Just a reminder of how far we've come

[nyjunc]

The accomplishment is mental only. No trophies for making the playoffs EXCEPT for winning the division.

This year the team has the talent to win. Next year they need to learn how to win and develop a killer instinct

mental is big this team would know they can get over the hump and make the playoffs, now they have doubts.  if they are in a win and in game next year the pressure will be enormous to avoid another choke.

next year the team is a year older and we have an old team to begin with.  as great as Marshall was(our best player and biggest reason we won 10 games) he's a year older and a year beatdown w/ another non playoff season.  he doesn't know if he will ever see a postseason.  winning last week gives them winning a big game experience and then the experience of playoff pressure.

[UnknownJetFan]

Well in response to the cycle aspect we see, the GM/HC need to never get into extreme short term moves mode i.e never do like Tanny did by trading up for a blue chip player or 2 in several drafts in a row just to create a small window to potentially win it all. That is what creates scenarios of 2 AFC title games in a row for teams like us and then no playoffs for 5+ years after that since your depth a long term growth are all depleted due to losing most of your draft picks and spending all your money on a small quantity of players. The most stable NFL teams never do that, they always stick to their long term growth plans and that is how they maintain continuity and stability. MAC needs to get more players and depth for STs and rotations in this next draft and maybe sign a couple FAs from outside the team as well as the higher priority ones of our own. For the love of God get better Punter, KO/PK, and gunners, etc. players. Everyone thinks those areas are of lesser importance due to the kickoff marking, but balanced teams like the Jets will continue to lose at least 2-3 extra games a year when field position doesn't go there way. I saw 3 or more games that we would have won had we not given up punt return TDs due to bad coverage because of the punting and gunners, as well as bad field position on KOs/PRs due to having no real threat of players at those positions. Heck, the players we used there Cro, Smith, Kerley, etc. are more of liabilities with either doing nothing, fumbling, fair catching at the 5 yard line, etc.  

[UnitedWhofans]

mental is big this team would know they can get over the hump and make the playoffs, now they have doubts.  if they are in a win and in game next year the pressure will be enormous to avoid another choke.

next year the team is a year older and we have an old team to begin with.  as great as Marshall was(our best player and biggest reason we won 10 games) he's a year older and a year beatdown w/ another non playoff season.  he doesn't know if he will ever see a postseason.  winning last week gives them winning a big game experience and then the experience of playoff pressure.

I would only be worried about Marshall of his speed was his main weapon. It is not. He will be fine and motivated. So will Fitzpatrick. Whether he succeeds needs to be seen.

You think we are old. But I see young players that have talent. Pryor, Williams (both), Mauldin. On the offense, Devin Smith needs to get healthy and we get Amaro back who led rookies in catches from TE. and he can be lined up outside as a WR. Despite his final game, Enunwa had a solid year. 

The areas where we need youth are OL, RB, and LB which are the three areas we need to draft, IMO. Also if you want to draft another QB, you can go right ahead.

Take it this way, the Jets went from embarrassing to disappointing. That is an improvement in my book. But the journey is just beginning

[Integrity28]

no one questions marshall's talent, it was the LR stuff.  he came here with a great attitude and formed a lethal combo w/ Decker which helped a journeyman QB have a career year. 

we didn't have any huge injuries w/ prolonged absences,   The depth was not great(it's hard t have great depth in the cap era) but we more than enough talent to be a playoff team.  depth or lack of depth did not cost us a playoff spot.  showing up unprepared and uninspired in Buffalo cost us a playoff game,

The part about Marshall and Decker in your response is irrelevant to the prior points you made, or my rebuttal. Decker and Marshall are arguable 2 of the top 5 most talented players on the team, and nobody questions their talent, but they alone don't make this a "talented team that should be in the playoffs".

The injuries we had impacted the team enough for them to go on a losing streak. So, one could and should extrapolate from that that we weren't talented, or deep enough, overall to sustain winning without a few average players. This flies in the face of the sentiment that this roster is so talented that it should be in the playoffs.

