Better Band: Led Zepplin or The Who

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

You're a dumbass. southpark might be an even bigger Rush fan than me. 

Go spin around in a circle while trey tunes his guitar.

This is me, on stage in Charlotte before the show. I got special VIP invite. Was there for a 4pm sound check, Had wine with Geddy and Alex.  Was a blast.

[Powpow]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I actually think his vocals missing from the Who would shatter the identity of the band.  As much if not moreso than his guitar playing.  People underestimate the importance of backup vocals. Reason George is my second favorite Beatle behind John. 

And George, not John, emerged as the reigning spiritual force.   

[Snell41]

5 hours ago, munchmemory said:

 

Another "gigging guitarist's" opinion of Townshend's influence and stature.  

"Alex Lifeson listed "My Generation" as one of the songs that inspired him most in Guitar World magazine. "Pete Townshend is one of my greatest influences," Lifeson said. "More than any other guitarist, he taught me how to play rhythm guitar and demonstrated its importance, particularly in a three-piece band."

Listen, I'm not underrating rhythm at all.  Lord knows there's plenty of guitarists that can't do it.  But Pete's rhythm was good in the sense of the fact he could keep a solid time and play fast.  But his chords were nothing stellar at all.  He played big chords, loud, fast, and hard.  He was a rock rhythm guitarist through and through.  But having said that there was nothing dynamic about his chord voicings at all.  There didn't need to be in the Who, everything was loud and big.  Anything Pete tried to do dynamically would have been washed out in the power of it all. 

 

You referenced Alex Lifeson.  That guy played some ridiculous chord voicings to fill the space, especially given he was in a 3 piece.  If you really want to talk about the best rhythm guitarists on the planet you start and end with Bob Weir.  That guy is a jazz pianist playing guitar.  You may hear a ton of Dead tribute bands, but rarely does one ever get what Bobby does down properly.  Not even DSO.  Bobby's understanding of timing and chord voicings are unparalleled.  It's kind of funny because as unique and talented Jerry was, you'll find a lot more guys who can somewhat mimic him than you can Bobby.

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Actually, although I consider Zeppelin the better band, I think they made better overall music, the writing should probably go to the Who. I've been listening to Quadrephenia...Plant never wrote anything as good as this. 

Quadrephenia is by a wide margin the greatest album ever written. Zep however was musically superior and their catalog was more in sync with the rock n roll of the era.  The Who, while they were astonishingly magnificent for a period, became rather popish in their later albums.  Zep's later albums, particularly Physical Graffiti, were highly underrated. 

https://youtu.be/4l3Zui99fvE?list=PLQ5ViwnWZ_8rM1YCg9b0RifwAslxdlzeh

[shevys]

4 hours ago, slats said:

My first thought when I saw this thread was Zeppelin by a wide margin. I tempered that to simply Zeppelin being better because I do enjoy The Who. But their songwriting isn't the strength of the group, either. Not like Zeppelin. 

Multiple Zeppelin plagiarism issues may convince you otherwise. Of course, there's stuff like D'yer Maker...perhaps the worst song in the history of rock and roll. If anything, I'd say Pete's songwriting would be the difference maker in "Who" is the better band. Look at how many people talk about how Quadrophenia got them through adolescence. I'm not sure anyone would say the same about garbage like this:

Oh, oh oh oh, oh oh, you don't have to go
Oh, oh oh, oh oh, you don't have to go
Oh, oh oh, oh oh, you don't have to go
Ay, ay ay ay, ay ay, all those tears I cry
Ay, ay ay, ay ay, all those tears I cry
Oh oh, ay ay, baby please don't go

When I read the letter you wrote me
It made me mad, mad, mad
When I read the words that it told me
It made me sad, sad, sad
But I still love you so, I can't let you go
I love you, ooh baby, I love you!

Oh, oh oh oh, oh oh, every breath I take
Oh oh oh oh oh, oh, every move I make, hey hey
Oh, baby, please don't go
Ay, ay ay ay, ay ay, you hurt me to my soul
Oh oh, oh oh, you hurt me to my soul
Oh oh, darling, please don't go...blah blah blah.

[shevys]

6 hours ago, slats said:

I actually loved In Through the Out Door, and was excited to see what direction Led Zeppelin would go in next before Bonham died. I like The Who, but their legacy gets tainted when when you consider the whole Kenny Jones era. Like Led Zep, they should've hung it up when Moon died. Moon was that band. 

