Jump to content

Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED


kelly
 Share

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Let's see, so far you have blamed (excuses) the following for the Jets loss in week 17:

-punter shanking a punt in the first 5 minutes of the game.

-the Jets best WR (Marshall) dropping passes.

-Revis getting totally burned by Watkins.

-$hitty game plan by Bowles.

-Mo being invisible.

-Ivory not doing anything.

Even with all that, the Jets would have won the game if it wasn't for their QB throwing 3 INT's in the final 8 minutes.

You really need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I mentioned the Qb and said nothing about Wilk or Ivory. But I did mention a missed FG and not a long one. Of course if you really wanted to smell the coffee what about when Viniateri kicked a FG in the snow to tie that game after Brady really fumbled but they gave him a bogus call and a lucky break. If not for that one less ring and a lot more happiness on our side of the ledger. So special teams plays mean a lot. And if we had a little luck that day we'd have won and no 1000 page argument. Unfortunately some of our fan base sound like you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

he said they hang on him like he was Joe Montana so you won't find any comments likening Fitz to Montana in particular.  

Translation:  No one thinks of Fitzpatrick in any way like Montana, but the use of over-the-top hyperbole by the usual suspects continues to dominate the divisive discourse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Some guys are just too hung on to mediocrity...... 😀

Care to explain how a preference for Fitz being resigned in "being hung up on mediocrity" but favoring Geno Smith starting (no Fitz) is striving for greatness and Super Bowls?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Some guys are just too hung on to mediocrity...... 😀

Hey, I got it. The way some are carrying his water you'd think he was Joe Montana.

No matter, you didn't word it perfectly so it will be taken literally for argumentative purposes. Also it doesn't matter that such hyperbole, and taking liberties to twist comments into ways one never inferred, is totally fine and/or brings about no comment when it's a "their side" position.

It's a natural extension of the "Everybody's sh*t stinks but mine" theorem. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, slats said:

 

Lol! Awesome use of hypocrisy! 

For most people it seems, and you've stated this yourself, that "favoring" Geno Smith basically just means favoring not guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. Very simply, for one season where expectations aren't especially high (most fans aren't thinking playoffs, and only the most delusional mention the Super Bowl), that $15M would be better spent on improving the long term roster than on (perhaps) marginally better QB play in another non-playoff season. 

What are you doing up so early? And on JetNation? Loser. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, slats said:

 

Lol! Awesome use of hypocrisy! 

For most people it seems, and you've stated this yourself, that "favoring" Geno Smith basically just means favoring not guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. Very simply, for one season where expectations aren't especially high (most fans aren't thinking playoffs, and only the most delusional mention the Super Bowl), that $15M would be better spent on improving the long term roster than on (perhaps) marginally better QB play in another non-playoff season. 

Okay. So what are you going to do with the Fitz savings this season to improve the team long term? Who are you signing or trading for that helps this Jets team now and in the future? 

  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, slats said:

 

Lol! Awesome use of hypocrisy! 

No hypocrisy at all, it's rather clearly implied by these posts that alternatives from Fitz are not "mediocrity", and thus  can be only one of two things, striving for better (i.e. greatness) or abandoning all hope.  If money were the issue, "mediocrity" would not be the term used, as the 2016 fiscal impact (the only impact that counts on a deal like Fitz will get) has no effect on us being mediocre or not.

1 hour ago, slats said:

For most people it seems, and you've stated this yourself, that "favoring" Geno Smith basically just means favoring not guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. Very simply, for one season where expectations aren't especially high (most fans aren't thinking playoffs, and only the most delusional mention the Super Bowl), that $15M would be better spent on improving the long term roster than on (perhaps) marginally better QB play in another non-playoff season. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Okay. So what are you going to do with the Fitz savings this season to improve the team long term? Who are you signing or trading for that helps this Jets team now and in the future? 

So there's nobody for the Jets to sign in the future? The team doesn't have the cap room right now to sign Fitz, and must use future cap room to do so. Remind me to bring this up in March of 2017 when you'd like to sign an $18M free agent, or even just tag Mo again, which becomes impossible at worst and horribly messy at best.

Fitzpatrick won't accomplish any of the following goals that should be served when signing a free agent to more than just backup/depth money, on a team without a franchise QB in place:

1. He is good enough (or has enough lightning in a bottle x-factor talent) to reasonably expect him to help the Jets to a superbowl victory as starter right now. 

