Have Jets, Maccagnan, Tipped Hand in Wilkerson Negotiations?

[David Harris]

[cant wait]

Take the longview-

It's 2019.  Nick Mangold is 35 years old and washed up-close to retirement.  He exits the league.

Wouldn't you like to have Mo Wilkerson still in his 20's, in his prime, and half way through his contract.

id like to have both on the team, and cutting mangold now because he's going to be 35 in 2019 is absurdly oversighted. There's no reason to create a problem at center right now

[David Harris]

id like to have both on the team, and cutting mangold now because he's going to be 35 in 2019 is absurdly oversighted. There's no reason to create a problem at center right now

You're just missing me.

I stated I'd like to keep both.  I've stated Nick is important for all the agreed upon reasons. 

If you have to choose one now, you choose Mo.  Nick is declining.  Mo is ascending.  Mo can be top tier for the next 7 years. 

I hate when people bring up the Pats as some Ivory Tower - but shedding Logan Mankins high salary when he was starting to get old so you can sign your Devin Mcourtey's is EXACTLY what a dispassionate and logical executive should do.

There is a salary cap people.

 

[cant wait]

You're just missing me.

I stated I'd like to keep both.  I've stated Nick is important for all the agreed upon reasons. 

If you have to choose one now, you choose Mo.  Nick is declining.  Mo is ascending.  Mo can be top tier for the next 7 years. 

I hate when people bring up the Pats as some Ivory Tower - but shedding Logan Mankins high salary when he was starting to get old so you can sign your Devin Mcourtey's is EXACTLY what a dispassionate and logical executive should do.

There is a salary cap people.

 

i agree that mo has more value than mangold right now but I think there are other ways to make cap room other than cutting your best OL. as proven this year it's not like the jets have great depth that can step in for him right now, I'd rather keep adding talent at this stage than lose key starters 

[CrazyCarl40]

You're just missing me.

I stated I'd like to keep both.  I've stated Nick is important for all the agreed upon reasons. 

If you have to choose one now, you choose Mo.  Nick is declining.  Mo is ascending.  Mo can be top tier for the next 7 years. 

I hate when people bring up the Pats as some Ivory Tower - but shedding Logan Mankins high salary when he was starting to get old so you can sign your Devin Mcourtey's is EXACTLY what a dispassionate and logical executive should do.

There is a salary cap people.

 

That Pats O Line looked great last weekend. 

The Jets have a replacement for Mo on the roster. They don't for Mangold. That's pretty simple. 

[SenorGato]

That Pats O Line looked great last weekend. 

The Jets have a replacement for Mo on the roster. They don't for Mangold. That's pretty simple. 

The Jets don't really have a replacement for Wilkerson on the roster. They have guys who can do some of what he does, but not all.

Mangold is probably safe, but it's far easier to replace a center than a DL like Wilkerson. For all of Mawae's late career awesomeness, Jonathan Goodwin is the former 2000s Jets C with two SB rings as a starter. 

The Pats' OL having a bad game last week against the best pass rush in the league, by far, is probably not heavily tied to moving on from Mankins after the 2013 season. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

The Jets don't really have a replacement for Wilkerson on the roster. They have guys who can do some of what he does, but not all.

Mangold is probably safe, but it's far easier to replace a center than a DL like Wilkerson. For all of Mawae's late career awesomeness, Jonathan Goodwin is the former 2000s Jets C with two SB rings as a starter. 

The Pats' OL having a bad game last week against the best pass rush in the league, by far, is probably not heavily tied to moving on from Mankins after the 2013 season. 

When Mangold got hurt, the offense suffered immensely. When Wilk got hurt, the defense didn't miss a beat. Just saying.  

[SenorGato]

When Mangold got hurt, the offense suffered immensely. When Wilk got hurt, the defense didn't miss a beat. Just saying.  

Yeah, the offense completely falling apart because the C went down is a pretty good sign that it's a sh*t offense with the C healthy. Remind me - in Mangold's decade at C the Jets have put out how many top 10 offenses? 

BTW: the defense did skip a beat when Wilkerson went down last year. 

[CrazyCarl40]

Yeah, the offense completely falling apart because the C went down is a pretty good sign that it's a sh*t offense with the C healthy. Remind me - in Mangold's decade at C the Jets have put out how many top 10 offenses? 

