Jets are aiming for a QB early - and I think they mean it

[Colgateman]

Are any Jets officials at Paxton's pro day?

 

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Lol buddy you're full of sh*t... You don't like him, that's totally up to you. But you're talking out of your ass.

"Locks on to first read" - you haven't watched sh*t!! That's so completely untrue that makes you sound like an idiot. Nobody has ever criticized him for that.

"Totally inaccurate proday"... LOL his proday started 20 mins ago. GTFO

I've never seen him lock on to a first read, his pocket presence and ability to extend plays is what will make him great

 

[Paradis]

Are any Jets officials at Paxton's pro day?

 

I've never seen him lock on to a first read, his pocket presence and ability to extend plays is what will make him great

 

You bet. The 4 man brass squad is there including the Mac himself

[Paradis]

2. Looked totally inaccurate in pro day? Check

The proday (the one that just happened)...

You've never been so clueless Drdetroit... Sit this one out.

[maury77]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

well the jets have a buttload of people watching paxton today.  i still think they'd need to leapfrog the rams to get him though, not that it's even the best move.  

 

That's the thing. With all this talk about the Jets talking trade with Chicago, I wonder if the Jets are getting an extended look today at Lynch with the thought of trading up past the Rams to select Lynch. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. 

[Augustiniak]

25 minutes ago, maury77 said:

That's the thing. With all this talk about the Jets talking trade with Chicago, I wonder if the Jets are getting an extended look today at Lynch with the thought of trading up past the Rams to select Lynch. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. 

what is reassuring to me is that they know they need a long-term answer at qb, and are not relying on petty.  the question is, even if they trade up (or just get chicago's or another team's #1 pick), is any qb worth taking that high, or is it better (in some sort of semi perfect world) to go BAP and ignore qb early and restock other positions, then bring in fitz again but be in the same predicament a year from now.  being a gm is tricky; if you draft a good qb you generally do not lose your job.  if you draft qbs and they stink you lose.  if you don't draft a qb and don't have one you also lose.  so you basically have to take your swings, calculated swings.

[Paradis]

what is reassuring to me is that they know they need a long-term answer at qb, and are not relying on petty.  the question is, even if they trade up (or just get chicago's or another team's #1 pick), is any qb worth taking that high, or is it better (in some sort of semi perfect world) to go BAP and ignore qb early and restock other positions, then bring in fitz again but be in the same predicament a year from now.  being a gm is tricky; if you draft a good qb you generally do not lose your job.  if you draft qbs and they stink you lose.  if you don't draft a qb and don't have one you also lose.  so you basically have to take your swings, calculated swings.

I think QB is the one position you have to throw the rules out the window. Mike mayock says it best; if you think that guy is your franchise, your qb - then you go get him. Whatever it takes you go get your guy.

...it's all relative, but I agree with the msg.

[BklynJetsFan85]

Lynch has the Arm strength and the mobility but he needs to be coached up and needs to learn to make better reads and not hold onto ball so long in the pocket... he will get murdered in NFL not getting rid of the ball quick enough.

[Scoop24]

13 hours ago, BklynJetsFan85 said:

Lynch has the Arm strength and the mobility but he needs to be coached up and needs to learn to make better reads and not hold onto ball so long in the pocket... he will get murdered in NFL not getting rid of the ball quick enough.

Coaching plays a big part in my young QB development so I don't view this as a knock . I personally think Lynch would great with Gaily coaching him 

[PatsFanTX]

Lol buddy you're full of sh*t... You don't like him, that's totally up to you. But you're talking out of your ass.

"Locks on to first read" - you haven't watched sh*t!! That's so completely untrue that makes you sound like an idiot. Nobody has ever criticized him for that.

"Totally inaccurate proday"... LOL his proday started 20 mins ago. GTFO

Damn, detroit just had his ass handed to him.

[Jet Nut]

On April 5, 2016 at 9:43 AM, CanadaSteve said:

I would agree, but IF the Jets are going to pick a QB in the first two rounds, I think it would be too early for Jones.

