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AzogtheDefiler

Junc - Azog Duke UNC Discussion

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I don't really care about student athlete "academics." Feel free to think that it matters or that it's on the up and up in any of the big NCAA sports programs across America.

If you meant academics as a school and not just for student athletes, then again, kudos. For me, UConn was fine. I went there along with my closest friends, and suffice to say that between the 8 of us, 5 are doctors, 1 is at a hedge fund, 1 is at a private equity firm, and 1 is an actuary for the top accounting firm of the big 4. So that's great for you that Duke has a higher rep academically- it just doesn't really mean anything to this discussion.

Then again, you already know that academics has nothing to do with why this thread was even started, don't you? This thread is about hoops - and then you turned into just mens hoops when you realized Duke couldn't compete with hoops in general.

It's cool though. I get it. Why should you care about women's hoops? Duke sucks. It would be like me attempting to care about UConn's curling team. Easy to not care when there's nothing to root for.   

LOL - so defensive. I love it. It is also impressive that one of you actually became a hedge fund. Now that is transformative. Since I started the bloody thread I can do what I like and yeah your teams upset the Dukies congrats. But Blue Devils are constantly on TV and have a sick recruiting class coming in. We'll see where UCONN is this year and next. That damn Khalid El Amin! UGH!

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Didn't like any of those games very much.  I enjoyed this one though:  :P

 

ohh that was a tough one.  Danya Abrams is a local guy, I have discussed that game w/ him.  it wasn't fun.

 

this one was more fun:

 

 

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another reason I hate K, 2 years ago a few miles down the road in better conditions duke couldn't get to the Smith Center b/c they knew the building would be filled w/ students and the atmosphere wild unlike the regular atmosphere w/ the older fans around the court.  Saturday in worse conditions farther away they manage to get to the PNC center b/c they knew it would be empty but congrats for gutting out a win, an undermanned duke team w/ 1 injury to a role player winning on  the road.  what guts!:lol:

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LOL - so defensive. I love it. It is also impressive that one of you actually became a hedge fund. Now that is transformative. Since I started the bloody thread I can do what I like and yeah your teams upset the Dukies congrats. But Blue Devils are constantly on TV and have a sick recruiting class coming in. We'll see where UCONN is this year and next. That damn Khalid El Amin! UGH!

Defensive? I came in to your thread about top basketball programs to talk about UConn, and you started talking about academics and that girls hoops dont matter and whatever else. 

Just trying to keep it on track, is all. When talking about top hoops programs, UConn is unmatched over the past two decades. 

It's cool though. I'll leave so you guys can talk about duke/unc. My work here is done.

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Defensive? I came in to your thread about top basketball programs to talk about UConn, and you started talking about academics and that girls hoops dont matter and whatever else. 

Just trying to keep it on track, is all. When talking about top hoops programs, UConn is unmatched over the past two decades. 

It's cool though. I'll leave so you guys can talk about duke/unc. My work here is done.

to say they are unmatched is silly.  they only have 5 FFs in the past 2 decades and numerous times missing the tourney.

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to say they are unmatched is silly.  they only have 5 FFs in the past 2 decades and numerous times missing the tourney.

Unmatched? UCONN has been solid but that is extreme. Plus as you said this is the thread where Junc and I discuss the true royalty of CB.  

Mens: 4 championships in the last two decades

Womens: 9 championships in the last two decades

Who has matched that?

Feel free to discount the women because your school's women's program suck, if that make it less painful for you.

You'll find that it's really not silly or extreme to say they're unmatched over the past two decades.

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Mens: 4 championships in the last two decades

Womens: 9 championships in the last two decades

Who has matched that?

Feel free to discount the women because your school's women's program suck, if that make it less painful for you.

You'll find that it's really not silly or extreme to say they're unmatched over the past two decades.

no one cares about women's basketball so please stop bringing them up.

4 championships is outstanding but again only 5 FFs, missed the Tourney numerous times and the last 2 titles were surprise runs where they got hot at the right time(like the Giants did in football, it doesn't show greatness),

 

 

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no one cares about women's basketball so please stop bringing them up.

4 championships is outstanding but again only 5 FFs, missed the Tourney numerous times and the last 2 titles were surprise runs where they got hot at the right time(like the Giants did in football, it doesn't show greatness),

 

 

Show me where I said anything about greatness or FFs or tourneys. Go ahead.

