Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[PatsFanTX]

I'm talking 2016 only and have been saying this for the past 1000 pages. He's not our future Qb it's possible Hack is. But I think with him we can be competitive in 2016. Because we have a good team and last year he ran our best offense in years. If you and your buds don't want to give him any credit ok but if something works you don't fix it. So I'd give him a one year deal and go for it this year. I think he'll take below 12 mil. Personally I think he deserves it but with no indentured servitude clauses tacked on. Let the guy try to get his true market in 2017 on his own. It's the fair thing to do. 

Only fair thing to do?

Why would you ever want to pay a NFL player, especially a QB, on past performance when they have absolutely no upside whatsoever?

[Rangers9]

22 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Only fair thing to do?

Why would you ever want to pay a NFL player, especially a QB, on past performance when they have absolutely no upside whatsoever?

Of course if we were good you'd have to get new material. Actually we were last year but not coming from you since its always same old same old. And then there are a few masochists here who in a sickening way enjoy your insults. 

[PatsFanTX]

Of course if we were good you'd have to get new material. Actually we were last year but not coming from you since its always same old same old. And then there are a few masochists here who in a sickening way enjoy your insults. 

First off, I never insult anyone. All I do is provide valuable, objective football knowledge to the message board.

And you never answered my question: why would you pay an 11-year JAG QB on past performance when he has no upside whatsoever?

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

First off, I never insult anyone. All I do is provide valuable, objective football knowledge to the message board.

And you never answered my question: why would you pay an 11-year JAG QB on past performance when he has no upside whatsoever?

I'm glad you think so. The info you provide is half baked and incomplete. You're a legend in your own mind. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

5 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

First off, I never insult anyone. All I do is provide valuable, objective football knowledge to the message board.

And you never answered my question: why would you pay an 11-year JAG QB on past performance when he has no upside whatsoever?

He set the franchise mark for TD passes in his first year with the team and he has no upside whatsoever? How absurd is that assertion?

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

He set the franchise mark for TD passes in his first year with the team and he has no upside whatsoever? How absurd is that assertion?

Not to agree in any way shape or form with TX but QB hasnt really been a position that we have excelled at over the years. 

[PatsFanTX]

He set the franchise mark for TD passes in his first year with the team and he has no upside whatsoever? How absurd is that assertion?

You are either:

1) Blind

2) Naive

3) Stupid

I'm giving you the benefit of doubt, so which one is it?

[UpstateJetsGuru]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

You are either:

1) Blind

2) Naive

3) Stupid

I'm giving you the benefit of doubt, so which one is it?

Why do I even bother...grow the hell up.

[PatsFanTX]

Why do I even bother...grow the hell up.

I lived upstate NY for 3 years, absolutely loved it.

Met some of the dumbest people in my lifetime up there.

[Mike135]

16 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

I lived upstate NY for 3 years, absolutely loved it.

Met some of the dumbest people in my lifetime up there.

It's true.  The further North ya go from NYC area, the dumber people get.  Explains NE and especially Maine.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/19/2016 at 1:36 PM, Warfish said:

I'm wrong.  Macc is wrong.  Bowles is wrong.  Jets cap management is wrong.  Pro Football media is wrong.  Most fans are wrong.

But you're right.

We get it.

The reported (stress reported, not actual) is 3 years, 24 million.  And we have no idea how it would be structured.  

You don't know either of those things.  You presume them.

My friend, I'm far from angry, be assured.  If anything, posts like the one above, where you liken the intricacies, difficulties and detail of a complex financial/contract management function of an organization to "just add and subtract", just makes me laugh.  

Going to go out on a limb and bet you don't even work with numbers for a living, do you?  Accountant, financial manager?  No, I'd wager not.

Funny, that's all I've read for you of late, arguments that boil down to "I, Sperm, know more than everyone else and everyone else is wrong".

Seems odd to want to start a guy you don't believe in.  Sounds alot like giving up on the season before the first snap is taken.  

That's just sad.

Right, your opinions:  relevant.  Others, wrong and irrelevant.  We get it Sperm, really.

Yes, so much hypocrisy.  A veritable lake of it.  You should remind me how wrong everyone other than you is, that's sure to fix it.

More straw man arguments. I don't know why you think understanding how the cap works requires some advanced degree in accounting or working as one. If you believe this, you must also believe Maccagnan was wholly unqualified for the job since he was merely in Houston's scouting department before this. 

There is no great mystery to the NFL salary cap that only insiders can comprehend.  It is not as complicated as you make it out to be. 