The other name that should be considered is Dak Prescott.  He would need a year in the pros, but he has a good arm, and people are raving about his football I.Q. and leadership.  Those are two qualities that nobody seems to be raving about with any of the other Q.B.'s.  I would take that over a cannon arm any day.  Now, could he be had in the 3rd?  Tough call, with Denver being a wildcard there.  With the DUI though, who knows.  But to me, if you like him, you take him in the 2nd round, or move up to get him.

Jones is being talked up as a higher pick than that.  And hes the perfect fit for a Chan designed offense.

Interesting part is they all have issues, there isnt a cant miss QB prospect in the draft and the Jets, if you believe reports, are going to grab one if available.  

[drdetroit]

22 hours ago, maury77 said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the guy that is starting to grow on me is Cardale Jones. I thought he held onto the ball way too long when Ohio State won the championship, but watching Jones last year, I saw a noticeable improvement in his processing speed (even though he was eventually benched). 

Cardale in the 3rd round is the smart move.  The guy has a cannon, can run and run over people like Cam Newton.  I don't like the offense he played in college he will need a couple years to learn an NFL offense.

 

 

cardale in round 3 >>>>>> lynch at 20

[drdetroit]

19 hours ago, Paradis said:

The proday (the one that just happened)...

 

You've never been so clueless Drdetroit... Sit this one out.

Why don't you post his workout in Indianapolis when he couldn't hit a receiver running a fade indoors?

[Paradis]

Why don't you post his workout in Indianapolis when he couldn't hit a receiver running a fade indoors?

Dude, don't even... Theres no bailing out of that one. You threw sh*t against the wall and it didn't stick. Own up to it.

You don't have to like Lynch. He's not flawless... But spare me the made up BS and sandbox talk.

[Beerfish]

Time to list the QB's I do not want.

Connor Cook (Looked great 2 years ago, I was on the Cook bandwagon, last year didn't look remotely the same to me.)

Dak Prescott (Getting overhyped the last few weeks, don't think he is that good.)

Zack Sudfeld (Lower down the list but he was nothing but atrocious in the senior bowl or was it the shrine bowl?)

Christian Hackenburg (Guy seems mentally fragile.)

Kevin Hogan (People talking him up a lot lately, dances way too damn much and his delivery is too long.)

I really don't know what to think about Cardale Jones, he totally seduces you with his arm and his play two years ago with OSU but like my beef with Cook he looked not even close as good last year as the year before and QB's that. 

And those I like at least to some extent.

I like all of the top three guys, Wentz, Goff are the clear top two guys though in what order I don't know.  Lynch imo at the very least is going to be a better version of Osweiler.

I kind of like Jacoby Brissett.

I like Brandon Allen, Qb's that trend upwards in their college time I like.

I would have no problem at all taking a chance on Vernon Adams.  The guy was simply very very impressive in all phases of being a QB in his all star bowl game.

[win4ever]

The more I watch, I really like Cook if he falls to the second round.  However, my bigger issue is roster crunch.  If we sign Fitz, then we have 3 QBs on the roster.  And there is no point in getting rid of Geno, because if Fitz gets hurt, I doubt they want to rely on either Petty or a non- Goff/Wentz QB to handle the veteran team.

[Paradis]

 

[drdetroit]

At least brick leaving stops us from drafting future bust Qb Paxton Lynch.  Now we are locked on Taylor Decker.

[Colgateman]

now that we may take LT in the draft, I am all in on the #flopforDeshaun movement, number 1 pick here we come!

[Powpow]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 9:38 AM, drdetroit said:

Cardale in the 3rd round is the smart move.  The guy has a cannon, can run and run over people like Cam Newton.  I don't like the offense he played in college he will need a couple years to learn an NFL offense.

 

 

cardale in round 3 >>>>>> lynch at 20

This is why Detroit is the hell hole of America.

[drdetroit]

On April 11, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Powpow said:

This is why Detroit is the hell hole of America.

You guys love one read qb's that suck in the NFL 

[Snell41]

On ‎04‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 5:17 PM, win4ever said:

The more I watch, I really like Cook if he falls to the second round.  However, my bigger issue is roster crunch.  If we sign Fitz, then we have 3 QBs on the roster.  And there is no point in getting rid of Geno, because if Fitz gets hurt, I doubt they want to rely on either Petty or a non- Goff/Wentz QB to handle the veteran team.

