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JustInFudge

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If you spin what I said, to this re-interpretation, sure it is.

You left out the part where I said "if there are 4 scum, like CTM says" then lynching me now is LYLO. That's fact. If there are 4 scum and you guys lynch me, you mislynch. So, yea, not lynching me now is the first step towards winning, because: basics.

Again, you're doing nothing but spinning sh*t all over the place. 

And no, you haven't been consistent at all... you first broken in saying I'm a liar. Then said you'd need to think about it the math of how I interpreted my info. Then when you're position gained traction you gradually worked your way to the "balanced roles" theme of your case against me. If I gave a sh*t, I'd probably go back and pull quotes showing how it evolved as you gained traction from others (namely Smash and LK). 

So no, you haven't been consistent. Will it matter? Probably not.

I haven't spun anything. You can't explain how 3 scum would be balanced against a 3rd parrty, cop, doc and sensor

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I haven't spun anything. You can't explain how 3 scum would be balanced against a 3rd parrty, cop, doc and sensor

Yeah, right.

I've answered this several times, dude... it's quite clear, there is no right answer. Every time I give you one, you blow it off, troll me about dumb fringe level crap, or introduce semantics that don't matter, and then eventually come back and ask again. 

You don't want to acknowledge the answer, but here it is one more time.

Giving the scum team the following, should offset those roles:

  • godfather (cop proof)
  • a vest or vests (kill proof)
  • role blocker (cop, vig, doc proof)
  • symp (cop, and sensor proof, based on my understand that they'd appear as part of town)
  • I also considered other roles, like a role finder, or scum having the ability to convert their symp

Now, we're assuming there's no role blocker because there was no NK, on the premise that the best play is to RB and NK the same person, and doc hunt. I get that, but to build your entire case around "there's no role blocker, so the scum team isn't balanced against the town" is a noob stretch. We've seen roles design where scum has 1-time items, like a 1-time RB, maybe it was used already. I don't know. I'm trying not to base my theories on the unknowns here... while this push against me, is ENTIRELY centered around speculation of unknowns.

Is this not clear, what I'm saying here? Because I've said the same thing probably a dozen times in different ways... let me know if I need to write in out in binary, so that your pragmatic, logic-driven robot mind can better understand it... 

This is the least pragmatic I've ever seen you be. Even if you're scum, you don't go this far off the reservation... you're in Lizzie land right now, everything I say get spun through the "there's just no way that Ape can trick me, he's got to be evil" filter. 

If anyone, other than CTM has questions, just tag me in the post or quote me and I'll get around to it later. For now, I need a break. Two games of high volume screaming at the wall as town just will NOT let themselves trust me. I'm burnt out a bit already, frankly.

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  • godfather (cop proof)
  • a vest or vests (kill proof)
  • role blocker (cop, vig, doc proof)
  • symp (cop, and sensor proof, based on my understand that they'd appear as part of town)
  • I also considered other roles, like a role finder, or scum having the ability to convert their symp

 

and again, you ignore

1)  that you said your power finds non town players, not just scum. A symp wins with scum and counts as non town for voting purposes. This is BS

2) I'm not sure how you are thinking roleblocker with no death last night. Makes little sense

3) Scum could quite possible convert a symp, but again it'd show as non town on any potential sensor readings

 

Most importantly, and this comes direct from the wifi on this freaken game. A SENSOR IS ENORMOUSLY OVERPOWERED. You know this, I know this and we both know that there is almost no chance a mod leaves a scum team of only 3 to face off against a town with numerous power roles including THE MOST POWERFUL town role

good god, stop playing so freaken dumb

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sensor

 

Sensor

 
 
Sensor
Alias: none
Alignment:
Role type:
  • Informative
Choice:
  • Night

The Sensor is a role that can detect how many scum-aligned players were on the lynch bandwagon on the previous day.

There is no reason for this role to be anything but Town-aligned. It is, however, very often X-Shot.

Use and Power

Using Sensor on the Day 1 lynch can neatly split the player list in two. If the scum are not evenly split between being on the wagon and not being on the wagon, it can become very easy to pin down who the scum are much less likely to be. Thus, Sensor is considered painfully overpowered.