I said they are unmatched in the last 20 years. You called it silly. Agoz called it extreme. I call it a fact. No other program has 4 mens championships or 9 womens championships to it's name in the past 20 years. If it's so silly or extreme, prove me wrong. 

 

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Show me where I said anything about greatness or FFs or tourneys. Go ahead.

I said they are unmatched in the last 20 years. You called it silly. Agoz called it extreme. I call it a fact. No other program has 4 mens championships or 9 womens championships to it's name in the past 20 years. If it's so silly or extreme, prove me wrong. 

 

Agoz? Should we discuss football and gymnastics too? Women's hoops is centered in like five schools and yes UCONN has dominated. I have not watched one game. As for the men's yes UCONN has been very good but they do not have the cache of Duke or UNC. In fact Duke and UNC together are great and the match is a must see game. UCONN just does not have that rivalry or cache. Sorry man. For all your success the school/program is not on the level of Duke, Kansas, KY, UNC, UCLA, etc. But you are the kings or queens I guess of women's hoop and men's foosball. Congrats. Now go open another hedge fund. 

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Show me where I said anything about greatness or FFs or tourneys. Go ahead.

I said they are unmatched in the last 20 years. You called it silly. Agoz called it extreme. I call it a fact. No other program has 4 mens championships or 9 womens championships to it's name in the past 20 years. If it's so silly or extreme, prove me wrong. 

 

you said their success was "unmatched" and that isn't true. yes they have more championships.

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you said their success was "unmatched" and that isn't true. yes they have more championships.

I guess his operational definition of success is solely championships. As such Duke's success is unmatched over the past 12 month. 

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For all your success the school/program is not on the level of Duke

Right, we're better. 4>3, including directly taking two championships from you in 99 and 04.

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you said their success was "unmatched" and that isn't true. yes they have more championships.

Seriously with this? Lol. Talk about double speak....uconn has more championships that anyone else in the past 20 years, but others with less championships have matched UConn's championships? Interesting take. 

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Seriously with this? Lol. Talk about double speak....uconn has more championships that anyone else in the past 20 years, but others with less championships have matched UConn's championships? Interesting take. 

Your operational definition of unmatched differs from mine. Congrats on the women's team but we are discussing men's only here. If you include women's then you are correct. How does your recruiting class (men's) look for next yr? 

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Right, we're better. 4>3, including directly taking two championships from you in 99 and 04.

Correct and both games were upset wins. In CB as you know it is one and done. However over the past 20 years has Uconn amassed more total wins than Duke and UNC?

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Seriously with this? Lol. Talk about double speak....uconn has more championships that anyone else in the past 20 years, but others with less championships have matched UConn's championships? Interesting take. 

so just say they have more championships than any program in the last 20 years.  problem solved.  doesn't mean they have been the most successful program of last 20 years. 

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Your operational definition of unmatched differs from mine. Congrats on the women's team but we are discussing men's only here. If you include women's then you are correct. How does your recruiting class (men's) look for next yr? 

I'm correct even if you exclude the women. 

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so just say they have more championships than any program in the last 20 years.  problem solved.  doesn't mean they have been the most successful program of last 20 years. 

Are championships not the ultimate definition of success?

Saying that UConn Men's hoops 4 championships is unmatched is a fact. Calling those 4 championships a success is also a fact.  

Sorry if it hurts yours and azog's feeling's, but facts are facts. I'm not the one using "operational definitions"...calling a championship a success is a global affiliation.

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Are championships not the ultimate definition of success?

Saying that UConn Men's hoops 4 championships is unmatched is a fact. Calling those 4 championships a success is also a fact.  

Sorry if it hurts yours and azog's feeling's, but facts are facts. I'm not the one using "operational definitions"...calling a championship a success is a global affiliation.

I think the entire body of work needs to be looked at, the last 2 runs were getting hot at the right time.  they weren't big time teams.

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Seriously? UConn has 4 titles in the last 20 years. No one else has more than 3. Yet UConn doesn't crack the top 10 in your link, and you're trying to use it for validity?

That's as weak as I've ever seen. 

My link? I didn't create it and why are we using 20 yrs as the benchmark? Let us use 30 years and now where do you stand? 4 vs. 5? How about FFs? Why use a timeframe that is convenient for you? How many tourneys has UCONN missed since 1986 and how many has Duke?

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I think the entire body of work needs to be looked at, the last 2 runs were getting hot at the right time.  they weren't big time teams.