The Jets had one of their best offenses in history and was the only team to score at least 2 TDs on offense each week. I'm not sure your point about the offense being bad. Nor do I think you have a point that the Jets wouldn't have a top ten defense without Wilkerson. 

[Jet Nut]

Look at his seasons in the game logs in previous years he never put a full season together, in is 10.5 sack year he had something like 7 in the 1st half of the season.  Unless you are 100% sure of a guy don't go paying him until his cheap years are done or almost done.  Most of all these arguments both ways are moot because we have no idea what he was asking for.  If he was asking for a huge deal before last year we may have him signed long term but we ate up a large chunk of change from last years budget, someone would not have been signed.

There may be no big trade market for him but if the answer is to overpay a guy long term becasue we might not be able to trade him that is a mistake. 

 

Depends on your definition of overpaying.

And who is defining it.  The way Jets fans dump on Mo is ridiculous, he's held to a higher light everywhere else.  He a top DL and all our fan base does is whine over and over again that hes not Watt.  People need to get over JJ Watt, hes hands down the best but that doesnt mean a Mo isnt really good 

[SenorGato]

The Jets had one of their best offenses in history and was the only team to score at least 2 TDs on offense each week. I'm not sure your point about the offense being bad. Nor do I think you have a point that the Jets wouldn't have a top ten defense without Wilkerson. 

So then they didn't skip a beat without Mangold? How many ways can you have it here?!?!

The Jets lost Wilkerson for three games last year and the DL fell to middle of the pack against the run and 21st overall according to FO. With him they have never finished below 12th overall and are mostly in the top 5-6. 

Soooo yeah, given the choice I'm keeping the younger, more versatile, and more overall impactful DLman. While he has been the best and most consistent player on top performing defenses, the Jets' All Pro C has been on one decent offense in ten seasons. 

[Raideraholic]

Depends on your definition of overpaying.

And who is defining it.  The way Jets fans dump on Mo is ridiculous, he's held to a higher light everywhere else.  He a top DL and all our fan base does is whine over and over again that hes not Watt.  People need to get over JJ Watt, hes hands down the best but that doesnt mean a Mo isnt really good 

Who cares what the fan base thinks of a player. ( they aren't making the decision on a player).   If your Front office thought so highly of Muhammad Wilkerson than why didn't they take care of the player last year when they had the Cap space.( Kicking the problem down the road). Give m Wilkerson money  to Greedvis , a player on the wrong side of thirty who will never justify that contract.

The only reason there is any debate on keeping Muhammad Wilkerson( one of the Jets best players- don't think any fan would disagree with) is the Jets only have limited amount of funds to work with this year.  All things were equal you don't lose your best player , but the Jets have to take many other variables in the the equation.( Cost to sign himversus cost to sign Snacks, and what effect does that have on your ability to sign your own free agents, and bring in other outside free agents. )

It isn't an easy decision your front office has to make .

[Raideraholic]

So then they didn't skip a beat without Mangold? How many ways can you have it here?!?!

The Jets lost Wilkerson for three games last year and the DL fell to middle of the pack against the run and 21st overall according to FO. With him they have never finished below 12th overall and are mostly in the top 5-6. 

Soooo yeah, given the choice I'm keeping the younger, more versatile, and more overall impactful DLman. While he has been the best and most consistent player on top performing defenses, the Jets' All Pro C has been on one decent offense in ten seasons. 

Listen you can't make generalization about any player on a couple of games.   Who knows it could be as simple you played better / weaker teams in those games they missed.  

Nick Mangold is defintely one of the Jets best Offenselineman, and Muhammad Wilkerson is one of their best defense lineman .    Which player would be a bigger lost?  The Jets defense line is still a strength without Wikerson.( invested heavy in that position) .  The Jets offense line would be in trouble if Mangold was gone.

i think you look for other areas to cut before going after your top players.

[SenorGato]

Listen you can't make generalization about any player on a couple of games.   Who knows it could be as simple you played better / weaker teams in those games they missed.  

Nick Mangold is defintely one of the Jets best Offenselineman, and Muhammad Wilkerson is one of their best defense lineman .    Which player would be a bigger lost?  The Jets defense line is still a strength without Wikerson.( invested heavy in that position) .  The Jets offense line would be in trouble if Mangold was gone.

i think you look for other areas to cut before going after your top players.

