Have Jets, Maccagnan, Tipped Hand in Wilkerson Negotiations?

[Savage69]

Once you start making outlandish comments in a discussion your points lose a lot of cred.  Look at the pay scales for NT's vs DEs, look at the franchise costs of each.  In the end you Value Harrison a 2 down great NT more than you do Wilkerson, that's fine. 

That's not my point,here's a question for you.. If Mo and his agent were looking for a reasonable deal comparable to other 3-4 DE's and said that to the media that would get Jet fans on board. Yet they don't do that why do you think that is?? Mac is not a cheapskate looking at his signings..

[dbatesman]

That's a massive oversimplification. It's dump an above average DL 

I stopped here.

[Savage69]

When the Jets had the Sack Exchange and Klecko and Gastineau had 40 sacks between them the reason was you couldn't double team them both.. Yes it was a 4-3 D but the more talent you have on the line helps players succeed.. My point has been if you trade Sheldon and let Snacks go Mo will not be as effective except in the mind of Mo's Bro's who think him and Watt are of equal talent..Cam Jordan who came out the same year as Mo and was a higher 1st rd pick makes 11 million a year..

http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

[Beerfish]

That's not my point,here's a question for you.. If Mo and his agent were looking for a reasonable deal comparable to other 3-4 DE's and said that to the media that would get Jet fans on board. Yet they don't do that why do you think that is?? Mac is not a cheapskate looking at his signings..

We have no idea what he wants and the fact that they smartly waited till now (wilk now has a broken leg) is a good thing.  If he wants too much money they will do something with him.  Same with Snacks, if he wants to much or if another team offers him the world we will let him go.  Also what is a reasonable amount vs a team discount?  Wilkerson is a still young very very good player most successful teams 1st priory is to keep the guys you develop into impact players.  In any case this discussion is now going in circles, until some media type reports on what he and Snacks are asking for the picture will remain cloudy.

[Savage69]

We have no idea what he wants and the fact that they smartly waited till now (wilk now has a broken leg) is a good thing.  If he wants too much money they will do something with him.  Same with Snacks, if he wants to much or if another team offers him the world we will let him go.  Also what is a reasonable amount vs a team discount?  Wilkerson is a still young very very good player most successful teams 1st priory is to keep the guys you develop into impact players.  In any case this discussion is now going in circles, until some media type reports on what he and Snacks are asking for the picture will remain cloudy.

One of the reasons Revis went from the Jets to the Buc's,Pats and back to the Jets was money. The only speculation I read in the media was Mo was looking for a Watt type deal.. If that's not true they should correct the record.. Like I said if the Jets dump Sheldon and Snacks and pay Mo what he seems to want he's not going to have the same impact as before.. I guess the coming months leading up to the draft will answer our questions..

[ylekram]

by a show of hands, which would you rather have?

wilkerson,richardson,williams, and some bum nose tackle

or

 richardson,snacks,williams, 7m+ cap space, and most likely 1st or 2nd rounder?

forget the $$ and draft pick. which allignment would produce better results?

cant run a 3-4 without a propper nose tackle. its amazing that people are up in arms about losing one of the better 3-4 de's in the league, with equal talent already on the roster, but are willing to let one of the best nose tackles in the league walk for nothing.

the pro mo crowd state time and time again that you dont let your best players walk, and somehow in their eyes, snacks doesnt fall into that category? snacks is as elite as they come

[CrazyCarl40]

I stopped here.

Defensive ends that average 7 sacks a year aren't elite.

Oh, and Mo had 8 sacks in 2 years without Snacks beside him. In the 3 years Snacks has started: 28. But. You know. Elite.

[varjet]

by a show of hands, which would you rather have?

wilkerson,richardson,williams, and some bumb nose tackle

or

 richardson,snacks,williams, 7m+ cap space, and most likely 1st or 2nd rounder?

forget the $$ and draft pick. which allignment would produce better results?

cant run a 3-4 without a propper nose tackle. its amazing that people are up in arms about losing one of the better 3-4 de's in the league, with equal talent already on the roster, but are willing to let one of the best nose tackles in the league walk for nothing.

the pro mo crowd state time and time again that you dont let your best players walk, and somehow in their eyes, snacks doesnt fall into that category? snacks is as elite as they come

The latter would result in a better defense hypothetically, but for the first 4 games of the season or so Richardson would be suspended, and who knows fills in.  Then in week 5 Richardson comes back rusty and takes some time to get back in real football shape.  He is back to himself by week 8, but by that time the Jets are 2-6 and the season is over.

[AFJF]

Not to interrupt the current conversation, but in terms of how Mac handled this, is it a failure on his part to have given Mo the perfect environment to have a career year and drive up his asking price instead of signing him before the season started?