2. He is a young player, on either side of the ball, who we can reasonably hope to keep as starter for 4+ years under his current contract alone, possibly even more after that. In other words, a building block for the long term.

3. If neither of the above, then he should play on offense, to directly support the on-field development of a young franchise QB, since we do not now have a developed one in place. This will avoid "he never had time to throw" or "he didn't have enough wepponz" type excuses that often follow a young QB's failure. Feeling their existing young QB wan't fully/fairly assessed, a team is therefore unready to cast him aside yet. This then leads to passing up on one who should have been his replacement (e.g. Sanchez/Wilson, Geno/Carr-Bridgewater-Garoppolo).

Fitzpatrick provides none of this.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So there's nobody for the Jets to sign in the future? The team doesn't have the cap room right now to sign Fitz, and must use future cap room to do so. Remind me to bring this up in March of 2017 when you'd like to sign an $18M free agent, or even just tag Mo again, which becomes impossible at worst and horribly messy at best.

Fitzpatrick won't accomplish any of the following goals that should be served when signing a free agent to more than just backup/depth money, on a team without a franchise QB in place:

1. He is good enough (or has enough lightning in a bottle x-factor talent) to reasonably expect him to help the Jets to a superbowl victory as starter right now. 

2. He is a young player, on either side of the ball, who we can reasonably hope to keep as starter for 4+ years under his current contract alone, possibly even more after that. In other words, a building block for the long term.

3. If neither of the above, then he should play on offense, to directly support the on-field development of a young franchise QB, since we do not now have a developed one in place. This will avoid "he never had time to throw" or "he didn't have enough wepponz" type excuses that often follow a young QB's failure. Feeling their existing young QB wan't fully/fairly assessed, they therefore aren't ready to cast him aside yet. This then leads to passing up on a replacement (e.g. Sanchez/Wilson, Geno/Carr-Bridgewater-Garoppolo).

Fitzpatrick provides none of this.

The problem with arguments like this is that we still have to play the 2016 season, and no one employed by the Jets is going to simply "give up" on the year for some amorphous "savings" or "help" in future years that may not effect them.

In a perfect world (from a Franchise perspective), sure, you could do only what was right to build a future champion, hell, a long term champion who could win for years.  In the real world, the season that matters most (and it's not close) is THIS season.  Not next, not four seasons from now.  This season.

So the argument against Fitz isn't bad per say, he's clearly a veteran fill-in and not a future champion.  But he also is universally viewed as giving the Jets the best chance to win in 2016 by anyone objective (you'll notice sports media and other-team-fans is universal in that view, it's only ~30% of Jets Fans who think Geno is better now) and viewed as the superior option for training/mentoring our two young QB's in Petty and Hack (no one except the most delusional sees Geno as a mentor, given his record of abject immaturity).

This is why I think Macc is holding so firm on the deal reportedly offered.  He gets to spread the money over multiple years, and frankly it's not alot of money for a QB over that period, making the fiscal impact and effect on future years cap basically nil.  Macc and Bowles both are clear in wanting Fitz (the opinion that should sway Jets fans frankly) but they alos have to take into consideration the future as well.  But they know (or at least strongly believe) Fitz is the best option for now.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

The problem with arguments like this is that we still have to play the 2016 season, and no one employed by the Jets is going to simply "give up" on the year for some amorphous "savings" or "help" in future years that may not effect them.

In a perfect world (from a Franchise perspective), sure, you could do only what was right to build a future champion, hell, a long term champion who could win for years.  In the real world, the season that matters most (and it's not close) is THIS season.  Not next, not four seasons from now.  This season.

So the argument against Fitz isn't bad per say, he's clearly a veteran fill-in and not a future champion.  But he also is universally viewed as giving the Jets the best chance to win in 2016 by anyone objective (you'll notice sports media and other-team-fans is universal in that view, it's only ~30% of Jets Fans who think Geno is better now) and viewed as the superior option for training/mentoring our two young QB's in Petty and Hack (no one except the most delusional sees Geno as a mentor, given his record of abject immaturity).