The Jets DL takes a massive hit by losing Wilkerson and it's a myth that they'd simply just be able to move on. Once again, one player has been a key to far more successful units than the other, and it isn't the center.

Im not suggesting cut anybody on this one. I'm saying if the Jets had to keep one, the extremely easy choice would be Wilkerson.

[Jet Nut]

Who cares what the fan base thinks of a player. ( they aren't making the decision on a player).   If your Front office thought so highly of Muhammad Wilkerson than why didn't they take care of the player last year when they had the Cap space.( Kicking the problem down the road). Give m Wilkerson money  to Greedvis , a player on the wrong side of thirty who will never justify that contract.

The only reason there is any debate on keeping Muhammad Wilkerson( one of the Jets best players- don't think any fan would disagree with) is the Jets only have limited amount of funds to work with this year.  All things were equal you don't lose your best player , but the Jets have to take many other variables in the the equation.( Cost to sign himversus cost to sign Snacks, and what effect does that have on your ability to sign your own free agents, and bring in other outside free agents. )

It isn't an easy decision your front office has to make .

Who cares what the fanbase thinks?  When the point is other teams, GMs will value th player higher than some fans, it means everything given that was the point of the whole post.

i think we all know what the issues are with signing him,

[SenorGato]

Greedvis? Yuch...

[Raideraholic]

Who cares what the fanbase thinks?  When the point is other teams, GMs will value th player higher than some fans, it means everything given that was the point of the whole post.

i think we all know what the issues are with signing him,

There aren't going to many teams willing to pay Wilkerson contract , and give up draft picks in the process.  ( only takes one) If it was just giving him a contract, there would be a lot teams interested. That isn't the case, as freeagency ( cheaper option in Malik Jackson) and strong defense line draft are going to make it tougher to do a sign a trade with him.   

You might just have to sign him long term , and make drastic cuts in other areas.  Going to be interesting how the Jets decide what they want to do with Wilkerson.

[Jet Nut]

There aren't going to many teams willing to pay Wilkerson contract , and give up draft picks in the process.  ( only takes one) If it was just giving him a contract, there would be a lot teams interested. That isn't the case, as freeagency ( cheaper option in Malik Jackson) and strong defense line draft are going to make it tougher to do a sign a trade with him.   

You might just have to sign him long term , and make drastic cuts in other areas.  Going to be interesting how the Jets decide what they want to do with Wilkerson.

I'm going to bet if hes a FA or offered for trade there will more than enough teams lined up to get Mo. 

What may actually hurt trading him is if Buffalo and Dallas actually cut ties to Williams and Hardy.

[Raideraholic]

I'm going to bet if hes a FA or offered for trade there will more than enough teams lined up to get Mo. 

What may actually hurt trading him is if Buffalo and Dallas actually cut ties to Williams and Hardy.

We will see if that's the case multiple teams interesting in trading for him.    Personally I think that is fantasy talk.( not that many teams are willing to pay his contract, and give up draft picks.

[Jet Nut]

We will see if that's the case multiple teams interesting in trading for him.    Personally I think that is fantasy talk.( not that many teams are willing to pay his contract, and give up draft picks.

Because everything Jets is fantasy talk to you  He's a top 3 3-4 DE, who could easily be a top 4-3 DE too.  He'd have plenty of teams wanting him.  Hes young and disruptive.  Only fans are goofy enough to think teams wont give up money or picks for top players.     

[Raideraholic]

Because everything Jets is fantasy talk to you  He's a top 3 3-4 DE, who could easily be a top 4-3 DE too.  He'd have plenty of teams wanting him.  Hes young and disruptive.  Only fans are goofy enough to think teams wont give up money or picks for top players.     

Silly to argue this point because we will see if the Jets are able to move him in a trade , and what they eventually are able to get back.( that will answer who was eventually right). See Revis situation.   I told you last year that signing was very risky, as CB who are over thirty there skills can slip fast- you called me crazy.   Now a lot of NFL people are jumping on my initial  view point, and don't think it was a great decision to sign him for that cash- ( only going to get worse the next two years as his skills slip even further). If you took care of Muhammad Wilkerson just entering his prime years, instead of wasting it on a former elite CB well past his prime , the Jets wouldn't be in this predicament. 