Thinking this is why a trade would make sense from that aspect...set him up to succeed and drive up the asking price in a trade rather than give the player the chance to drive up his asking price at the negotiating table.

[dbatesman]

Defensive ends that average 7 sacks a year aren't elite.

Oh, and Mo had 8 sacks in 2 years without Snacks beside him. In the 3 years Snacks has started: 28. But. You know. Elite.

Weird that we wasted a pick on Leonard Williams when Douzable and Stephen Bowen would have been just as good playing alongside Snacks.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Regardless of what happens to Wilkerson Snacks is gone in my opinion.  Some totally desperate team that can't stop the run at all will offer him huge money.  The Jets with regret will smartly not match.

Pick up a guy as a last day pick or UDFA, get several years of great production out of him, then let him walk for a better comp pick than it cost you in the first place. It's a pretty basic thing in the abstract but people tend to get retarded once you give him a cute nickname.

[ylekram]

The latter would result in a better defense hypothetically, but for the first 4 games of the season or so Richardson would be suspended, and who knows fills in.  Then in week 5 Richardson comes back rusty and takes some time to get back in real football shape.  He is back to himself by week 8, but by that time the Jets are 2-6 and the season is over.

i dont see richardson getting suspended at all. not over his arrest. i thought they might suspend him for withholding information from the league, but why waite. richardsons court case will end with no more than a glorified speeding ticket. the nfl waiting for richardsons case to conclude makes no sense as he was not charged with the more sirious allegations

[Savage69]

Not to interrupt the current conversation, but in terms of how Mac handled this, is it a failure on his part to have given Mo the perfect environment to have a career year and drive up his asking price instead of signing him before the season started?

Thinking this is why a trade would make sense from that aspect...set him up to succeed and drive up the asking price in a trade rather than give the player the chance to drive up his asking price at the negotiating table.

Very possible had Mo signed a reasonable deal before the season Leonard Williams may have not been the Jets pick at 6..

[AFJF]

Very possible had Mo signed a reasonable deal before the season Leonard Williams may have not been the Jets pick at 6..

Right, but do we know that numbers were even exchanged?  At no point did anyone report that contract negotiations were getting intense.  Just both sides saying publicly that they'd like to get something done.  I guess if/when Mo hits free agency, we'll see if it takes him several months to get a deal because of his outlandish demands (or what any potential acquiring team pays him), or if he signs a market value deal within a few weeks.

I think they'd have taken him either way.  Casserly, who obviously knows him very well, went on NFL network the day before the draft and said (half jokingly) that he'd blast Mac if Williams was on the board and Jets didn't take him since Mac promised to be a BPA GM.

[ylekram]

Very possible had Mo signed a reasonable deal before the season Leonard Williams may have not been the Jets pick at 6..

2015 wasnt about "show me what you got, mo". it was all about williams and to some extent, richardson. a smart gm shops richardson, but trades wilkerson

[Savage69]

Right, but do we know that numbers were even exchanged?  At no point did anyone report that contract negotiations were getting intense.  Just both sides saying publicly that they'd like to get something done.  I guess if/when Mo hits free agency, we'll see if it takes him several months to get a deal because of his outlandish demands (or what any potential acquiring team pays him), or if he signs a market value deal within a few weeks.

Funny that in most contract demands we know about it but not with Mo.. That makes me think when Mac says; we are far apart I smell a Watt type contract as the hold up..

[AFJF]

Funny that in most contract demands we know about it but not with Mo.. That makes me think when Mac says; we are far apart I smell a Watt type contract as the hold up..

Not much point to speculating.  I could say that I bet Mo wanted to sign for $8 mil per year but Mac only wanted to offer $5 mil.  Nobody knows.

[Savage69]

Not much point to speculating.  I could say that I bet Mo wanted to sign for $8 mil per year but Mac only wanted to offer $5 mil.  Nobody knows.

You could say it but that would have the same chance of being true as winning the lottery without a ticket..LOL I think Mac offered a Cam Jordon sized contract and Mo thinks he's Watt..

[AFJF]

You could say it but that would have the same chance of being true as winning the lottery without a ticket..LOL I think Mac offered a Cam Jordon sized contract and Mo thinks he's Watt..

Again, we have no idea.  Even at market value, Mo is going to be expensive, so I'd venture to guess they were asking a couple million over market value with a willingness to come down a bit as most negotiations do.  Mac looked at the position, the depth, the holes on the roster, and balked.

Obviously I'm guessing too and have no idea, but I'd say that make more sense than assuming Mo went in there demanding to be paid like the best player in the NFL.

[AFJF]

You could say it but that would have the same chance of being true as winning the lottery without a ticket..LOL I think Mac offered a Cam Jordon sized contract and Mo thinks he's Watt..

