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When the Patriot Dynasty Ends...


nj meadowlands

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Gronk, Collins, Jones, Butler, Edelman, Solder, Vollmer, Gostokowski, Slater, McCourty, Chung, Ryan, Stork, Ridley, Vereen and Hightower. Note that they draft late in just about every draft. Other than Gronk they have been poor at drafting skilled position players aka playmakers but in terms of other positions they have been strong. 

idk if i'd include edelman on a list of players that is trying to prove the patriots draft poorly. he's a 7th round draft pick who has averaged 86 receptions, 907 yards and 5.6 touchdowns per season for the past 3 seasons. granted his stats are inflated because he catches passes from an all time great qb, but still

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Gronk, Collins, Jones, Butler, Edelman, Solder, Vollmer, Gostokowski, Slater, McCourty, Chung, Ryan, Stork, Ridley, Vereen and Hightower. Note that they draft late in just about every draft. Other than Gronk they have been poor at drafting skilled position players aka playmakers but in terms of other positions they have been strong. 

The jury is still out on Butler. Solder, Vollmer, Slater (special teams player), Chung (jag) and the others listed are just average to poor players. They did well with Edelman in the 7th. Jones, Collins and Gronk were all high picks regardless of where in the first they were picked. 

Take a look at the amount of picks they have had over the years that are not even in the NFL.

The Pats I believe, have had the most amount of picks over the last ten years.

When you have a qb like Brady and win, everyone looks good.

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The jury is still out on Butler. Solder, Vollmer, Slater (special teams player), Chung (jag) and the others listed are just average to poor players. They did well with Edelman in the 7th. Jones, Collins and Gronk were all high picks regardless of where in the first they were picked. 

Take a look at the amount of picks they have had over the years that are not even in the NFL.

The Pats I believe, have had the most amount of picks over the last ten years.

When you have a qb like Brady and win, everyone looks good.

Butler was UFA, Chung is a Jag, Vollmer is nothing special, Slater is a ST nothing more, their best picks have been Gronk Collins Hightower and Jules.  They have missed on every WR drafted in 1st 3 rds,  RB's drafts have also sucked. Cheats are very average when it comes to the draft. 

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The misconception is that its all brady.  Bellichek is the guy who runs the ship.  They will replace brady and roll along just fine.  They did it for 1 season with an absolute scrub in cassel.

I wouldnt be expecting the dynasty to fall anytime soon.  Bellichek will coach for another 10 years. 

I feel like the Matt Cassel year isn't really proof of anything - that year (2008) the AFC East schedule featured the NFCW and AFCW - 2 of the historically terrible divisions.  

AFCW

SD 8-8, DEN 8-8, OAK 5-11, KC 2-14

NFCW

AZ 9-7, SF 7-9, SEA 4-12, STL 2-14

Patriots went 11-5 that year, but they also went 7-1 in games vs these 2 divisions.  For point of reference the dolphins also finished 11-5 and also went 7-1 against these 2 with chaddy cakes at the helm.

That means outside of this incredibly softy schedule pats went 4-4, and 2 of those wins came against BUF who was starting JP Lossman at QB.

When you factor all this into 2008 and also remember this was a patriot team that went 18-1 in the previous season (highly talented team), It's hard to use the Matt Cassel season as a credible example of why Bellichick will simply keep rolling in the post brady era.  My bet is he will retire too - he's a smart man.  If he fails it will tarnish his legacy as people will always say with proof to back it up that he was nothing without brady, if he leaves with tom then it may be questioned, but his legacy as the greatest coach of all time will remain.  Also he isn't exactly a spring chicken, he'll be 64 at the start of next season, and he has been quoted saying he won't be like mary levy and keep going into his 70s.   

 

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The jury is still out on Butler. Solder, Vollmer, Slater (special teams player), Chung (jag) and the others listed are just average to poor players. They did well with Edelman in the 7th. Jones, Collins and Gronk were all high picks regardless of where in the first they were picked. 