No doubt Muhammad Wilkerson is a top defenselineman( if he made it to market without a tag-  a lot of teams would be interesting  , but the fact is majority of teams don't want to pay the player a monster contract , and give up high draft choices.( the draft is the lifeline of any organization- the teams that draft well are the team that are going to prosper- much cheaper players than players on their second contract. The teams who think you can spend their way to respectability in Fa, eventually fall short.( the draft is the only way to build long term success- smart Gms know this.  They aren't so fast to throw away draft picks.  

Btw- tell me how many teams that gave up high draft picks + pay big contracts( trades)  didn't end  up regretting that decision. 

[Jet Nut]

Silly to argue this point because we will see if the Jets are able to move him in a trade , and what they eventually are able to get back.( that will answer who was eventually right). See Revis situation.   I told you last year that signing was very risky, as CB who are over thirty there skills can slip fast- you called me crazy.   Now a lot of NFL people are jumping on my initial  view point, and don't think it was a great decision to sign him for that cash- ( only going to get worse the next two years as his skills slip even further). If you took care of Muhammad Wilkerson just entering his prime years, instead of wasting it on a former elite CB well past his prime , the Jets wouldn't be in this predicament. 

No doubt Muhammad Wilkerson is a top defenselineman( if he made it to market without a tag-  a lot of teams would be interesting  , but the fact is majority of teams don't want to pay the player a monster contract , and give up high draft choices.( the draft is the lifeline of any organization- the teams that draft well are the team that are going to prosper- much cheaper players than players on their second contract. The teams who think you can spend their way to respectability in Fa, eventually fall short.( the draft is the only way to build long term success- smart Gms know this.  They aren't so fast to throw away draft picks.  

Btw- tell me how many teams that gave up high draft picks + pay big contracts( trades)  didn't end  up regretting that decision. 

Sure

[Beerfish]

Depends on your definition of overpaying.

And who is defining it.  The way Jets fans dump on Mo is ridiculous, he's held to a higher light everywhere else.  He a top DL and all our fan base does is whine over and over again that hes not Watt.  People need to get over JJ Watt, hes hands down the best but that doesnt mean a Mo isnt really good 

Not one jet fan is complaining that mo is not Watt.  Not one.  The jets fans you see complaining are worried that he wants Watt money.

[section314]

Not one jet fan is complaining that mo is not Watt.  Not one.  The jets fans you see complaining are worried that he wants Watt money.

What would scare me even more if I were the Panther's GM and Keuchly wants Watt $. 

[32EBoozer]

Silly to argue this point because we will see if the Jets are able to move him in a trade , and what they eventually are able to get back.( that will answer who was eventually right). See Revis situation.   I told you last year that signing was very risky, as CB who are over thirty there skills can slip fast- you called me crazy.   Now a lot of NFL people are jumping on my initial  view point, and don't think it was a great decision to sign him for that cash- ( only going to get worse the next two years as his skills slip even further). If you took care of Muhammad Wilkerson just entering his prime years, instead of wasting it on a former elite CB well past his prime , the Jets wouldn't be in this predicament. 

No doubt Muhammad Wilkerson is a top defenselineman( if he made it to market without a tag-  a lot of teams would be interesting  , but the fact is majority of teams don't want to pay the player a monster contract , and give up high draft choices.( the draft is the lifeline of any organization- the teams that draft well are the team that are going to prosper- much cheaper players than players on their second contract. The teams who think you can spend their way to respectability in Fa, eventually fall short.( the draft is the only way to build long term success- smart Gms know this.  They aren't so fast to throw away draft picks.  

Btw- tell me how many teams that gave up high draft picks + pay big contracts( trades)  didn't end  up regretting that decision. 

Raider, there are many teams that have a ton of cap space that needs to be spent per the CBA. Some teams are so far away from building a contender through the draft they will need to supplement with good young talent in FA. Wilkerson is at the top of the list.

IDT Jets will have any shortage of suitors for Mo.... it's just a question of how much MacC feels he's worth and if other GM's agree.

[Jet Nut]

Not one jet fan is complaining that mo is not Watt.  Not one.  The jets fans you see complaining are worried that he wants Watt money.

And given no one is saying he should get that money is the point

[Savage69]

And given no one is saying he should get that money is the point

Mo and his agent may think he does..

[Jet Nut]

Mo and his agent may think he does..

You say this all the time.  Where did Mo and his agent say that?  Flat out, we will take nothing less comments.  Especially by Mo, who give a shlt what an agent says.  

