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Report: Raiders Interested in Wilkerson


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25 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The 1 pro bowl wonder is the best player on the team?? The Jets had winning teams in 09-10 and a better D then the Jets have now who gave up 5 points a game less then this years D.. The stars of this years 10-6 record was the offense with the addition of Fitz and more importantly Brandon Marshall that set Jet offense records.. 12 sacks isn't even close to a Jet record..

Lol, Any mediocre QB could of done what Trashbag did this year. Wilkerson is by far the most important and best Jet.

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1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

I watched the NFL award show last night and besides Watt picking up his 3rd DPOTY award the only Jet mentioned was Leonard Williams as a D rookie candidate.. I was waiting for the fast track to the HOF award and was disappointed that award doesn't exist.. No Mo bad show..B)

What do those voters know anyway?  Their votes are all based on opinion, not facts.  Gato has exclusive command of facts.... er... factual opinions......  er....  ok ok...  opinions that are claimed to be "facts".  never mind. 

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4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I watched the NFL award show last night and besides Watt picking up his 3rd DPOTY award the only Jet mentioned was Leonard Williams as a D rookie candidate.. I was waiting for the fast track to the HOF award and was disappointed that award doesn't exist.. No Mo bad show..B)

To think he couldn't take DPOY over Watt! That guy making the Watt < Wilkerson argument again is going to have some pie in his face! Oooooh, and now it's the fact track! Boy you sure are good at taking down what people say! 

Anyway, with no Pro Bowl nod, not getting nominated for an ESPY is pretty much going to be the nail in the coffin. 

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18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

What do those voters know anyway?  Their votes are all based on opinion, not facts.  Gato has exclusive command of facts.... er... factual opinions......  er....  ok ok...  opinions that are claimed to be "facts".  never mind. 

Hey, you made a joke on the last page but it was a little high brow - even with the notes and all to explain it. Could you break it down a little more please?

BTW: I get a kick out of your arguments being so gar-bahge in your own eyes that you need to latch on the coattails of a marginal one.

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3 hours ago, Larz said:

I thought you were making the case he is a better player than mo based on pff grades including pressures. 

I love both players, and I want both players

if I have to choose between the 2 for cap reasons, I keep mo because he can stop the run and rush the passer, and snacks is a run stuffer who comes off the field on 3rd down

I would tag mo and go from there

We have no idea why a deal hasn't been done, maybe mo is asking for more than watt, who knows

 

No. Mo is definitely the better player. Snacks may be more important to the defense and less replaceable than Mo. I think Leonard Williams is ready to take over for Mo without missing too much. Especially if they can turn Mo into an edge rusher. I want them both back as well but I don't think it's fiscally feasible. 

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14 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Hey, you made a joke on the last page but it was a little high brow - even with the notes and all to explain it. Could you break it down a little more please?

BTW: I get a kick out of your arguments being so gar-bahge in your own eyes that you need to latch on the coattails of a marginal one.

what a reach!  nice try.  Oh wait.. is "nice try" just another opinion?  

You so silly Gato Man.

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10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Snacks may be more important to the defense and less replaceable than Mo. 

Yeah, no one who barely stays on the field 50% of the time is less replaceable and more important to a team than their best player. That his whole game is built around stopping the run is the nail in the coffin.

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Just now, SenorGato said:

I don't get it, can you offer a really long winded explanation? This is really tough material you're putting out.

There is nothing more of a reach than your opinion that Mo is on a HOF track.  Still waiting for the facts to back up that assertion.  

But there are none ot be found in this thread.  Long winded enough, Gato Man?

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6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

There is nothing more of a reach than your opinion that Mo is on a HOF track.  Still waiting for the facts to back up that assertion.  

But there are none ot be found in this thread.  Long winded enough, Gato Man?

Well, besides your easily forgotten opinions, but sure it's a long shot at this stage (which =/= not on a track, as a heads up). Feel free to read the many things said over the week and the many links provided - I believe they're at the beginning of this thread actually, many of the same links provided in the other Wilkerson thread this week. Like with your opinions, simply taking the short amount of time it would take to look for what's already been provided would show you how wrong your opinions are. 

