Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Rangers9]

If Denver trades for Kap this leaves an opening with the 49ers. Even though most people think they will draft a Qb this year. Would they go with Gabbert or try to upgrade. A lot of people think that Chip would bring in Mark. I could also see them trying to sign Fitz because he could be a good fit for that offense. If not Denver or SF or LA then who. Also maybe Nick Foles would be available and he's better than than some of these career backups like Matt Moore on the open market right now.

[Powpow]

37 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The Chase Daniel deal can be worth as much as 36 million over 3 years. We don't know what kind of incentives the Fitz offer has bundled into it. 

My bet is that Fitz wants more guaranteed money, as he should in his position, but the Jets probably designed the contract to protect themselves in case Petty or Geno simply deserve to play more than Fitz this year and/or more specifically next year.

You don't want to give Fitz guaranteed starter money for future seasons, when your plan all along is to have a new, young QB ready to take the reigns.

Exactly. This is what's holding this up.  Remember, Fitz came on here first to be our back up QB to Geno, who was anointed the starter simply because there were no other options.  The Jets were lucky to have a fall back guy having a sensational, unexpected season like that.  Offer Fitz a few years at 7-10 million. He can start the next year or two or back up Petty or Paxton depending on how they progress.  Fitz has never been seen as the savior and isn't seen as the long term answer.  Mac is still looking for his franchise QB.  That could be Paxton in 2016 draft or maybe Petty.  Regardless, its apparent he's not putting all his eggs in Fitzy's basket.      

[JETSfaninNE]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So you want to start Geno Smith in 2016 then?

I am one of the biggest Geno haters and yes if he won the job in TC I would ride Geno for a year, if he has a good but not great year, I option him and try and trade him since he might redeem some value.  Personally I want Petty to step in this year, I don't think QBs need 3 years on the bench, 1-2 years yes, to help slow the game down and do a ton of film study, but if Petty is going to be the real deal he needs to step up this year and take the job.  

On a side note, I encourage anyone that really wants to see what Gailey did FOR Fitz this year to read the following series that a professional did on reddit indicating that Fitz's performance is more the sum of the talent around him and the scheme that Gailey ran.  I really don't see Gailey not getting the best performance out of Geno or Petty or any other QB for that matter.  He makes it so simple for QBs that can't read the entire field.

Week by week stats dump and film breakdown of Fitz performance at the below link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/wiki/statsdump

[Maxman]

39 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

You have to have a QB and right now Denver doesn't, so why not go after the best FA QB available in Fitzpatrick? I know Mac's philosophy is to build through the draft and never overpay for players. I think Fitzpatrick is a goner, because Denver is far more desperate and will blow up their salary cap because they basically have to. They will give Fitzy the money they offered Osweiler which is way more than he is worth and way more than the Jets will pay. I say go after Matt Moore and let him Geno and Petty all compete for the job.

I don't think Elway wants Fitzpatrick. He might be in the camp that feels you can't win a Super Bowl with him.

[Warfish]

59 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The more I think about it, what's the worst that can happen? We go 4-12, get a high draft pick and continue the search. Mac and Bowles arent going to be fired after this year

Well, yes.  That's about right.  We could lose most of our games, pressure would begin to build on Mac/Bowles, we would lose another year of wear and tear on our best players (a number of whom are getting older), and we would "know" what (IMO) we should already know, that Geno Smith is not the guy.

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Personally I want Petty to step in this year, I don't think QBs need 3 years on the bench, 1-2 years yes, to help slow the game down and do a ton of film study, but if Petty is going to be the real deal he needs to step up this year and take the job.  

This is Petty's second year, and he came from a system completely useless to being an NFL QB.

If ever a QB needed the 2 in your "1-2 years yes", it's Petty.

It's nothing to do with "stepping up" or manning up or any such outdated conceptual sillyness.  It's how you protect and develop a QB to be a success in the NFL.  Rule #1, make them earn it, when they're ready.  Rule #2, don;t throw them to the wolves to be consumed before they're ready.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, yes.  That's about right.  We could lose most of our games, pressure would begin to build on Mac/Bowles, we would lose another year of wear and tear on our best players (a number of whom are getting older), and we would "know" what (IMO) we should already know, that Geno Smith is not the guy.