This is why I think Macc is holding so firm on the deal reportedly offered.  He gets to spread the money over multiple years, and frankly it's not alot of money for a QB over that period, making the fiscal impact and effect on future years cap basically nil.  Macc and Bowles both are clear in wanting Fitz (the opinion that should sway Jets fans frankly) but they alos have to take into consideration the future as well.  But they know (or at least strongly believe) Fitz is the best option for now.

Whether he is universally seen as giving them the best chance to win doesn't mean he gives them a realistic chance to win. 

I think at least part of the reason Macc has the offer in place is self-serving. I cut this part from my above post because it was already long enough as usual, but was still cached onto my clipboard to paste now:

It is a myopic re-signing, as the future will show if/when he reluctantly returns. He only accomplishes a reason #4, which will ultimately serve the GM alone: it's what the impatient fans, media, and older team veterans want right now. Therefore, if/when the team is unsuccessful without him in the upcoming season (also in the absence of Petty/Hackenberg showing on-field promise), Macc will be on the hot seat. Many will call for him to be fired already if he loses with Geno instead of losing with Fitz.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This is why I think Macc is holding so firm on the deal reportedly offered.  He gets to spread the money over multiple years, and frankly it's not alot of money for a QB over that period, making the fiscal impact and effect on future years cap basically nil.  Macc and Bowles both are clear in wanting Fitz (the opinion that should sway Jets fans frankly) but they alos have to take into consideration the future as well.  But they know (or at least strongly believe) Fitz is the best option for now.

That's part of it. The other part is that Fitzpatrick doesn't bring enough as a starter to be brought back on a one year deal, but does offer something long term as a backup/mentor for a couple years after that. Frankly, I think Sperm hit it on the head when he said the primary reason they even prefer Fitz is that it's more palatable to the fanbase to lose with Fitz than to lose with Geno. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Whether he is universally seen as giving them the best chance to win doesn't mean he gives them a realistic chance to win. 

As you see it.  Your view does not appear to be in alignment with what the professional league watchers think.  It's generally a "Geno Fan" view that despite a great year of improvement last year, a VERY talented roster that only got better, and theoretical "better" play from Geno.....that we're still doomed.  

Again, pre-emptive excuse making is sometimes rather obvious to those of us on the outside.

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is a myopic re-signing, as the future will show if/when he reluctantly returns. He only accomplishes a reason #4, which will ultimately serve the GM alone: it's what the impatient fans, media, and older team veterans want right now.

I beg to differ.  Everyone wants to win now.  Everyone also wants to win later.  Only a very select subset of fans want to abandon hope (and effort) for now, for the dream of some future gain granted because of that sacrifice.  Reality is, losing now does nothing in and of itself to improve us (or our odds of a title) in 2017 or beyond.  

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Therefore, if/when the team is unsuccessful without him in the upcoming season (also in the absence of Petty/Hackenberg showing on-field promise), Macc will be on the hot seat. Many will call for him to be fired already if he loses with Geno instead of losing with Fitz.

By "many" I presume you mean a small minority here at JN and in the hyperventilating cesspool that is the New York sport media and call in shows?

**** um'.  They'll do that regardless, as history shows.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On June 15, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Big Blocker said:

If I understand your post correctly, this is both a ridiculous and off the point post.  NO ONE is saying Fitzpatrick is another Tom Brady. 

So what if there are 25 or more Qb's who are better than or equal to Fitzpatrick?  Which one of them should the Jets sign instead, or are available?

The alternative is G Smith, who blows chunks.  Not Tom Brady.

You did not get the point of my post.. You surely don't need to point out " no one thinks fitz is Tom Brady " fitzranger9 attempted to make the fitzexcuse that fitz is still a FA because there are no vacancies at the qb position this yr.. Like its a hotel at the shore on 4th of July weekend.. My point is at least half the league would love to upgrade at qb, move heaven and earth to do it.. But no one else wants fitz. Nothing to do with " no jobs open at qb this yr"  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

As you see it.  Your view does not appear to be in alignment with what the professional league watchers think.  It's generally a "Geno Fan" view that despite a great year of improvement last year, a VERY talented roster that only got better, and theoretical "better" play from Geno.....that we're still doomed.  

Again, pre-emptive excuse making is sometimes rather obvious to those of us on the outside.