There is zero chance a team does not draft a potential franchise QB because they're afraid of losing Geno. 

[win4ever]

On 4/12/2016 at 0:10 PM, Snell41 said:

There is zero chance a team does not draft a potential franchise QB because they're afraid of losing Geno. 

The issue is, how do you determine who is a franchise QB?  Wentz or Goff?  Sure, but other teams that can make out the same scouting report will also know that, and pick them way ahead of us.  When we come up to pick, we'll be picking from guys that need some sort of work, and possibly a year to adjust.  Right now, the Jets, to me atleast, seem to be doing the right thing and just waiting on Fitzpatrick.  If a good QB falls to them, it's Pick QB/Geno/Petty.   If it doesn't, resign Fitz.  In either scenario, they are not releasing Geno because his contract is still team friendly, and he can start for one or two games if needed.   

I think right now, our choices are Fitz or Draft QB.  I think the Geno/Petty roster spots stay untouched.  

[Tinstar]

48 minutes ago, win4ever said:

The issue is, how do you determine who is a franchise QB?  Wentz or Goff?  Sure, but other teams that can make out the same scouting report will also know that, and pick them way ahead of us.  When we come up to pick, we'll be picking from guys that need some sort of work, and possibly a year to adjust.  Right now, the Jets, to me atleast, seem to be doing the right thing and just waiting on Fitzpatrick.  If a good QB falls to them, it's Pick QB/Geno/Petty.   If it doesn't, resign Fitz.  In either scenario, they are not releasing Geno because his contract is still team friendly, and he can start for one or two games if needed.   

I think right now, our choices are Fitz or Draft QB.  I think the Geno/Petty roster spots stay untouched.  

I think the Jets are going to camp with 4 QBs and 3 of em we already know .

[Tony The Wiz]

When looking at this draft and seeing the teams ahead of the Jets there are only two teams that I see who could block Lynch coming to the Jets. That will be the Rams and the Bills. I just can't see the Rams doing this since they got the Eagles QB last year and really need a center.  I have the Alabama center going to the Rams. The team that could throw a wrench is the Bills and that would be a typical Rex thing to do. He could take Lynch especially he needs a QB and to spite us.

[win4ever]

34 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I think the Jets are going to camp with 4 QBs and 3 of em we already know .

They very well may take 4 QBs, but I doubt it's going to be Fitz, Geno, Petty, High Draft Pick.  Maybe a late round pick, someone like Cardale Jones?  Sure.  But it doesn't make sense to have 4QBs on the roster, with only one capable starter and 3 projects for what is a veteran team looking to achieve some sort of success.  If we pick a high draft pick, then no Fitz.  If we don't have a high draft pick, then obviously Fitz is back.  In either of these cases, there is no point in releasing Geno, because his contract is still too cheap.  Heck, we hung onto useless Kerley all of last year.

[Snell41]

11 hours ago, win4ever said:

The issue is, how do you determine who is a franchise QB?  Wentz or Goff?  Sure, but other teams that can make out the same scouting report will also know that, and pick them way ahead of us.  When we come up to pick, we'll be picking from guys that need some sort of work, and possibly a year to adjust.  Right now, the Jets, to me atleast, seem to be doing the right thing and just waiting on Fitzpatrick.  If a good QB falls to them, it's Pick QB/Geno/Petty.   If it doesn't, resign Fitz.  In either scenario, they are not releasing Geno because his contract is still team friendly, and he can start for one or two games if needed.   

I think right now, our choices are Fitz or Draft QB.  I think the Geno/Petty roster spots stay untouched.  

Respectfully I disagree.  I think drafting a QB has no bearing on signing Fitz.  I think it's very possible that they go the Giants route when they drafted Eli, in signing Kurt Warner to hold the fort until they truly feel the rookie is ready.  Frankly if they draft a first round guy I think they most certainly would rather Fitz be around as at least competition to start, and if he loses the job to the rookie then he's a hell of a mentor behind him.  In fact if we take a 1st round QB then all the more I would like them to sign Fitz.  I think even though financially it doesn't make sense to cut Geno in this case, team dynamic and roster space makes it a very good possibility.  Signing Fitz and drafting a rookie becomes a win/win situation vs the time they drafted Sanchez.  By having Fitz there's no need to anoint the rookie immediately upon drafting him.  You basically take out insurance on Fitz's performance.  Fitz plays great?  Super, let the rookie take it all in and learn.  Fitz stumbles, put the rookie in.  Fitz loses his job in training camp?  Great, this means the rookie is already flashing his potential and now has a great mentor to lean on. 