The best players are eventually going to be replaced. We are not locked in full gear with a lot of them.
We get a lot of comp picks next year and the rebuilding process will continue. I see nothing wrong with that. This is a rebuilding team, disguised as a win now team to buy credibility.

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Gee I've only said it about 50x.

$8M/year x 3 years with 2 years ($16M) guaranteed. Though I prefer less/year and 1.5 years ($12M) guaranteed, the $16M guarantee would be the c-ya line in the sand.

If some nutbag GM wants to pay him more than $16M for just the 2016 season alone, or if Elway does because he legitimately has a SB-ready team around the QB position, any such GM is welcome to him.

The goal is to get better QB play than Fitz; not to be saddled by his new contract and tread water at the position at 5x the amount as last year. We're not a superbowl team with Fitz anyway, and paying him that much provides that much less ability to put a superbowl team around him.

Gee forgive me for not reading the entire 500,000 word-a-day catalogue of Sperm Edwards. Sheesh. So sorry that I missed it and made you repeat yourself.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, yes.  That's about right.  We could lose most of our games, pressure would begin to build on Mac/Bowles, we would lose another year of wear and tear on our best players (a number of whom are getting older), and we would "know" what (IMO) we should already know, that Geno Smith is not the guy.

But we must give Geno more chances until every single person finally agrees that we know for a certainty that he sucks.

[Lot K Tailgaters]

Denver wants Kaepernick and it doesn't seem like anyone wants Fitzpatrick.  He isn't worth big time money.  Been in the NFL 11 years and hasn't played in a post season game yet.  Threw 3 INTs in the fourth quarter against Buffalo. 

Great leadership qualities and a great personality.  I would like to have him back but only if the price is right.

The people flipping out the most about this are shmucks who sell Fitzmagic shirts all over Instagram.

[mphtrilogy]

1 minute ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

Denver wants Kaepernick and it doesn't seem like anyone wants Fitzpatrick.  He isn't worth big time money.  Been in the NFL 11 years and hasn't played in a post season game yet.  Threw 3 INTs in the fourth quarter against Buffalo. 

Great leadership qualities and a great personality.  I would like to have him back but only if the price is right.

The people flipping out the most about this are shmucks who sell Fitzmagic shirts all over Instagram.

Exactly.

 

Never made the playoffs isn't a $15 mill guy who's been around forever.

 

I like Fitz, hope he comes back, but we finally have a GM who evaluates with Reality glasses.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not necessarily. It could be. But it also could just be a counter to Fitzpatrick's equally as high demands on the other extreme, with the thought that they'd settle around $10M. I prefer not to settle at that high a number myself, but to be fair it's not an unreasonable conclusion.

When you negotiate and your opponent is too far away, you don't meet in the middle by starting at the amount you want to pay. You start out by offering less than you're willing to go, with the idea that you go back and forth and arrive at or lower than your self-imposed limit, if a deal is there to be had.

Disagree. When your opponent is too far away, you don't even counter. You walk and try to make them negotiate against themselves. I usually use this to very great success in my daily work. No it's not player negotiation but there are principles that apply to all negotiations.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The best players are eventually going to be replaced. We are not locked in full gear with a lot of them.
We get a lot of comp picks next year and the rebuilding process will continue. I see nothing wrong with that. This is a rebuilding team, disguised as a win now team to buy credibility.

So now we're not just talking about wasting a single year (2016) in Geno Smith, we're banking we won't be post-season competitive till after we've lost our current best players today?

There is nothing about this team that says "rebuilding", quite the contrary this is a team built since the moment mac and Bowles got here, to compete and win now.  

We simply lack a QB who can do it.

It is this exact attitude I find fault with, giving up (effectively) on 2016, 2017 and maybe more for what?  To find out if Smith sucks now as bad as he sucked in two full years as starter?