[Savage69]

You say this all the time.  Where did Mo and his agent say that?  Flat out, we will take nothing less comments.  Especially by Mo, who give a shlt what an agent says.  

I said may think he's worth Watt money stop looking to argue all the time.. I could be wrong but if Mo was looking for something in the 11-12 range I think he would have been signed.. JMO

[Jet Nut]

I said may think he's worth Watt money stop looking to argue all the time.. I could be wrong but if Mo was looking for something in the 11-12 range I think he would have been signed.. JMO

looking to argue?  How?   I said no one is saying he should get Watt money and your response was Mo and his agent think so.  

This is not looking to argue all the time.  You made a statement and I asked where you got it since you've said this repeatedly.  

Just because I asked  you a question you don't have to accuse me of looking for an argument.  Something I never came close to doing.  Is this your new standard go to response?  You're running it now.  

[SenorGato]

Wilkerson should get much closer to Watt money than Heyward or Jordan, and the Jets should be really into doing this. 

 It is almost disappointing how underrated Wilkerson is by the fanbase.

[RutgersJetFan]

Greedvis sounds like something you'd name a pet frog.

[Raideraholic]

Raider, there are many teams that have a ton of cap space that needs to be spent per the CBA. Some teams are so far away from building a contender through the draft they will need to supplement with good young talent in FA. Wilkerson is at the top of the list.

IDT Jets will have any shortage of suitors for Mo.... it's just a question of how much MacC feels he's worth and if other GM's agree.

There is a difference just signing young talent in freeagency( only cost team money they have plenty to spend) .    Without a doubt if Muhammad Wilkerson hit freeagent market without a tag, there would be a ton of teams interested. ( might be a bidding war)     Jmo( we will see) but I think it different when it involves picks, and big money to sign player. I can tell you for a fact the Raiders Gm would have no interest in trading for Muhammad Wilkerson.( he values his draft picks that much). 

All it takes is one owner, still it's a risky move for the Jets,  if they can't find a trade partner. Going to be fascinating what happens.

Btw - go look at teams who can fit Wilkerson salary in their cap, how many contending teams that are Wilkerson away from being a playoff team, and tell me what team you think a possibility.

   I can only think of one - the Jaguars .  I know they don't care about how much it cost to sign a player, but I  don't know if they would give up a pick.     Might just be contempt to sign Malik Jackson in freeagency.( would give them the same result without costing a pick) Strong defense line draft makes the possibility of trade that much harder to make.( why paid a lot when you can just draft a cheaper version that you have for four years.

[SenorGato]

There is a difference just signing young talent in freeagency( only cost team money they have plenty to spend) .    Without a doubt if Muhammad Wilkerson hit freeagent market without a tag, there would be a ton of teams interested. ( might be a bidding war)     Jmo( we will see) but I think it different when it involves picks, and big money to sign player. I can tell you for a fact the Raiders Gm would have no interest in trading for Muhammad Wilkerson.( he values his draft picks that much). 

All it takes is one owner, still it's a risky move for the Jets,  if they can't find a trade partner. Going to be fascinating what happens.

As far as trading him...We go through this nonsense every time the Jets produce a young, elite defensive player - Revis and Abraham before Wilkerson - and every time someone has paid up. As with both guys before him, the Jets should be waaaaaay more into keeping him. These are legitimately elite talents and producers at premium positions n their mid-late 20s, the smart franchises keep these players.

[32EBoozer]

There is a difference just signing young talent in freeagency( only cost team money they have plenty to spend) .    Without a doubt if Muhammad Wilkerson hit freeagent market without a tag, there would be a ton of teams interested. ( might be a bidding war)     Jmo( we will see) but I think it different when it involves picks, and big money to sign player. I can tell you for a fact the Raiders Gm would have no interest in trading for Muhammad Wilkerson.( he values his draft picks that much). 

All it takes is one owner, still it's a risky move for the Jets,  if they can't find a trade partner. Going to be fascinating what happens.

Mo is a known top level 3-4 DE..... Draft picks can be a gamble. If you have $70 mil in cap space, you're coming off a 4-12 season and your "D" is giving up an avg. of 28 pts/game and over 400 yards I give up a 1st and sign a proven stud to help stop the bleeding and save my job! 

Remember, GM's only get 5 years if the fans see the improvemnt in the win/loss column.