Like I said, we'll find out when Mo gets a deal.  All I know is that agents tend to ask for a bit more money when performance improves as it did for Mo from last season to this season.  Price went up.

[ljr]

Anyone have history on how his agent has been with working deals in the past?

here is what I was able to google:

http://sigsports.com/football/who-we-are/meet-our-team

 

Chad Wiestling

May 2012 - Present

 President of SIG Football
Recently being acquired and named President of SIG Football in May 2012, Chad comes to the company both highly recommended and respected in the industry by his peers with an incredible wealth of football intelligence.
He is a former captain of the University of Maryland football team where he earned his bachelor’s degree.  While attending graduate school, he coached at his alma mater for three NCAA seasons as a graduate assistant. After playing four seasons in the Arena Football League, Chad took his football knowledge to the National Football League where he worked in the front office of two NFL organizations.
Prior to arriving at SIG, Chad was a partner at a very successful sports agency, Integrated Sports Management, which was founded in 1996 with the focus solely on representing professional football players. He has represented players drafted in every round on the NFL draft and currently brings players such as Muhammad Wilkerson (1st Round), Tavon Wilson (2nd round), Julius Jones (2nd Round), Nolan Carroll (5th Round), and Moise Fokou (7th Round) to the company.
Chad is very excited about bringing his football experience to Sports International Group. He is also extremely proud of his pachievements in recruiting and representing top quality men in all of the professional football leagues.

 

 

 

PartnerIntegrated Sports Management2001 – 2012 (11 years)

 

 

 

 

Chad E. Wiestling - President of SIG Football

Recently being acquired and named President of SIG Football in May 2012, Chad comes to the company both highly recommended and respected in the industry by his peers with an incredible wealth of football intelligence.

He is a former captain of the University of Maryland football team where he earned his bachelor’s degree.  While attending graduate school, he coached at his alma mater for three NCAA seasons as a graduate assistant. After playing four seasons in the Arena Football League, Chad took his football knowledge to the National Football League where he worked in the front office of two NFL organizations.

Prior to arriving at SIG, Chad was a partner at a very successful sports agency, Integrated Sports Management, which was founded in 1996 with the focus solely on representing professional football players. He has represented players drafted in every round on the NFL draft and currently brings players such as Muhammad Wilkerson (1st Round), Tavon Wilson (2nd round), Julius Jones (2nd Round), Nolan Carroll (5th Round), and Moise Fokou (7th Round) to the company.

Chad is very excited about bringing his football experience to Sports International Group. He is also extremely proud of his achievements in recruiting and representing top quality men in all of the professional football leagues.

[cant wait]

you could trade wilk down the road if you need to, a good player under contract is still a tradeable asset. the jets cant afford to let him walk for nothing

[cant wait]

Again, we have no idea.  Even at market value, Mo is going to be expensive, so I'd venture to guess they were asking a couple million over market value with a willingness to come down a bit as most negotiations do.  Mac looked at the position, the depth, the holes on the roster, and balked.

Obviously I'm guessing too and have no idea, but I'd say that make more sense than assuming Mo went in there demanding to be paid like the best player in the NFL.

mo wants the mccoy deal and honestly that's probably what the market value is for him right now. 7 years / $95M ($51M guaranteed)

[David Harris]

Nick Mangold is 32 years old, how many above average seasons does he have, maybe 2?  Cut the descending player with zero cap hit.

Cut Mangold. He made 10 mill in 2015 and is due 8.5 in 2016. 

Resign Wilkerson at 12.5 mill/yr.  He made $7 mill in 2015.

Mangold 2015 $10 + Mo 2015 $7 = $17 million.  Mo's projected 2016 salary $12.5 plus a replacement 2nd or 3rd round center is actually a net gain of several million dollars.  I see the choice as Mangold or Mo Wilkerson.  It's an obvious choice IMO. 

I'm not saying Mangold is easily replaced but his age and positional value make this an easy decision IMO.

[cant wait]

Nick Mangold is 32 years old, how many above average seasons does he have, maybe 2?  Cut the descending player with zero cap hit.

Cut Mangold. He made 10 mill in 2015 and is due 8.5 in 2016. 

Resign Wilkerson at 12.5 mill/yr.  He made $7 mill in 2015.

Mangold 2015 $10 + Mo 2015 $7 = $17 million.  Mo's projected 2016 salary $12.5 plus a replacement 2nd or 3rd round center is actually a net gain of several million dollars.  I see the choice as Mangold or Mo Wilkerson.  It's an obvious choice IMO. 

