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Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED


kelly
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4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Flippant answer is someone else. The Jets MUST find someone signficantly better than Fitz, and that starts with someone who has more talent and less limitations. So that could be Petty, it could be a draft pick, it could be a solid backup that has not a chance, but starting Fitz accomplishes nothing IF your goal is long term success. If the goal is short term competiitiveness and a more fan friendly 2016 product with less emphasis on sustained success then start Fitz. I think that is 100% not the way to go.

You seriously believe a draft pick or Petty could play better than Fitz did a year ago? 

Really?  

 

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12 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Flippant answer is someone else. The Jets MUST find someone signficantly better than Fitz, and that starts with someone who has more talent and less limitations. So that could be Petty, it could be a draft pick, it could be a solid backup that has not a chance, but starting Fitz accomplishes nothing IF your goal is long term success. If the goal is short term competiitiveness and a more fan friendly 2016 product with less emphasis on sustained success then start Fitz. I think that is 100% not the way to go.

Nobody like that is currently available, so you improve the team around him and hope Petty or another draft pick takes a big leap forward for the next season.

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12 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Flippant answer is someone else. The Jets MUST find someone signficantly better than Fitz, and that starts with someone who has more talent and less limitations. So that could be Petty, it could be a draft pick, it could be a solid backup that has not a chance, but starting Fitz accomplishes nothing IF your goal is long term success. If the goal is short term competiitiveness and a more fan friendly 2016 product with less emphasis on sustained success then start Fitz. I think that is 100% not the way to go.

Petty didn't even look that good facing 3rd stringers last August and you want him to start? Lol

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25 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

I think we're cutting Geno and drafting another QB after Fitz gets resigned 

Agree that smith will be gone, and they will probably draft another QB mid rounds if available, but think they will hang on to smith in the hopes that they can get something for him as a back up.   5th rounder?  This is a weak QB class, and not much out there in the FA market.

Don't want t o see it, rather see smith gone before the draft, but it's possible he is here until the first QB get's hurt in camp.  

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11 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Agree that smith will be gone, and they will probably draft another QB mid rounds if available, but think they will hang on to smith in the hopes that they can get something for him as a back up.   5th rounder?  This is a weak QB class, and not much out there in the FA market.

Don't want t o see it, rather see smith gone before the draft, but it's possible he is here until the first QB get's hurt in camp.  

Well don't forget that Geno has a "workout bonus" in his contract, from what I can see.  If he shows up to the offseason workout program (starts Apr 18), he gets a $415,000 "workout bonus".

So I would think that April 18th is the deadline for us to work out a trade.  I doubt we pay Geno $415,000 to show up to a voluntary offseason workout program if we have no intention of him being on the final 53-man roster.  I'm not sure if that money counts against the cap, but if it does, he will DEFINITELY be gone by then unless we plan to keep him until his contract expires after 2016.

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57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Kirk Cousins is about to get $18-20M per season.  Yes, you read that correctly.

That's how desperate the QB situation is around the league.  When you have a QB, you don't let him walk.  Re-sign Fitz. 

Kirk cousins also had the highest passer rating and completion percentage in the nfl, and almost beat Aaron Rodgers and the packers in the playoffs, if it wasn't for his horrendous defense.

 

 

so, people like you, who love fitz when he has only beat 2 or 3 teams with winning records in his 11 year career, and sh*ts the bed against any decent defense that he faces, you want this guy for $18-$20 million what will you say when he is throwing picks like candy next season? 

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6 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Kirk cousins also had the highest passer rating and completion percentage in the nfl, and almost beat Aaron Rodgers and the packers in the playoffs, if it wasn't for his horrendous defense.

 

 

so, people like you, who love fitz when he has only beat 2 or 3 teams with winning records in his 11 year career, and sh*ts the bed against any decent defense that he faces, you want this guy for $18-$20 million what will you say when he is throwing picks like candy next season? 

lol.  This whole post is silly.  The minute Cousins faced top competition, he folded like a tent, much like Fitzpatrick critics like to rip HIM for.  Cousins also looked awful against the Jets:  Did you forget that part already?