I beg to differ.  Everyone wants to win now.  Everyone also wants to win later.  Only a very select subset of fans want to abandon hope (and effort) for now, for the dream of some future gain granted because of that sacrifice.  Reality is, losing now does nothing in and of itself to improve us (or our odds of a title) in 2017 or beyond.  

By "many" I presume you mean a small minority here at JN and in the hyperventilating cesspool that is the New York sport media and call in shows?

**** um'.  They'll do that regardless, as history shows.  

You may presume to restate what I'm thinking, but as usual you're wrong again. I'm not only referring to a small minority at JN and the local media. No, because I think there would be a higher percentage of people sympathetic to not adding Fitz on JN than across non-JN Jets fans. A higher percentage think more highly of Fitz outside JN than on it. In large part because a higher percentage of people here are educated - even if only minimally - on how the salary cap works and how much space we have now and next year. If for no other reason, because our (I totally agree) hyperventilating cesspool NY sports media - where so many get their only info from - don't ever bring up Fitzpatrick's shortcomings other than occasionally mentioning the end of the 2nd Buffalo game, which is minuscule compared to the fluffy things written in his favor. Nor do they bring up what will happen to the team's future spending ability if he's added. 

So what you said is exactly the position I'm taking: **** em. They are consumed with immediate gratification, like those who cry about any/every high priced FA we don't add in March, while high-5'ing after notable/major signings that led us nowhere. I think Fitz would be one more of that. It is an opinion, just like the opinion that he will suddenly become a consistently good QB against tough competition for the first time in his career, as though this schedule mirrors last year's in any way. Despite a career of obvious failure in doing so, in the distant past and the recent past, you view not bringing him back as tanking the season. The only reason it isn't more obvious is he's faced so few of them of late.

It isn't that losing now improves our chances in the future. That is a simplistic view that once again tries to hyperbolize and distort something with which you disagree in an attempt to win an argument by insult and insinuation rather than by substance. It's not "losing now"; it's that retaining the ability to add or retain better players improves those future chances. Paying Fitzpatrick $18M over the next 2 seasons, assuming the Jets don't further budge up from that, necessarily decreases that ability.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So what you said is exactly the position I'm taking: **** em. They are consumed with immediate gratification

There is no materiel difference in "instant gratification" vs "long term thinking" in the decision of Fitz vs. Geno.  Neither hurts us long term, despite the bloviation of cap hell because of Fitz.  Both are moderate-poor (Fitz) to poor (Geno, till he shows otherwise) options for now.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think Fitz would be one more of that. It is an opinion, just like the opinion that he will suddenly become a consistently good QB against tough competition for the first time in his career, as though this schedule mirrors last year's in any way.

Yet you're on record previously supporting Geno.....and you post above couldn't be any more on-point if it was aimed at Geno, the "will suddenly become a consistently good QB" after being the worst QB int he NFL two years running, then benched for one of the most embarrassing and stupid stories in my life as a Jets Fan.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Despite a career of obvious failure in doing so, in the distant past and the recent past, you view not bringing him back as tanking the season. The only reason it isn't more obvious is he's faced so few of them of late.

I'm simple, I go with the guy who just won 10 games and showed leadership and team chemistry, despite his many MANY flaws, over the kid who was the worst QB in the NFL and a total idiot dipsh*t since the day he landed here.

all the whining and excuse making for Geno is, IMO, just that, excuse making.  Same excuse making we heard about Sanchez.  And Pennington too.  Stubborn fans clinging to baseless hope the uber-bust they invested their hopes and dreams in will prove everyone wrong.  A year form now, if Geno is Geno yet again in 2016, the vast majority of those screaming for Geno and loathing Fitz now will pretend they never liked Geno at all, they were "misunderstood", just like when those same guys loved Sanhchez and though he needed a "fair chance" with "talent around him" too.

This is the ore difference between the Fitz-side and Geno-side.  Fitz supportes know Fitz is moderate-to-bad, but good enough to compete this year and mentor next few.  Geno supporters think the ultra-bust will suddenly show us all how great he is in year 4.  Of course, many of those same Geno Fans are already lining up the excuses for why Geno can't match Fitz last year.  It's just sad.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It isn't that losing now improves our chances in the future. That is a simplistic view that once again tries to hyperbolize and distort something with which you disagree in an attempt to win an argument by insult and insinuation rather than by substance. It's not "losing now"; it's that retaining the ability to add or retain better players improves those future chances. Paying Fitzpatrick $18M over the next 2 seasons, assuming the Jets don't further budge up from that, necessarily decreases that ability.