We lost 6 games, at least 3 of which were lost because of special teams, and several of which were lost because we didn't have enough talent to compensate for Bilal Powell's injuries, or Chris Ivory's, or when Decker and Marshall were both playing hurt, or losing Enunwa or Devin Smith. Our pass defense looked completely different with and without Calvin Pryor. These are the realities, or factual observations, of what this roster was capable of over the course of the season. 6 games cost us the playoffs, not just the Buffalo game.

Your generalized remark about being unprepared and uninspired is hyperbole. Not fact. You are terrible at following your own standards of debate.

[UnitedWhofans]

BTW, if you don't think one year affects another, look at the Carolina Panthers. Got hot at the end of last year and have the top seed this year.

The 97-98 Jets are another example

[nyjunc]

I would only be worried about Marshall of his speed was his main weapon. It is not. He will be fine and motivated. So will Fitzpatrick. Whether he succeeds needs to be seen.

You think we are old. But I see young players that have talent. Pryor, Williams (both), Mauldin. On the offense, Devin Smith needs to get healthy and we get Amaro back who led rookies in catches from TE. and he can be lined up outside as a WR. Despite his final game, Enunwa had a solid year. 

The areas where we need youth are OL, RB, and LB which are the three areas we need to draft, IMO. Also if you want to draft another QB, you can go right ahead.

Take it this way, the Jets went from embarrassing to disappointing. That is an improvement in my book. But the journey is just beginning

Marshall was beaten down after that loss.  he has been through so much and they had such a great opportunity, he is setting himself up well for a 2nd career after football.  I don't know.

we have some young talent but the vets drove this team.  I hope this is just the beginning.

The part about Marshall and Decker in your response is irrelevant to the prior points you made, or my rebuttal. Decker and Marshall are arguable 2 of the top 5 most talented players on the team, and nobody questions their talent, but they alone don't make this a "talented team that should be in the playoffs".

The injuries we had impacted the team enough for them to go on a losing streak. So, one could and should extrapolate from that that we weren't talented, or deep enough, overall to sustain winning without a few average players. This flies in the face of the sentiment that this roster is so talented that it should be in the playoffs.

We lost 6 games, at least 3 of which were lost because of special teams, and several of which were lost because we didn't have enough talent to compensate for Bilal Powell's injuries, or Chris Ivory's, or when Decker and Marshall were both playing hurt, or losing Enunwa or Devin Smith. Our pass defense looked completely different with and without Calvin Pryor. These are the realities, or factual observations, of what this roster was capable of over the course of the season. 6 games cost us the playoffs, not just the Buffalo game.

Your generalized remark about being unprepared and uninspired is hyperbole. Not fact. You are terrible at following your own standards of debate.

It's not irrelevant.

1. Mac had an easy job this offseason w/ all the cap room and having to spend most of it

2. even easy jobs can be screwed up(see Idzik) and mac did a great job.

3. we had one of the most talented teams in the league in a down year in the AFC

4. we had golden opportunity where everything broke right and we blew it.

just b/c a bad STs play happen doesn't mean we lost b/c of STs and only 2 losses were greatly affected by STs play.  vs. philly where Fitz was main culprit and vs. Buffalo where we had a million chances to overcome and failed.

we didn't miss the playoffs b/c of our poor STs, we missed b/c we blew a golden opportunity in week 17. 

does everything I say have to be a fact?  you harp on such meaningless little points then think you have accomplished something.  a blind man could see we were unprepared and uninspired.  Only 1 team was affected by the weather, we showed up flat.  that's indisputable but carry on w/ your excuses please.

[nyjunc]

BTW, if you don't think one year affects another, look at the Carolina Panthers. Got hot at the end of last year and have the top seed this year.

The 97-98 Jets are another example

Carolina made the playoffs last year, made the divisional round.