Take a look at the amount of picks they have had over the years that are not even in the NFL.

The Pats I believe, have had the most amount of picks over the last ten years.

When you have a qb like Brady and win, everyone looks good.

Isn't Slater a Pro Bowler? For a team picking so low every year in every round they have done OK. They suck at drafting playmakers. Agreed. Giants pretty good there!

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Todd Haley won 10 games with Cassell too.  With a much less potent offense. 

Brady made BB.  BB will retire when Brady does because he knows this as fact. 

BB is smart enough to retire when Brady does unless he really feels confident in Garrapolo or whoever else they draft over the next few years.

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Gronk, Collins, Jones, Butler, Edelman, Solder, Vollmer, Gostokowski, Slater, McCourty, Chung, Ryan, Stork, Ridley, Vereen and Hightower. Note that they draft late in just about every draft. Other than Gronk they have been poor at drafting skilled position players aka playmakers but in terms of other positions they have been strong

Yeah, Bill cannot draft a high wide out to save  his life.  Or a safety.

The jury is still out on Butler. Solder, Vollmer, Slater (special teams player), Chung (jag) and the others listed are just average to poor players. They did well with Edelman in the 7th. Jones, Collins and Gronk were all high picks regardless of where in the first they were picked. 

Take a look at the amount of picks they have had over the years that are not even in the NFL.

The Pats I believe, have had the most amount of picks over the last ten years.

When you have a qb like Brady and win, everyone looks good.

Take the green tinted glasses off.

Collins and Gronk were not first round picks.

Go look at their draft picks on profootball reference.  Yes, there were dry years 2006-08, but they have been good to very good since. 

how long does he really have? there haven't been many quarterbacks who did anything good at 40 years old. look at the list of the top 5....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/440084-favre-from-young-the-top-five-40-year-old-qbs-in-nfl-history

What gEYno said. 

Short of a shoulder injury, his game is not really built on being able to deliver it 20 yards down filed. 

He only threw 60 passes over 20 yards.  He can do that for 3-5 years if he is as maniacal at his diet as he is on his mechanics. 

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Butler was UFA, Chung is a Jag, Vollmer is nothing special, Slater is a ST nothing more, their best picks have been Gronk Collins Hightower and Jules.  They have missed on every WR drafted in 1st 3 rds,  RB's drafts have also sucked. Cheats are very average when it comes to the draft. 

so you agree with me then?

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Yeah, Bill cannot draft a high wide out to save  his life.  Or a safety.

Take the green tinted glasses off.

Collins and Gronk were not first round picks.

Go look at their draft picks on profootball reference.  Yes, there were dry years 2006-08, but they have been good to very good since. 

What gEYno said. 

Short of a shoulder injury, his game is not really built on being able to deliver it 20 yards down filed. 

He only threw 60 passes over 20 yards.  He can do that for 3-5 years if he is as maniacal at his diet as he is on his mechanics. 

without Brady the Pats dont win, period. He makes all the people around him better.

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Isn't Slater a Pro Bowler? For a team picking so low every year in every round they have done OK. They suck at drafting playmakers. Agreed. Giants pretty good there!

slater is a good st player. I wouldnt reference the pro bowl as any barometer of skill.

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what was his record w/ cassel?  

Who cares what he did b4 brady.  He has become the best coach in nfl history.  

They played 2 teams with winning records that year! Plus their defense was still very good. 2008 was a mirage for the Patriots. Jets beat them on Sunday night football in Gillette that year with Favre.

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ends ?  it never began

a dynasty is 4 in a row, the last one I can remember is the islanders

and the pats* cheat so yeah there's that

Only 4 years????

Name another team in the history of the NFL that has totally dominated for 15 straight years.

The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys were NFL bottom-feeders 2-3 years after their Super Bowl wins.

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They have another season after this of being in the hunt for a championship.  Brady is the 2nd best QB of my lifetime (I started watching football in the late 70s).  Outside of Gronk they really don't have all that much in the offensive skills positions.  Their drafting has been mediocre.  They have a brilliant head coach that will keep them somewhat competitive, but in this day and age you need a top tier QB to legitimately compete year in and year out (obviously there are exceptions like Denver this year).