Lol, if you think Fitz's proposed contract hamstrings us, you simply do not understand how the Cap works.  Sign Fitz or not, his salary will not stop us for signing a single player, now or later.  Lol, seriously, nothing funnier than Fan Cap experts.

Oh, right, you're the one who told me you understand the cap better than Macc!  Forgot all about that.  LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is no materiel difference in "instant gratification" vs "long term thinking" in the decision of Fitz vs. Geno.  Neither hurts us long term, despite the bloviation of cap hell because of Fitz.  Both are moderate-poor (Fitz) to poor (Geno, till he shows otherwise) options for now.

Yet you're on record previously supporting Geno.....and you post above couldn't be any more on-point if it was aimed at Geno, the "will suddenly become a consistently good QB" after being the worst QB int he NFL two years running, then benched for one of the most embarrassing and stupid stories in my life as a Jets Fan.

I'm simple, I go with the guy who just won 10 games and showed leadership and team chemistry, despite his many MANY flaws, over the kid who was the worst QB in the NFL and a total idiot dipsh*t since the day he landed here.

all the whining and excuse making for Geno is, IMO, just that, excuse making.  Same excuse making we heard about Sanchez.  And Pennington too.  Stubborn fans clinging to baseless hope the uber-bust they invested their hopes and dreams in will prove everyone wrong.  A year form now, if Geno is Geno yet again in 2016, the vast majority of those screaming for Geno and loathing Fitz now will pretend they never liked Geno at all, they were "misunderstood", just like when those same guys loved Sanhchez and though he needed a "fair chance" with "talent around him" too.

This is the ore difference between the Fitz-side and Geno-side.  Fitz supportes know Fitz is moderate-to-bad, but good enough to compete this year and mentor next few.  Geno supporters think the ultra-bust will suddenly show us all how great he is in year 4.  Of course, many of those same Geno Fans are already lining up the excuses for why Geno can't match Fitz last year.  It's just sad.

Lol, if you think Fitz's proposed contract hamstrings us, you simply do not understand how the Cap works.  Sign Fitz or not, his salary will not stop us for signing a single player, now or later.  Lol, seriously, nothing funnier than Fan Cap experts.

Oh, right, you're the one who told me you understand the cap better than Macc!  Forgot all about that.  LOL.

Where does the money come from? You cant overpay a 34 year old journeyman QB and then expect there to be no ramifications down the line STOP with the lies. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's never a dull moment around the New York Jets, which means there's plenty to discuss on June 18.

Could the Jets coaching staff be so impressed with Geno's progress that they are willing to let Fitz walk? #jetsmail

@RichCimini: No -- not yet anyway. I think Geno Smith has closed the gap to some degree, but the Jets wouldn't be offering Ryan Fitzpatrick $15 million in guarantees if they felt comfortable with Smith as the starter. Despite an encouraging spring by Smith, the Jets have made it abundantly clear they still want Fitzpatrick to be the guy. That's a telling commentary. You can question their negotiating strategy -- their position probably has given more leverage to Fitzpatrick -- but they probably figure, "Why try to muddle the obvious?"

Todd Bowles said Smith is "light years" ahead of last year, which certainly makes you wonder what they really thought about him last year. We all know he was the presumptive starter before his jaw was broken, but it sure sounds like he was on a short leash.Quarterbacks coach Kevin Patullo said the other day, "He's playing faster, he's thinking faster, it's going smoother for him." The media were allowed to watch six of the 13 offseason practices, and I can tell you Smith seemed more decisive than last year. For the most part, the ball came out on time because he processed things quicker than in the past. That's always been his bugaboo, holding the ball too long and lacking pocket presence. He appeared to be better in those areas this spring, but it's hard to evaluate those things when there's no contact. Every quarterback has pocket presence until he realizes there's a chance he may get blasted in the ribs.

