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Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED


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8 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

He's not getting any offers.  Teams do not want him starting.  And I'd guess a couple teams would take him as a backup in the 4mil range.

Mike why can't you be honest about it. There are no starting Qb jobs this year in the NFL. Teams like Oakland, Tenn., Minnesota and others who usually are looking for a starting Qb this year have committed themselves to young recent draft picks. All of the other guys are established veterans on long term deals. Most seasons there are more open jobs. Only due to circumstances Denver (the guy they wanted and developed signed with another team) might have an opening and they inquired with Fitz's agent in March. This could change between now and Sept esp if there are injuries or orgs change their minds on starting Qbs. He's not taking 4 mil or signing to be a backup why should he. It's just silliness on your part. 

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8 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Mike why can't you be honest about it. There are no starting Qb jobs this year in the NFL. Teams like Oakland, Tenn., Minnesota and others who usually are looking for a starting Qb this year have committed themselves to young recent draft picks. All of the other guys are established veterans on long term deals. Most seasons there are more open jobs. Only due to circumstances Denver (the guy they wanted and developed signed with another team) might have an opening and they inquired with Fitz's agent in March. This could change between now and Sept esp if there are injuries or orgs change their minds on starting Qbs. He's not taking 4 mil or signing to be a backup why should. It's just silliness on your part. 

How you view the situation is nuts.  If a good starting QB is available, teams go after him.  If the teams have better QB options, they do not go after the lesser QB.  If all of the teams in the NFL don't go after the QB in question...  

Wait for it...

The QB is not a starter.

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6 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

How you view the situation is nuts.  If a good starting QB is available, teams go after him.  If the teams have better QB options, they do not go after the lesser QB.  If all of the teams in the NFL don't go after the QB in question...  

Wait for it...

The QB is not a starter.

Please where are the openings. Plus who are the franchise Qbs available. Go over every team and they all have starters. Nobody is going to replace them at this time. They are all established. What you and others want is to lose this year. 

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2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Please where are the openings. Plus who are the franchise Qbs available. Go over every team and they all have starters. Nobody is going to replace them at this time. They are all established. What you and others want is to lose this year. 

I'll explain it later.  It's actually pretty simple, but don't feel like typing it up on the phone.

Plus I know you.  It could be a perfect argument and you'll circle back around to one of the other arguments like, he's owed it from last year or something.

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4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I've seen pussies shoot ping pong balls with more force than Fitz's throws.

Funny a guy like Marshall who has battled with Qbs over the years including Cutler who guys like you would call a franchise Qb because he has a cannon for an arm thinks Fitz is a good Qb. And a guy he had a great season with. Wrs like him are prima donnas and don't countenance incompetency. And btw it was Fitz who ran the offense not Marshall. I'll take Marshall and Decker over you and Joe Willy in terms of analyzing our offense and qb. btw why don't you (just for fun) cut another million off of Fitz's offer. It's down to 3 mil now which means he has to take a pay cut. 

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7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I'll explain it later.  It's actually pretty simple, but don't feel like typing it up on the phone.

Plus I know you.  It could be a perfect argument and you'll circle back around to one of the other arguments like, he's owed it from last year or something.

All you have to do is list the teams who have an opening at starting Qb. It's as simple as that. 

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14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

All you have to do is list the teams who have an opening at starting Qb. It's as simple as that. 

Actually it's not quite that simple.  

Well it is, but you won't accept it.  If a good QB was available, roughly half the teams would happily upgrade.  In fact they wouldn't have committed to a QB in most cases until the imaginary good QB had been signed.

All NFL teams have opening day starters because there are no better options.  Including Fitz.  If Fitz was better than any current starting QB, he would be that team's starting QB.

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11 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Funny how you didnt argue with Geno being a pussy...emoji41.pngemoji1303.png

Man do you see what I'm dealing with, with @Rangers9?  Both of you guys are playing some game where ya state something as fact and then base questions/comments on that "fact".  Like "Geno is a pussy" or I think Cutler is a good QB.

Neither is remotely true, but then ya ask questions based on those false assumptions.  Easier to just ignore 'em.  

For future reference, it's better to have conversations w/o that stuff though.

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Man do you see what I'm dealing with, with @Rangers9?  Both of you guys are playing some game where ya state something as fact and then base questions/comments on that "fact".  Like "Geno is a pussy" or I think Cutler is a good QB.

Neither is remotely true, but then ya ask questions based on those false assumptions.  Easier to just ignore 'em.  

For future reference, it's better to have conversations w/o that stuff though.

Whatever, was just trying to have some fun with you

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7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Actually it's not quite that simple.  

Well it is, but you won't accept it.  If a good QB was available, roughly half the teams would happily upgrade.  In fact they wouldn't have committed to a QB in most cases until the imaginary good QB had been signed.

