for this guy, our cap situation isn't great already and we need these draft picks to fill holes cheaply.  You trade for this guy if you're a no doubt win now team.  We are young and trending upward.  This would just make our peak that much lower. Taking advantage of the cost savings of drafting good young contributors should be our main focus, not trading for expensive veteran talent.

Where is all of this young talent you speak of? you always need a mix of vets & youngsters. The point of this game is to upgrade every position you can "if you can". If the Jets could trade Richardson or Mo, tell everyone both are available & we ended up with a 1st rounder (maybe higher than 20), traded a 1st for Joe Thomas who's better than Dbrick with a decent contract, and drafted a stud with our other 1st rounder we've already upgraded the team because Dbrick is now a trade pawn too. Personally, I think sticking with Dbrick is a huge mistake.

Believe me I understand all of this sh*t is hypothetical but if Mac pulled it off I'd be ecstatic.

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If this spread offense is really gonna work, we should invest the top-dollar contracts in a QB and skill players instead of paying premium dollar for o-line.  There is a reason the Jets allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the league and it's not because the o-line is great.  It's because Fitz has good pocket mobility (his footwork isn't textbook like Brady's but he gets it done), and the system is designed to get the ball out quickly.

They need to either restructure Brick down to $7-8 million or cut him because he's not worth his $14.1 million cap number.  And we can't replace Brick's contract with another like his.  I don't mind paying $8-10 million for a good tackle but the Joe Thomas level of contract doesn't really make sense for this system.

Agreed.  It would pretty stupid to trade for a tackle (especially one like Thomas) when the Jets gave up the 2nd fewest sacks and were a top 10 running team with 1 of 7 backs that eclipsed 1,000 yards.

The OL is fine.

 

Edited by JiF
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This opinion seems to be gaining steam around here.  You guys are aware that running the ball is important too...right? Not EVERY throw is out in 2 seconds as well.   

That being said we shouldn't trade for this guy, our cap situation isn't great already and we need these draft picks to fill holes cheaply.  You trade for this guy if you're a no doubt win now team.  We are young and trending upward.  This would just make our peak that much lower. Taking advantage of the cost savings of drafting good young contributors should be our main focus, not trading for expensive veteran talent.

Agreed, the ideal situation is Brent Qvale would replace Giacomini and we draft a LT to groom

behind Brick for a year.  That way you conserve your $$$ and allocate them somewhere else.

Both Maccagnan & Bowles had scouting backgrounds, I believe they know the value of developing

the back end of your roster which keeps your cap under control 

Edited by KRL
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Agreed.  It would pretty stupid to trade for a tackle (especially one like Thomas) when the Jets gave up the 2nd fewest sacks and were a top 10 running team with 1 of 7 backs that eclipsed 1,000 yards.

The OL is fine.

 

No, the OL is not fine as long as Breno and "guard of the day" are on the field.

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If this spread offense is really gonna work, we should invest the top-dollar contracts in a QB and skill players instead of paying premium dollar for o-line.  There is a reason the Jets allowed the 2nd fewest sacks in the league and it's not because the o-line is great.  It's because Fitz has good pocket mobility (his footwork isn't textbook like Brady's but he gets it done), and the system is designed to get the ball out quickly.

They need to either restructure Brick down to $7-8 million or cut him because he's not worth his $14.1 million cap number.  And we can't replace Brick's contract with another like his.  I don't mind paying $8-10 million for a good tackle but the Joe Thomas level of contract doesn't really make sense for this system.

Brick's Base is only 8.6, the rest is prorated.  There isn't that much to negotiate down.

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Please elaborate.  2nd fewest sacks, top 10 running game.  What's the problem? 

How many attempts? Top 2 YPC? Just curious. We were also tops on defense stopping the run but the Pats only attempted 6 runs against us. How many yards did the Bills have against us in the game at MetLife? (148 yds), Eagles (125 yds), Raiders (120). What teams did we play that actually had a great running game? Or a very good offense for that matter. 

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How many attempts? Top 2 YPC? Just curious. We were also tops on defense stopping the run but the Pats only attempted 6 runs against us. How many yards did the Bills have against us in the game at MetLife? (148 yds), Eagles (125 yds), Raiders (120). What teams did we play that actually had a great running game? Or a very good offense for that matter. 

We averaged 4.2 as a team and that average was brought down by the patheticness of Zach Stacy and Steven Ridely (2.9 and 2.3 respectively.  Powell was 4.5 and Ivory was 4.3.  And we played some very good run stopping teams, or at least they were playing the run well at the time the Jets faced them.

Not sure what the D has to do with the OL. 

 

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We averaged 4.2 as a team and that average was brought down by the patheticness of Zach Stacy and Steven Ridely (2.9 and 2.3 respectively.  Powell was 4.5 and Ivory was 4.3.  And we played some very good run stopping teams, or at least they were playing the run well at the time the Jets faced them.

Not sure what the D has to do with the OL. 

 

I'm just curious because our run game got worse as the season progressed I believe. Powell came back & excelled in the passing game more than taking handoffs. We put a lot on Fitzys plate & he came through with flying colors. Everyone knew the weather was not playing in our favor in Buffalo with 20-30 MPH winds & 20 degree temps. Taylor is a much better runner & has the stronger arm. Switch QBs & Bowles would have had Revis up in Watkins face with no fear of Fitz beating him deep. We really needed our running game to succeed to force Rex out of what he wanted to do with Marshall & Decker. Ivorys 58 yard run was really the only decent running play. The way Rex was dropping CBs & safeties Bilal would have abused the middle of the field, he was a terrible loss. We were all scared once we saw the weather report & Powell out. Quigleys always a concern but I was watching those punts in our own end into the wind through my fingers. 

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