That said, I saw The Who last summer at Jazz Fest with Zak Starkey on the drums, and they were great. It's almost like Zak is Moon's kid rather than Ringo's. 

I'm sure you know that Moon was Zak's godfather and gave him his first set of drums.

[munchmemory]

5 hours ago, HessStation said:

speaking of fills was there anyone better than Keith Moon?

Bonham might be the better overall drummer but Moon gets more points from me on unique style and crazy fills. 

Just saw this.  IMO, Moon, Ian Paice and Neil Peart are the quintessential rock drummers.  But if you're looking for a guy who can play rock as well as anything complicated/technical, then my vote goes to Vinnie Colaiuta.  Talent wise, he's on another planet.

[munchmemory]

12 minutes ago, shevys said:

I'm sure you know that Moon was Zak's godfather and gave him his first set of drums.

Every time I see Zak, he impresses me more.  Great power and touch.

[Bugg]

7 hours ago, NJ said:

Better guitar work in Led Zep with Page (not saying Townsend is a slouch - he sure ain't)

Was going to say better song composition edge to the Who with rock opera's but then there's Houses of The Holy.

Hard to give an edge to anyone over Keith Moon - but Bonham might.

Same thing with Plant vs. Daltrey - both masters.

Bass slight edge to JP Jones.

Zep by an RCH (Red _ _nt Hair) 

Jones and Entwistle are/were both great musicians. But Entwistle is playing the bass like a lead instrument a lot, and still keeping a beat. Listen the "The Real Me"; it's freaking unbelievable a bass guitar is basically doing all that; it's really difficult to pull off and he plays the French horn tracks on the same song. .He's doing things with the bass very few people can do nor ever try. 

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Jones and Entwistle are/were both great musicians. But Entwistle is playing the bass like a lead instrument a lot, and still keeping a beat. Listen the "The Real Me"; it's freaking unbelievable a bass guitar is basically doing all that; it's really difficult to pull off and he plays the French horn tracks on the same song. .He's doing things with the bass very few people can do nor ever try. 

Townshend has often said that he was able to do much of his stage lunacy because Entwistle played bass like a lead guitar.

 

[munchmemory]

A few noteworthy musicians comment on Entwistle's bass chops:

 

[HighPitch]

Hmmmmmmmm....

ok, its silly to compare apples and oranges but ill play:

im more a zep fan than the who by far, but i dont dislike the who. Clearly, zep are the better musicians and i think their songwriting was superior.

 

but zep, in their early years, stole lots of material.

 

zep by a mile with respect to the who. I like a lot of the b songs such as "night flight" and "were gonna groove". When you think of songs like going to california, really what does the who offer?

[CTM]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

This is me, on stage in Charlotte before the show. I got special VIP invite. Was there for a 4pm sound check, Had wine with Geddy and Alex.  Was a blast.

A+++ you really take your Klacko trolling seriously

[HighPitch]

Oh and rush is just as important if not more important that the two combined.

page and townend combined cant touch the beauty that is lifeson. 

[CTM]

4 hours ago, Snell41 said:

You referenced Alex Lifeson.  That guy played some ridiculous chord voicings to fill the space, especially given he was in a 3 piece.  If you really want to talk about the best rhythm guitarists on the planet you start and end with Bob Weir.  That guy is a jazz pianist playing guitar.  You may hear a ton of Dead tribute bands, but rarely does one ever get what Bobby does down properly.  Not even DSO.  Bobby's understanding of timing and chord voicings are unparalleled.  It's kind of funny because as unique and talented Jerry was, you'll find a lot more guys who can somewhat mimic him than you can Bobby.

 

100%.. Bobby can't even play like Bobby anymore lol

Jerry is rather easy to ape, what made him special was how unique his sound was

Rest of post was spot on, I've heard people say Townshend invented power chords, not sure if thats true or not but not sure how proud I'd be of that anyway

[CTM]

6 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Hmmmmmmmm....

ok, its silly to compare apples and oranges but ill play:

im more a zep fan than the who by far, but i dont dislike the who. Clearly, zep are the better musicians and i think their songwriting was superior.

 

but zep, in their early years, stole lots of material.

