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Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED


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Just now, kelticwizard said:

Fitz has no leverage, other than taking immensely less money somewhere else, if indeed that offer is still on the table.  There are no other teams interested in offering him a chance to be a starter.

Or even a backup I haven't seen anybody offer him a job as a water boy. 

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First of all Fitz is a lot better Qb than that. And it's called negotiations. Phil Simms is one of many who held out until the exhibition season one year because he didn't like the deal he was offered. I love these fans who are rooting for a player to make less money. Like it's coming out of their pocket. And could be the closed market for starting Qbs will open up. 

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1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

First of all Fitz is a lot better Qb than that. And it's called negotiations. Phil Simms is one of many who held out until the exhibition season one year because he didn't like the deal he was offered. I love these fans who are rooting for a player to make less money. Like it's coming out of their pocket. And could be the closed market for starting Qbs will open up. 

Do you understand how the salary cap works?

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23 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Do you understand how the salary cap works?

It's a do-able contract even at 12 mil per season for one year. But probably Fitz will have to take less money to sign. According to you and your friends he should play for free or get out. 

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15 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It's a do-able contract even at 12 mil per season for one year. But probably Fitz will have to take less money to sign. According to you and his friends he should play for free or get out. 

Are you related to fitz or know him personally ? Just curious why you care he gets his asking price. He has done pretty well. if not for a backup lb with a strong punch he probably would have have been lucky to receive an offer For more than 2-4 million by anyone.. Mac went cap crazy last yr, so it will effect the team to scrap up funds for fitz..Sure they can do a contract that pushes cap $ to next year, but he isn't worth it. He should be very happy to be given a starting contract.. He atleast should pick up a football and start training like geno is doing. If he cares so much about the game and the jets.. Instead it's sounds like he would rather sit at home and complain about the jets..

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25 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It's a do-able contract even at 12 mil per season for one year. But probably Fitz will have to take less money to sign. According to you and your friends he should play for free or get out. 

The less money fitz takes now will make the jets a better team. It's not a personal issue like you want to make it

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31 minutes ago, cant wait said:

The less money fitz takes now will make the jets a better team. It's not a personal issue like you want to make it

The Jets have the money and can make the cap space if they want to. What's more important a starting Qb or a few backup linebackers you might be able sign for the difference. I love these amateur capologists who don't know what they're talking about. This is only about vengeance and payback for losing in week 17. If that's the case you should cut the entire team and fire the coaching staff. It's just plain ignorance. 

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51 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Are you related to fitz or know him personally ? Just curious why you care he gets his asking price. He has done pretty well. if not for a backup lb with a strong punch he probably would have have been lucky to receive an offer For more than 2-4 million by anyone.. Mac went cap crazy last yr, so it will effect the team to scrap up funds for fitz..Sure they can do a contract that pushes cap $ to next year, but he isn't worth it. He should be very happy to be given a starting contract.. He atleast should pick up a football and start training like geno is doing. If he cares so much about the game and the jets.. Instead it's sounds like he would rather sit at home and complain about the jets..

He's the best available Qb and successfully ran our best offense in years. If he's your starter you have to pay him. Even on a one year deal. If not go forward with Geno. It's as simple as that. You say he's not worth it even under market. Ok, so no deal. 

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4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He's the best available Qb and successfully ran our best offense in years. If he's your starter you have to pay him. Even on a one year deal. If not go forward with Geno. It's as simple as that. You say he's not worth it even under market. Ok, so no deal. 

He isn't our starter, he is a FA looking for a job. Maybe he isn't given the unconditional starter spot if he overplays his hand. He has no other starting option right now. Jets are playing the game all players play. Your market is only what other teams are willing to pay you. So far fitz has 1 legit offer. Why should the jets negotiate against themselves ? 

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13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He's the best available Qb and successfully ran our best offense in years. If he's your starter you have to pay him. Even on a one year deal. If not go forward with Geno. It's as simple as that. You say he's not worth it even under market. Ok, so no deal. 

If you can't see that Chan Gailey and a couple of pro wr's are the main reason that we had the best offense years, then you need to stop watching football and just worry about the King's decline.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

He isn't our starter, he is a FA looking for a job. Maybe he isn't given the unconditional starter spot if he overplays his hand. He has no other starting option right now. Jets are playing the game all players play. Your market is only what other teams are willing to pay you. So far fitz has 1 legit offer. Why should the jets negotiate against themselves ? 

