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This year proved you can win w/ a subpar QB


TuscanyTile2

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Just now, gEYno said:

Chad with Denver's weapons and defense wins last night by 2 touchdowns, minimum.  Probably benched by the 4th Quarter.  Do you even remember how accurate he was?

He was incredibly accurate on passes 2 yards and under.  Of course his hail marys were 2 yard dump offs as well.

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He was incredibly accurate on passes 2 yards and under.  Of course his hail marys were 2 yard dump offs as well.

7.2 YPA for his career.  Also, you don't see Brady throwing bombs downfield these days, do you?  Put Chad in New England and you may very well be like, "Brady Who?"

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Chad with Denver's weapons and defense wins last night by 2 touchdowns, minimum.  Probably benched by the 4th Quarter.  Do you even remember how accurate he was?

Also, if you put Coles on Moss's shoulders, you'd have one real WR.

Santana Moss had over 700 catches and 10,000 yards. He had a great career. Trading him was a major ****-up.

I fail to see the point of this exercise. We should have built an all-time great defense around Chad or Sanchez? Yeah, I agree. Hell, we should have built one around Browning Nagle and Neil O'Donnell too.

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1 minute ago, The Troll said:

Santana Moss had over 700 catches and 10,000 yards. He had a great career. Trading him was a major ****-up.

I fail to see the point of this exercise. We should have built an all-time great defense around Chad or Sanchez? Yeah, I agree. Hell, we should have built one around Browning Nagle and Neil O'Donnell too.

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The point is, if we learned anything from last night, it's that Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez could have won a championship here if we didn't blow it around them.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's the exception not the rule but we're a lot closer to being a team built like Denver than a team built around a star QB.  If we draft Jaylon Smith, and he fully recovers, we might have a shot at being what Denver was this year.

 

I understand your premise but disagree with conclusion.

No it didn't prove a SB can be won with a subpar QB.  It proved a SB can be won with a superstar edge rusher AND a former superstar edge rusher that is still excellent.  Most teams don't even have one adequate edge rusher.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

7.2 YPA for his career.  Also, you don't see Brady throwing bombs downfield these days, do you?  Put Chad in New England and you may very well be like, "Brady Who?"

Probably he averaged 5.2 yards run by the receiver after the catch.

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The point is, if we learned anything from last night, it's that Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez could have won a championship here if we didn't blow it around them.

I would hardly call not building an all-time great defense around them "blowing it". It's pretty hard to do. That's why everyone doesn't just build legendary defenses and say **** QB.

Though I concede that the Jets could have tried harder than ******* Calvin Pace.

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Sizing up the two defenses, this is how I see it:

1) Our DL is at least as good as theirs, if not better. Probably better.

2) Our Secondary is at least as good as theirs, Probably better.

3) Our linebackers are nothing in comparison to theirs. We do not have linebackers that fit what Todd Bowles wants to do philosophically. Especially in regards to rushing OLB, we are lacking severely.

That defense is much better than ours because of coaching and linebackers. That's the way I see it. Todd Bowles and Kacy Rodgers are clearly not as experienced and groomed as Wade Phillips. Phillips is a great D coordinator and he will be for many years to come. Bowles/Rodgers have a lot of learning to do.

Even if Bowles/Rodgers were as experienced, they would NOT be able to do what Denver has done. The Jets do not have the linebackers to what Denver does.

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1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

Well, then let me ask you....... DID WE? Did we ever even once this season put up a defensive performance even close to what the Broncos did? The answer is NO. Not even close and we played a common opponent in NE.NE was absolutely gashed with injuries when we faced them and we had to use OT to finally win. Denver completely dominated ALL of NE's weapons and knocked the p*ss out of Brady. Something we didn't even come close to doing.

And start listening to what I posted. I said that we haven't a snowballs chance in hell of doing anything even close to what Denver just yesterday with this current compliment of players. If you started listening it would serve you well.

Absolute we did.  We held Andrew Luck to 7 points.  We put up fairly dominant 2nd half efforts against the Giants, Patriots, and Dolphins.  We imposed our will on Tennessee, Dallas and Cleveland. 

And I didn't say with the "current compliment of players".  I said we had a very good defense that can become dominant with 2-3 added pieces.  Because that's exactly what the Broncos were.  A DeMarcus Ware and Wade Phillips away from becoming the 2000 Ravens.

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6 minutes ago, The Troll said:

I would hardly call not building an all-time great defense around them "blowing it". It's pretty hard to do. That's why everyone doesn't just build legendary defenses and say **** QB.

Though I concede that the Jets could have tried harder than ******* Calvin Pace.

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We had QBs in place and we failed to improve the roster, both times.  Put those guys in the game last night and they win it going away.  Possibly for EITHER team!

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Absolute we did.  We held Andrew Luck to 7 points.  We put up fairly dominant 2nd half efforts against the Giants, Patriots, and Dolphins.  We imposed our will on Tennessee, Dallas and Cleveland. 

And I didn't say with the "current compliment of players".  I said we had a very good defense that can become dominant with 2-3 added pieces.  Because that's exactly what the Broncos were.  A DeMarcus Ware and Wade Phillips away from becoming the 2000 Ravens.