True it is only a leak, but going on that it is 3 years $24M. We very likely do have an idea of how it is structured. $6M signing bonus and $6M salaries in each of the 3 years (though more is available through undisclosed incentives). $15M is guaranteed (the first $12M plus half the initial $6M base for 2017). 

Should he last the year as the starter with no one else challenging his job, the team won't cut him. Should he last the year and get demoted at some point, it's likely it would still only save $3M to cut since $3M is guaranteed, so they won't cut him. Therefore while $15M is guaranteed, in practical terms it's likely at least $18M. The only other likely way it's less is if the team doesn't want him back in 2017 for any reason (including hitting incentives that price him out of a roster spot). In that case, it's even worse, because it means he ended up costing $15M for just 1 season. 

And no, the Jets will not win a Super Bowl with Ryan Fitzpatrick starting against actual formidable opposition. He isn't a good enough QB.

The hypocrisy is the ridiculous way 2015 losses credited to Fitzpatrick are quickly corrected as "team losses" while those same people are remarkably silent when posters like you credit him with wins. Your reply above suggests you may be unfamiliar with the word's meaning.

[joewilly12]

16 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

I lived upstate NY for 3 years, absolutely loved it.

Met some of the dumbest people in my lifetime up there.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

More strong man arguments.

Straw Man arguments is the phrase you're looking for.

Quote

I don't know why you think understanding how the cap works requires some advanced degree in accounting or working as one.

I think the Jets Front Office staff knows the cap and how to manage it, and you don't.  At all.  In even the most cursory way. 

But if it makes you feel better to believe signing Fitz will cripple us for three years (or more), by all means, enjoy the fantasy.  If Geno plays like Geno has played before, I am sure it will be comforting to know you saved the future of the Jets by educating the Jets Front Office about the danger of a Fitz contract.

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Your reply above suggests you may be unfamiliar with the word's meaning.

Like "Straw man" perhaps?

The hypocrisy of some generic unnamed "others" is of little interest to me.  And the only win or loss I care to assign blame or credit for is the last one, which was one of the best examples of a "total team loss" as I've seen in years.  I leave it to you to decide who should get credit for the other games, given your vast and superior knowledge of being an NFL GM (which as you say, so simple even a Sperm man can do it).

[Flushing Roots]

Loved Fitz last year.  Need him to show us some love here pretty quick now.

If not, I'm fine with a QB competition and I'm rooting for Hackenberg.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

I lived upstate NY for 3 years, absolutely loved it.

Met some of the dumbest people in my lifetime up there.

Didn't you say in your last post you never insult anyone?

[Jetsplayer21]

I think Mac should pull the offer.. Tell fitz to go find another offer for jets to beat.. He would only be offered backup deals.. And yet by far the best backup deal he would get is right here.. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Straw Man arguments is the phrase you're looking for.

I think the Jets Front Office staff knows the cap and how to manage it, and you don't.  At all.  In even the most cursory way. 

But if it makes you feel better to believe signing Fitz will cripple us for three years (or more), by all means, enjoy the fantasy.  If Geno plays like Geno has played before, I am sure it will be comforting to know you saved the future of the Jets by educating the Jets Front Office about the danger of a Fitz contract.

Like "Straw man" perhaps?

The hypocrisy of some generic unnamed "others" is of little interest to me.  And the only win or loss I care to assign blame or credit for is the last one, which was one of the best examples of a "total team loss" as I've seen in years.  I leave it to you to decide who should get credit for the other games, given your vast and superior knowledge of being an NFL GM (which as you say, so simple even a Sperm man can do it).

Auto correct. I know what a straw man argument is.

I didn't say or suggest they didn't know how to manage it. Nor did I say half the things you're ascribing to me.

You like putting words into peoples' mouths and then arguing against them. I suppose it makes it easier to frame an argument, since you do it constantly. For something more compelling, try sticking with my own words instead of repeatedly changing them with inaccurate paraphrases designed to exaggerate and distort. 

The last paragraph is otherwise hilarious. You blankety assigned Fitzpatrick 10 wins just before, but the last loss, in contrast, is a team loss. Thank you for proving my point. 

[Rangers9]

The fans know the basics of the salary cap but not the intricacies. They hire accountants and lawyers and cap specialists who've worked with it for years. And on NFL rules changes regular fans are not always up to snuff on these and internal and administrative procedures. So on the surface you would think that with only 3 mil left in terms of cap space and still not signing Lee where do the Jets get the money for Fitz. Well, they can figure it out and do it in a sensible way. And this includes just giving him a one year deal. There's many ways to skin a "cap." You can't hold back on your future if your future is now. I, for one, I'm very optimistic for 2016. One of my father's day gifts was duckets for Jets vs Seattle a game we can win. 