 

the 1997 Jets had won 10 games TOTAL the previous 3 years and had not had a winning season since 1988.  we were .500 2 years ago, we were in the title game 5 years ago.  as disappointing as 1997 was we knew it was a start b/c we had a proven, HOF coach and a younger team.  there are no guarantees this season leads to anything more.

[Beerfish]

from this

 

to this

 

 

how exciting

This one simple post encapsulates your whole posting career perfectly. 

[nyjunc]

This one simple post encapsulates your whole posting career perfectly. 

Thank you.

[Integrity28]

Marshall was beaten down after that loss.  he has been through so much and they had such a great opportunity, he is setting himself up well for a 2nd career after football.  I don't know.

we have some young talent but the vets drove this team.  I hope this is just the beginning.

It's not irrelevant.

1. Mac had an easy job this offseason w/ all the cap room and having to spend most of it

2. even easy jobs can be screwed up(see Idzik) and mac did a great job.

3. we had one of the most talented teams in the league in a down year in the AFC

4. we had golden opportunity where everything broke right and we blew it.

just b/c a bad STs play happen doesn't mean we lost b/c of STs and only 2 losses were greatly affected by STs play.  vs. philly where Fitz was main culprit and vs. Buffalo where we had a million chances to overcome and failed.

we didn't miss the playoffs b/c of our poor STs, we missed b/c we blew a golden opportunity in week 17. 

does everything I say have to be a fact?  you harp on such meaningless little points then think you have accomplished something.  a blind man could see we were unprepared and uninspired.  Only 1 team was affected by the weather, we showed up flat.  that's indisputable but carry on w/ your excuses please.

No, for you to isolate Marshall and Decker, rather than addressing the larger premise that the "roster was talented enough to make the playoffs" is deflection, and irrelevant. 

1. Tangental and irrelevant - no surprise - nobody ever argued anything about how easy Mac's job was.

2. Completely irrelevant.

3. The weak AFC has literally nothing to do with the talent level of the roster. Irrelevant, again. Our win/loss record is a reflection of playing against weaker conference opponents, thereby suggesting that if the AFC teams were better, then our record would have been worse. This suggests we're not as talented as our record might suggest, which reinforces my point. Thank you.

4. What does this have to do with anything? You said the talent on the roster should have put us in the playoffs, so by saying that everything broke right for us, it suggests that we were only in position to make the playoffs because things broke right, not because of talent. This is a contradiction to your original premise, again reinforcing my point. Thank you.

When ST's puts points on the board for the opponent, and we lose by the same margin, then yea, we absolutely lost because of poor special teams play. Cause and effect. The litany of other points your scrambling to stuff into your response here have nothing to do with the original premise.

You are completely incapable of defending your original premise, routinely. If you want to spin yourself out and make more of a hot mess of the site, go for it. You've not provided one single reinforcing statement to your original premise. I'm done here.

You can put this one down as a W for me on your scoreboard, goofball.

[UnitedWhofans]

And I disagree with you nyjunc about ST. Overall in most of our losses, Special Teams played a big part. Especially in Buffalo

[nyjunc]

No, for you to isolate Marshall and Decker, rather than addressing the larger premise that the "roster was talented enough to make the playoffs" is deflection, and irrelevant. 

1. Tangental and irrelevant - no surprise - nobody ever argued anything about how easy Mac's job was.

2. Completely irrelevant.

3. The weak AFC has literally nothing to do with the talent level of the roster. Irrelevant, again. Our win/loss record is a reflection of playing against weaker conference opponents, thereby suggesting that if the AFC teams were better, then our record would have been worse. This suggests we're not as talented as our record might suggest, which reinforces my point. Thank you.

4. What does this have to do with anything? You said the talent on the roster should have put us in the playoffs, so by saying that everything broke right for us, it suggests that we were only in position to make the playoffs because things broke right, not because of talent. This is a contradiction to your original premise, again reinforcing my point. Thank you.