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and again, you ignore

1)  that you said your power finds non town players, not just scum. A symp wins with scum and counts as non town for voting purposes. This is BS

2) I'm not sure how you are thinking roleblocker with no death last night. Makes little sense

3) Scum could quite possible convert a symp, but again it'd show as non town on any potential sensor readings

 

Most importantly, and this comes direct from the wifi on this freaken game. A SENSOR IS ENORMOUSLY OVERPOWERED. You know this, I know this and we both know that there is almost no chance a mod leaves a scum team of only 3 to face off against a town with numerous power roles including THE MOST POWERFUL town role

good god, stop playing so freaken dumb

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sensor

"It is very often x-shot" ...ape never mentioned a handcuff on the amount of use either. Total bullsh*t. I'm willing to wager that even JiF or myself wouldn't abuse the balance THAT bad. Someone kill the pig. 

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forget ctm role in the balance and just chew on how in theory, with cop alive,  ape could have revealed like he did , got doc protection and the cop could have investigated one of the three questionable players that ape pointed out. We would be cruising to victory tomorrow if verbal was alive. 

This is absurd

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Eh, Symp varies. JIF didn't give me details on how it would work if there is one, and he shouldn't. Your questions was about how I reached the conclusion that 3 scum would be balanced at the time I reached that conclusion, and I answered with all the things that at that time I considered.

Now you're attacking all of my considerations. It's ridiculous. So, you arrived at me being scum by speculation, and basically need to tear down every single aspect of what informed my play, rather than just accepting that as a townie, I made assumptions based on unknowns. It's really not a hard thing to arrive at what I did. You actually have to go out of your way to craft it all into an indictment though.

You're in the position of hindsight benefitting how you want to attack me here, I played into it by trying to answer honestly... It allows you to basically take everything I say and aligned it to your narrative. I do this to people REGULARLY as scum. I know the technique, it's no coincidence that you're finding a way to dismiss or incriminate every single thing I'm saying. 

If you were town at all, you'd at least weigh different sides of what I'm saying. In order for someone to swallow your cock the way these guys have, they'd also have to believe that I'm completely incompetent at playing scum for every single aspect of my play to suddenly map to a scum agenda. I'm not.

 

 

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Eh, Symp varies. JIF didn't give me details on how it would work if there is one, and he shouldn't. Your questions was about how I reached the conclusion that 3 scum would be balanced at the time I reached that conclusion, and I answered with all the things that at that time I considered.

Now you're attacking all of my considerations. It's ridiculous. So, you arrived at me being scum by speculation, and basically need to tear down every single aspect of what informed my play, rather than just accepting that as a townie, I made assumptions based on unknowns. It's really not a hard thing to arrive at what I did. You actually have to go out of your way to craft it all into an indictment though.

You're in the position of hindsight benefitting how you want to attack me here, I played into it by trying to answer honestly... It allows you to basically take everything I say and aligned it to your narrative. I do this to people REGULARLY as scum. I know the technique, it's no coincidence that you're finding a way to dismiss or incriminate every single thing I'm saying. 

If you were town at all, you'd at least weigh different sides of what I'm saying. In order for someone to swallow your cock the way these guys have, they'd also have to believe that I'm completely incompetent at playing scum for every single aspect of my play to suddenly map to a scum agenda. I'm not.

 

 

you're totally inept. This is the worst bluff ever made or Jif hates the scum. Either way your claim is awful 

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forget ctm role in the balance and just chew on how in theory, with cop alive,  ape could have revealed like he did , got doc protection and the cop could have investigated one of the three questionable players that ape pointed out. We would be cruising to victory tomorrow if verbal was alive. 

This is absurd

You know what, if there were some dead scum, then I'd agree with making assumptions like this based on the roles scum got... the reality is, we don't know how they are roled. There are mafia roles like framer, and sh*t that allow them to mess with cop investigations. The cop/sensor thing is obviously balanced off, I just don't know how. How could I know how? To make a decision like this based on dismissing it is just bad mafia play, regardless of me being aggravated by it, it's just bad play.

I really don't understand why this is being treated like "oh, every game we play uses the same 3 roles, so none of the stuff Ape took into account when he suggested only 3 scum is feasible".