Winning championships is success. Everything you do, from recruiting to transfers to practice, etc, is all to win championships. More championships=more success. So again, UConn's success over the last twenty years in mens basketball is unmatched.

The fact that they get hot at the right time and take the country by storm without top talent is a testament to the program itself- and instead you're trying to use it as a reason for why the program shouldn't be considered elite. By contrast, Duke/UNC/KU/UK have great recruits and transfers year in and year out, yet they haven't matched UConn's success since '96.

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Winning championships is success. Everything you do, from recruiting to transfers to practice, etc, is all to win championships. More championships=more success. So again, UConn's success over the last twenty years in mens basketball is unmatched.

The fact that they get hot at the right time and take the country by storm without top talent is a testament to the program itself- and instead you're trying to use it as a reason for why the program shouldn't be considered elite. By contrast, Duke/UNC/KU/UK have great recruits and transfers year in and year out, yet they haven't matched UConn's success since '96.

Since 1979 total NCAA appearances:

 

UNC: 34

Duke: 33

UCONN: 20

 

Stop the insanity. Duke has 5 Natl titles since 1990 and UCONN has 4. Stop picking arbitrary dates for your argument. How about since last March Duke has the most National Championships. Has a sick recruiting class coming in next yr. as well. Let us see how UCONN does. 

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Winning championships is success. Everything you do, from recruiting to transfers to practice, etc, is all to win championships. More championships=more success. So again, UConn's success over the last twenty years in mens basketball is unmatched.

The fact that they get hot at the right time and take the country by storm without top talent is a testament to the program itself- and instead you're trying to use it as a reason for why the program shouldn't be considered elite. By contrast, Duke/UNC/KU/UK have great recruits and transfers year in and year out, yet they haven't matched UConn's success since '96.

duke/UNC/KU/Uk have been much better programs than UConn and let's not act like UConn doesn't get top talent.  if they ahd the talent to win in March/April then they had it to win during the reg season and that is where greatness comes from.  You need to do it all the time nit part of the time.

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My link? I didn't create it and why are we using 20 yrs as the benchmark? Let us use 30 years and now where do you stand? 4 vs. 5? How about FFs? Why use a timeframe that is convenient for you? How many tourneys has UCONN missed since 1986 and how many has Duke?

20 years is the amount of time that I've watched and understood college basketball. I like to keep these kinds of things within my own perspective. Like the Jets not winning in 47 years or whatever....I don't give a sh*t about that. I care about only the most recent 16 years or so that I've actually cared about the team.

You want to use 30 years? Fine. Duke has 5, UConn has 4, UNC has 3. UConn is still a national powerhouse. 

But why the arbitrary timeline azog? Why not use all time? Then none of us belong in the discussion. It's UCLA and UK. That better for you?

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20 years is the amount of time that I've watched and understood college basketball. I like to keep these kinds of things within my own perspective. Like the Jets not winning in 47 years or whatever....I don't give a sh*t about that. I care about only the most recent 16 years or so that I've actually cared about the team.

You want to use 30 years? Fine. Duke has 5, UConn has 4, UNC has 3. UConn is still a national powerhouse. 

But why the arbitrary timeline azog? Why not use all time? Then none of us belong in the discussion. It's UCLA and UK. That better for you?

1990 = modern era right? Cable TV, 64 team field, 3 pt shot, etc. 1996 just doesn't make any freaking sense to me such an arbitrary date. So if we start counting from the modern era of the 3 pts shot. Duke is better than UCONN. Has sent more players to the NBA and has more Natl titles (your definition of better). UCONN is also a bigger school so it collects from a bigger pool. Duke is a small private college and must use guile to recruit or at least it did until K made it THE place to go. 

 

UNC would have had more titles but unfortunately since 1984 it has had to deal with Duke and hence both schools have beat each other up a tad. :)

 

 

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Since 1979 total NCAA appearances:

 

UNC: 34

Duke: 33

UCONN: 20

 

Stop the insanity. Duke has 5 Natl titles since 1990 and UCONN has 4. Stop picking arbitrary dates for your argument. How about since last March Duke has the most National Championships. Has a sick recruiting class coming in next yr. as well. Let us see how UCONN does. 

That's great. UConn wasn't even on the map till 1990, but good for you. Even so, Duke has only 1 more championship in 11 additional years of relevancy. 