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Just now, SenorGato said:

Well, besides your easily forgotten opinions, but sure it's a long shot at this stage (which =/= not on a track, as a heads up). Feel free to read the many things said over the week and the many links provided - I believe they're at the beginning of this thread actually. Like with your opinions, simply taking the short amount of time it would take to look for what's already been provided would show you how wrong your opinions are. 

you provided no facts, only your own opinions.   Let's face it.  All you are saying here is that your opinion is better than everyone else's.   Pretending to have backed up your own opinions with facts is not working.  You offered none.  So you are of the opinion that Mo is on a trajectory that is HOF bound. You offered no facts to support it.  Others are of the opinion he is not.  

 Your opinion, which is all anyone has in this thread,  has precisely the same value as anyone else's on this issue.   Leave it at that, Gato.

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18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

you provided no facts, only your own opinions.   Let's face it.  All you are saying here is that your opinion is better than everyone else's.   Pretending to have backed up your own opinions with facts is not working.  You offered none.  So you are of the opinion that Mo is on a trajectory that is HOF bound. You offered no facts to support it.  Others are of the opinion he is not.  

 Your opinion, which is all anyone has in this thread,  has precisely the same value as anyone else's on this issue.   Leave it at that, Gato.

Soooooo, no, you won't take the couple minutes it would take to go find stuff that was provided at least twice? I'm not surprised. You stay caught up in imagining your imaginings are right because your imaginings are shared by some other message board posters. Considering you were/are clearly very confused as to what a fact actually is very recently in this thread, your opinion that you haven't seen any isn't a thing to me. Feel free to insist otherwise, that is what you've been good for, but that won't change anything. If you want to take the minutes it would take to find the multiple links I've offered across two threads, instead of hoping I settle on believing your opinion matters in all this after yet another bumbling post, then feel free. 

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40 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, no one who barely stays on the field 50% of the time is less replaceable and more important to a team than their best player. That his whole game is built around stopping the run is the nail in the coffin.

Wasn't talking to you, but since you like to interject your opinion, there are more solid DEs than there are NTs. That's a fact. Harrison is one of the best if not the best in the league and he's not easily replaced based on the roster currently and based on other positions that need an upgrade. 

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18 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Soooooo, no, you won't take the couple minutes it would take to go find stuff that was provided at least twice? I'm not surprised. You stay caught up in imagining your imaginings are right because your imaginings are shared by some other message board posters. Considering you were/are clearly very confused as to what a fact actually is very recently in this thread, your opinion that you haven't seen any isn't a thing to me. Feel free to insist otherwise, that is what you've been good for, but that won't change anything. If you want to take the minutes it would take to find the multiple links I've offered across two threads, instead of hoping I settle on believing your opinion matters in all this after yet another bumbling post, then feel free. 

I've looked at your posts/links.  None validate the HOF path you claim.  They just provide fodder for you to formulate and express your opinion that Mo is so great and on a HOF track..  Opinions, nothing more.  Just like everyone else.  If you are claiming you provided "FACTS", then you are seriously delusional and not of sound mind. 

 

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20 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Wasn't talking to you, but since you like to interject your opinion, there are more solid DEs than there are NTs. That's a fact. Harrison is one of the best if not the best in the league and he's not easily replaced based on the roster currently and based on other positions that need an upgrade. 

- You're on a message board. Welcome to what happens on a message board.

- There are more DEs that NTs because there are two DE spots on every roster - it's literally called defensive end for EACH end of the line. As with all the facts you manage to bring in, it's a simple one that is irrelevant to the value of each players. A starting DE, one that plays literally every position on the DL in either front, is much more important and harder to replace than a two down run stuffer. This is basic, that you can't grasp it is no one's fault but your own. That's not even touching that you're starting off a liar anyway - as Larz pointed out you said Wilkerson wasn't even close and that Harrison was better in many ways.

- Harrison is easily replaced, the team does it almost half the time with him on the roster as it is. They're not giving a player who barely plays more than half the snaps a giant raise and a big contract to do one out dated thing really well that everyone else on the line does anyway.

19 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I've looked at your posts/links.  None validate the HOF path you claim.  They just provide fodder for you to formulate and express your opinion that Mo is so great and on a HOF track..  Opinions, nothing more.  Just like everyone else.  If you are claiming you provided "FACTS", then you are seriously delusional and not of sound mind. 

 

Boy, you really tore those apart. For a guy who demonstrated he didn't even know what a fact was today, let alone how to find one to support his case, why do you so insist on me taking your opinion seriously? I mean literally you've offered nothing, and you had to piggy back onto another guy to even get the big "1 Pro Bowl" fact down. I mean look at you - a guy who posted this just today:

Quote

Gato wants facts.  Facts that show Mo disappears for long streaks in most games

is calling me delusional and not sound of mind. You're clearly an idiot with nothing of substance to offer/say, so why keep doing this to yourself?

