Junc - Azog Duke UNC Discussion

[AzogtheDefiler]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Ingram is as good as any of the freshman last year, maybe better. if he went to Carolina like he was supposed to the heels would be almost unbeatable and I'm not sure duke would have made the Tourney.

Jeter is what jeter is, K doesn't develop players.  he could have played him more earlier in the year but he doesn't ever believe in developing a bench so he can't use the depth as an excuse.

He gave him minutes and he just was not ready. Stop saying he doesn't develop players. You are flat wrong on that statement. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Let's Go Irish!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

ahh greenwich, you are a funny boy.

you asked me if uconn still has a program, i answered. then i asked you the same thing twice, and you bitched out, as per usual. here, i'll post it a third time:

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

does UConn still have a men's basketball program? haven't seen them on TV in years

Yes, they do. UConn has two natn'l championships this decade. 

Is unc even relevant? They haven't even sniffed a final four this decade.

[AzogtheDefiler]

FACT: COACH K DOES DEVELOP PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

He gave him minutes and he just was not ready. Stop saying he doesn't develop players. You are flat wrong on that statement. 

was Luke Maye ready? Kenny Williams? they played early in the season(and Williams had a great stretch yesterday to help Carolina win). Roy could bury them on the bench w/ others and claim he doesn't have depth, coaches develop depth.  who recruited the players? they got a good transfer in Obi who was expected to contribute and he never saw the floor.

he doesn't develop players, that is reality.

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

you asked me if uconn still has a program, i answered. then i asked you the same thing twice, and you bitched out, as per usual. here, i'll post it a third time:

Yes, they do. UConn has two natn'l championships this decade. 

Is unc even relevant? They haven't even sniffed a final four this decade.

UNC is playing tonight in primetime after winning the reg season title in the best conf in the Country and they are working on a #1 seed in the NCAA Tourney.  that seems relevant to me?

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

FACT: COACH K DOES DEVELOP PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's not, look at Gbinije.  couldn't play at duke, transfers and becomes a very good player.  why couldn't K give him a chance? the same thing will probably happen w/ Jeter.  yes, there are a few examples of players developing like Cook last year and a few others but they are very rare.  if they can play right away they play and thrive, if not they sit, don't develop and many transfer out.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

UNC is playing tonight in primetime after winning the reg season title in the best conf in the Country and they are working on a #1 seed in the NCAA Tourney.  that seems relevant to me?

Aren't you all about just winning championships though? Isn't that why you're brady's biggest supporter on all of JN...even bigger than pats fans? What does that say about unc? only two championships in the last two decades. no final fours this decade. And if they're still relevant after all of their consistent losing, how is uconn irrelevant given that they have two natn'l champs this decade alone...coming from two different coaching staffs and two different conferences?

[AzogtheDefiler]

I have followed Duke since 1984 and I can guaranty you some of the players you see from year 1 to year 4 have improved ridiculously. Kennard is just too thin and foul prone. Thornton should be a HS senior. 

Last year, Winslow improved immensely under K and look at how much better Allen is year over year. Same for Nolan Smith, Quin Cook, Kyle Singler, ALL the Plumlees. The list is numerous. I respect UNC as a hated rival but if you again state that Coach K does not develop his players this convo is over. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Aren't you all about just winning championships though? Isn't that why you're brady's biggest supporter on all of JN...even bigger than pats fans? What does that say about unc? only two championships in the last two decades. no final fours this decade. And if they're still relevant after all of their consistent losing, how is uconn irrelevant given that they have two natn'l champs this decade alone...coming from two different coaching staffs and two different conferences?

So UCONN is Denver and Duke is New England? Who is UNC? The Steelers?

 

 

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Aren't you all about just winning championships though? Isn't that why you're brady's biggest supporter on all of JN...even bigger than pats fans? What does that say about unc? only two championships in the last two decades. no final fours this decade. And if they're still relevant after all of their consistent losing, how is uconn irrelevant given that they have two natn'l champs this decade alone...coming from two different coaching staffs and two different conferences?

It's not just about championships, it's about the ability to continually compete for them.  the FF drought has been frustrating but there have been many circumstances.

2009 they win it all w/ one of the best teams in the last 20 years(I would say 2nd best behind UK '96), they lost a ton of players including multiple early.  In 2010 they then lost their top 2 players to injury or easily would have been a tourney team.

 

2011 they are back among the elite as a 2 seed and playing a tight game for the FF.  they lost a close game

2012 they were best team in the Country, john henson gets hurt in ACCT then they lose Kendall Marshall in 2nd rd and still make elite 8 and play close game despite being in SL against kansas.  the Heels had a 4th string PG starting and playing most of that game, he was a freshman.  that freshman then took  a 2 year mormon mission and came back a year ago.  he is now a Jr and cannot get on the court yet in the elite 8 in 2012 he was the PG.