You're talking about a whole lot of dysfunctional losing teams, that we played. Denver, on the other hand, did that against bonafide playoff teams. Teams with winning records. The Jets have beaten TWO teams with a winning record in the last two seasons. So let me ask you, "Do you exaggerate much?" You're clearly not looking at all of the facts. And to say we are Demarcus Ware and Wade Phillips away from being the 200 Ravens, makes me want to ask you if you're doing drugs?

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The more I watch the NFL the more I feel there is no 'formula' to winning.  Teams win with offense, teams win with defense teams win with hof Qb's teams win with past it or hold the fort QB's.

- Be healthy

- Get hot at the right time

- Generate turnovers and do not turn it over

(It also really helps to have that good reg season record so you can play one less game or get that one home filed game you need in the playoffs.)

This ^ x's infin

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's the exception not the rule but we're a lot closer to being a team built like Denver than a team built around a star QB.  If we draft Jaylon Smith, and he fully recovers, we might have a shot at being what Denver was this year.

2 of the last 3 SB winners have been led by their defense. 

Get talent.  Get healthy.   Get hot,  you can win.

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3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

2 of the last 3 SB winners have been led by their defense. 

Get talent.  Get healthy.   Get hot,  you can win.

this Denver team wasn't just led by their D, they didn't have an O.  Their O scored 17 pts in the SB but outside of the opening drive here were the 2 other scores:

-drive started at car 14.  3 plays, -1 yd.  FG

-drive started at Car 4, 3 plays, 4 Yds, TD but needed a questionable penalty to set them up 1st and G at the 2.

 

their offense did absolutely nothing but keep Carolina in the game.  Seattle had an offense 2 years ago, what this Den D did in this SB is maybe the greatest defensive performance in the history of the SB when you factor in how brutal their offense was.

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1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

this Denver team wasn't just led by their D, they didn't have an O.  Their O scored 17 pts in the SB but outside of the opening drive here were the 2 other scores:

-drive started at car 14.  3 plays, -1 yd.  FG

-drive started at Car 4, 3 plays, 4 Yds, TD but needed a questionable penalty to set them up 1st and G at the 2.

 

their offense did absolutely nothing but keep Carolina in the game.  Seattle had an offense 2 years ago, what this Den D did in this SB is maybe the greatest defensive performance in the history of the SB when you factor in how brutal their offense was.

Apparently it was the worst offensive stats for any SB winning team ever. 

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We had QBs in place and we failed to improve the roster, both times.  Put those guys in the game last night and they win it going away.  Possibly for EITHER team!

Pennington has been retired for six years. During the era of Pennington and Sanchez, the only team I can think of that won a Super Bowl with defense and very little input from the QB were the 05 Steelers. For most of that period, it was all Brady, Manning, good Ben, Brees, Eli, and Rodgers. Eli isn't on the level of the others and was helped greatly by his defense, but he still led game winning drives in those two games and made plays that were never made by QBs like Sanchez and Pennington.

The league evolves. You aren't comparing apples to apples.

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17 minutes ago, The Troll said:

Pennington has been retired for six years. During the era of Pennington and Sanchez, the only team I can think of that won a Super Bowl with defense and very little input from the QB were the 05 Steelers. For most of that period, it was all Brady, Manning, good Ben, Brees, Eli, and Rodgers. Eli isn't on the level of the others and was helped greatly by his defense, but he still led game winning drives in those two games and made plays that were never made by QBs like Sanchez and Pennington.

The league evolves. You aren't comparing apples to apples.

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I bet Pennington could still sling it though... And you'd get enough input from those guys to win.  Do you not remember Pennington taking the dolphins to the playoffs in our face?  Do you not remember the back to back AFC Championship games we went to?  We let Chad and Mark down.

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20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

this Denver team wasn't just led by their D, they didn't have an O.  Their O scored 17 pts in the SB but outside of the opening drive here were the 2 other scores:

-drive started at car 14.  3 plays, -1 yd.  FG

-drive started at Car 4, 3 plays, 4 Yds, TD but needed a questionable penalty to set them up 1st and G at the 2.

their offense did absolutely nothing but keep Carolina in the game.  Seattle had an offense 2 years ago, what this Den D did in this SB is maybe the greatest defensive performance in the history of the SB when you factor in how brutal their offense was.

Seattle had an offense.  But that team was still led by their D.

Denver's O was brutal.   Their D and Special teams outscored Carolina by themselves (punt return setting up short field).

You can win, and win big, if you can rush 4 (occasionally 5) and hit the QB while playing coverage.  The Giants proved it, Seattle proved it, and last night Denver proved it.  Denver just really proved by refusing to play offense.

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21 minutes ago, The Troll said:

Pennington has been retired for six years. During the era of Pennington and Sanchez, the only team I can think of that won a Super Bowl with defense and very little input from the QB were the 05 Steelers. For most of that period, it was all Brady, Manning, good Ben, Brees, Eli, and Rodgers. Eli isn't on the level of the others and was helped greatly by his defense, but he still led game winning drives in those two games and made plays that were never made by QBs like Sanchez and Pennington.