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Quote

Boy, you really tore those apart. For a guy who demonstrated he didn't even know what a fact was today, let alone how to find one to support his case, why do you so insist on me taking your opinion seriously? I mean literally you've offered nothing, and you had to piggy back onto another guy to even get the big "1 Pro Bowl" fact down. I mean look at you - a guy who posted this just today:

Quote

 

is calling me delusional and not sound of mind. I mean, you're clearly an idiot with nothing of substance to offer, so why keep doing this to yourself?

again, you've posted nothing but your own opinion. No facts.  One pro bowl.  LOL.  That's not HOF track dude.  You falsely claim you provided facts and then criticize others who you allege didn't.  Maybe you should change your screen name to Senor Hypocrite.  

All this adds up to:  You made a ridiculous claim based on your opinion. You were criticized for it by most in this thread.  You desperately rely on the falsehood that you presented some sort of factual support for the claim.  You criticize everyone else for not providing facts that he is not HOF bound.  

Yawn.

Go ahead and get in your last word, since you always must do so little one.  Grow up.

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6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

again, you've posted nothing but your own opinion. No facts.  One pro bowl.  LOL.  That's not HOF track dude.  You falseley claim you provided facts and then criticize others who you claim don't.  You should change your screen name to Senor Hypocrite.

LOLZ this guy can't even keep your story straight. So you just read....scanned, if that....half a dozen+ links....and the best you still have is to insist I'm the guy riding on my own opinion? LOLZ, what a hack. You should change your name to Dumbcat LOLZ.

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Just now, SenorGato said:

LOLZ this guy can't even keep your story straight. So you just read....scanned, if that....half a dozen+ links....and the best you still have is to insist I'm the guy riding on my own opinion? LOLZ, what a hack. You should change your name to Dumbcat LOLZ.

struck a nerve,  Senor Hypocrite?  

Fact or opinion?  

 

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15 minutes ago, Dcat said:

struck a nerve,  Senor Hypocrite?  

Fact or opinion?  

LOLZ a cornball thing like Senor Hypocrite isn't going to bother me. What has struck a nerve is how willfully dumb you are, but in a pitying kind of way at this point. Still confused at the difference between fact and opinion? You would be, but maybe that's why you should give yourself a rest, take a step back, breathe, and realize you haven't offered an ounce of substance in the conversation. You got multiple links that you just whined and whined about not having, and offer no legitimate feedback or criticism or anything but your usual nonsense opinion that suggests you maybe scanned one.

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39 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Senor H-

Nor have you.  None.  You sir, are a major hypocrite.  Thus the nickname.  It fits. 

Dumbcat, yes, I have. That you choose to ignore it is on your own willingness to be dumb, please don't try to pass the blame anywhere else but yourself. You cried about not getting links, you got the links, and the best rebuttal you had was a sentence repeating your same inane opinion. For Jah's sake, you still don't even know the difference between my opinion, what you read from people who get/got (RIP Grantland) paid to write intelligently and critically about football, fact, and opinion in general. At some point you need to realize that you're just being petulant. I understand why, it's all you've got, but it's really dumb.

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8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Dumbcat, yes, I have. That you choose to ignore it is on your own willingness to be dumb, please don't try to pass the blame anywhere else but yourself. You cried about not getting links, you got the links, and the best rebuttal you had was a sentence repeating your same inane opinion. For Jah's sake, you still don't even know the difference between my opinion, what you read from people who get/got (RIP Grantland) paid to write intelligently and critically about football, fact, and opinion in general. At some point you need to realize that it's you, ya dolt. 

 

 

Senor H,  the links not only prove nothing but don't even support your opinion that Mo is on a HOF trajectory.  How you envision that these provide facts to support your opinion is remarkable.  Sorry, but you are wrong about Mo, unfortunately.  Hope he remains a Jet, but if the Jets felt the same way about him as you do, he would probably have been signed already the way many others who truly are on a HOF trajectory have been.  I fear he is a goner.  But hope I am wrong about that.  Good luck to you Senor H.  Hope Mo works out the way you want.  And if you ever get those facts to back up your exaggerated opinion, let us know.