2013 they lost Henson, Barnes, Marshall, Zeller

2014 was set up to be a FF type team and their best player gets suspended

2015 they were as good as anyone and played a tough game against eventual runner up in sweet 16

2016 they can win it all.

 

and all of this has been going on w/ the bogus NCAA junk where nothing was proven against the men's basketball team but it has kileld them in recruiting.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

I have followed Duke since 1984 and I can guaranty you some of the players you see from year 1 to year 4 have improved ridiculously. Kennard is just too thin and foul prone. Thornton should be a HS senior. 

Last year, Winslow improved immensely under K and look at how much better Allen is year over year. Same for Nolan Smith, Quin Cook, Kyle Singler, ALL the Plumlees. The list is numerous. I respect UNC as a hated rival but if you again state that Coach K does not develop his players this convo is over. 

Kennard is a good player.

He convinced Thornton to reclassify

Winslow was great from the start

Allen is better b/c he plays more, last year he didn't get to play much.

 

name all the players through the years that he has developed? I can name a million at Carolina in the same time frame(I go back to around that time as well).

[AzogtheDefiler]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's not, look at Gbinije.  couldn't play at duke, transfers and becomes a very good player.  why couldn't K give him a chance? the same thing will probably happen w/ Jeter.  yes, there are a few examples of players developing like Cook last year and a few others but they are very rare.  if they can play right away they play and thrive, if not they sit, don't develop and many transfer out.

Gbinije was just OK at Cuse and he did get PT at Duke.

 

I saw him develop Amaker, Nolan Smith, Amile Jefferson (your fave), Antonio Lang, Alaa Abdelnaby, Jeff Capel, Lance Thomas, Chris Duhon....Come on. I can name 20 more players. A lot of PT is earned in practice too. I don't think GBIJ is a "very good" player. He is decent at best. Battier and Carrawell also improved significantly from their Frosh seasons. If anything Coach K coaches up his players. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It's not just about championships, it's about the ability to continually compete for them.  the FF drought has been frustrating but there have been many circumstances.

2009 they win it all w/ one of the best teams in the last 20 years(I would say 2nd best behind UK '96), they lost a ton of players including multiple early.  In 2010 they then lost their top 2 players to injury or easily would have been a tourney team.

 

2011 they are back among the elite as a 2 seed and playing a tight game for the FF.  they lost a close game

2012 they were best team in the Country, john henson gets hurt in ACCT then they lose Kendall Marshall in 2nd rd and still make elite 8 and play close game despite being in SL against kansas.  the Heels had a 4th string PG starting and playing most of that game, he was a freshman.  that freshman then took  a 2 year mormon mission and came back a year ago.  he is now a Jr and cannot get on the court yet in the elite 8 in 2012 he was the PG.

2013 they lost Henson, Barnes, Marshall, Zeller

2014 was set up to be a FF type team and their best player gets suspended

2015 they were as good as anyone and played a tough game against eventual runner up in sweet 16

2016 they can win it all.

 

and all of this has been going on w/ the bogus NCAA junk where nothing was proven against the men's basketball team but it has kileld them in recruiting.

I don't think anyone is arguing that UNC is legit? 

[nyjunc]

Just now, AzogtheDefiler said:

Gbinije was just OK at Cuse and he did get PT at Duke.

 

I saw him develop Amaker, Nolan Smith, Amile Jefferson (your fave), Antonio Lang, Alaa Abdelnaby, Jeff Capel, Lance Thomas, Chris Duhon....Come on. I can name 20 more players. A lot of PT is earned in practice too. I don't think GBIJ is a "very good" player. He is decent at best. Battier and Carrawell also improved significantly from their Frosh seasons. If anything Coach K coaches up his players. 

he was 2nd team all ACC, that's pretty damn good.  carolina didn't get a single player 2nd or 3rd team all ACC

I won't comment on Amaker, I don't remember what he was rated coming out of HS.

Smith was the son of a former NBA player and a big time recruit though he did develop as he wasn't very good when he arrived

Lang was nothing more than solid role player

capel was a mcD's guy, started as freshman

Thomas didn't do anything in college other than foul

Duhon was highly sought after recruit, major player as freshman

 

battier started as freshman, part of heralded class.

Carrawell I will give you.  so that's about 2-3 guys in almost 40 years

[greenwichjetfan]

25 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It's not just about championships, it's about the ability to continually compete for them.