 

zep by a mile with respect to the who. I like a lot of the b songs such as "night flight" and "were gonna groove". When you think of songs like going to california, really what does the who offer?

did you come to this definitive conclusion after listening to 2-3 of their songs?

[PatsFanTX]

The Bee Gee's are better than both.

[HighPitch]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

did you come to this definitive conclusion after listening to 2-3 of their songs?

Your a funny guy. I have almost every zep album on vinyl and too much who stuff. I grew up on all of this junk.

I mentioned 2 songs that are underrated, imo. Show some respect fool if you wanna have musical debates lets go 

[HighPitch]

1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said:

The Bee Gee's are better than both.

Bee gees have their rightful place in rock, but they arent in this league tx

[PatsFanTX]

Bee gees have their rightful place in rock, but they arent in this league tx

Psssst, it was a poor joke.

[HighPitch]

9 hours ago, CTM said:

Yes, outside of Rush sucking being unequivocal, music is completely subjective. I was just going to troll a bit

Oh ok now i get it. Rush, yes, early genesis......these are thinking man bands.

not for everyone. Not for you obviously. Hey maybe you can dig up a vintage 3/4 sleeve who shirt on ebay, buy some budweiser and go to a cool rock club and hold your lighter up in the air when the ballad begins. Youd be cool all over again

[The Crusher]

15 minutes ago, CTM said:

A+++ you really take your Klacko trolling seriously

 

13 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Oh and rush is just as important if not more important that the two combined.

page and townend combined cant touch the beauty that is lifeson. 

LOL

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

The Bee Gee's are better than both.

Boo...  If you had any game you wold have accused Zeppelin of cheating.

[munchmemory]

17 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Oh and rush is just as important if not more important that the two combined.

page and townend combined cant touch the beauty that is lifeson. 

Look, I dig Alex a ton.  But,

[HighPitch]

18 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

10 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Ctm and crusher before a who concert

[PatsFanTX]

Boo...  If you had any game you wold have accused Zeppelin of cheating.

Actually, I hated Zep growing up (too much Stairway to Heaven), but they have really grown on me over the years.

Always loved the Who. Who's Next is an all-time top 5 album.

Two very good bands, but I'll still take the Dead and Pink Floyd over both of them.

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Oh ok now i get it. Rush, yes, early genesis......these are thinking man bands.

not for everyone. Not for you obviously. Hey maybe you can dig up a vintage 3/4 sleeve who shirt on ebay, buy some budweiser and go to a cool rock club and hold your lighter up in the air when the ballad begins. Youd be cool all over again

Got one from when I saw them in the 80's at the carrier dome. LOL.  Pretty sweet I must say.  A+ reference.

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Actually, I hated Zep growing up (too much Stairway to Heaven), but they have really grown on me over the years.

Always loved the Who. Who's Next is an all-time top 5 album.

Two very good bands, but I'll still take the Dead and Pink Floyd over both of them.

 

On 2/23/2016 at 9:26 AM, The Crusher said:

Love the Who.  Third favorite behind The Beatles and Pink Floyd. 

 

9 hours ago, The Crusher said:

My college roommate in my freshman year was a veteran of 40+ shows when we met.  Good number with his wealthy hippie parents.  Shows up with Boes 901 speakers and crates and crates of bootlegs that his Dad started making in early 70's and he continued.  By the time we graduated I went to +\- 25 shows.  I can close my eyes and still hear Jerry.  I pity anyone who never got to see (feel) them live.  

OK so today I kinda like you.

[HighPitch]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Got one from when I saw them in the 80's at the carrier dome. LOL.  Pretty sweet I must say.  A+ reference.

Yes thank you

[HighPitch]

Not to derail, but lets remember all this is ridiculously subjective. 