 

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Given what I've heard and read about Capture the Fag I guess anything is technically possible but with a fresh set of eyes today this is not something I could ever consign as town I just can't justify going with ape in any way shape or form on this. I can live with being ridiculed for a couple days for my stance on this. Just insane when you think about it. 

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You're in the position of hindsight benefitting how you want to attack me here, I played into it by trying to answer honestly... It allows you to basically take everything I say and aligned it to your narrative. I do this to people REGULARLY as scum. I know the technique, it's no coincidence that you're finding a way to dismiss or incriminate every single thing I'm saying. 

 

 

Yes it is no coincidence I can discredit what you are saying, cause you are full of sh*t and it makes no sense.

that is the simplest explanation..

You revealing with a claim of 3 scum with the information you had at that time, makes no damn sense

61004211.jpg

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you're totally inept. This is the worst bluff ever made or Jif hates the scum. Either way your claim is awful 

What's funny is that all CTM had to do was whisper my name in your ear, and you went full moron... ignoring logic, and right back to being the same old Ape-centric hot mess. You're the rube here. CTM's playing great, you're the punchline.

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You know what, if there were some dead scum, then I'd agree with making assumptions like this based on the roles scum got... the reality is, we don't know how they are roled. There are mafia roles like framer, and sh*t that allow them to mess with cop investigations. The cop/sensor thing is obviously balanced off, I just don't know how. How could I know how? To make a decision like this based on dismissing it is just bad mafia play, regardless of me being aggravated by it, it's just bad play.

I really don't understand why this is being treated like "oh, every game we play uses the same 3 roles, so none of the stuff Ape took into account when he suggested only 3 scum is feasible".

 

because you claimed the most powerful town role possible and it didn't even have a cap on usage. And then cop and doc? Cmon man

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Yes it is no coincidence I can discredit what you are saying, cause you are full of sh*t and it makes no sense.

that is the simplest explanation..

You revealing with a claim of 3 scum with the information you had at that time, makes no damn sense

61004211.jpg

Yeah, right.

If I had actually faked this and said 4 scum, you'd be arguing the other side. 100% guarantee.

 

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What's funny is that all CTM had to do was whisper my name in your ear, and you went full moron... ignoring logic, and right back to being the same old Ape-centric hot mess. You're the rube here. CTM's playing great, you're the punchline.

I'm playing great? If you are town I've almost single handily cost the town the game. I'm playing great if you are scum, that is true

 

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because you claimed the most powerful town role possible and it didn't even have a cap on usage. And then cop and doc? Cmon man

Eh, you don't know what you're talking about. Even if there was a cap on my usage, I shouldn't have revealed that. Let's say, and this is not me "shifting my reveal", that it did have a limit and I used it up. Now I'm vanilla. Isn't it more important to have scum thinking I'm a threat to them? It creates a wifom between me and the doc, because they think at that point the doc may protect me because I"m valuable. This basically helps me and the doc avoid NK. Scum would have to shoot into the rest of the pool, which then reduces the pool for scum hunting.

Now, shut up.

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I'm playing great? If you are town I've almost single handily cost the town the game. I'm playing great if you are scum, that is true

 

No, I'm convinced you are scum, that much should be obvious by now. You're going to get the idiots to lynch an uncountered investigative role. I did this in a recent game, got them to lynch the cop or something, no?

Anyway, Lizzie just showed up... so you can kick back your heels and let him take over. He wants me dead every game, and pretty much loses site of any logic more quickly than a fart dissipates into the breeze... 

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What's funny is that all CTM had to do was whisper my name in your ear, and you went full moron... ignoring logic, and right back to being the same old Ape-centric hot mess. You're the rube here. CTM's playing great, you're the punchline.

no my furry assed friend, you're the punchline. Jif is either a sadist and gave you the most impossible to believe role of all time, or you made the absolutely worst bluff in history and think we will buy it. For the risk reward on mislynch to killing scum here the odds could not be more in towns favor. Lock? No but heavily weighted yes. 

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Yeah, right.

If I had actually faked this and said 4 scum, you'd be arguing the other side. 100% guarantee.