I think you're still upset about '99 and '04. Must suck that UConn's first two championships as a newbie on the college basketball scene came at the expense of a national powerhouse like Duke. So I get your outrage. 

As for "arbitrary dates", it is what it is. I'm trying to keep it in the scope of when I became a fan. Wanna use 1990 when UConn became relevant? Fine. UConn in 25 years on the national college basketball scene has amassed 4 championships. Duke in 36 years has one more. I can see why you're upset.

Edited by greenwichjetfan

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1990 = modern era right? Cable TV, 64 team field, 3 pt shot, etc. 1996 just doesn't make any freaking sense to me such an arbitrary date. So if we start counting from the modern era of the 3 pts shot. Duke is better than UCONN. Has sent more players to the NBA and has more Natl titles (your definition of better). UCONN is also a bigger school so it collects from a bigger pool. Duke is a small private college and must use guile to recruit or at least it did until K made it THE place to go. 

 

UNC would have had more titles but unfortunately since 1984 it has had to deal with Duke and hence both schools have beat each other up a tad. :)

 

 

Fine, use the modern era. Duke 5, UConn 4, UNC 3. UConn is still up there at the top and is better than UNC. 

Duke would have had more too, but unfortunately since UConn became an actual hoops program, we've gotten in your way. 

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That's great. UConn wasn't even on the map till 1990, but good for you. Even so, Duke has only 1 more championship in 11 additional years of relevancy. 

I think you're still upset about '99 and '04. Must suck that UConn's first two championships as a newbie on the college basketball scene came at the expense of a national powerhouse like Duke. So I get your outrage. 

As for "arbitrary dates", it is what it is. UConn in 25 years on the national college basketball scene has amassed 4 championships. Duke in 36 years has one more. I can see why you're upset.

Duke became relevant after the arrival of K and he had to deal with some serious heavy hitters in the ACC with Smith, Valvano, Cremins among others. He took a team to the Natl championship in 1986 and lost to Ellison and Louisville but since then the school has been relevant and consistently in the Natl Championship pic. You and I both know how hard it is to win in the 1 and done tourney. Upsets happen. So since the K era, Duke has been the best team in CB. Period. UCONN cannot compare. I am sorry man. Even your Natl title argument falls one short and you have to agree that there is a better chance of Duke getting #6 than UCONN getting #5. 

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Fine, use the modern era. Duke 5, UConn 4, UNC 3. UConn is still up there at the top and is better than UNC. 

Duke would have had more too, but unfortunately since UConn became an actual hoops program, we've gotten in your way. 

Correct those upsets are annoying but such is life in the tourney. This year Duke is down as Jefferson got hurt and they have had to rely heavily on the Frosh losing three players to the NBA last year and a very good senior in Cook. But next year they will be a powerhouse again despite losing Ingram, especially if Allen stays. As they add Giles and Tatum. Arguably the #1 and #2 HS players in the country. 

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Duke became relevant after the arrival of K and he had to deal with some serious heavy hitters in the ACC with Smith, Valvano, Cremins among others. He took a team to the Natl championship in 1986 and lost to Ellison and Louisville but since then the school has been relevant and consistently in the Natl Championship pic. You and I both know how hard it is to win in the 1 and done tourney. Upsets happen. So since the K era, Duke has been the best team in CB. Period. UCONN cannot compare. I am sorry man. Even your Natl title argument falls one short and you have to agree that there is a better chance of Duke getting #6 than UCONN getting #5. 

Correct those upsets are annoying but such is life in the tourney. This year Duke is down as Jefferson got hurt and they have had to rely heavily on the Frosh losing three players to the NBA last year and a very good senior in Cook. But next year they will be a powerhouse again despite losing Ingram, especially if Allen stays. As they add Giles and Tatum. Arguably the #1 and #2 HS players in the country. 

Exactly. Top recruits. Top talent. Year in. Year out. Still, less titles than UConn when kept within the scope of my fandom, and only 1 more title when blown out an additional 16 years to the scope of coach K's tenure. And all three programs are in the top 6 when blown out to the entire scope of NCAA mens basketball history. 

How that doesn't compare is mind boggling. Ultimately it just comes down to hurt feelings for Duke and UNC fans. You guys want all the glory and are willing to be blind about it and go as far as to say that (paraphrasing) 'national championships aren't the measure of success' to get it. 

Edited by greenwichjetfan

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