NL adopting DH is gaining momentum

[Maxman]

Manfred indicates NL adopting DH is gaining momentum

During the quarterly owners’ meetings earlier this week, commissioner Rob Manfred acknowledged adopting the DH in the NL is starting to gain some momentum. The league is talking to owners and GMs about a possible change. It doesn’t sound like the MLBPA has been looped into talks just yet.

Here’s some more from Manfred, via Ken Davidoff:

“Twenty years ago, when you talked to National League owners about the DH, you’d think you were talking some heretical comment,” Manfred said, upon the conclusion of Major League Baseball’s quarterly owners’ meetings. “We have a newer group. There’s been turnover. I think our owners in general have demonstrated a willingness to change the game in ways that we think would be good for the fans. Always respecting the history and the traditions for the sport.”

…

“I do think there’s a certain purity to the idea that everybody plays by the same rules,” Manfred said. “The significance of that purity goes up when you have interleague play every day. …Particularly given the difference between leagues, in interleague play, pitchers who don’t hit on a regular basis probably are more likely to have a problem than pitchers who do.”

Manfred called the DH the “biggest remnant of (the NL’s) identity,” and some NL folks are very much opposed to the idea. “We would like to remain real baseball,” said Phillies chairman Dave Montgomery. Turns out we’ve been watching fake baseball all these years, you guys.

Anyway, I’m sure the MLBPA will be on board with bringing the DH to the NL. Roster sizes won’t change but it will create 15 high-paying jobs since DHs historically get paid lots more than bench players. Adding the DH to the NL could also help extend some careers since it’ll give veteran mashers more options after their defensive skills erode.

I am a pro-DH guy. There’s nothing fun about watching pitchers hit, and the argument the NL game has more strategy is overblown. Most NL decisions — bunting, pinch-hitting, etc. — are made for managers by the game situation. Down a run in the seventh and your starter is at 105 pitches? Pinch-hit. See? That wasn’t so hard.

Ultimately, I think it’s only a matter of time until the NL adopts the DH. Owners are going to want to protect their increasingly expensive pitching investments. Last year Adam Wainwright blew out his Achilles running the bases. A few years back ex-Yankee Dustin Moseley tore up his shoulder swinging a bat. We all remember what happened to Chien-Ming Wang in Houston.

The current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires in December and I’m sure we’re going to hear a lot about the DH coming to the NL between now and then. The players figure to be cool with it. It seems like it’ll just be a matter of getting the old school NL owners on board as well.

http://riveraveblues.com/2016/01/manfred-indicates-nl-adopting-dh-is-gaining-momentum-132698/

[Scott Dierking]

On board with keeping it "real" baseball. Not a sideshow because the AL as boring in the early 70's and had to invent a fake way to spice up the game.

[SMC]

Having a pitcher hit is dumb. There shouldn't be automatic outs.

[Jetsfan80]

Let the leagues be different.  The NL has been around several decades longer than the AL, and shouldn't be required to change.  Nor do I think the AL should have to get rid of their precious DH.  This only became an issue for the AL because of the uneven number of teams in each league.  That doesn't mean the NL should have to change over it. 

[Scott Dierking]

Having a pitcher hit is dumb. There shouldn't be automatic outs.

Having a one dimensional hitter is dumb. There shouldn't be a watering down of expectation of an athlete.

The scenario that the author suggested, that there is less strategy, was myopic at best. That was only ONE scenario where his suggestion is that there is not strategy at all. There really is no argument that there are more managerial moves in an NL game.

[Jetsfan80]

Having a one dimensional hitter is dumb. There shouldn't be a watering down of expectation of an athlete.

The scenario that the author suggested, that there is less strategy, was myopic at best. That was only ONE scenario where his suggestion is that there is not strategy at all. There really is no argument that there are more managerial moves in an NL game.

^^^ Truth.  Many NL managers STILL don't particularly know how to handle the double-switch. 

The DH also allows for more recklessness out of pitchers, since they know they can't get thrown at when its necessary.  The same logic is why women can get away with crossing lines you're not supposed to cross.  Because we're not allowed to hit them like we can hit other dudes.  So while tons of pitchers swing a bat like girls, the American League is still more girly. 

But yeah, let's go on thinking the NL is less complex. 

[RutgersJetFan]

AL baseball is boring as ****. No strategy at all. Watching games is mindless. Half the fun of a baseball game is guessing where to put whom, when to do it...etc. The DH turns the game into a Sega game. **** that.

[chirorob]

Having a one dimensional hitter is dumb. There shouldn't be a watering down of expectation of an athlete.

The scenario that the author suggested, that there is less strategy, was myopic at best. That was only ONE scenario where his suggestion is that there is not strategy at all. There really is no argument that there are more managerial moves in an NL game.