The players don't think that way. They even are keeping his locker ready for him to return. He's their starter. This is a stupid move. You don't bid against yourself but you offer a fair market deal. He's worth 12 mil for one year. But he'd probably take less just to get out of here in 2017.

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10 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

If you can't see that Chan Gailey and a couple of pro wr's are the main reason that we had the best offense years, then you need to stop watching football and just worry about the King's decline.

Since when is Chan Gailey a HOF coach. Take a look at his resume. He was ok but the players had a lot to do with that. And the Qb ran that offense not the wide receivers. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If there is any chance we can keep Mo at the cost of not signing a weak journeyman who is acting like a diva, there shouldn't even be a debate. Mo/geno > Fitzpatrick by a landslide.

Mo's contract has nothing to do with Fitz's. That ridiculous notion has been dispelled many, many times. 

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12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The players don't think that way. They even are keeping his locker ready for him to return. He's their starter. This is a stupid move. You don't bid against yourself but you offer a fair market deal. He's worth 12 mil for one year. But he'd probably take less just to get out of here in 2017.

Lol.. Where is he going in 17? Without Marshall/decker and his main man gailey I don't think he would be starting long if he did sign somewhere else.. He would be 35 in 17, not too many teams are going to sign a old journeyman with a weak arm.. Would be a good backup to all these young qbs though..

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2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol.. Where is he going in 17? Without Marshall/decker and his main man gailey I don't think he would be starting long if he did sign somewhere else.. He would be 35 in 17, not too many teams are going to sign a old journeyman with a weak arm.. Would be a good backup to all these young qbs though..

If he returns to the Jets on a one year deal say for 8 mil and has another good year he'll get a decent deal somewhere for 2017 and maybe 2018. By decent I mean low market for a starter like 12 mil per. If he sucks then he loses money by not signing the Jets 3 year offer for 15 mil guaranteed. It all depends on how he performs and the job market. 

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18 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Mo's contract has nothing to do with Fitz's. That ridiculous notion has been dispelled many, many times. 

yeah, signing him to an extension probably helps the cap.  the franchise number is very high and I believe it all counts to this season

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3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If there is any chance we can keep Mo at the cost of not signing a weak journeyman who is acting like a diva, there shouldn't even be a debate. Mo/geno > Fitzpatrick by a landslide.

mo > fitz... yes... throwing in the genome just downgrades the equation.

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2 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Fitz has no leverage, other than taking immensely less money somewhere else, if indeed that offer is still on the table.  There are no other teams interested in offering him a chance to be a starter.

Fitz HAS Leverage... it's called geno

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

He's the best available Qb and successfully ran our best offense in years. If he's your starter you have to pay him. Even on a one year deal. If not go forward with Geno. It's as simple as that. You say he's not worth it even under market. Ok, so no deal. 

Dude, no. One year deal means letting go of Mo. The talent drop from Fitz to Geno is very minimal n I argue otherwise anyways. Then why pay 12 mil n lose your 2nd best, if not the best defender? How much are the starters in Denver n Cleveland making? None of them are on a rookie contract. What's the starting QB in NY making? Should these teams renegotiate just to offer market average in your opinion? Why does Chase Daniel's contract define what a backup should be making? Why does the best QB in the NFL make 14 mil while we should pay 12mil to your man-love? Let it sink in. Brady makes $14 mil. Deflate gate or not, he's at least a top 3 QB in the history of the game n hasn't shown signs of age yet. 

Fitz is a 5 mil a year QB. Why overpay? No one else did, why should we? Macc should take the offer down asap n tell him we'll contact you if we plan on missing the playoffs...again. 

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think that's the route to Perma-Cleveland.  

Lost of losing, praying over draft picks (most of whom fail), long, depressing, uninteresting seasons for little gain (since losing so much ensures staff changeover every 3-4 seasons).  Free Agents avoid us, so no help there.  Just, ugh, dark.

I'd much more enjoy perennial 9-7/10-6 seasons and consistent competitiveness by my team, and regular chances to make the playoffs rather then perennial "new kids learning and losing" 5-6 win years on the slim hopes one year a bunch of kids and a yet-another-new-regime somehow pull off a miracle. 

But as you say, to each their own.

And neither the Jags nor the Raiders are a legit contenders this year.  Just say'in.

Yup.