All NFL teams have opening day starters because there are no better options.  Including Fitz.  If Fitz were better than any current starting QB, he would be that team's starting QB.

Teams commit to a Qb and are not on the market to upgrade. They plan and they build their offense around them. And there are no franchise Qbs available. The Giants have Eli, the Ravens have Flacco, KC has Alex Smith. Name one real opening except for Denver. I don't count SF because they aren't going to pay 2 guys to be starters. They are at this point stuck with Kap. There are two arguments on paying a player: like you say demand and like I say pay scale and standards. To me the reason this year for no demand is no jobs. 

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13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Name one real opening except for Denver.

Even if you include Denver, the answer is none, if the question is, "where could Fitz start?"

A slightly better QB?  There'd be one or two spots.

A much better QB?  Probably 10 openings.

Fitz is not in some twilight zone of QBs this year.  That's what it sounds like you're arguing.

Any given year, the best players get jobs.  But you're saying this year, for whatever reason, that's not the case.  Fitz is supposedly better than other starters, but teams just don't want him.  

Nuts man.

He's a top quality backup.  No more, no less.  Though one could argue he is less.  Because many teams would want a young guy to be growing/learning as backup.  Not some waste of space.

Fitz better take this deal immediately or his career could be just about over.

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1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Even if you include Denver, the answer is none, if the question is, "where could Fitz start?"

A slightly better QB?  There'd be one or two spots.

A much better QB?  Probably 10 openings.

Fitz is not in some twilight zone of QBs this year.  That's what it sounds like you're arguing.

Any given year, the best players get jobs.  But you're saying this year, for whatever reason, that's not the case.  Fitz is supposedly better than other starters, but teams just don't want him.  

Nuts man.

He's a top quality backup.  No more, no less.  Though one could argue he is less.  Because many teams would want a young guy to be growing/learning as backup.  Not some waste of space.

Fitz better take this deal immediately or his career could be just about over.

That's not how it works with starting Qbs. There isn't that much change or movement. Fitz isn't going to replace an incumbent franchise Qb or a good young starter on a rookie deal like Carr. Most seasons there are job openings so far this year there aren't. Name them. You aren't going to cut Alex Smith if you can get someone better. That's not how teams operate. Plus these guys are on very expensive long term deals. Or inexpensive rookie deals. So why not just offer him a fair market one year deal. 

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14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

That's not how it works with starting Qbs. There isn't that much change or movement. Fitz isn't going to replace an incumbent franchise Qb or a good young starter on a rookie deal like Carr. Most seasons there are job openings so far this year there aren't. Name them. You aren't going to cut Alex Smith if you can get someone better. That's not how teams operate. Plus these guys are on very expensive long term deals. Or inexpensive rookie deals. So why not just offer him a fair market one year deal. 

fair market for fitz is less than the jets are offering 

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15 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

That's not how it works with starting Qbs. There isn't that much change or movement. Fitz isn't going to replace an incumbent franchise Qb or a good young starter on a rookie deal like Carr. Most seasons there are job openings so far this year there aren't. Name them. You aren't going to cut Alex Smith if you can get someone better. That's not how teams operate. Plus these guys are on very expensive long term deals. Or inexpensive rookie deals. So why not just offer him a fair market one year deal. 

Buffalo

SF (they don't have to keep Kaep)

Cleveland 

Denver

Jets (yet we still haven't signed him)

We've all been over this a bunch of times.  The Jets are already offering Fitz over market value.  Not what Fitz wants the market to be, but actual market value.  If (and hopefully when) the Jets pull the offer, what sort of offers do you think Fitz will get?

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2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Buffalo

SF (they don't have to keep Kaep)

Cleveland 

Denver

Jets (yet we still haven't signed him)

We've all been over this a bunch of times.  The Jets are already offering Fitz over market value.  Not what Fitz wants the market to be, but actual market value.  If (and hopefully when) the Jets pull the offer, what sort of offers do you think Fitz will get?

Tyrod Taylor> Fitztragic and it's not even close.

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5 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Tyrod Taylor> Fitztragic and it's not even close.

You're probably right.  Except here Fitz has Marshall, Decker, Bowles and Gailey.  So he may perform better.  If he went to Buffalo under Rex, it'd be pretty bad.

 

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Of course, it all comes down to Fitz has no leverage.  You have leverage if somebody else wants you.  You have no leverage if nobody else wants you.  Fact is, the Jets have decided that, coming off his last year, having Fitz start is worth perhaps X amount of dollars more than having Geno start, and Fitz can either sign for the Jets' figure or be prepared to watch the season on TV.