So Mangold, Marshall, decker, Revis and Co. should simply accept we're a "rebuilding" team, and they'll never win here for the rest of their careers, because :rebuilding:

Crazyness.  Thats Cleveland Browns territory, blow it up every year.

Thats not how winners are built.  

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

Denver wants Kaepernick and it doesn't seem like anyone wants Fitzpatrick.  He isn't worth big time money.  Been in the NFL 11 years and hasn't played in a post season game yet.  Threw 3 INTs in the fourth quarter against Buffalo. 

Great leadership qualities and a great personality.  I would like to have him back but only if the price is right.

The people flipping out the most about this are shmucks who sell Fitzmagic shirts all over Instagram.

Don't see anyone flipping out. To the contrary nearly everyone would ideally like Fitz back. Seems to me people just disagree over his value. Only ones who are on a different planet are the ardent and quite frankly inexplicable geno lovers who are trying to convince everyone that Fitzpatrick is the worst QB of all time and a baby killer.

[nyjunc]

Matt MaioccoVerified account ‏@MaioccoCSN 5m5 minutes ago

Compensation for QB Colin Kaepernick has not yet been good enough for 49ers to make deal, source says. Broncos, Jets and Browns involved.

[NYCfan]

On 3/9/2016 at 8:15 AM, Jetfan13 said:

Why would Denver give Fitz 15 mill on the down side of a career but not Osweiler who is younger, been in the program and helped Denver win the SB as much as Earl Morrel helped the fins go undefeated? Makes no sense, Elway wont go there.

I have no idea where Elway's gonna go, but, clearly something went wrong between Elway and Osweiler a while ago, given Elway's comments about Osweiler after he left (words to the effect that "we want players who want to be Broncos") and given his lack of props to Osweiler after the SB win in February (he WAS the QB when they won the most important regular season game they played--against the Patriots--and avoided Peyton having to play the final game of his career in a cold and snowy Foxboro for the AFC Championship).

 

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So now we're not just talking about wasting a single year (2016) in Geno Smith, we're banking we won't be post-season competitive till after we've lost our current best players today?

There is nothing about this team that says "rebuilding", quite the contrary this is a team built since the moment mac and Bowles got here, to compete and win now.  

We simply lack a QB who can do it.

It is this exact attitude I find fault with, giving up (effectively) on 2016, 2017 and maybe more for what?  To find out if Smith sucks now as bad as he sucked in two full years as starter?

So Mangold, Marshall, decker, Revis and Co. should simply accept we're a "rebuilding" team, and they'll never win here for the rest of their careers, because :rebuilding:

Crazyness.  Thats Cleveland Browns territory, blow it up every year.

Thats not how winners are built.  

The Carolina Panthers think differently.

[JETSfaninNE]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This is Petty's second year, and he came from a system completely useless to being an NFL QB.

If ever a QB needed the 2 in your "1-2 years yes", it's Petty.

It's nothing to do with "stepping up" or manning up or any such outdated conceptual sillyness.  It's how you protect and develop a QB to be a success in the NFL.  Rule #1, make them earn it, when they're ready.  Rule #2, don;t throw them to the wolves to be consumed before they're ready.

No offence but I don't think you can state how long Petty needs to develop unless you are his coach.  We can agree to disagree but I think after 1 year of professional film study and professional engineering of your body, you need reps.  I'm a firm believer of trial by fire.  If he has it he will survive, if he doesn't he never had it to begin with and you were spending time, money and a roster spot on an average player that isn't starter material.

Did you read the analysis of Gaileys system for Fitzpatrick?  It can easily be used for an inexperienced QB as well.  You can develop a QB in live action if you do it correctly and not panic and try to bandaid him like the jets did to both Sanchez and to a lesser extent Geno.  (Geno did need a year on the bench, we shouldn't have started him right away)

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Matt MaioccoVerified account ‏@MaioccoCSN 5m5 minutes ago

Compensation for QB Colin Kaepernick has not yet been good enough for 49ers to make deal, source says. Broncos, Jets and Browns involved.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Matt MaioccoVerified account ‏@MaioccoCSN 5m5 minutes ago

Compensation for QB Colin Kaepernick has not yet been good enough for 49ers to make deal, source says. Broncos, Jets and Browns involved.