Meanwhile, in no way, shape or form am I advocating paying Fitz big dollars, particularly not in the neighborhood that Cousins is about to get.  I think Fitz will end up signing for about half as much (on a per season basis) compared to Cousins.  Cousins is about to be paid like a franchise QB.  Fitz will be paid like a stopgap starter.  HUGE difference there.

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:10 AM, johnnysd said:

 Keeping Fitz as a veteran presence at low $ is fine, starting him again is idiotic. Have people really not learned from the past?  And anything North Of $5M Is REALLY idiotic. Starting JAG veteran QBs is not how to build a team.

So what's your genius solution? Starting Geno Smith again? GET REAL. Geno Smith is DONE as a Jet. You know it and so do I. Don't forget we have a bet going on this. You're going to owe Elias $50.

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3 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Kirk cousins is an elite qb 

He had a fantastic season.  Does that mean you automatically cough up top 10 QB money?  And in so doing commit to him for at least the next 3 years? 

Fitzpatrick has had 3 straight seasons of top 20 QB play and 2 straight seasons of top 15 QB play.  Yet when people suggest we pay him $9M per season (which would be significantly less than just about every other top 20 QB) everyone loses their minds.  Cousins has had one excellent season, and suddenly he's worth double that. 

Doesn't add up.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well don't forget that Geno has a "workout bonus" in his contract, from what I can see.  If he shows up to the offseason workout program (starts Apr 18), he gets a $415,000 "workout bonus".

So I would think that April 18th is the deadline for us to work out a trade.  I doubt we pay Geno $415,000 to show up to a voluntary offseason workout program if we have no intention of him being on the final 53-man roster.  I'm not sure if that money counts against the cap, but if it does, he will DEFINITELY be gone by then unless we plan to keep him until his contract expires after 2016.

The decision on Geno isn't going to come down to $415k - which is relative chump change. It's going to come down to the other QBs in the fold, and/or what anyone is willing to offer in a trade (hint: not much). If they draft a QB high -meaning first or second round- he's gone. If they don't, there's no reason to think he won't make it at least until training camp. You need four arms in camp, and they're not going to cut Geno just to replace him with an UDFA. That would be dumb, no matter how satisfying it might be for an emotional fanbase. 

I do think the Jets will be looking to resign Fitz and draft his eventual replacement this year, too, though. 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

The decision on Geno isn't going to come down to $415k - which is relative chump change. It's going to come down to the other QBs in the fold, and/or what anyone is willing to offer in a trade (hint: not much). If they draft a QB high -meaning first or second round- he's gone. If they don't, there's no reason to think he won't make it at least until training camp. You need four arms in camp, and they're not going to cut Geno just to replace him with an UDFA. That would be dumb, no matter how satisfying it might be for an emotional fanbase. 

I do think the Jets will be looking to resign Fitz and draft his eventual replacement this year, too, though. 

It's only "chump change" if it does not count against the cap; of this I am not certain.  For a team with only $10.8M in cap space, every dollar in the 6-figure range counts.

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1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

Kirk cousins also had the highest passer rating and completion percentage in the nfl, and almost beat Aaron Rodgers and the packers in the playoffs, if it wasn't for his horrendous defense.

 

 

so, people like you, who love fitz when he has only beat 2 or 3 teams with winning records in his 11 year career, and sh*ts the bed against any decent defense that he faces, you want this guy for $18-$20 million what will you say when he is throwing picks like candy next season? 

Cousins is about to get a contract that will make Ryan Tannehill's look good.  He is going to end up being a bigger quagmire for the Redskins than evem RG3

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well don't forget that Geno has a "workout bonus" in his contract, from what I can see.  If he shows up to the offseason workout program (starts Apr 18), he gets a $415,000 "workout bonus".

So I would think that April 18th is the deadline for us to work out a trade.  I doubt we pay Geno $415,000 to show up to a voluntary offseason workout program if we have no intention of him being on the final 53-man roster.  I'm not sure if that money counts against the cap, but if it does, he will DEFINITELY be gone by then unless we plan to keep him until his contract expires after 2016.