I'd far rather we keep trying to be competitive and gradually develop into a winning team rather than sucking and hoping we strike gold. I also know most of our fans would never have the patience for the latter anyways so no regime would ever intentionally go that route. 

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45 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Dude, no. One year deal means letting go of Mo. The talent drop from Fitz to Geno is very minimal n I argue otherwise anyways. Then why pay 12 mil n lose your 2nd best, if not the best defender? How much are the starters in Denver n Cleveland making? None of them are on a rookie contract. What's the starting QB in NY making? Should these teams renegotiate just to offer market average in your opinion? Why does Chase Daniel's contract define what a backup should be making? Why does the best QB in the NFL make 14 mil while we should pay 12mil to your man-love? Let it sink in. Brady makes $14 mil. Deflate gate or not, he's at least a top 3 QB in the history of the game n hasn't shown signs of age yet. 

Fitz is a 5 mil a year QB. Why overpay? No one else did, why should we? Macc should take the offer down asap n tell him we'll contact you if we plan on missing the playoffs...again. 

You know and I know that the Brady contract is not the one you compare other Qbs to. It's manipulated so if he's suspended in 2016 he doesn't take much of a hit for missing 4 games. And it balloons into the 20's per season in years 3 and 4 and 28 is guaranteed. But it's low, suspiciously low for a Qb of his caliber. We've talked about NEP low contracts many times and their entire operation is sneaky and questionable. Compare to lower starter deals that basically begin at 16 mil per season. And read any literature about this impasse between Fitz and the Jets and they will state this emphatically as to what market rates are for starting Qbs. The problem with the Jets offer is years 2 and 3. It's not a fair offer to try to control a player and basically tell him to take a demotion or be an insurance policy for the GM and the owner. I don't like the Jets take it or leave it attitude towards a player who stepped up for them and they say they  want back as their starter. I think he deserves a 1 year 12 mil deal esp since he started last year and was paid on a low backup deal. But I think he'll take 8 but not sure. 

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Just one more thing. If the talent drop between Fitz and Geno is minimal then don't sign Fitz at all. Why should they if both players are equal and Geno is very inexpensive. The thing is they know that isn't true. Nobody believes that. Again you completely dismiss what his teammates think about him including Decker and Marshall. You think they'd want him back if he's the terrible Qb people like you claim he is. You're dead wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Just one more thing. If the talent drop between Fitz and Geno is minimal then don't sign Fitz at all. Why should they if both players are equal and Geno is very inexpensive. The thing is they know that isn't true. Nobody believes that. Again you completely dismiss what his teammates think about him including Decker and Marshall. You think they'd want him back if he's the terrible Qb people like you claim he is. You're dead wrong. 

You don't believe jets should have a good viable option at #2 ? That was fitz last year, and it's a good thing we did. Don't tell me you believe petty is ready to assume the #2. Everyone says he isn't ready to be 1 play away from being the starter.. If SF releases kap, or someone else pops up on the market fitz may be forced to find a backup job somewhere else.. 

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4 hours ago, Larz said:

yeah, signing him to an extension probably helps the cap.  the franchise number is very high and I believe it all counts to this season

It does and it doesn't. It provides some relief this year, true. But then next year - particularly if we use Mo's "savings" on Fitz - the team isn't going to be in a position to add anybody of substance. Sorry but Fitz just isn't anywhere close to good enough of a QB to warrant a "put all our eggs in the 2016 basket" do or die season where we use up all of our dwindling 2017 resources to use on 2016 instead. I'd be shocked if they re-sign Fitz and extend Mo, no matter how much / how many want it to happen.

Say extending Mo at $17M/yr (can't see him signing now for less than Vernon) would be structured to clear as much as $9-10M this year below his current $16M cap #. This being year 1 of a new deal (assume a new 5 yr deal total) would mean that's $2.5-2.75M additional cap $ per year he'll have to average over the last 4. (If he counts only ~$6-7M this year, then $10-11M would shift to the remaining 4 years, which therefore adds $2.5-2.75M/yr above the mean: the result is that the last 4 years from '17-'20 his cap hits would be nearly $20M/year).

Well, that elevated cap hit level would start in 2017. We're projected $21M under right now, but even that is a fake optimistic number because it doesn't include Darron Lee (figure around a $3M cap #) or any of our 2017 draft picks (guess around $6M give or take). Add Mo's $19M to that extra $9M and that puts us some $7M over the cap before fiddling with things to provide relief, like cutting Breno and others. Sure there are also ways of moving more of our 2018 space to 2017, but not likely enough to clear the kind of space to add anyone great. 