The league evolves. You aren't comparing apples to apples.

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Ben had a bad SB in 2005 but everyone forgets how great he was in the 3 road AFC playoff games.  They were led by their D, they don't get to the SB w/o Ben. 

Both NYG SB runs were led by their D and STs but at least Eli contributed.

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

Seattle had an offense.  But that team was still led by their D.

Denver's O was brutal.   Their D and Special teams outscored Carolina by themselves (punt return setting up short field).

You can win, and win big, if you can rush 4 (occasionally 5) and hit the QB while playing coverage.  The Giants proved it, Seattle proved it, and last night Denver proved it.  Denver just really proved by refusing to play offense.

Yes Sea was led by their D but their O was really good too.

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24 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Apparently it was the worst offensive stats for any SB winning team ever. 

The only one that I can think of that may be on the same level was SB V but looking that up Unitas did have a  75 yd TD to mackey and their O scored 2 TDs but they turned it over 7 times so I'm not sure which was worse but these are the 2 worst offensive games for SB champs.

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The only one that I can think of that may be on the same level was SB V but looking that up Unitas did have a  75 yd TD to mackey and their O scored 2 TDs but they turned it over 7 times so I'm not sure which was worse but these are the 2 worst offensive games for SB champs.

Did you ever see the replay of that 75 yarder?   Tip... Tip....  catch and run.  Brutal game all the way around.  Multiple Colts have said it was un satisfying, and they were still pissed about SB III.   Hah!!  Screw 'em!

 

This has to be a little bitter sweet for Peyton.   He won, but did very little, and if Carolina holds onto one or 2 more balls, has has a much worse game.

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2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Did you ever see the replay of that 75 yarder?   Tip... Tip....  catch and run.  Brutal game all the way around.  Multiple Colts have said it was un satisfying, and they were still pissed about SB III.   Hah!!  Screw 'em!

 

This has to be a little bitter sweet for Peyton.   He won, but did very little, and if Carolina holds onto one or 2 more balls, has has a much worse game.

I actually have, that game was brutal too and it wasn't great D as much as it was last night. 

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I bet Pennington could still sling it though... And you'd get enough input from those guys to win.  Do you not remember Pennington taking the dolphins to the playoffs in our face?  Do you not remember the back to back AFC Championship games we went to?  We let Chad and Mark down.

Pennington and Sanchez were not good enough to win a championship, save for us lucking into a once every 15 years defensive aberration.

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1 hour ago, gEYno said:

I bet Pennington could still sling it though... And you'd get enough input from those guys to win.  Do you not remember Pennington taking the dolphins to the playoffs in our face?  Do you not remember the back to back AFC Championship games we went to?  We let Chad and Mark down.

I know what you're doing....... and I like it. :yes:

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1 hour ago, The Troll said:

Pennington and Sanchez were not good enough to win a championship, save for us lucking into a once every 15 years defensive aberration.

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Again.  We've seen average and even below average QBs win.  If EITHER team had Sanchez or Pennington, they'd have won last night.  More likely the Broncos, but I'd bet either of them could turn out a better performance than Cam did. Have you seen Sanchez in the playoffs?  And Pennington would have completed enough passes to move the offense.

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Again.  We've seen average and even below average QBs win.  If EITHER team had Sanchez or Pennington, they'd have won last night.  More likely the Broncos, but I'd bet either of them could turn out a better performance than Cam did. Have you seen Sanchez in the playoffs?  And Pennington would have completed enough passes to move the offense.

Pennington benefited from a pick 6 and a Santana Moss PR TD against Pittsburgh in the 04 playoffs. Too bad he led us to three whole points and actually averaged less yards per attempt than dead armed ancient Manning did yesterday.

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6 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Offense wins in the regular season, defense wins in the postseason. Which is why the Patriots haven't won more Super Bowls despite having the best QB and HC in the era (cheating aside)

Peyton is the best QB of the era 

 

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7 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's the exception not the rule but we're a lot closer to being a team built like Denver than a team built around a star QB.  If we draft Jaylon Smith, and he fully recovers, we might have a shot at being what Denver was this year.

No doubt the Jets have some nice pieces on defense, but there defense is a far cry from being any where close to the Bronco's defense.    ( what you would need your defense to be if you don't have that franchise Qb). jaylon Smith alone isn't getting the Jets defense there to the Bronco's defense level.

That Denver defense is so fast, have premier speed rushers( fast twitch athletes that can get to the Qb in a flash, Have three Legitimate cover cb's- , Lb's and safeties that can cover. 

Not trying to tick you off, but where do you see the Jets on defense matching up to what the Bronco's throw out there every week on defense.

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3 hours ago, The Troll said:

Pennington benefited from a pick 6 and a Santana Moss PR TD against Pittsburgh in the 04 playoffs. Too bad he led us to three whole points and actually averaged less yards per attempt than dead armed ancient Manning did yesterday.

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Guess you've never heard of Doug Brien, huh?

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