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I think Mac should pull the offer.. Tell fitz to go find another offer for jets to beat.. He would only be offered backup deals.. And yet by far the best backup deal he would get is right here.. 

  He's started 105 games in his career. So how's that being a backup. He certainly didn't play like one last year. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Auto correct. I know what a straw man argument is.

I'll take your word on that.

Quote

I didn't say or suggest they didn't know how to manage it. Nor did I say half the things you're ascribing to me.

It never ceases to be a source of mirth to me how often people say over-the-top things, then when called on it attempt to claim "I didn't say that, hurfabluf!"  

Quote

You like putting words into peoples' mouths and then arguing against them.

I have no need to create anything for me to expose the laughable nature of your braggadocio over your claimed cap and contract management skills. 

Quote

The last paragraph is otherwise hilarious. You blankety assigned Fitzpatrick 10 wins just before, but the last loss, in contrast, is a team loss. Thank you for proving my point. 

Once again, a lack of understanding as to what words mean.  There is no hypocricy here.  The proper word for what you mean would be "contradictory", but that's not the case either:

Ryan Fitzpatrick won 10 games, as in he started and played as the QB in ten games and stats sites credit him as being 10-5 last year.  Only the QB is given a "record" like a pitcher by statistics sites.  This statement does not, however, imply anything but the fact that he was the credited starting QB for 10 wins in 2015.  Any implication that it limits overall credit (or blame) to ONLY Fitzpatrick exclusively is purely in your mind, an agenda-driven creation intended to attempt to paint Fitz as being somehow given more credit than warranted (as you see it).  if one wished to give Fitz all the credit, they would write "Fitz alone won 10 games", which clearly would delineate that Fitrz was being the credit to the exclusion of other contributors.

My own statements on Fitz have been very, very clear: he is (and was) a generally average, journeyman, functional QB last year, who had a very good year statistically (especially in turnovers), and materially contributed to our 10 wins (and to our 6 loses as well).  His limitations are obvious to any objective observer.  Given our poor starting point at QB prior (the worst QB play in the NFL two years running in 2013 and 2014), average-level play looked like a hell of an upgrade.

As to the last game, I continue to stand by what I've said since the moment the game ended, it remains one of the best examples of a "total team loss" as I've ever witnessed.  As Fitz was part of the aforementioned "team" portion, and a key part at that, he takes his due amount of criticism and blame for the loss.  At no point would or have I ever attempted to say he (Fitz) bore no responsibility of blame fo rthe loss.  I've simply said the truth, the loss is not "all on Fitz" as the narrative here amongst a certain subset seems to be.

[Jetsplayer21]

22 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

  He's started 105 games in his career. So how's that being a backup. He certainly didn't play like one last year. 

Backups are going to play when the starters go down.. Starting qbs easily get hurt, even in the locker room.. 

[Big Blocker]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 8:29 AM, Jetsplayer21 said:

You did not get the point of my post.. You surely don't need to point out " no one thinks fitz is Tom Brady " fitzranger9 attempted to make the fitzexcuse that fitz is still a FA because there are no vacancies at the qb position this yr.. Like its a hotel at the shore on 4th of July weekend.. My point is at least half the league would love to upgrade at qb, move heaven and earth to do it.. But no one else wants fitz. Nothing to do with " no jobs open at qb this yr"  

We are Jets fans.  The main point here is who is better than Fitzpatrick and available, the apparent alternative being the awful G Smith. 

"would love to" is not a helpful metric.  Name 16 teams that do not have their starting Qb under contract?

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Backups are going to play when the starters go down.. Starting qbs easily get hurt, even in the locker room.. 

Here are his stats including starts. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm He won starting jobs in pre-season with 3 or 4 teams and started at least 9 games with Cincy, Buff, Tenn and Houston and us. So lets be real. You don't start 105 because of just injuries. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

We are Jets fans.  The main point here is who is better than Fitzpatrick and available, the apparent alternative being the awful G Smith. 

"would love to" is not a helpful metric.  Name 16 teams that do not have their starting Qb under contract?

Only according to you and a few other fitz lovers believe jets aren't prepared to go with geno as the starter.. The jets aren't stupid.. This isn't MT days when you give a raise to a sh*tty qb simply because you hurt his feelings flirting with Peyton manning.. Which goes to prove mr fitzranger the jets were prepared to upgrade over a qb who was under contract..