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2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Just one more thing. If the talent drop between Fitz and Geno is minimal then don't sign Fitz at all. Why should they if both players are equal and Geno is very inexpensive. The thing is they know that isn't true. Nobody believes that. Again you completely dismiss what his teammates think about him including Decker and Marshall. You think they'd want him back if he's the terrible Qb people like you claim he is. You're dead wrong. 

I don't want Fitz for 12 mil. Decker n Mangold are like best buddies with Fitz. Marshall switches his favorite QB like Lady Gaga changes outfits. I wouldn't put too much stock into them. Fitz is no Manning/Brady/Favre/Marino/Gannon. He's going to decline and declined rapidly. Remember, Teblow took Denver to the playoffs and even won a game. But he was still sh*t. They call it aberration/anomaly. That was Fitz 2015 season. He's not repeating that again and certainly not against Ds that aren't ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league in pass D. 

Im betting on a learning curve for Geno, who outplayed Fitz last off season until he got sucker punched. I don't care if he took a dump on that reporter or cried on his draft night. Fitz can't hold his jockstrap this year and I hope all the Fitznutz hope for the same (since it'll be good for the team overall). If Fitz outplays Geno n wins the job, I'll be behind him. 

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9 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Just one more thing. If the LIKELY PERFORMANCE drop between Fitz and Geno is minimal then don't sign Fitz at all. Why should they if both players are equal and Geno is very inexpensive.

This line should /endthread tbqh, because is distills the entire issue down perfectly.

If Geno Smith has a likely predicted performance (as seen by our Front Office/GM/Staff) equal to Fitz, Fitz should not be resigned.   If Geno Smith can produce, on the field, in the locker room, mentoring the two "the future" kid QB's, etc. the same way or with only a negligible, non-material dropoff in quality, then Fitz should not be resigned.  

If Fitz is believed to have a materially superior predicted performance (again, as seen by our GM/Staff) with material benefits both for now (the 2016 season) and the future (mentoring the kids), and the cost can be covered under the cap with minimal/non-material damage to roster talent/Front Office preferences, then Fitz should be resigned.

That really is all there is to say.  It's Macc's call which of the two above is it.  We can only judge the after effects.

 

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43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This line should /endthread tbqh, because is distills the entire issue down perfectly.

If Geno Smith has a likely predicted performance (as seen by our Front Office/GM/Staff) equal to Fitz, Fitz should not be resigned.   If Geno Smith can produce, on the field, in the locker room, mentoring the two "the future" kid QB's, etc. the same way or with only a negligible, non-material dropoff in quality, then Fitz should not be resigned.  

If Fitz is believed to have a materially superior predicted performance (again, as seen by our GM/Staff) with material benefits both for now (the 2016 season) and the future (mentoring the kids), and the cost can be covered under the cap with minimal/non-material damage to roster talent/Front Office preferences, then Fitz should be resigned.

That really is all there is to say.  It's Macc's call which of the two above is it.  We can only judge the after effects.

 

I'm pretty much fine with either scenario. Kinda crazy that this is such an argument... still.

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17 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

He's the best available Qb and successfully ran our best offense in years. If he's your starter you have to pay him. Even on a one year deal. If not go forward with Geno. It's as simple as that. You say he's not worth it even under market. Ok, so no deal. 

And it's strongly beginning to look like it will be that simple.  The Jets look at the same tape as everyone else, they see that so much of Fitz' success is due to his receivers' play and not the QB's.  The Jets are looking more and more like they are preparing to go forward with Geno and use the money to keep other good players.

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20 hours ago, j4jets said:

I don't want Fitz for 12 mil. Remember, Teblow took Denver to the playoffs and even won a game. But he was still sh*t. They call it aberration/anomaly. That was Fitz 2015 season. He's not repeating that again and certainly not against Ds that aren't ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league in pass D. 

 

Fitz's rating for all of his numbers with us last year was 88.

how do you explain his 12 games for Houston in 2014 having a rating of 95 in your aberration/anomaly logic ?

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6 minutes ago, ljr said:

Fitz's rating for all of his numbers with us last year was 88.

how do you explain his 12 games for Houston in 2014 having a rating of 95 in your aberration/anomaly logic ?

You explain it by saying so what.  No one puts all their eggs in a stupid, flawed QR score only.  

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