I'm not saying Mangold is easily replaced but his age and positional value make this an easy decision IMO.

the problem is the jets offense falls apart without mangold... I don't think he should be cut but the jets absolutely need to get a swingman OL who can be at least a serviceable backup center

[David Harris]

the problem is the jets offense falls apart without mangold... I don't think he should be cut but the jets absolutely need to get a swingman OL who can be at least a serviceable backup center

Maybe, maybe not.  Wilkerson is arguably the Jets best player.  Mangold may be a linchpin but I think it's better to cut bait a year early rather than a year late.  Don't let Mo out the door to milk 1-2 years out of an above average Center.

Recent draft history has shown you can get by with a plug and play 2nd or 3rd round center.  Nick is a leader and I'd prefer to keep him,  a glue guy, it could mess up team chemistry but still...you don't lose Mo for a 32 yo declining Center.

[cant wait]

Maybe, maybe not.  Wilkerson is arguably the Jets best player.  Mangold may be a linchpin but I think it's better to cut bait a year early rather than a year late.  Don't let Mo out the door to milk 1-2 years out of an above average Center.

Recent draft history has shown you can get by with a plug and play 2nd or 3rd round center.  Nick is a leader and I'd prefer to keep him,  a glue guy, it could mess up team chemistry but still...you don't lose Mo for a 32 yo declining Center.

there's gotta be more expendable guys than mangold though, centers can play fairly well into their 30's so lets not be so hasty to dump the guy that's been a rock since day 1. just off the top of my head, I would much sooner cut cro and your namesake than mangold to keep wilk 

[#27TheDominator]

Nick Mangold is 32 years old, how many above average seasons does he have, maybe 2?  Cut the descending player with zero cap hit.

Cut Mangold. He made 10 mill in 2015 and is due 8.5 in 2016. 

Resign Wilkerson at 12.5 mill/yr.  He made $7 mill in 2015.

Mangold 2015 $10 + Mo 2015 $7 = $17 million.  Mo's projected 2016 salary $12.5 plus a replacement 2nd or 3rd round center is actually a net gain of several million dollars.  I see the choice as Mangold or Mo Wilkerson.  It's an obvious choice IMO. 

I'm not saying Mangold is easily replaced but his age and positional value make this an easy decision IMO.

Mawae played at a high level right until the end.  He was all-pro at 37 and made the pro bowl  at 38.  People were saying that we were smart to get rid of him because he was old, but he played 4 more high level years and he was a guy that front offices didn't want around because he was a union guy/clubhouse lawyer.  He'd have been reporting Mangini after every practice.

[David Harris]

I'm assuming Cro doesn't come back.

id love to keep Mangold and Mo- but it may come down to a choice between the two. 8-10 mill/yr is alotta scratch for a center.  If one guy has to walk out the door, it's Nick.

 

Mawae's talents fell off a cliff in Tennessee- the last 2 years of his career he was a rag doll. He was an athletic pulling center- once he got old he lost all his strengths.  Mangold will probably hold up better.

[section314]

Nick Mangold is 32 years old, how many above average seasons does he have, maybe 2?  Cut the descending player with zero cap hit.

Cut Mangold. He made 10 mill in 2015 and is due 8.5 in 2016. 

Resign Wilkerson at 12.5 mill/yr.  He made $7 mill in 2015.

Mangold 2015 $10 + Mo 2015 $7 = $17 million.  Mo's projected 2016 salary $12.5 plus a replacement 2nd or 3rd round center is actually a net gain of several million dollars.  I see the choice as Mangold or Mo Wilkerson.  It's an obvious choice IMO. 

I'm not saying Mangold is easily replaced but his age and positional value make this an easy decision IMO.

Mangold is the most irreplaceable Jet. This would be disaster. This is an early April fools joke, right?

[Beerfish]

Mangold is only seen as the most irreplaceable jet becasue we have tried to replace him with jags in the past when he has been hurt.  He is important no doubt but not sure if he is irreplaceable.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm assuming Cro doesn't come back.

id love to keep Mangold and Mo- but it may come down to a choice between the two. 8-10 mill/yr is alotta scratch for a center.  If one guy has to walk out the door, it's Nick.

 

Mawae's talents fell off a cliff in Tennessee- the last 2 years of his career he was a rag doll. He was an athletic pulling center- once he got old he lost all his strengths.  Mangold will probably hold up better.

First team all-pro rag doll?

[AFJF]

First team all-pro rag doll?

Exactly...I remember him having  a couple of very good seasons with the Titans after leaving here.

 

[David Harris]

Mangold is the most irreplaceable Jet. This would be disaster. This is an early April fools joke, right?

Take the longview-

It's 2019.  Nick Mangold is 35 years old and washed up-close to retirement.  He exits the league.

Wouldn't you like to have Mo Wilkerson still in his 20's, in his prime, and half way through his contract.

[David Harris]

First team all-pro rag doll?

http://www.nyjetschat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24520