 

Ouch.  Yeah your right.   Even worst, it's not a work out bonus, it's a roster bonus.  That means unless it's worded differently then most, it will probably have to be paid on March 9

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10 minutes ago, flgreen said:

 

Ouch.  Yeah your right.   Even worst, it's not a work out bonus, it's a roster bonus.  That means unless it's worded differently then most, it will probably have to be paid on March 9

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/geno-smith/

CURRENT CONTRACT

Geno Smith signed a 4 year, $5,019,603 contract with the New York Jets, including a $2,030,620 signing bonus, $3,068,784 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,254,901. In 2016, Smith will earn a base salary of $675,000 and a workout bonus of $414,491. Smith has a cap hit of $1,597,146 while his dead money value is $507,655.

YEAR   AGE BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS WORKOUT BONUS CAP HIT DEAD CAP
2013 Contract details by year 22 $405,000 $507,655 - $912,655 $3,068,784
2014 Contract details by year 23 $633,164 $507,655 - $1,140,819 $2,107,965
2015 Contract details by year 24 $585,000 $507,655 $276,328 $1,368,983 $1,015,310
2016 Contract details by year 25 $675,000 $507,655 $414,491 $1,597,146 $507,655
2017 Free Agent Year 26 UFA  
Contract Notes:
  • $3.06 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2013-14 base)
  • 2015 Workout Bonus: $276,328 (80% activity)
  • 2016 Workout Bonus: $414,491 (80% activity)
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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's only "chump change" if it does not count against the cap; of this I am not certain.  For a team with only $10.8M in cap space, every dollar in the 6-figure range counts.

It's less than the league's minimum salary. It's nothing. It will have absolutely zero impact on their decision regarding Geno. It's all about maximizing the QB position, nothing about $415k. They'll happily pay that money if they think Geno has the potential to make the roster, or might be worth even a conditional seventh rounder in a trade over the summer. I realize you're in campaign mode here, but this attempt at a point missed. 

Dont worry, like I said, I expect the Jets to take a QB high and lose Geno. It might not be until next preseason, but I don't expect him on the regular season roster. 

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12 minutes ago, hawk said:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/geno-smith/

CURRENT CONTRACT

Geno Smith signed a 4 year, $5,019,603 contract with the New York Jets, including a $2,030,620 signing bonus, $3,068,784 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,254,901. In 2016, Smith will earn a base salary of $675,000 and a workout bonus of $414,491. Smith has a cap hit of $1,597,146 while his dead money value is $507,655.

YEAR   AGE BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS WORKOUT BONUS CAP HIT DEAD CAP
2013 Contract details by year 22 $405,000 $507,655 - $912,655 $3,068,784
2014 Contract details by year 23 $633,164 $507,655 - $1,140,819 $2,107,965
2015 Contract details by year 24 $585,000 $507,655 $276,328 $1,368,983 $1,015,310
2016 Contract details by year 25 $675,000 $507,655 $414,491 $1,597,146 $507,655
2017 Free Agent Year 26 UFA  
Contract Notes:
  • $3.06 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2013-14 base)
  • 2015 Workout Bonus: $276,328 (80% activity)
  • 2016 Workout Bonus: $414,491 (80% activity)

Jason's site has it as a Roster bonus.  For now I'll go with Jason's site.  http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He had a fantastic season.  Does that mean you automatically cough up top 10 QB money?  And in so doing commit to him for at least the next 3 years? 

Fitzpatrick has had 3 straight seasons of top 20 QB play and 2 straight seasons of top 15 QB play.  Yet when people suggest we pay him $9M per season (which would be significantly less than just about every other top 20 QB) everyone loses their minds.  Cousins has had one excellent season, and suddenly he's worth double that. 

Doesn't add up.

I don't have a problem with the jets giving Fitzpatrick $10-$12 million, but I would ave a problem with $18-20 million is waaaaaaaay to much.

 

Also, the Redskins offense was legit, they will be a real contender once they solidify their defense.