I kind of agree with that.   Having a pro baseball player who doesn't own a glove is dumb.

[RutgersJetFan]

I kind of agree with that.   Having a pro baseball player who doesn't own a glove is dumb.

Plus what kind of jabroni wants to live in a world where we don't get to see Bartolo at bat?

[BowlesMovement]

I HATE the DH, HATE it. I really hope the NL does not implement it.

[Scott Dierking]

I HATE the DH, HATE it. I really hope the NL does not implement it.

Its the mlb version of shifting the balance of the game to offense, like the NFL did. 

This rule was invented so that the AL could draw more fans, when its league was very, very weak and had trouble drawing fans. Even the Oakland A's, who were a dynasty could not draw in that era.

Wahhh-Chien Ming Wang can't run the bases. Wahh.

Players get hurt in outfield collisions and diving for balls too. Should we eliminate playing outfield and just designate ears that indicate what base you reach? A hit it here mentality?

So hate the DH.

[Morrissey]

NL fans are smartest people on the planet, why aren't they negotiating middle east peace? If you can understand the double switch, surely you can solve the complexity of that affair.

[Rangers9]

I understand the idea behind the DH. To have MLB hitters in the lineup for every at bat. And not using non professional hitters in MLB games. Ok, it makes absolute sense. But I hope they don't do it. I like it the way it is. 

[JohnJ]

NL ball rules. So much better to watch imo.

 

MLB putting the DH into the NL is akin to what the NFL has done to Pro Football. Leaving the outcome of games in the hands of a select few QB's while everyone else plays patty cake is a joke. If it weren't for my beloved Jets I'd probably bail on the NFL.

 

MLB turned a blind eye to PED's for profits. Adding the NL DH would be a similar error in the name of selling more Offense to the casual fan and watching a bunch of Big Poppy's, and slugs like that, showboating around the bases. **** that

[RutgersJetFan]

If we want to talk about anything it should be abolishing the DH in the AL. The argument that it's more exciting for the fans is asinine. Baseball fans are a sassy bunch, they know their sh*t and will get over it.

[BowlesMovement]

If we want to talk about anything it should be abolishing the DH in the AL. The argument that it's more exciting for the fans is asinine. Baseball fans are a sassy bunch, they know their sh*t and will get over it.

agree

[Scott Dierking]

NL fans are smartest people on the planet, why aren't they negotiating middle east peace? If you can understand the double switch, surely you can solve the complexity of that affair.

And pompous, young Yankee fans, that glom on to a team of success, are just so brilliant.

You wonder why people react so negatively to your schtick? This is a partial reason why.

That and your multiple personalities over at JI that were just so stupid.

So you have that going for you.

[Maxman]

If we want to talk about anything it should be abolishing the DH in the AL. The argument that it's more exciting for the fans is asinine. Baseball fans are a sassy bunch, they know their sh*t and will get over it.

This isn't about what we want to talk about. It is the owners talking that matters.

[Maxman]

And pompous, young Yankee fans, that glom on to a team of success, are just so brilliant.

You wonder why people react so negatively to your schtick? This is a partial reason why.

That and your multiple personalities over at JI that were just so stupid.

So you have that going for you.

People have been reacting negatively to you for years. Doesn't seem to slow you down any.

[Scott Dierking]

People have been reacting negatively to you for years. Doesn't seem to slow you down any.

You're welcome!

 

[RutgersJetFan]

This isn't about what we want to talk about. It is the owners talking that matters.

People unnecessarily voicing their opinions on things they have no influence on is the entire point of the Internet.

[Jetsfan80]

People unnecessarily voicing their opinions on things they have no influence on is the entire point of the Internet.

+ Cat pictures.  Meaning that if the former is not allowed, we should just fill this Yankees thread with cat pictures, right?

[adb280z]

Pitcher A - 2.53 ERA, 1.02 WHIP .000 batting average

Pitcher B -  3.05 ERA, 1.20 WHIP .150 batting average

Which one do you want?

 

 

[Morrissey]

And pompous, young Yankee fans, that glom on to a team of success, are just so brilliant.

You wonder why people react so negatively to your schtick? This is a partial reason why.

That and your multiple personalities over at JI that were just so stupid.

So you have that going for you.

You're perfect in every way.  You're a better baseball fan because you support an NL team that plays "real baseball", and you're a better New York baseball fan, because you haven't had it easy like us Yankee fans, who have been spoiled rotten. You're not contemptuous at all.

 

[Scott Dierking]

Listen here fanboy you are the one that came into this thread, telling everyone how "smart" Mets fan are. 

Just remember where the contempt lies.