 

you're wrong

You seem to think I'm doing this for any other reason that I think you are full of sh*t

here's what could be driving this 3 sum thing, and all of it points to you being guilty

1) There legitimately is 3 scum and a symp (which you introduced btw), which WOULD BE BALANCED IF THERE WAS NO SENSOR. So you saying 3 scum is a way of basinig parts of your reveal in truth

2) There actually is 4 scum, you know it, and you originally said 3 yesterday to try and get town to play less carefully due to lylo concerns. Then you had to stick to it today

3) There is 4 scum, but you want town to think 3 so we an safely lynch AVM or Spoot, knowing that the game we will be able to safely lynch the other if we guess wrong today

 

In short, it is pro scum for town to be operating under the idea that there is 3 scum if there is really 4. I see no advantage to town, and this is why i think you pushed 3 and got hand caught in cookie jar

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Eh, you don't know what you're talking about. Even if there was a cap on my usage, I shouldn't have revealed that. Let's say, and this is not me "shifting my reveal", that it did have a limit and I used it up. Now I'm vanilla. Isn't it more important to have scum thinking I'm a threat to them? It creates a wifom between me and the doc, because they think at that point the doc may protect me because I"m valuable. This basically helps me and the doc avoid NK. Scum would have to shoot into the rest of the pool, which then reduces the pool for scum hunting.

Now, shut up.

lol.. i knew you'd be asking for doc protection. lmao.. called that too

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No, I'm convinced you are scum, that much should be obvious by now. You're going to get the idiots to lynch an uncountered investigative role. I did this in a recent game, got them to lynch the cop or something, no?

Anyway, Lizzie just showed up... so you can kick back your heels and let him take over. He wants me dead every game, and pretty much loses site of any logic more quickly than a fart dissipates into the breeze... 

why aren't you voting me if you are convinced i am scum?

even your faulty math suggests avm or spoot has to be scum, 50/50 bet, but you are convinced I am scum.. whih typically means 100

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no my furry assed friend, you're the punchline. Jif is either a sadist and gave you the most impossible to believe role of all time, or you made the absolutely worst bluff in history and think we will buy it. For the risk reward on mislynch to killing scum here the odds could not be more in towns favor. Lock? No but heavily weighted yes. 

You understand the basics of the game. Don't start pretending that you've got your head wrapped around this. You're doing what CTM wants you to, all he had to do was tickle the "Ape paranoia" bone that everyone knows you have. Now, you'll do his bidding.

Do us all a favor though, don't try and sound like you have a handle on this. You're a puppet. 

Dumb as **** to reveal as doc too.

 

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lol.. i knew you'd be asking for doc protection. lmao.. called that too

how was that me "asking for doc protection", again... spin... I was talking out a scenario for that other dope

why aren't you voting me if you are convinced i am scum?

even your faulty math suggests avm or spoot has to be scum, 50/50 bet, but you are convinced I am scum.. whih typically means 100

I don't know where my vote is, I've been pretty much stuck between trying to right all the wrongs you're pumping into the thread... and dealing with the shaming my wife is giving me for being on the computer all sunday

this isn't emo: i won't be playing again for a while, i have made far too much of a priority out of this, need to get sh*t cooled down with her - it's rare that she gets upset with me about anything, this is an embarrassing thing to have be a reason

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ape's assertions supporting 3 scum theory

scum has a role blocker that they didn't use on their NK even with a dead cop for what reason I do not know

scum has a symp who is sensor proof even though he said his role catches non town, not just scum, and oh btw, if they do have a symp and we mislynch today it's game over anyway regardless of whether it's a symp or real scum

..3 scum theory conveniently forces it to be AVM or Spoot at a minimum, if not both, which also fits nicely into pushing the idea that we can mislynch today and it not be game over cause there's only 3 scum. 4 scum theory basically means it can be any number of combintion of people, yet another reason to push 3 scum, it focuses us on avm or spoot

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how was that me "asking for doc protection", again... spin... I was talking out a scenario for that other dope

I don't know where my vote is, I've been pretty much stuck between trying to right all the wrongs you're pumping into the thread... and dealing with the shaming my wife is giving me for being on the computer all sunday

this isn't emo: i won't be playing again for a while, i have made far too much of a priority out of this, need to get sh*t cooled down with her - it's rare that she gets upset with me about anything, this is an embarrassing thing to have be a reason

you keep sayign you are going to leave the computer, you should leave. I won't be posting 1/5 as much if not for responding to you

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You understand the basics of the game. Don't start pretending that you've got your head wrapped around this. You're doing what CTM wants you to, all he had to do was tickle the "Ape paranoia" bone that everyone knows you have. Now, you'll do his bidding.