...and as much as I fricken hate this team I find it laughable that people are questioning if they should be considered a dynasty...

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Only 4 years????

 

Name another team in the history of the NFL that has totally dominated for 15 straight years.

 

The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys were NFL bottom-feeders 2-3 years after their Super Bowl wins.

Cheating teams do not count in metrics

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AFC will be wide open.

The only way it remains a monopoly is if Indy's front office suddenly gets a competent GM and coach. In that case, Andrew Luck and the Colts should dominate the AFC. They are young on both sides of the ball. Cincy would be a close second, and maybe Jacksonville not too far behind. Denver will contend with Kubak/Phillips' running a top 5 defense with Osweiler at QB.

Our roster is old as ****, so the next couple of seasons will be massive in determining our long term future. Hopefully they remain committed to building a strong offense.

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see

belicheat stole your bragging rights

that's the best claim you can make !!!  LOL

what a joke of a franchise

Are you aware every single team in the NFL has either lost draft picks or have been have been fined for rule violations?

So according to you, every team is a "joke"?

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see

belicheat stole your bragging rights

that's the best claim you can make !!!  LOL

what a joke of a franchise

Are you aware every single team in the NFL has either lost draft picks or have been have been fined for rule violations?

So according to you, every team is a "joke"?

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see

belicheat stole your bragging rights

that's the best claim you can make !!!  LOL

what a joke of a franchise

Are you aware every single team in the NFL has either lost draft picks or have been have been fined for rule violations?

So according to you, every team is a "joke"?

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Only 4 years????

 

Name another team in the history of the NFL that has totally dominated for 15 straight years.

 

The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys were NFL bottom-feeders 2-3 years after their Super Bowl wins.

I think the 49ers still hold the record for consecutive years with double digit wins @ 16.

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without Brady the Pats dont win, period. He makes all the people around him better.

So the Jets?  ;)

Only 4 years????

Name another team in the history of the NFL that has totally dominated for 15 straight years.

The Steelers, 49ers and Cowboys were NFL bottom-feeders 2-3 years after their Super Bowl wins.

The 49ers are comparable. 

Only one losing season between 1981 - 1998.  The run ended with 16 straight straight 10+ seasons. A mark the Patriots can still achieve.

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So the Jets?  ;)

The 49ers are comparable. 

Only one losing season between 1981 - 1998.  The run ended with 16 straight straight 10+ seasons. A mark the Patriots can still achieve.

there is one little difference tho

http://www.businessinsider.com/espn-report-patriots-spygate-scandal-2015-9

 

Bombshell ESPN report says Patriots' 'Spygate' scandal was way worse than people realized

 

When the NFL came down hard on the New England Patriots over the "Deflategate" scandal, many people mentioned the Patriots' 2007 "Spygate" scandal as one reason for the extensive four-game punishment, which was later overturned.

According to a bombshell report from ESPN's "Outside the Lines," the Spygate scandal — in which the Patriots were caught videotaping opponents' defensive signals — is perhaps the primary reason the NFL tried to nail them for Deflategate.

The report details Spygate as we've never heard it, painting a picture of systematic cheating that went way further and looks way worse for the Patriots than people previously realized.

First, the Patriots had a detailed, efficient system for finding out opponents' plays. ESPN's Don Van Natta Jr. and Seth Wickersham describe a scene in Patriots coach Bill Belichick's office before a season-opener against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers:

"[A backup quarterback named John] Friesz was told that the Patriots had a tape of the Bucs' signals. He was instructed to memorize them, and during the game, to watch Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin and tell [offensive coordinator Charlie] Weis the defensive play, which Weis would relay over the radio headset system to quarterback Drew Bledsoe."

Van Natta and Wickersham report that although the Patriots lost that game, they realized a "schematic" edge over other teams. They "streamlined the system," finding a more efficient way to note the plays and relay the information, cutting out the quarterbacks, with only a few people, including Belichick.