[PFSIKH]

Its the mlb version of shifting the balance of the game to offense, like the NFL did. 

This rule was invented so that the AL could draw more fans, when its league was very, very weak and had trouble drawing fans. Even the Oakland A's, who were a dynasty could not draw in that era.

Wahhh-Chien Ming Wang can't run the bases. Wahh.

Players get hurt in outfield collisions and diving for balls too. Should we eliminate playing outfield and just designate ears that indicate what base you reach? A hit it here mentality?

So hate the DH.

I hate it now that PEDs are largely out of the game.  Am I right?

And the NL has so many more managerial moves to make is a tad overblown.  You have a decision every 9th at-bat and 90% of the time that is not going to be in effect until the 3rd time through the order.

 

[adb280z]

On 1/26/2016 at 8:03 PM, JohnJ said:

NL ball rules. So much better to watch imo.

 

MLB putting the DH into the NL is akin to what the NFL has done to Pro Football. Leaving the outcome of games in the hands of a select few QB's while everyone else plays patty cake is a joke. If it weren't for my beloved Jets I'd probably bail on the NFL.

 

MLB turned a blind eye to PED's for profits. Adding the NL DH would be a similar error in the name of selling more Offense to the casual fan and watching a bunch of Big Poppy's, and slugs like that, showboating around the bases. **** that

You don't think the NFL has turned that same blind eye to PEDs?  Most of the league is taking something.

[adb280z]

With all the money paid to pitchers, why have them do something that really isn't important to how they're rated or compensated?  NFL teams don't take their starting QB and make him hold FGs because it's not worth exposing them to injury unnecessarily.  No one cares how a pitcher hits, all that matters is how he hits.

[Scott Dierking]

14 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

I hate it now that PEDs are largely out of the game.  Am I right?

And the NL has so many more managerial moves to make is a tad overblown.  You have a decision every 9th at-bat and 90% of the time that is not going to be in effect until the 3rd time through the order.

 

You oversimplify the proposition.

How you handle the pitchers spot in the order (offense and defense), makes it that you also have to decide how to handle the 8th hitter. And the decisions cascade from there.

Extra inning games in the NL are a puzzle to manage in terms of how you substitute and what you have on your bench. In the AL, it is a softball mentality

[chirorob]

On 1/26/2016 at 1:35 PM, Maxman said:

This isn't about what we want to talk about. It is the owners talking that matters.

Get your damn logic and common sense out of here!

[PFSIKH]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

You oversimplify the proposition.

How you handle the pitchers spot in the order (offense and defense), makes it that you also have to decide how to handle the 8th hitter. And the decisions cascade from there.

Extra inning games in the NL are a puzzle to manage in terms of how you substitute and what you have on your bench. In the AL, it is a softball mentality

And NL purists over dramatize the situation.

Jim Leyland has long said that while managing in the NL requires more decisions, the game largely dictates what moves you are going to make with your pitcher.    

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

And NL purists over dramatize the situation.

Jim Leyland has long said that while managing in the NL requires more decisions, the game largely dictates what moves you are going to make with your pitcher.    

Oh, so there are more decisions to make.

Thanks.

[SMC]

On 1/25/2016 at 8:29 AM, Scott Dierking said:

Having a one dimensional hitter is dumb. There shouldn't be a watering down of expectation of an athlete.

That statement applies more to pitchers in the NL.  They're one dimensional because they can't hit and the expectation of them is watered down by everyone knowing they can't hit.  Thus, your argument makes no sense.

In fact, DHs are better fielders than pitchers are hitters.  That's why the Red Sox had no problems in their 3 WS because Ortiz played 1st base in the NL parks.  He does that now as well.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, SMC said:

That statement applies more to pitchers in the NL.  They're one dimensional because they can't hit and the expectation of them is watered down by everyone knowing they can't hit.  Thus, your argument makes no sense.

In fact, DHs are better fielders than pitchers are hitters.  That's why the Red Sox had no problems in their 3 WS because Ortiz played 1st base in the NL parks.  He does that now as well.

I am pretty sure that pitchers DO hit in the NL, unless they are pinch hit for (strategy). Some may hit better than others, and helps themselves more than others, just like any other position. 

I am also sure that DH players, when they are in the line-up in that spot, do not field. It is hard to field better than someone, when you do not do it.

This are all facts. There is no confusion.

 

[adb280z]

9 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

And NL purists over dramatize the situation.

Jim Leyland has long said that while managing in the NL requires more decisions, the game largely dictates what moves you are going to make with your pitcher.    

The pitch count has taken away much of the strategy that used to exist in the NL game.  Now in a tight game in the 7th or 8th if the pitcher comes up he's getting pulled because of pitch count regardless.   In the 70s or 80s that wouldn't happen.