When ST's puts points on the board for the opponent, and we lose by the same margin, then yea, we absolutely lost because of poor special teams play. Cause and effect. The litany of other points your scrambling to stuff into your response here have nothing to do with the original premise.

You are completely incapable of defending your original premise, routinely. If you want to spin yourself out and make more of a hot mess of the site, go for it. You've not provided one single reinforcing statement to your original premise. I'm done here.

You can put this one down as a W for me on your scoreboard, goofball.

talent was part of breaking right, healthy talent.  remember week 1 when mauldin's carrer looked over and Cro looked done for the season yet Cro was back week 2 and mauldin soon after?  we were healthy this year, talent and health is an example of things breaking right.  Not to mention the Bills and dolphins being mediocre/bad, the weak sched, Pitt losing in week 16, Fitz having a career year, etc...

Keep trying though, someday you may be able to get something over on me.  Unfortunately you will have to do it w/o making things up.

 

You are don here? done doing what? making things up?

[UnitedWhofans]

talent was part of breaking right, healthy talent.  remember week 1 when mauldin's carrer looked over and Cro looked done for the season yet Cro was back week 2 and mauldin soon after?  we were healthy this year, talent and health is an example of things breaking right.  Not to mention the Bills and dolphins being mediocre/bad, the weak sched, Pitt losing in week 16, Fitz having a career year, etc...

Keep trying though, someday you may be able to get something over on me.  Unfortunately you will have to do it w/o making things up.

I disagree about us being totally healthy. Secondary depth was a mess, and we lost Smith, Amaro and Powell ( in key games)

[nyjunc]

And I disagree with you nyjunc about ST. Overall in most of our losses, Special Teams played a big part. Especially in Buffalo

we had a bad punt in Buffalo and missed FG, it happens. Buf missed a PAT, we couldn't take advantage.  STs didn't make the O play scared into the wind, STs didn't allow Buf to hold the ball for 40 mins, STs didn't force Fitz to make that horrible throw.  STs were not good and part of the reason we lost but the D, coaching and Fitz were more responsible.

 

In other games STs screwed up but we had chances to overcome and failed.  how many throws did Fitz miss against Philly? how about the dumb lateral attempt by marshall?  how many times did we turn it over on downs at home vs. Buffalo?

[UnitedWhofans]

Carolina made the playoffs last year, made the divisional round.

 

the 1997 Jets had won 10 games TOTAL the previous 3 years and had not had a winning season since 1988.  we were .500 2 years ago, we were in the title game 5 years ago.  as disappointing as 1997 was we knew it was a start b/c we had a proven, HOF coach and a younger team.  there are no guarantees this season leads to anything more.

Yes they did, with a record of 7-8-1.Their fans could have easily said "We got lucky the division sucked. We are still a bad team". But they didn't.

[nyjunc]

I disagree about us being totally healthy. Secondary depth was a mess, and we lost Smith, Amaro and Powell ( in key games)

No team will ever be 100% healthy but we were as healthy as any team could wish to be.  No big season ending injuries, we lost guys for a week here and there like all teams do.  Now if Mo's injury happens week 1 then that's different.

[nyjunc]

Yes they did, with a record of 7-8-1.Their fans could have easily said "We got lucky the division sucked. We are still a bad team". But they didn't.

who cares? they did what they had to do to get to the playoffs.  I'd rather get in w/ 7 wins than miss w/ 10.  they were lucky the division sucked but they finished strong and in a win and in/lose and out game in week 17 last year they won 34-3 on the road.

[shevys]

The only acceptable outcome for some of these mental gymnasts is going from 4-12 to a superbowl victory. Progress is a myth apparently. 

Except when progress has been going on for nearly 50 years. I'm sick of progress. I want to see them win a ******* Super Bowl already. 