I don't have the exact stats (a shocker, I know), but I'm fairly certain Smith threw an interception in each practice that was open to the media -- or most of them, anyway. That didn't get a whole lot of play in the media because it didn't fit the convenient narrative of The New Geno, but suffice it to say he wasn't close to flawless. To be fair, he was throwing to a patchwork receiving corps at times.One thing I will say about Geno: If he's the quarterback, the Jets will have a better deep passing attack than with Fitzpatrick, who completed only 17 of 79 passes that traveled at least 20 yards in the air. That was the second-worst percentage in the NFL (21.5), ahead of only Marcus Mariota (16.7), per ESPN Stats & Information.

But Fitzpatrick is better than Smith in a number of areas (game management, reading defenses, etc.), and that's why the Jets still want him to be their starter. But as Bowles noted the other day, there will come a point where they have to move on from Fitzpatrick as the starter if he's not signing. I don't see that point occurring before the first preseason game.

>    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/61016/could-jets-drop-ryan-fitzpatrick-and-hand-qb-job-to-improved-geno-smith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So there's nobody for the Jets to sign in the future? The team doesn't have the cap room right now to sign Fitz, and must use future cap room to do so. Remind me to bring this up in March of 2017 when you'd like to sign an $18M free agent, or even just tag Mo again, which becomes impossible at worst and horribly messy at best.

Fitzpatrick won't accomplish any of the following goals that should be served when signing a free agent to more than just backup/depth money, on a team without a franchise QB in place:

1. He is good enough (or has enough lightning in a bottle x-factor talent) to reasonably expect him to help the Jets to a superbowl victory as starter right now. 

2. He is a young player, on either side of the ball, who we can reasonably hope to keep as starter for 4+ years under his current contract alone, possibly even more after that. In other words, a building block for the long term.

3. If neither of the above, then he should play on offense, to directly support the on-field development of a young franchise QB, since we do not now have a developed one in place. This will avoid "he never had time to throw" or "he didn't have enough wepponz" type excuses that often follow a young QB's failure. Feeling their existing young QB wan't fully/fairly assessed, a team is therefore unready to cast him aside yet. This then leads to passing up on one who should have been his replacement (e.g. Sanchez/Wilson, Geno/Carr-Bridgewater-Garoppolo).

Fitzpatrick provides none of this.

Again. Who? I want names. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Where does the money come from? You cant overpay a 34 year old journeyman QB and then expect there to be no ramifications down the line STOP with the lies. 

Yes, cutting or reneg. a few overpriced old veterans is such a shame.  However can we get by with the Breno Giacomini's of the world, eh?

Teams somehow manage it every year, and the cap rises every year.  Most teams pay their QB's (as a group) far more than we're paying.  

Somehow, I think they can figure it out.  If they want him, that is...

The only lies are the false narratives along the lines of "Fitz will cost us Mo" and "Geno hasn't been given a fair chance" and the like.  

If anyone cost us Mo, it's Revis.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

The problem with arguments like this is that we still have to play the 2016 season, and no one employed by the Jets is going to simply "give up" on the year for some amorphous "savings" or "help" in future years that may not effect them.

In a perfect world (from a Franchise perspective), sure, you could do only what was right to build a future champion, hell, a long term champion who could win for years.  In the real world, the season that matters most (and it's not close) is THIS season.  Not next, not four seasons from now.  This season.

So the argument against Fitz isn't bad per say, he's clearly a veteran fill-in and not a future champion.  But he also is universally viewed as giving the Jets the best chance to win in 2016 by anyone objective (you'll notice sports media and other-team-fans is universal in that view, it's only ~30% of Jets Fans who think Geno is better now) and viewed as the superior option for training/mentoring our two young QB's in Petty and Hack (no one except the most delusional sees Geno as a mentor, given his record of abject immaturity).

This is why I think Macc is holding so firm on the deal reportedly offered.  He gets to spread the money over multiple years, and frankly it's not alot of money for a QB over that period, making the fiscal impact and effect on future years cap basically nil.  Macc and Bowles both are clear in wanting Fitz (the opinion that should sway Jets fans frankly) but they alos have to take into consideration the future as well.  But they know (or at least strongly believe) Fitz is the best option for now.

If he's not going to contribute to building a champion then the "best chance to win in 2016" is nonsensical, along with Jim Carrey's "so you're telling me there's a chance?" line.

He either makes them superbowl contenders as a starter or he doesn't. If not, then offer him a contract as a backup to someone who can, and it's fine if he fills in for that person in the meantime.