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10 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Of course, it all comes down to Fitz has no leverage.  You have leverage if somebody else wants you.  You have no leverage if nobody else wants you.  Fact is, the Jets have decided that, coming off his last year, having Fitz start is worth perhaps X amount of dollars more than having Geno start, and Fitz can either sign for the Jets' figure or be prepared to watch the season on TV.

Fitzpatrick does have significant leverage.  It is called G Smith and the upcoming year being flushed down the toilet if he's the starter.

I call that plenty of leverage.

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1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

Buffalo

SF (they don't have to keep Kaep)

Cleveland 

Denver

Jets (yet we still haven't signed him)

We've all been over this a bunch of times.  The Jets are already offering Fitz over market value.  Not what Fitz wants the market to be, but actual market value.  If (and hopefully when) the Jets pull the offer, what sort of offers do you think Fitz will get?

Denver talked to him in March and reportedly was interested around 1-7. SF did not trade Kap and are paying him on a long term deal. As long as they have that contract on the books they aren't going to pay for another Qb. Cleveland signed RG3 after the Jets passed on him and others so they could re-sign Fitz. And the Bills have Taylor cheap and so far can't sign him. Is that it. There are 28 more teams where's the openings. There are none. If a good starter like Alex Smith was a FA this year he'd have problems finding a job and would probably sit out until the market opened. 

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Reportedly Elway was interested in Fitz after he traded for Mark. Now we're hearing out of Broncos camp that they like Simien last year's 7th round pick. I could see Elway liking Mark's talent but if he watched the film on him then he knows the guy is a turnover machine. He might think they can optimize Mark in a limited offense as a basic game manager. And put the emphasis on their running game and defense. They won last year without good production from the Qb position. But in my opinion they would get better and more consistent production out of Fitz. Ryan extends plays with his legs and although Mark can run its not usually a big part of his game. Turnovers are the biggest part of Mark's game. 

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1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

Buffalo

SF (they don't have to keep Kaep)

Cleveland 

Denver

Jets (yet we still haven't signed him)

We've all been over this a bunch of times.  The Jets are already offering Fitz over market value.  Not what Fitz wants the market to be, but actual market value.  If (and hopefully when) the Jets pull the offer, what sort of offers do you think Fitz will get?

I do not think Cleveland is a fair mention here.  Let's start with if any team has had a more sorry history over the last fifteen or so than the Jets managing their Qb, it is the Browns.   But let's be specific.

The Browns were reasonably happy with McCown, and also had Manziel under a rookie K.  Manziel in fact was still under contract until early March.  But for them the problem was that Manziel was their young Qb potentially a down the road and long term option who imploded.  With McCown still on the team, the concern mostly being his durability, Hue Jackson apparently made the call to roll the dice and hope Griffin can play anywhere closet to where he was as a rookie.  Then they addressed the long term by drafting rookie Cody Kessler.  Cleveland is not realistically in win now mode, either.  Jackson may not want to admit he's rebuilding, but the Browns were 3-13 last year.  Fitzpatrick was not the right fit for them. 

In fact it is possible the Browns play all three of their qb's since they probably do want to see what Griffin can do, with McCown as the more reliable but somewhat fragile (as well) option, with Kessler in development while not likely to be ready.

If Fitzpatrick was say five years younger then Cleveland might have gone after him.  But his timetable and theirs do not fit.

I think the others have already been more than adequately discussed as not realistically looking for a good Qb like Fitz, but who is not the right fit for them.  Denver remains the outlier on that, concededly, but we'll see if Elway did right picking Lynch.

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1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

Fitzpatrick does have significant leverage.  It is called G Smith and the upcoming year being flushed down the toilet if he's the starter.

I call that plenty of leverage.

And the more this goes on, the more it looks like that "leverage" exists only in the minds of Fitzpatrick and his agent.  Everything the Jets have done for this whole process indicates that they preparing to go with Geno if Fitz does not take what they are offering.  Your idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno apparently does not correspond to the Jets' idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno.  Remember, it's not [Fitz] vs [Geno], it's [Fitz] vs [Geno + the better players the Jets can sign with the money they aren't paying Fitz].

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3 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

And the more this goes on, the more it looks like that "leverage" exists only in the minds of Fitzpatrick and his agent.  Everything the Jets have done for this whole process indicates that they preparing to go with Geno if Fitz does not take what they are offering.  Your idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno apparently does not correspond to the Jets' idea of how much more Fitz is worth than Geno.  Remember, it's not [Fitz] vs [Geno], it's [Fitz] vs [Geno + the better players the Jets can sign with the money they aren't paying Fitz].

That leverage by the sounds of it has already paid off to some extent going by the numbers that have been thrown around through this whole process. 

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Nothing has paid off for Fitz until Fitz gets paid, which isn't going to happen if Fitz doesn't go for what the Jets are offering.  The longer the Jets get used to the idea of Geno plus the extra cash for better players, the less leverage Fitz has.

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