[UnitedWhofans]

we had a bad punt in Buffalo and missed FG, it happens. Buf missed a PAT, we couldn't take advantage.  STs didn't make the O play scared into the wind, STs didn't allow Buf to hold the ball for 40 mins, STs didn't force Fitz to make that horrible throw.  STs were not good and part of the reason we lost but the D, coaching and Fitz were more responsible.

 

In other games STs screwed up but we had chances to overcome and failed.  how many throws did Fitz miss against Philly? how about the dumb lateral attempt by marshall?  how many times did we turn it over on downs at home vs. Buffalo?

But they are not good enough to consistently overcome those mistakes. Hell, even the almighty Patriots couldn't overcome ST mistakes against Philly. 

We are good enough to be able to overcome some ST mistakes but not good enough to consistently do it.  ST is a third of the game. And it is very hard to win a game with 66 percent of your team.

[nyjunc]

But they are not good enough to consistently overcome those mistakes. Hell, even the almighty Patriots couldn't overcome ST mistakes against Philly. 

We are good enough to be able to overcome some ST mistakes but not good enough to consistently do it.  ST is a third of the game. And it is very hard to win a game with 66 percent of your team.

NE allowed 14 pts on STs, that's a big difference from 7. 

we were good enough to overcome in those games, we had plenty of chances against Philyl and in both Buf games. we didn't take advantage and we didn't deserve a playoff spot b/c of it. 

[Integrity28]

talent was part of breaking right, healthy talent.  remember week 1 when mauldin's carrer looked over and Cro looked done for the season yet Cro was back week 2 and mauldin soon after?  we were healthy this year, talent and health is an example of things breaking right.  Not to mention the Bills and dolphins being mediocre/bad, the weak sched, Pitt losing in week 16, Fitz having a career year, etc...

Keep trying though, someday you may be able to get something over on me.  Unfortunately you will have to do it w/o making things up.

It's already over chump.

The premise, your premise, wasn't about injuries. It was about this team being so talented that they should have made the playoffs. You've already offered several conditions that contradicted that. The injury examples I proved illustrated that when guys left the lineup we didn't have the "talent" to replace them and play at the same level.

You also suggested that ST played poorly because we didn't have depth, or talent, to support it. Which also contracts your premise.

Damn near everything you've tried to argue contradicts your initial premise, and now you're digging for a tangental win about injuries... but you're wrong on that too.

Mauldin missing a couple games when he was a rookie getting minimal snaps and Cro not being injured at all. These aren't injury examples. Marshall and Decker played hurt for long stretches early in the season. We lost Devin, Enunwa, Colon, Amaro, Stacy, Milliner for the season. We didn't have the depth to replace Pryor or Powell for missed games without the team struggling drastically in each players area of the game.

You are outright terrible at this. 

 

[UnitedWhofans]

who cares? they did what they had to do to get to the playoffs.  I'd rather get in w/ 7 wins than miss w/ 10.  they were lucky the division sucked but they finished strong and in a win and in/lose and out game in week 17 last year they won 34-3 on the road.

So did we. We went 5-1. You could blame any loss for why we didn't make it. All losses are created equal. 

You believe that if we got in and got routed by the Bengals, people like you wouldn't complain? I call bullsh*t

[UnitedWhofans]

NE allowed 14 pts on STs, that's a big difference from 7. 

we were good enough to overcome in those games, we had plenty of chances against Philyl and in both Buf games. we didn't take advantage and we didn't deserve a playoff spot b/c of it. 

No we were not good enough to overcome against Philly and Buffalo? Why? Because we didn't do it. 

[Smashmouth]

Meh, every single time there is a regime change, this is how fans feel.  Especially if they have a decent start.   I can remember the biggest Rex/Tanny haters felating them on this very board for FINALLY having a competent FO and a great HC.  Those same people, 2 years later, were the loudest voices in the room to get those guys out of town.

I'm taking a wait and see approach this time around.  I like what I see but neither Mac or Bowles did anything that I would consider special this last season.  