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1 hour ago, kelly said:

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4 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Kirk cousins is an elite qb 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs. Miami 16/29 218 Yards 1/1 and 22/37 277 yards 4/0 for a combined 38/66 495 Yards 5/1 average 19/33 247.5 Yards 2.5/.5

Kirk Cousins vs Miami 21/31 196 Yards 1/2

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Philadelphia 35/58 283 Yards 2/3 

Kirk Cousins vs Philadelphia 31/46 290 Yards 1/0 and 31/46 365 Yards 4/0 for a combined 62/92 655 5/0 average 31/46 327.5 Yards 2.5/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs New England 22/39 295 Yards 2/0 and 26/41 296 Yards 3/0 for a combined 48/80 591 Yards 5/0 average 24/40 295.5 2.5/0

Kirk Cousins vs New England 22/40 217 Yards 1/1

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Buffalo 15/34 193 Yards 2/2 and 16/37 181 Yards 2/3 for a combined 31/71 374 Yards 4/5 average 15.5/35.5 187 Yards 2/2.5

Kirk Cousins vs Buffalo 22/28 319 4/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Giants 36/50 390 Yards 2/0

Kirk Cousins vs Giants 30/49 316 yards 1/2 and 20/29 302 yards 1/0 for a combine 50/78 618 2/2 average 25/39 309 1/1

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Dallas 26/39 299 1/1

Kirk Cousins vs Dallas 22/31 219 Yards 1/0 and 12/15 176 Yards 3/0 (not a complete game) for a combined 34/46 395 Yards 4/0 average 17/23 197.5 Yards 2/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs All 214/364 (58.79%) 2,432 Yards 19/10

Kirk Cousins vs All 261/315 (82.86%) 2,400 Yards  17/5

Advantage Kirk

Personally, I don't put much credence into stats, but these are games played against common opponents.  Someone please feel free to double check my numbers.

The only argument at this point should be supporting cast, experience, and future salary, IMO.  

Would either QB have had as much success if they switched teams?  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, hawk said:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs. Miami 16/29 218 Yards 1/1 and 22/37 277 yards 4/0 for a combined 38/66 495 Yards 5/1 average 19/33 247.5 Yards 2.5/.5

Kirk Cousins vs Miami 21/31 196 Yards 1/2

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Philadelphia 35/58 283 Yards 2/3 

Kirk Cousins vs Philadelphia 31/46 290 Yards 1/0 and 31/46 365 Yards 4/0 for a combined 62/92 655 5/0 average 31/46 327.5 Yards 2.5/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs New England 22/39 295 Yards 2/0 and 26/41 296 Yards 3/0 for a combined 48/80 591 Yards 5/0 average 24/40 295.5 2.5/0

Kirk Cousins vs New England 22/40 217 Yards 1/1

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Buffalo 15/34 193 Yards 2/2 and 16/37 181 Yards 2/3 for a combined 31/71 374 Yards 4/5 average 15.5/35.5 187 Yards 2/2.5

Kirk Cousins vs Buffalo 22/28 319 4/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Giants 36/50 390 Yards 2/0

Kirk Cousins vs Giants 30/49 316 yards 1/2 and 20/29 302 yards 1/0 for a combine 50/78 618 2/2 average 25/39 309 1/1

Advantage Fitz

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Dallas 26/39 299 1/1

Kirk Cousins vs Dallas 22/31 219 Yards 1/0 and 12/15 176 Yards 3/0 (not a complete game) for a combined 34/46 395 Yards 4/0 average 17/23 197.5 Yards 2/0

Advantage Kirk

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs All 214/364 (58.79%) 2,432 Yards 19/10

Kirk Cousins vs All 261/315 (82.86%) 2,400 Yards  17/5

Advantage Kirk

Personally, I don't put much credence into stats, but these are games played against common opponents.  Someone please feel free to double check my numbers.

The only argument at this point should be supporting cast, experience, and future salary, IMO.  

Would either QB have had as much success if they switched teams?  

 

 

Kirk would of had a lot of success in a Jets uniform, He would of had the arm to take advantage of when Devin Smith had actually got past guys deep, also Kirk is not only younger but makes smarter decisions with the football, He led the NFL in completion percentage and passer rating. The few games that Kirk had that were bad were in the beginning of the season and that was before Jordan Reed became the beast that he is and before Desean Jackson came back from injury.

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18 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Kirk would of had a lot of success in a Jets uniform, He would of had the arm to take advantage of when Devin Smith had actually got past guys deep, also Kirk is not only younger but makes smarter decisions with the football, He led the NFL in completion percentage and passer rating. The few games that Kirk had that were bad were in the beginning of the season and that was before Jordan Reed became the beast that he is and before Desean Jackson came back from injury.

Jackson makes a lot of mediocre qb's look good.  See Vick and Foles

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