 

Alternatively do you really want a rookie out on an island with a guy like Geno as his "mentor"?

[win4ever]

18 hours ago, Tony The Wiz said:

 

[win4ever]

For some reason, I can't quote Snell, so I'll throw an @Snell41

I agree with your theory if Wentz or Goff were available to us.  Then I can see us having someone to mentor them a bit.  However, I think the other QBs in this draft require atleast a year on the sideline, and going into the year with Fitz and two guys that aren't ready doesn't make sense for us.  However, to start out, I also believe the difference between Geno and Fitz isn't THAT great, and if given mandate to pick one considering the financial ramifications, I would pick Geno.  I understand, this starting point might be far off from a lot of others, but it does form the base of my thought process.  

If we pick Lynch/Cook/Hackenberg/Jones/Prescott/Allen etc, then Geno is back for sure IMO.  And Fitz is out.   The current regime traded up to pick Petty, I don't think they'll get rid of him so quick, so he's most likely a lock for the 3rd spot.  He's not going to be good enough to start this year, but is perfectly fine as the 3rd QB.  So that leaves one spot on the roster for Fitz or draft pick.  Even at 8 million, Fitz would cost too much to cut, and I don't know how good of a mentor he is, because none of his backups have really amounted to anything over the years.  It wasn't like having Brunell around did anything for Sanchez either.   

I think the draft is, if a QB drops to a place that the GM likes, we pick him, and Fitz is out.  If BPA drops at a position other than QB, then Fitz is the option to sign, and we go with the triumvirate from last year.  I think it's a solid plan, but for the money and investment, I don't think it's wise to throw Geno or Petty out.  Just for reference, Osweiler had a QBR of 48 last year, while the year before, Geno had a QBR of 44 playing with substandard weapons.  I'm not saying Geno gets a 70 million contract, but I'm sure some team will definitely pick him up for sure.  I just don't see the point of moving on from him for no reason, other than to have Fitz mentor the new QB.

[Paradis]

i dunno what all that means ^^ but i do know that assuming we draft a QB high this year - that we'll probably resign Fitz at some point and carry 4 into TC... Geno and Petty are playing for one spot. If Petty is every going to be more than roster toilet paper, then he ought to be able to put up a fight in TC this year, otherwise adios. 

[Augustiniak]

8 hours ago, Paradis said:

i dunno what all that means ^^ but i do know that assuming we draft a QB high this year - that we'll probably resign Fitz at some point and carry 4 into TC... Geno and Petty are playing for one spot. If Petty is every going to be more than roster toilet paper, then he ought to be able to put up a fight in TC this year, otherwise adios. 

i think fitz returns only if they deal mo.  that's why fitz ain't here yet.  plus if the jets wind up with a qb like cook (yes, cook) they may throw him in and move on.  the only way the team can hope to contend is by grooming someone of their own anyway.  lynch, no, he'll need a redshirt year.

[Snell41]

15 hours ago, win4ever said:

For some reason, I can't quote Snell, so I'll throw an @Snell41

I agree with your theory if Wentz or Goff were available to us.  Then I can see us having someone to mentor them a bit.  However, I think the other QBs in this draft require atleast a year on the sideline, and going into the year with Fitz and two guys that aren't ready doesn't make sense for us.  However, to start out, I also believe the difference between Geno and Fitz isn't THAT great, and if given mandate to pick one considering the financial ramifications, I would pick Geno.  I understand, this starting point might be far off from a lot of others, but it does form the base of my thought process.  

If we pick Lynch/Cook/Hackenberg/Jones/Prescott/Allen etc, then Geno is back for sure IMO.  And Fitz is out.   The current regime traded up to pick Petty, I don't think they'll get rid of him so quick, so he's most likely a lock for the 3rd spot.  He's not going to be good enough to start this year, but is perfectly fine as the 3rd QB.  So that leaves one spot on the roster for Fitz or draft pick.  Even at 8 million, Fitz would cost too much to cut, and I don't know how good of a mentor he is, because none of his backups have really amounted to anything over the years.  It wasn't like having Brunell around did anything for Sanchez either.   