This is the only thing that matters in your entire post. The rest is all excuses. For someone who doesn't give Peyton any benefits of the doubts and calls all of the reasons for his losses: excuses, this is extremely hypocritical. Ultimately, after all of those excuses, the fact is, UNC hasn't competed for a natn'l champ since '09 which was the last time they even made it out of the elite8. 

Meanwhile UConn has continually competed for championships, including winning 4 of them, since 1999. That's at least one championship in each of the last three decades: the '90s, '00s, and '10s, including two in the last 5 years. And that's including a monumental coaching change, and a conference change. So once again, if all of that makes UConn irrelevant, then what does that make UNC?

[greenwichjetfan]

28 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that UNC is legit? 

He's arguing it in his own head. It's an inferiority complex. Happens to people who are continually suppressed, such as UNC fans. 

4-12 against Duke and no final fours in the last 5 years, while an "irrelevant" "womans hoops school" like UConn is off winning two natn'l champs with two different coaches and in two conferences in that same span will do that to ya. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

This is the only thing that matters in your entire post. The rest is all excuses. For someone who doesn't give Peyton any benefits of the doubts and calls all of the reasons for his losses: excuses, this is extremely hypocritical. Ultimately, after all of those excuses, the fact is, UNC hasn't competed for a natn'l champ since '09 which was the last time they even made it out of the elite8. 

Meanwhile UConn has continually competed for championships, including winning 4 of them, since 1999. That's at least one championship in each of the last three decades: the '90s, '00s, and '10s, including two in the last 5 years. And that's including a monumental coaching change, and a conference change. So once again, if all of that makes UConn irrelevant, then what does that make UNC?

professional and collegiate sports are very different and I always give Peyton credit for giving his teams chances by getting to postseason but he has gagged so many times I knock him down.  he should have 4-5 SBs at least(esepcially including the gift he was just given).

 

all jokes aside, UConn had a GREAT men's basketball program.  definitely up there w/ the Carolina's, duke's and others for about 20 years or so.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

He's arguing it in his own head. It's an inferiority complex. Happens to people who are continually suppressed, such as UNC fans. 

4-12 against Duke and no final fours in the last 5 years while an irrelevant womans hoops school like UConn is off winning two natn'l champs with two different coaches and in two conferences in that same span will do that to ya. 

the only one w/ an inferiority complex is the one who has to come into a thread that has nothing to do w/ UConn and continually try to tell us how great they are.

[AzogtheDefiler]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

he was 2nd team all ACC, that's pretty damn good.  carolina didn't get a single player 2nd or 3rd team all ACC

I won't comment on Amaker, I don't remember what he was rated coming out of HS.

Smith was the son of a former NBA player and a big time recruit though he did develop as he wasn't very good when he arrived

Lang was nothing more than solid role player

capel was a mcD's guy, started as freshman

Thomas didn't do anything in college other than foul

Duhon was highly sought after recruit, major player as freshman

 

battier started as freshman, part of heralded class.

Carrawell I will give you.  so that's about 2-3 guys in almost 40 years

#1) Brian Davis - became a critical role player on 2 NATL champ teams

#2) Daniel Ewing - Improved notably and made it to the NBA

#3) Dahntay Jones - Went from D specialist to an all around player and made it to the NBA

#4) Antonio Lang - From frosh bench warmer to solid contributor

#5) Lance Thomas - From rebounding an D specialist

#6) ALL THREE PLUMLEES - Two are in the NBA!!!!

#7) JJ Redick - Completely rebuilt his body from frosh year to subsequent years and became a way better player.

#8) Wojo - Improved each and every year as the starting PG

#9) Jon Scheyer - Won a Natl Championship and transitioned to a PG role. 

#10) Nate James - from a specialist to a full time player now Coach.

 

 

Please stop the madness! 

[AzogtheDefiler]

36 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Kennard is a good player.

He convinced Thornton to reclassify

Winslow was great from the start

Allen is better b/c he plays more, last year he didn't get to play much.

 

name all the players through the years that he has developed? I can name a million at Carolina in the same time frame(I go back to around that time as well).

Kennard has improved from day 1 to now

Thornton is still young though! Watch him improve

NO Winslow was benched for a couple of games then came back and played much better

Allen put on more muscle and just developed his game more.

 

This is blasphemy. If he recruited so well more of his players would be NBA stars. He wins because he gets the most out of his talent and adjusts playing style based on that talent.

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

#1) Brian Davis - became a critical role player on 2 NATL champ teams

#2) Daniel Ewing - Improved notably and made it to the NBA

#3) Dahntay Jones - Went from D specialist to an all around player and made it to the NBA

#4) Antonio Lang - From frosh bench warmer to solid contributor

#5) Lance Thomas - From rebounding an D specialist

#6) ALL THREE PLUMLEES - Two are in the NBA!!!!