Soon, advanced scouts would be sent to the games of upcoming Patriots' opponents to film the play signals. The scouts would go undercover as media members, with media credentials listed under "Patriots TV" or "Kraft Productions" and were prepared with excuses of what to say they were filming if security asked.

According to Van Natta and Wickersham, "Each video sequence would usually include three shots: the down and distance, the signal, and, as an in-house joke, a tight shot of a cheerleader's top or skirt."

The tapes would then go to a Belichick confidant named Ernie Adams, an "amateur historian of pro football," who would have the tapes edited and match the notes of the play calls and signals to the action on the field.

The Patriots started a library of videotapes from teams all across the league. A former Patriots assistant coach told ESPN "It got out of control."

According to the report, the system grew to the point that the Patriots would add players cut from upcoming opponents to look at Adams' tapes and judge their effectiveness.

But wait, there's more!

The effectiveness of the spying is reportedly debated among former Patriots staffers, some of whom say Adams wasn't good at his job.

Other methods of cheating reportedly include:

  • Sending low-level Patriots employees to sneak into the visiting locker room during pregame warm-ups and steal the play sheet. As Van Natta and Wickersham note, "The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe."
  • Sending employees through the visiting team's hotel to try to swipe playbooks and scouting reports.
  • "Scrambling and jamming" opponent radio headsets to interfere with opponent communication.

Peyton Manning is reportedly paranoid about the Patriots' methods of cheating; he leaves the Patriots' visiting locker room to discuss schemes with coaches in case the room is bugged.

Still, the spying was reportedly the biggest deal. The entire operation came to a head when Eric Mangini, coach of the New York Jets and a former Patriots coach, realized that the Patriots were filming teams. He ordered security to be on alert, and they caught a Patriots employee taping the Jets.

Roger Goodell, then only 18 months into his role as NFL commissioner, fined Belichick $500,000, the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team a first-round pick before investigators ever even went to Foxborough to look for the tapes.

There, investigators found "a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others" with a "library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons."

However, as Van Natta and Wickersham report, "almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room."

The report says the Patriots never told the league how many games they filmed and offered up only eight tapes, and the league never asked.

Goodell was accused by some owners of sweeping the issue under the rug and helping out his close friend, Patriots owner Robert Kraft. Belichick said he had simply misinterpreted a rule prohibiting the taping of other teams' play signals. Goodell reportedly took the stance that any team that cheats in the future will be "dealt with forcefully."

Naturally, in wake of the report, both the NFL and the Patriots have come to their own defense:

 

 

The report paints a picture about why league insists on dragging out Deflategate — it's a "make-up call" for sidestepping the severity of Spygate, if the ESPN report is accurate.

If the details are all true, it looks damning for both sides, but particularly for the Patriots. What initially seemed like a cheap blunder trying to videotape opponents' play signals now looks like an advanced operation meant to give the Patriots a serious advantage.

Read the report here >>

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
they can stomp on the tapes but everybodyknows whats up
 
blaack sawks baby
 
for life
 
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The misconception is that its all brady.  Bellichek is the guy who runs the ship.  They will replace brady and roll along just fine.  They did it for 1 season with an absolute scrub in cassel.

I wouldnt be expecting the dynasty to fall anytime soon.  Bellichek will coach for another 10 years. 

no, they didn't..

they lost 5 more games and missed playoffs against one of the easiest schedules in football (vs one of the hardest the year prior) with essentially the same team besides qb

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Brady can stick around a while.  His game is based almost entirely on short high percentage passes and lobbing it downfield to Gronkowski.  He won't be playing the Denver D each week, he can pretty much stay upright and throw slants to WRs and flares to RBs for a few more years at least.  If Gronk gets hurt again though, I think you'll see a complete absence of anything downfield.

eh, the Wr's those idiots like, short, agile (but slow) white guys doesn't really fit downfield. He was fine throwing downfield when Moss was there

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