I think the draft is, if a QB drops to a place that the GM likes, we pick him, and Fitz is out.  If BPA drops at a position other than QB, then Fitz is the option to sign, and we go with the triumvirate from last year.  I think it's a solid plan, but for the money and investment, I don't think it's wise to throw Geno or Petty out.  Just for reference, Osweiler had a QBR of 48 last year, while the year before, Geno had a QBR of 44 playing with substandard weapons.  I'm not saying Geno gets a 70 million contract, but I'm sure some team will definitely pick him up for sure.  I just don't see the point of moving on from him for no reason, other than to have Fitz mentor the new QB.

I get your logic and understand your point.  I just personally feel it's the opposite.  I think "potentially" Wentz or Goff, then maybe Fitz is gone and they hand the reigns right to the rookie.  I think if they draft a project, they're probably going to want Fitz to be around to mentor vs Geno.  On the field I agree Fitz and Geno are probably not that far apart.  Off the field, do you really think they want a guy who got punched in the jaw by a teammate for being a dick, kicked off airplanes, late to team meetings, dick pics out in the internet, etc... being the guy that is in the project QB's ear?  I don't.  There's an intrinsic value to Fitz the person in the locker room, and I think Mac and Bowles have a high dollar on that value. High enough to sign him and cut Geno if need be.

[win4ever]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

I get your logic and understand your point.  I just personally feel it's the opposite.  I think "potentially" Wentz or Goff, then maybe Fitz is gone and they hand the reigns right to the rookie.  I think if they draft a project, they're probably going to want Fitz to be around to mentor vs Geno.  On the field I agree Fitz and Geno are probably not that far apart.  Off the field, do you really think they want a guy who got punched in the jaw by a teammate for being a dick, kicked off airplanes, late to team meetings, dick pics out in the internet, etc... being the guy that is in the project QB's ear?  I don't.  There's an intrinsic value to Fitz the person in the locker room, and I think Mac and Bowles have a high dollar on that value. High enough to sign him and cut Geno if need be.

I don't know if I really want Fitz to be a mentor though.  I mean, he's smart in terms of academics, but he never struck me as this cerebral football guy that saw things others didn't.  He had high INT numbers throughout his career, and no young player that played with him really improved.  I would think the coaching staff would do a better job to instill knowledge within a prospect.  There are guys that I think would make great mentors, such as Peyton Manning, not because of his physical abilities, but pre-snap reads, helping a QB understand how to read defenses.  I'm not sure, Fitz really does any of that.  And in theory, this should also mean that after a year under Fitz's guidance, Geno Smith should have developed himself.  

The Jets have enough space to sign Fitz now, so I think the hangup is the QB class.  If we get one that we like, I think Fitz's days here are numbered.   

[Snell41]

5 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't know if I really want Fitz to be a mentor though.  I mean, he's smart in terms of academics, but he never struck me as this cerebral football guy that saw things others didn't.  He had high INT numbers throughout his career, and no young player that played with him really improved.  I would think the coaching staff would do a better job to instill knowledge within a prospect.  There are guys that I think would make great mentors, such as Peyton Manning, not because of his physical abilities, but pre-snap reads, helping a QB understand how to read defenses.  I'm not sure, Fitz really does any of that.  And in theory, this should also mean that after a year under Fitz's guidance, Geno Smith should have developed himself.  

The Jets have enough space to sign Fitz now, so I think the hangup is the QB class.  If we get one that we like, I think Fitz's days here are numbered.   

Yes, but I always attributed a lot of his INT's to his mind seeing the play, and his physical limitations causing the pick.  His accuracy is suspect and his armstength is piss poor.  A lot of times he'd see the play develop, make the right read, then throw a wobbler that would get there late and get picked.  I only really recall a handful of INT's at best where it was just plain the wrong read.  And even then he generally knows why it was wrong and can analyze the tape to understand the mistake.  I don't see that in Geno at all.  Geno at times seems to have no idea what's going on out there before, during, and after the play which is a shame because he does have the physical tools. 