#7) JJ Redick - Completely rebuilt his body from frosh year to subsequent years and became a way better player.

#8) Wojo - Improved each and every year as the starting PG

#9) Jon Scheyer - Won a Natl Championship and transitioned to a PG role. 

#10) Nate James - from a specialist to a full time player now Coach.

 

 

Please stop the madness! 

Davis- ok

Ewing- big time recruit, eventually became good player

3 Jones was highly sought after transfer.  not giving you that one

Lang- discussed earlier

Thomas- he was a fouler in college

all 3 Plumless were major recruits, NBA talents.  he held them back if anything

Redick was big time recruit and was really good from day 1.  never developed

scheyer another big time recruit but he did improve over his years there

I give you Nate

 

You have a handful in 40 years.  he's always been more about himself than developing players, if guys can play they play and if not he discards them.

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

Kennard has improved from day 1 to now

Thornton is still young though! Watch him improve

NO Winslow was benched for a couple of games then came back and played much better

Allen put on more muscle and just developed his game more.

 

This is blasphemy. If he recruited so well more of his players would be NBA stars. He wins because he gets the most out of his talent and adjusts playing style based on that talent.

Kennard proved he could play day 1.

Thornton will be on the bench next year

Winslow was great all year

Allen was about PT, when he played he produced.

[AzogtheDefiler]

UNC fans are relentless. Yes. K sucks. Worst coach of all time. And cannot recruit either.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

UNC fans are relentless. Yes. K sucks. Worst coach of all time. And cannot recruit either.

it's reality, he's a great coach but he is not known for developing talent.  he is known for bending every rule possible, working refs, teaching players to flop, sell fouls, play dirty, deflecting blame from every loss and having the best PR machine in the business.

[AzogtheDefiler]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

it's reality, he's a great coach but he is not known for developing talent.  he is known for bending every rule possible, working refs, teaching players to flop, sell fouls, play dirty, deflecting blame from every loss and having the best PR machine in the business.

Opinions vary

[nyjunc]

Just now, AzogtheDefiler said:

Opinions vary

absolutely and as much as I try to be objective all the time I have a hard time when it comes to K and duke.

[AzogtheDefiler]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

absolutely and as much as I try to be objective all the time I have a hard time when it comes to K and duke.

Of course. Duke is the better program. 

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

Of course. Duke is the better program. 

we know that is not true, better lately though.

part of what makes Carolina great is having a rival like duke and part of what makes duke great is having a rival like Carolina.  best rivalry in sports.

[Jetsfan80]

UNCW is taking down Duke on Thursday. I guarantee it.

[nyjunc]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

UNCW is taking down Duke on Thursday. I guarantee it.

I hope you are right, duke is due.  they lost in rd 1 in 2012 and 2014 so they are on pace for 2016

[AzogtheDefiler]

UGH...I hope not. The Bracket seems favorable.

[AzogtheDefiler]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I hope you are right, duke is due.  they lost in rd 1 in 2012 and 2014 so they are on pace for 2016

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/bracket-lames-200925976.html

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

UGH...I hope not. The Bracket seems favorable.

Duke has a thin bench, and with Kevin Keatts (Pitino coaching tree) following the Louisville model of press defense, it plays right into our advantage.  Duke has also allowed 79.2 points per game their last 5 contests, and UNCW is 34th in the nation in scoring (no, the CAA was not weak this year if that's what you're thinking; ranked the 9th strongest conference in the nation).

Not just going on blind hope on this.  We've got legitimate talent.

[nyjunc]

33 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/bracket-lames-200925976.html

 

it amazes me how much this team is being bashed, they win the toughest conf in the Country(reg and tourney), they beat ND by 30, Pitt by almost 20, handle a really good UVa team- they are playing their best basketball of the year and yet no respect.  UK is getting more respect for winning the weak SEC.  Thankfully this is college basketball where you get to earn it on the court and it is not handed to you like college football.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Duke has a thin bench, and with Kevin Keatts (Pitino coaching tree) following the Louisville model of press defense, it plays right into our advantage.  Duke has also allowed 79.2 points per game their last 5 contests, and UNCW is 34th in the nation in scoring (no, the CAA was not weak this year if that's what you're thinking; ranked the 9th strongest conference in the nation).

Not just going on blind hope on this.  We've got legitimate talent.

I think they have a legit shot too.  Have to hope duke isn't lighting it up from 3 and see if you can get Allen/Ingram into foul trouble.