Jets_Win Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I didn't see a thread for this and just heard about it today. Intention is not for this to devolve into another Jets/MetLife PSL debate but good for the fans in St. Louis for taking some action against Stan Kroenke. Opinions differ about the Rams' relocation - the team sucked anyway, the franchise moved from L.A./O.C. to St. Louis - but I think as fans we can support this suit by fellow fans against an NFL owner. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/illinois/personal-seat-license-holders-sue-rams/article_0d6e239f-639a-5d95-b20e-14e514e074e9.html Some holders of Rams personal seat licenses are suing the team’s owners alleging that the licenses should remain valid even though the team is leaving for Los Angeles. They argue in the lawsuit filed in St. Louis County Circuit Court that they purchased their PSLs under an agreement that the licenses would stay valid until March 2025, no matter where the Rams play. “It’s our position that our clients are entitled to either purchase tickets for the games being played in L.A., or whatever stadium they’re being played at, or to transfer their PSLs, which is a right to purchase tickets up through 2025,” said David Bohm, the lawyer who prepared the lawsuit. A Rams executive declined on Wednesday to comment on the lawsuit. According to the agreement that one of the plaintiffs received with purchase of the PSL, in the case that the Rams do not play at the normal St. Louis stadium, the team “will use its best efforts to assure Licensee the right to purchase, on a pro rata priority basis, tickets for seats in the stadium where the transferred games are played.” Bohm said the Rams “have made it clear in a communication” that current PSL holders would have no right to buy season tickets in L.A. or transfer them. After the NFL approved the Rams’ move to Los Angeles last week, the team shut down the sale of PSLs and posted on its website that PSL “transfers can no longer be processed.” The PSL agreement also states that the Rams reserve the right to terminate the agreement and refund “part or all” of a PSL holder’s deposit. The lawsuit also claims that the Rams have failed to offer to sell season tickets to current PSL holders. Pause Current Time0:00 / Duration Time0:00 Loaded: 0% Progress: 0% 0:00 Fullscreen 00:00 Unmute Bohm is representing his brother, Robert Bohm, and Robert’s wife, Sue, both St. Louis County residents who spent $1,000 on two PSLs when the Rams moved to St. Louis. Other plaintiffs are Edward Mock, a resident of St. Charles County, and Envision LLC, an IT consulting firm and staffing agency that bought six PSLs for a total of $27,000. The lawsuit suggests that the court consider it a class-action suit on behalf of the thousands of other PSL holders. This is the second lawsuit known to have been filed against the Rams since the team announced its official move. The first called for the Rams to give refunds to fans who have spent money on the team since Stan Kroenke became its owner in 2010, claiming the Rams deceived fans with false promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Good for them, f the greedy owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Yes, good for them. The entire league is being destroyed by greed. the only way things change is if..1) people stop going and watching (which doesn't seem to b happening) 2) To cost the owners money is other ways i.e. lawsuits.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Really interested to see how this turns out. Hopefully makes enough news to be noticed by the masses. A big move like this sucks for PSL holders (or any fan). Doubtful many would actually attend most (if any) games that far away, but they paid for the BS PSLs. At bare minimum they should be able to benefit from being able to still purchase tickets in equivalent seats and then perhaps attend a game or two a season while profiting from the LA market for the rest of the games. If not, hopefully people see PSLs as a joke and don't buy them anymore. Would have to imagine the NFL sees this and concedes. Otherwise they're screwing themselves on future stadiums. Who the hell would lay out thousands or tens of thousands for a PSL that can become worthless overnight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 If their PSL Agreement grants them a right they can sue over, good for them. Gonna guess the PSL agreement is clear cut and doesn't give them sh*t, and it'll get tossed out of court in short order. NFL and team lawyers are generally not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtina Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The St. Louis Rams had PSL's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Obviously no idea about the legals, but I don't think they should have rights to the seats in LA, but they should be reimbursed in some way for a portion of their PSLs paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets_Win Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 If their PSL Agreement grants them a right they can sue over, good for them. Gonna guess the PSL agreement is clear cut and doesn't give them sh*t, and it'll get tossed out of court in short order. NFL and team lawyers are generally not stupid. From what I read there seem to be conflicting clauses, the agreement can be terminated at any time by the team BUT the contract doesn't stipulate the games had to be played in St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 NFL and team lawyers are generally not stupid. Two words "Brady appeal"; granted they will probably plow over the masses, but no reason for the lack of procedure and law interpretation; they got schooled by Brady's lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flushing Roots Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 They can sell their PSLs as any PSL holder can. But why would they want to keep them unless they already live in LA and/or plan to go to the games or want to flip the tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I hope the fans win big on this one. Never understood the PSL to begin with but this seems rather outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 We need the BMW driving guy on here (I can't believe I forgot his name) to give his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Would love to see the fans win this, but I think the Rams and NFL will have more funds to higher better lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtina Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 We need the BMW driving guy on here (I can't believe I forgot his name) to give his opinion. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hopefully this PSL talk lures SAR I out haven't heard from him in weeks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 We need the BMW driving guy on here to give his opinion Hopefully this PSL talk lures SAR I out haven't heard from him in weeks JN doesn't work in China and I just got back. BMW makes a great car, just put the snow tires on her, not sure if I should break the blizzard emergency law and go for bagels but I haven't had a fresh one since New Year's and the jet-lag has me awake. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets_Win Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 This is excerpted from "The Myth & Mystery of Personal Seat Licenses and Season Tickets: Licenses or More?" that appeared in the St. Louis University Law Journal in 2006: Historically, courts have analyzed season tickets and personal seat licenses on a very fact-specific and jurisdiction-specific basis to determine if a property interest exists. Courts often look at the policies of the sports organization or seller of the season tickets regarding revocability of tickets, annual renewal of season tickets, and transfer restrictions on season ticket holder status and personal seat licenses, as well as exceptions to their policies. Additionally, courts have based their findings on state laws. Because of this fact-specific and jurisdiction-specific analysis, court holdings regarding season tickets have conflicted. It seems courts faced with similar facts have different results on the property interest issue. Here, the lack of uniform treatment among courts concerning PSLs and season tickets undercuts the property system. Courts addressing the issue are faced with the difficult decision of which precedent to follow. This divergence makes it difficult for ticket sellers and purchasers to predict how a court addressing this issue may rule in the future. If anyone's really bored and wants to read 26 pages on the law and PSLs, you can do so in PDF form at http://www.slu.edu/Documents/law/Law Journal/Archives/Davis_Article.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 JN doesn't work in China and I just got back. BMW makes a great car, just put the snow tires on her, not sure if I should break the blizzard emergency law and go for bagels but I haven't had a fresh one since New Year's and the jet-lag has me awake. SAR I I would hold off on the bagels for another day or two just for safety. How was China btw? Aren't things supposed to be crashing over there (sort of like here after we lost to Rex the 2nd time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 If the team (owner) can profit from the move to the LA market, then the PSL owners (fans) should be able to profit as well, they invested in the team and should be allowed to buy and resell tickets or resell the PSL's to LA based fans Good luck to Bohm, I would think all PSL holders would support this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 If their PSL Agreement grants them a right they can sue over, good for them. Gonna guess the PSL agreement is clear cut and doesn't give them sh*t, and it'll get tossed out of court in short order. NFL and team lawyers are generally not stupid. You must have missed that whole Deflate thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 We need the BMW driving guy on here (I can't believe I forgot his name) to give his opinion. Investment gold. Just think if you could move your house from the mid-West to the LA area how much of a windfall it would be, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 JN doesn't work in China Thanks, Cromartie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONX DUDE Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 PSL's will be great as soon as Jets draft a Franchise QB. We haven't had one since Namath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 JN doesn't work in China and I just got back. BMW makes a great car, just put the snow tires on her, not sure if I should break the blizzard emergency law and go for bagels but I haven't had a fresh one since New Year's and the jet-lag has me awake. SAR I After all these years, you were right. Just picked up my new BMW last weekend (my first lease ever!). What a great vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 After all these years, you were right. Just picked up my new BMW last weekend (my first lease ever!). What a great vehicle. My first car was a BMW. My dad gave me his when I left for college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 From what I read there seem to be conflicting clauses, the agreement can be terminated at any time by the team BUT the contract doesn't stipulate the games had to be played in St. Louis. Then PSL owners should unbolt their seats and plop them down in the new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 After all these years, you were right. Just picked up my new BMW last weekend (my first lease ever!). What a great vehicle. Congrats! What model, and importantly, what options? SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I would hold off on the bagels for another day or two just for safety. How was China btw? Aren't things supposed to be crashing over there (sort of like here after we lost to Rex the 2nd time). China was good, was a successful trip. I'd rather spend more time in Hong Kong as it's a nicer place but can't complain. Slingbox worked well over there, thought I would need it for a Jets wildcard game, oh well. Thanks, Cromartie LOL, very good. My first car was a BMW. My dad gave me his when I left for college. I got my son an older BMW this past summer for him to take his road test and get used to before the big move to college this September. Time flies. Just yesterday he had a car seat in mine, now he has his own. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Congrats!What model, and importantly, what options? SAR I 435i hard top convertible (black). V6 twin turbo, 435 HP engine. All the gadgets that can come with a vehicle. The car absolutely flies!! Should have listened to you years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 JN doesn't work in China and I just got back. BMW makes a great car, just put the snow tires on her, not sure if I should break the blizzard emergency law and go for bagels but I haven't had a fresh one since New Year's and the jet-lag has me awake. SAR I Most people haven't had to put snow tires on their car since the 70's. Thank god I have an Audi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Most people haven't had to put snow tires on their car since the 70's. Thank god I have an Audi. What are snow tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I just leased one of these guys. They run great in the snow too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I hear this runs really well in the snow too (this was for you, Tx): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 As to the whole PSL/Rams thing...here's what nobody is considering....History suggests that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of the Rams selling out the stadium, so the PSL holders won't be able to make any profit off their tickets most likely anyway. Team should offer the pro-rated license cost back and be done with it. If they don't do that much, they suck and should get roasted. If they do, the fans should let it go and become Chiefs fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Most people haven't had to put snow tires on their car since the 70's. Thank god I have an Audi. All Wheel Drive is a gimmick by car companies to instill false confidence in lazy drivers. Nothing is better than snow tires. And I've owned several All Wheel Drive vehicles, BMW's included. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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