 

As an aside it's refreshing to have a difference of opnion while still having adult respectable debates lol!

[win4ever]

31 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Yes, but I always attributed a lot of his INT's to his mind seeing the play, and his physical limitations causing the pick.  His accuracy is suspect and his armstength is piss poor.  A lot of times he'd see the play develop, make the right read, then throw a wobbler that would get there late and get picked.  I only really recall a handful of INT's at best where it was just plain the wrong read.  And even then he generally knows why it was wrong and can analyze the tape to understand the mistake.  I don't see that in Geno at all.  Geno at times seems to have no idea what's going on out there before, during, and after the play which is a shame because he does have the physical tools. 

 

As an aside it's refreshing to have a difference of opnion while still having adult respectable debates lol!

I think mentally on the football field, in terms of deciphering in play action, they are very similar.  Fitz is better at pre-snap reads, especially figuring out where a blitz is coming from.  In terms of play, Geno suffers from over-confidence much like Fitz and tries to make plays that just aren't there.  I thought the biggest issues with Geno were two-fold.  One, he has a major issue seeing the underneath defender drop back.  This is probably the biggest issue coming from one read offenses, because the spread system is trying it's hardest to eliminate the possibility that a defender can drop back into coverage and still be in position for an INT.  The spreading out of the defense horizontally makes this much harder, without hinting at it pre-snap (wide d-line stance for instance close to a slot WR) so I think the spread system from last year should have helped him.  Second, he made far too many linear throws, which you see often in college, because the WR is open and therefore the throw just needs to get from Point A to B as fast as you can.  There weren't that many throws with touch on them.  I thought he corrected this issue in the Miami game, his last start, and it was such an outlier for him, I wondered if he was actually injured.  

To recall a baseball reference, you always hear about prospects and how they haven't faced failure.  I hear teams go, it's good he's struggled, shows how much he adjusts.  I don't think Geno struggled enough in college, was the star on campus, and he got a complex that he can make up for mistakes by pushing it, which in the end resulted in even more mistakes.  If Geno could figure out how to put touch on his passes, I think he'd be much better.

Long story short, I think Geno would have performed similarly to Fitz given the weapons and systems upgrade.  Neither are going to be here after this year, IMO.  

Thanks, it's nice to talk about something without all the fighting, lol.  

[Snell41]

10 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I think mentally on the football field, in terms of deciphering in play action, they are very similar.  Fitz is better at pre-snap reads, especially figuring out where a blitz is coming from.  In terms of play, Geno suffers from over-confidence much like Fitz and tries to make plays that just aren't there.  I thought the biggest issues with Geno were two-fold.  One, he has a major issue seeing the underneath defender drop back.  This is probably the biggest issue coming from one read offenses, because the spread system is trying it's hardest to eliminate the possibility that a defender can drop back into coverage and still be in position for an INT.  The spreading out of the defense horizontally makes this much harder, without hinting at it pre-snap (wide d-line stance for instance close to a slot WR) so I think the spread system from last year should have helped him.  Second, he made far too many linear throws, which you see often in college, because the WR is open and therefore the throw just needs to get from Point A to B as fast as you can.  There weren't that many throws with touch on them.  I thought he corrected this issue in the Miami game, his last start, and it was such an outlier for him, I wondered if he was actually injured.  

To recall a baseball reference, you always hear about prospects and how they haven't faced failure.  I hear teams go, it's good he's struggled, shows how much he adjusts.  I don't think Geno struggled enough in college, was the star on campus, and he got a complex that he can make up for mistakes by pushing it, which in the end resulted in even more mistakes.  If Geno could figure out how to put touch on his passes, I think he'd be much better.

Long story short, I think Geno would have performed similarly to Fitz given the weapons and systems upgrade.  Neither are going to be here after this year, IMO.  

Thanks, it's nice to talk about something without all the fighting, lol.  

That's really great analysis, and it makes a lot of sense.  I totally agree, Fitz or Geno on the field doesn't really make much of a difference.  I don't see Geno having the season that Fitz did last year, though I also don't see Fitz ever duplicating it either.  My stance was purely on their effect on said young QB.  I do feel Fitz brings a ton more to the table in regards to mentoring.