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30 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Senor H,  the links not only prove nothing but don't even support your opinion that Mo is on a HOF trajectory.How you envision that these provide facts to support your opinion is remarkable.  Sorry, but you are wrong about Mo, unfortunately.  Hope he remains a Jet, but if the Jets felt the same way about him as you do, he would probably have been signed already the way many others who truly are on a HOF trajectory have been.  I fear he is a goner.  But hope I am wrong about that.  Good luck to you Senor H.  Hope Mo works out the way you want.  And if you ever get those facts to back up your exaggerated opinion, let us know.

Oh look, another substanceless post that opens with more unsupported opinion and plows on through with more and more and more opinion. Who could have seen that coming?  I guess it must be a point of pride for you to be petulant and dumb, you seem reeeeeeeally into it. If you need further support of my opinion, feel free to look up the other set of links you won't read or be able to competently respond to.

When you can put a competent argument together that goes beyond borrowing herp derp 1 Pro Bowlz and restating your tired and unfounded opinion, feel free. I won't hold my breath of course, but don't feel shy if you can muster up some substance. I understand that this, legitimately, might be the best you have to offer. Your fear is misplaced, Wilkerson will be a Jet next year and probably long beyond that thanks to an extremely high level of performance that, yes, has him on a HOF track.

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Oh look, another substanceless post that opens with more unsupported opinion and plows on through with more and more and more opinion. Who could have seen that coming?  I guess it must be a point of pride for you to be petulant and dumb, you seem reeeeeeeally into it. If you need further support of my opinion, feel free to look up the other set of links you won't read or be able to competently respond to.

When you can put a competent argument together that goes beyond borrowing herp derp 1 Pro Bowlz and restating your tired and unfounded opinion, feel free. I won't hold my breath of course, but don't feel shy if you can muster up some substance. I understand that this, legitimately, might be the best you have to offer. Your fear is misplaced, Wilkerson will be a Jet next year and probably long beyond that thanks to an extremely high level of performance that, yes, has him on a HOF track.

One only needs a competent argument to refute a competent argument.  Since yours is not and is merely opinion and conjecture, it has little to no merit in the first place.  Look at all the people who have aligned with your prediction that Mo is on track for HOF.  Speaks volumes.  Your arguments are merely opinions without facts.  Your links add more opinion to your own but nothing to demonstrate your claim that Mo is HOF destined.  Your defense of your stance in this thread is so sadly feeble, pathetic and overly redundant that basically you are grasping at straws to defend your silly position, referring to imaginary "facts" in other threads that provide no facts at all.  Otherwise you'd post them to prove your point.  But you can't, as is patently obvious.

I do hope you are right that Mo is a Jet next season.  We agree on that.  Sadly, I doubt it happens, but I will stand up and applaud if it does.

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3 hours ago, Dcat said:

One only needs a competent argument to refute a competent argument.  Since yours is not and is merely opinion and conjecture, it has little to no merit in the first place.  Look at all the people who have aligned with your prediction that Mo is on track for HOF.  Speaks volumes.  Your arguments are merely opinions without facts.  Your links add more opinion to your own but nothing to demonstrate your claim that Mo is HOF destined.  Your defense of your stance in this thread is so sadly feeble, pathetic and overly redundant that basically you are grasping at straws to defend your silly position, referring to imaginary "facts" in other threads that provide no facts at all.  Otherwise you'd post them to prove your point.  But you can't, as is patently obvious.

I do hope you are right that Mo is a Jet next season.  We agree on that.  Sadly, I doubt it happens, but I will stand up and applaud if it does.

Your doubt, like your opinions on the matter, will eventually prove to be unfounded and willfully misguided.. Funny enough, this is true no matter how matter how many Internet message board posters insist otherwise based on stuff and things like gutseyefeel while dismissing anything that disagrees with gutseyefeel.

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8 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Oh, OK. I mean if you say so and all. It's pure coincidence that Wilkerson missing almost 20% of the season and the D had its worst season in forever with basically the same personnel from the year before. That's the only explanation cause Richardson had 8 sacks so it's not like they skipped a beat here, but also they did skip a beat, Richardson both isn't and is better, and stuff. Am I covered enough? 

No, the D had its worst season in forever the year before because they trotted out one of the worst secondaries you will ever see.  They were starting an UDFA at one starting CB position and a college LB at the other.  

Also, Richardson's first two years were better than Wilkerson's.  The suspension and playing out of position in his third year stunted his growth.

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23 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

No, the D had its worst season in forever the year before because they trotted out one of the worst secondaries you will ever see.  They were starting an UDFA at one starting CB position and a college LB at the other.  