I really don't care what sports media and fans "universally" think.  They're "universally" wrong if they think Fitzpatrick makes us contenders. Even if I accepted the idea that he makes the Jets 4 games better than Smith or whomever, which I don't, it will still not be good enough. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Names of players the Jets are signing with that Fitzsavings they get to help win the Super Bowl. That was my original question to Slats. 

The Jets have a contract on the table guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. 

$15M against this year's cap buys the Jets Ryan Clady, James Carpenter, Matt Forte, Bilal Powell, Khiry Robinson, and Bruce Carter. $15M is a lot of money, even in the NFL. I'm guessing that if the Jets don't sign Fitzpatrick, they can sign six other talented players over the period of time Fitz would've been here with the money they planned to borrow to pay for him. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have a contract on the table guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. 

$15M against this year's cap buys the Jets Ryan Clady, James Carpenter, Matt Forte, Bilal Powell, Khiry Robinson, and Bruce Carter. $15M is a lot of money, even in the NFL. I'm guessing that if the Jets don't sign Fitzpatrick, they can sign six other talented players over the period of time Fitz would've been here with the money they planned to borrow to pay for him. 

Yep and finish 6-10 with scrub Smith starting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Powpow said:

Yep and finish 6-10 with scrub Smith starting. 

As opposed to 7-9 with Fitz under center? Maybe? Because I really don't buy into this idea that the Jets are two completely different teams with Geno or Fitz at QB. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have a contract on the table guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. 

$15M against this year's cap buys the Jets Ryan Clady, James Carpenter, Matt Forte, Bilal Powell, Khiry Robinson, and Bruce Carter. $15M is a lot of money, even in the NFL. I'm guessing that if the Jets don't sign Fitzpatrick, they can sign six other talented players over the period of time Fitz would've been here with the money they planned to borrow to pay for him. 

These guys are already signed. Who would we have to cut or not sign to keep Fitz. And since when does a team not budget themselves for the Qb position. I take a Qb over backup personnel. The Jets going into 2016 are a pretty good team. And btw that 15 mil is spread over a couple of years. It's part of a 3 year contract. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have a contract on the table guaranteeing Ryan Fitzpatrick $15M. 

$15M against this year's cap buys the Jets Ryan Clady, James Carpenter, Matt Forte, Bilal Powell, Khiry Robinson, and Bruce Carter. $15M is a lot of money, even in the NFL. I'm guessing that if the Jets don't sign Fitzpatrick, they can sign six other talented players over the period of time Fitz would've been here with the money they planned to borrow to pay for him. 

It wouldn't be 15 million against this year's cap. And none of those guys is the difference between the Jets last year and the Jets making it to the Super Bowl. They're all also under contract.

I want to know the names of these guys they can bring in next season with no Fitzmoney to be burdened with, in theory, that will put the Jets above and beyond. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Yes, cutting or reneg. a few overpriced old veterans is such a shame.  However can we get by with the Breno Giacomini's of the world, eh?

Teams somehow manage it every year, and the cap rises every year.  Most teams pay their QB's (as a group) far more than we're paying.  

Somehow, I think they can figure it out.  If they want him, that is...

The only lies are the false narratives along the lines of "Fitz will cost us Mo" and "Geno hasn't been given a fair chance" and the like.  

If anyone cost us Mo, it's Revis.  

A few older veterans who contribute more than a POS QB who has never won nothing in his NFL career SIGN ME UP ...................NOT

  • Thumb Down 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

These guys are already signed. Who would we have to cut or not sign to keep Fitz. And since when does a team not budget themselves for the Qb position. I take a Qb over backup personnel. The Jets going into 2016 are a pretty good team. 

I just listed three starters and three reserves, all under contract for Fitzpatrick money. I don't have a crystal ball or a scouting department here on my couch to determine who precisely would have to be cut if they sign Fitzpatrick, or who precisely they might be able to sign in the future if they don't, but the six players I listed have a lot more value to the team than Ryan Fitzpatrick adds over the already under contract Geno Smith this year. And if Geno is the bridge to Hackenberg or Petty next and they have $15-18M available to sign more free agents that they wouldn't've had if Fitz signed, the team will be that same $15-18M better next year. As demonstrated, that's a few starters, and a few reserves. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...