Do us all a favor though, don't try and sound like you have a handle on this. You're a puppet. 

Dumb as **** to reveal as doc too.

 

this is actually a really bad bet. The payout on this would be worse than American Pharaoh so I probably would never take this bet.  

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ape's assertions supporting 3 scum theory

scum has a role blocker that they didn't use on their NK even with a dead cop for what reason I do not know

scum has a symp who is sensor proof even though he said his role catches non town, not just scum, and oh btw, if they do have a symp and we mislynch today it's game over anyway regardless of whether it's a symp or real scum

..3 scum theory conveniently forces it to be AVM or Spoot at a minimum, if not both, which also fits nicely into pushing the idea that we can mislynch today and it not be game over cause there's only 3 scum. 4 scum theory basically means it can be any number of combintion of people, yet another reason to push 3 scum, it focuses us on avm or spoot

**** me. i said i considered the role blocker as a power BEFORE we saw the no NK, of course the chances of it diminish with that, but cannot be removed... when I design games, I tailor roles to the characters. so, that factors into how I look at setup. I don't dismiss much. I know what my role is, and what verb's role was, and that there's got to be something off-setting them, but ALSO something that off-sets a scenario where Brett stays 3rd party... that brought me to 3. personally, i would have made fisk super-powered GF, so that's sort of how I've been thinking about the whole game.

look up the symp/traitor role... some version are part of the town, would show up as town... again, this was "CONSIDERATION" at the time I formed my theory.

You keep taking my answers to your question which is what I was thinking when I came up with the theory of 3, and twisting it to be what I'm pushing now.

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you keep sayign you are going to leave the computer, you should leave. I won't be posting 1/5 as much if not for responding to you

yea, you got under my skin (I was already edgy from this past week at work, tbh), my wife knows i'm agitated and wants to knock it off... honestly, you better be ******* scum... if we're doing this to each other as townies, then ****... 

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yea, you got under my skin (I was already edgy from this past week at work, tbh), my wife knows i'm agitated and wants to knock it off... honestly, you better be ******* scum... if we're doing this to each other as townies, then ****... 

I'm 100% town and I can assure you that if some how you are actually town I'll feel like an idiot. But i don't think you are

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You understand the basics of the game. Don't start pretending that you've got your head wrapped around this. You're doing what CTM wants you to, all he had to do was tickle the "Ape paranoia" bone that everyone knows you have. Now, you'll do his bidding.

Do us all a favor though, don't try and sound like you have a handle on this. You're a puppet. 

Dumb as **** to reveal as doc too.

 

No him revealing as Doc narrowed the field for a team that has not hit scum yet. Hes got no Power role to protect and he was going to self protect any how until end game. Narrowing the field was essential and if you really are the SENSOR (which you are not) it was essential to your cause of finding scum. How in the **** do you not see that ?

 

FTR I told the Doc to reveal and if you were truly town sensor it would have been the only logical choice for you as well yet you continued to push against it. Certainly trying to look towny

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Well, I see no developments were made in my absence. Lovely.

I still feel fine about my vote.

Its becoming obvious that APE is coaching you in the scum thread. He's telling you if you hop on his train now it would be a huge scum tell trying to distance yourself from him and that we would pick up on it.

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I feel like it was a good fake reveal but in a game this small it's too powerful to have a cop, doc and this. Also, I can easily see JiF providing scum with some type of made up role where they could look for Brett/Daredevil.  So the semantics around Sensor being a predominant "Town" role means little to me. Just like I've never heard of a Vig Whisperer, some type of Scum (Daredevil) Sensor makes sense...even if the entire thing was made up from scratch by Ape.  

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I feel like it was a good fake reveal but in a game this small it's too powerful to have a cop, doc and this. Also, I can easily see JiF providing scum with some type of made up role where they could look for Brett/Daredevil.  So the semantics around Sensor being a predominant "Town" role means little to me. Just like I've never heard of a Vig Whisperer, some type of Scum (Daredevil) Sensor makes sense...even if the entire thing was made up from scratch by Ape.  

scum sensor ? you craz

unless you meant something else

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