Also, Richardson's first two years were better than Wilkerson's.  The suspension and playing out of position in his third year stunted his growth.

- Also because they were missing their best player on the DL for nearly 1/5 of the season.

- Richardson got the gift of playing with a Wilkerson level talent right off the bat across from him. Wilkerson started off with two guys on their last legs in the league, was instantly the best player on the DL, and then didn't cost himself and the team time by getting suspended because he got depwessed during the offseason. Playing out of position last year has a lot to do with the Jets having better players to play on the DL and its Richardson's own fault his supposed growth got stunted (allegedly).

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13 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

If we don't have a real nose tackle our defense will look very similar to that soft POS unit we had in 2006-2007.

Probably not, and you don't need to pay top dollar to a guy who is off the field nearly half the time to make sure that doesn't happen. I'm liking Haloti Ngata as the next high end veteran the Jets bring in for cheap to play a limited role in the tradition of Tomlinson, Pryce, Taylor, and Reed.

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20 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Probably not, and you don't need to pay top dollar to a guy who is off the field nearly half the time to make sure that doesn't happen. I'm liking Haloti Ngata as the next high end veteran the Jets bring in for cheap to play a limited role in the tradition of Tomlinson, Pryce, Taylor, and Reed.

We have only $10 mil in cap room and you want to pay $17 mil to Wilk next season BEFORE finding our next NT. And we're not cutting Brick and Mangold.

 

The 3-4 defense is a waste of time without a real NT

 

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2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

We have only $10 mil in cap room and you want to pay $17 mil to Wilk next season BEFORE finding our next NT.

The 3-4 defense is a waste of time without a real NT

 

- This is the NFL. Worrying about cap space when you're already under on SB Sunday is a little naive.

- Amazing how that price continues to climb because stuff and things.

- Luckily guys who can occupy space and help stop the run for two downs aren't so hard to find or expensive to sign.

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Just for fun...Here are names that pop up for PFBReference's sim scores on Wilkerson's page:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilkMu00.htm#sim_scores::none

Richard Seymour

Michael Strahan

Charles Haley

Lee Roy Selmon

Haloti Ngata

pre-injury Tommie Harris

Joe Greene

Trevor Pryce

Jason Taylor

John Abraham

Julius Peppers

Before you mention roles - the site acknowledges that and sim scores are meant to reflect careers of similar quality and length. I know, I know...most EYES and GUTS and FEEL say otherwise 'n sh*t, but yeah....yeah....I have to say that it's really weird that back-to-back I have to convince Jets fans that Revis and Wilkerson are elite talents worth keeping around at prices that seem dramatic but really aren't within the dynamics of the game today. By that I mean the cap has and projects to continue going up significantly for at least the next couple years and teams keep passing more (without necessarily running the ball less effectively - just much less often).

If anyone must - feel free to remind me of what the guteyefeel opinion is and restate some sack totals. Maybe throw in some other stuff and/or opinions about how you insist and can't remember taking over a game and other people take over games we just saw Von Miller take over a game yada yada...Maybe put something in a question form - "...Are you saying Mo is...(!!??!?)" to open...throw in an LOL...close by restating the opinion, probably  with stronger or angrier words.

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Just for fun...Here are names that pop up for PFBReference's sim scores on Wilkerson's page:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilkMu00.htm#sim_scores::none

Richard Seymour

Michael Strahan

Charles Haley

Lee Roy Selmon

Haloti Ngata

pre-injury Tommie Harris

Joe Greene

Trevor Pryce

Jason Taylor

John Abraham

Julius Peppers

Before you mention roles - the site acknowledges that and sim scores are meant to reflect careers of similar quality and length. I know, I know...most EYES and GUTS and FEEL say otherwise 'n sh*t, but yeah....yeah....I have to say that it's really weird that back-to-back I have to convince Jets fans that Revis and Wilkerson are elite talents worth keeping around at prices that seem dramatic but really aren't within the dynamics of the game today. By that I mean the cap has and projects to continue going up significantly for at least the next couple years and teams keep passing more (without necessarily running the ball less effectively - just much less often).

If anyone must - feel free to remind me of what the guteyefeel opinion is and restate some sack totals. Maybe throw in some other stuff and/or opinions about how you insist and can't remember taking over a game and other people take over games we just saw Von Miller take over a game yada yada...Maybe put something in a question form - "...Are you saying Mo is...(!!??!?)" to open...throw in an LOL...close by restating the opinion, probably  with stronger or angrier words.

Wait, wut?

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