 

I cant speak for Bowles just yet but Macc made all the right moves and filled holes 2 previous GM's felt could be filled with other teams cast offs particularly at the WR position. In the past 7 years it would not have mattered much what QB we brought in here they would have failed . Now that we finally have some REAL talent at the WR position and a QB who understands the importance of stepping up in the pocket and getting rid of the ball quick with some great pre snap reads our offense has gone from bottom 5 to top ten in one short year. Obviously we still need a decent number 3 WR and a TE and a RB who can be a duel threat but we took a big step in the right direction and Macc gets full credit for that. Now that he's had a full season to evaluate the team from the inside and not the outside looking in I expect more of the same as he fills holes. This team is getting old in areas and we need to win now before we start rebuilding the cool thing is we may still be able to win while in a semi rebuild mode and that's going to be fun for the fans.

[nyjunc]

So did we. We went 5-1. You could blame any loss for why we didn't make it. All losses are created equal. 

You believe that if we got in and got routed by the Bengals, people like you wouldn't complain? I call bullsh*t

no we didn't, we blew it week 17 on the road against a dead team, they crushed their opponent week 17 where it was win and in for both teams.

[UnitedWhofans]

To wrap up, some might say "if we weren't good enough to overcome against Buffalo and  Philly, how can we overcome next year". Because of a little thing people seem to be forgetting.

The Jets can get better too.

[nyjunc]

No we were not good enough to overcome against Philly and Buffalo? Why? Because we didn't do it. 

we had our chances though, last year we lost those games by 20+ and don't have a chance.

[nyjunc]

It's already over chump.

The premise, your premise, wasn't about injuries. It was about this team being so talented that they should have made the playoffs. You've already offered several conditions that contradicted that. The injury examples I proved illustrated that when guys left the lineup we didn't have the "talent" to replace them and play at the same level.

You also suggested that ST played poorly because we didn't have depth, or talent, to support it. Which also contracts your premise.

Damn near everything you've tried to argue contradicts your initial premise, and now you're digging for a tangental win about injuries... but you're wrong on that too.

Mauldin missing a couple games when he was a rookie getting minimal snaps and Cro not being injured at all. These aren't injury examples. Marshall and Decker played hurt for long stretches early in the season. We lost Devin, Enunwa, Colon, Amaro, Stacy, Milliner for the season. We didn't have the depth to replace Pryor or Powell for missed games without the team struggling drastically in each players area of the game.

You are outright terrible at this. 

you bore me, keep making things up. 

[UnitedWhofans]

we had our chances though, last year we lost those games by 20+ and don't have a chance.

Right. But they weren't good enough to capitalize on them

[nyjunc]

Right. But they weren't good enough to capitalize on them

I guess not but we had chances.  the games were not lost b/c of the STs mistakes alone.

[drdetroit]

I watched the Jets go 1-15 so 10-6 and missing the playoffs and a possible Super Bowl run ain't bad.

[UnitedWhofans]

Were people saying when the team wa 5-5 that they were good enough? I don't think so. They weren't saying the same about Carolina, but they had a lower mountain to climb

[prime21]

who cares? they did what they had to do to get to the playoffs.  I'd rather get in w/ 7 wins than miss w/ 10.  they were lucky the division sucked but they finished strong and in a win and in/lose and out game in week 17 last year they won 34-3 on the road.

I only wish we had more losses on draft night, Other than that I would much rather have 10 and miss it.  Sometimes winning 10 can be a result of a great schedule but I would rather win 10 games and miss it two years in a row because  you are probably are doing something right and may just need a few pieces or health to get to the next level.

[UnitedWhofans]

I guess not but we had chances.  the games were not lost b/c of the STs mistakes alone.

maybe but because of the way the rules go against special teams plays, they stand out more. 

[nyjunc]

I watched the Jets go 1-15 so 10-6 and missing the playoffs and a possible Super Bowl run ain't bad.

if we just went 1-15 I'd agree with you but that was 20 years ago.