 Mac isn't going to overpay for a journeyman 

   

[Big Blocker]

12 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Only according to you and a few other fitz lovers believe jets aren't prepared to go with geno as the starter.. The jets aren't stupid.. This isn't MT days when you give a raise to a sh*tty qb simply because you hurt his feelings flirting with Peyton manning.. Which goes to prove mr fitzranger the jets were prepared to upgrade over a qb who was under contract..

 Mac isn't going to overpay for a journeyman 

   

First of all the Jets have done plenty of stupid things.  And I am only a Fitz lover in the sense that I think he is better than Geno Smith. 

Now, try and make an argument how my previous post was wrong, or I suggest you stfu.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Here are his stats including starts. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm He won starting jobs in pre-season with 3 or 4 teams and started at least 9 games with Cincy, Buff, Tenn and Houston and us. So lets be real. You don't start 105 because of just injuries. 

And yet, in his 11 year career, this is only the second time he's being offered a contract to start. It's the first day of summer, and there's only one team that's interested in him as a starter, and that team has a completely unfair, insulting, indentured servant, $8M/year offer on the table. 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

And yet, in his 11 year career, this is only the second time he's being offered a contract to start. It's the first day of summer, and there's only one team that's interested in him as a starter, and that team has a completely unfair, insulting, indentured servant, $8M/year offer on the table. 

Yeah but over the last 11 years, there haven't been many starting QB positions available.  So it's not his fault.  

If you think there have been opportunities, please list what teams/years didn't have a starting QB under contract.  

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Yeah but over the last 11 years, there haven't been many starting QB positions available.  So it's not his fault.  

If you think there have been opportunities, please list what teams/years didn't have a starting QB under contract.  

 105 starts. But maybe all in great weather. So they don't count. I guess we can say then that Marino was lucky because he played in Miami. Nobody is saying the guy is great. The guy is experienced and good which is good enough for the 2016 Jets to make a run at the playoffs. He is the best available Qb and rated the no. 1 available free agent still on the market.  Of course some of our wonderful fans say we're going to lose anyways.

[Rangers9]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

And yet, in his 11 year career, this is only the second time he's being offered a contract to start. It's the first day of summer, and there's only one team that's interested in him as a starter, and that team has a completely unfair, insulting, indentured servant, $8M/year offer on the table. 

No, he was named starter out of training camp at Houston in 2014. And was starter with Buff for several seasons. 

[kelly]

"9 veteran QBs for Jets to consider if Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't back"

>    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/06/8_veteran_qbs_for_jets_to_consider_if_ryan_fitzpat.html#0

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 ...The guy is experienced and good...

Well I agree with one of your two descriptions of Fitz.

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, kelly said:

"9 veteran QBs for Jets to consider if Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't back"

>    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/06/8_veteran_qbs_for_jets_to_consider_if_ryan_fitzpat.html#0

This is not exactly an exhilarating list. I would probably just stay with our 3 but if they sign one I'd take Tavaris Jackson. It's a real step down from Fitz. It's stupid.

[Jetsplayer21]

15 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

First of all the Jets have done plenty of stupid things.  And I am only a Fitz lover in the sense that I think he is better than Geno Smith. 

Now, try and make an argument how my previous post was wrong, or I suggest you stfu.

Lol.. Is it that time of the month little blocker? It's useless arguing with a fitz lover.. It's amazing how stupid The fitz lovers are.. Can't see why fitz did decent last yr.. Or cant comprehend most qbs don't come out of college and light it up in yr one and two.. Especially those not picked top of the draft, that had half the Weapons fitz had.. Marty moron instead of chan gailey.. And try to argue fitz didn't lay a huge egg playing absolutely horrible in the biggest game jets had in a few yrs.. But still, I'm for bringing him back because petty isn't ready for #2.. But jets would be stupid to overpay for a guy nobody else wants.. That is the point.. 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, kelly said:

"9 veteran QBs for Jets to consider if Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't back"

>    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/06/8_veteran_qbs_for_jets_to_consider_if_ryan_fitzpat.html#0

While clicking through the options, an ad (pic) of Dolly Parton showed up.  Thought that was pretty funny until Tebow showed up.  That was just hilarious.

As much as I think it's dumb to pay Fitz, I'd rather pay him 30mil per year than bring in Tebow.  Seriously.  Don't do it Macc.

[slats]

15 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

No, he was named starter out of training camp at Houston in 2014. And was starter with Buff for several seasons. 

Did he sign a contract to be the starter? If so, the Jets should pay him what Houston paid him.