Imo, townsend was a very mediocre guitarist. He was good at rhythm, sloppy and uninteresting at leads but a fair songwriter.

page was sloppy all around, but in a better way and certainly better at leads. However, he is by far the better songwriter when he wasnt stealing.

lifeson just has it all. Unbelieveable songwriter, rhythm player and such surgical precision in his solos combined with beautiful feel and emotion and dynamics. Its not even close.

the only thing alex doesnt have is that super stardom mystique of the 60s and 70s. Hes from a different era

[Snell41]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

 

100%.. Bobby can't even play like Bobby anymore lol

Jerry is rather easy to ape, what made him special was how unique his sound was

Rest of post was spot on, I've heard people say Townshend invented power chords, not sure if thats true or not but not sure how proud I'd be of that anyway

Power chords have their place for sure.  Musically I would never try to play the "my band is better than your band" game.  Music is subjective, and that's the beauty of it.  But for technical virtuosity and the ease of playing a particular style, Townshend was a pretty simplistic guitarist.  Now he did have great timing, which is one hell of a skill in itself.  When you listen to a guy like Clapton playing leads, he doesn't do a whole lot more than any other blues guitarist.  But what Clapton had was impeccable timing.  He always landed on the right note on the turnarounds and changes.  Always.  A guy like Page would spew out a boatload of notes to the point it would scream right over the turnaround/chord changes.  Not nearly as much phrasing as Clapton even though Page could play much faster. 

Jerry's sound was amazing, but his tone was straight from his fingers.  So many people go the wrong way, thinking that plucky sound of his came from fat strings.  It's actually quite the opposite.  Jerry played light strings with high action.  The action being so high made the notes ring just a hair sharp, especially in the low frets.  Think of that opening lick of Althea to understand what I mean.  Jerry's fingers were immensely strong.  He would bend notes with his pinky often, and he would bend notes in half steps effortlessly within a fast run up the fretboard.  That's what gave his leads such emotion to them.  It was just like his vocals, just perfectly flawed if that makes sense. 

[The Crusher]

49 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Power chords have their place for sure.  Musically I would never try to play the "my band is better than your band" game.  Music is subjective, and that's the beauty of it.  But for technical virtuosity and the ease of playing a particular style, Townshend was a pretty simplistic guitarist.  Now he did have great timing, which is one hell of a skill in itself.  When you listen to a guy like Clapton playing leads, he doesn't do a whole lot more than any other blues guitarist.  But what Clapton had was impeccable timing.  He always landed on the right note on the turnarounds and changes.  Always.  A guy like Page would spew out a boatload of notes to the point it would scream right over the turnaround/chord changes.  Not nearly as much phrasing as Clapton even though Page could play much faster. 

Jerry's sound was amazing, but his tone was straight from his fingers.  So many people go the wrong way, thinking that plucky sound of his came from fat strings.  It's actually quite the opposite.  Jerry played light strings with high action.  The action being so high made the notes ring just a hair sharp, especially in the low frets.  Think of that opening lick of Althea to understand what I mean.  Jerry's fingers were immensely strong.  He would bend notes with his pinky often, and he would bend notes in half steps effortlessly within a fast run up the fretboard.  That's what gave his leads such emotion to them.  It was just like his vocals, just perfectly flawed if that makes sense. 

Damn good post.  

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Not to derail, but lets remember all this is ridiculously subjective. 

Imo, townsend was a very mediocre guitarist. He was good at rhythm, sloppy and uninteresting at leads but a fair songwriter.

page was sloppy all around, but in a better way and certainly better at leads. However, he is by far the better songwriter when he wasnt stealing.

lifeson just has it all. Unbelieveable songwriter, rhythm player and such surgical precision in his solos combined with beautiful feel and emotion and dynamics. Its not even close.

the only thing alex doesnt have is that super stardom mystique of the 60s and 70s. Hes from a different era

I hear they love him in Nova Scotia.  

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Not to derail, but lets remember all this is ridiculously subjective. 

Imo, townsend was a very mediocre guitarist. He was good at rhythm, sloppy and uninteresting at leads but a fair songwriter.

page was sloppy all around, but in a better way and certainly better at leads. However, he is by far the better songwriter when he wasnt stealing.

lifeson just has it all. Unbelieveable songwriter, rhythm player and such surgical precision in his solos combined with beautiful feel and emotion and dynamics. Its not even close.

the only thing alex doesnt have is that super stardom mystique of the 60s and 70s. Hes from a different era

Page is the most musical rock guitarist, and best rock guitar composer of all time. He was not the cleanest player live. But he was in a different world as a creator and player of music in my view. Zeppelin was the most talented band ever including the Beatles.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

P.  A guy like Page would spew out a boatload of notes to the point it would scream right over the turnaround/chord changes.  Not nearly as much phrasing as Clapton even though Page could play much faster. 

 

Not sure I have ever read a more incorrect statement.