Well at least this gives us a path to what we are going to do. Also could be Jets posturing to lower Fitz's price

[sourceworx]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Matt MaioccoVerified account ‏@MaioccoCSN 5m5 minutes ago

Compensation for QB Colin Kaepernick has not yet been good enough for 49ers to make deal, source says. Broncos, Jets and Browns involved.

Wow

[Warfish]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The Carolina Panthers think differently.

Let me pull out a JetsWilly12 and ask "remind me, how many Super Bowl titled have they won"?

We'll see if the Panthers are anything but a flash in the pan, now that their QB has been exposed to some degree.

[JETSfaninNE]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Matt MaioccoVerified account ‏@MaioccoCSN 5m5 minutes ago

Compensation for QB Colin Kaepernick has not yet been good enough for 49ers to make deal, source says. Broncos, Jets and Browns involved.

Not sure how I feel about Kaep, he definitely has the upside and if we are getting in the realm of Starter money for a QB might as well give it to Kaep over Fitz.  This could be a smokescreen though.  But if it isn't then this will tell you everything you need to know about how the org feels about Geno Smith.

[nyjunc]

we cannot allowed to be held hostage by someone like Fitz.  

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, JETSfaninNE said:

No offence but I don't think you can state how long Petty needs to develop unless you are his coach.  We can agree to disagree but I think after 1 year of professional film study and professional engineering of your body, you need reps.  I'm a firm believer of trial by fire.  If he has it he will survive, if he doesn't he never had it to begin with and you were spending time, money and a roster spot on an average player that isn't starter material.

Did you read the analysis of Gaileys system for Fitzpatrick?  It can easily be used for an inexperienced QB as well.  You can develop a QB in live action if you do it correctly and not panic and try to bandaid him like the jets did to both Sanchez and to a lesser extent Geno.  (Geno did need a year on the bench, we shouldn't have started him right away)

None taken, and you're quite right, I can only analyse and evaluate on what I know factually and see and read.

We'll know for sure based on what the team does this offseason, and how they handle the QB position come training camp.

The Jets history of "trail by fire" has left an undue number of charred QB bodies strewn along the way.  

[jmat321]

I hope the Jets are offering Geno as part of the Kaep offer

[JETSfaninNE]

Just now, Warfish said:

None taken, and you're quite right, I can only analyse and evaluate on what I know factually and see and read.

We'll know for sure based on what the team does this offseason, and how they handle the QB position come training camp.

Absolutely, this new news about Kaep sure is interesting though.  It not only will tell us what the org thinks of Geno but also will be indicative that the org may not feel Petty will be ready as you say.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we cannot allowed to be held hostage by someone like Fitz.  

We're not. We are turning the tables on him. This interest in Fitz could be a ploy by us.

[JETSfaninNE]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

I hope the Jets are offering Geno as part of the Kaep offer

Thats what I would be thinking, they would have to unload Geno in a deal like that but his value is that of what, a 6th rounder maybe?

[pointman]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we cannot allowed to be held hostage by someone like Fitz.  

We're not. He's about to learn how mediocre he really is.

[Warfish]

Just now, JETSfaninNE said:

Absolutely, this new news about Kaep sure is interesting though.  It not only will tell us what the org thinks of Geno but also will be indicative that the org may not feel Petty will be ready as you say.

Unexpected (by me, clearly others thought it was possible).

Unwelcomed as well (by me), but that's opinion based on feeling more than analysis, and that's worthless.

To Petty, I've just seen nor read anything, from the tam or from respected analysis, that would imply he's ready, and the facts we know, his college system, the transition difficulty, etc., makes him being ready now, one year in, unlikely.  But we can't know for sure, we can only extrapolate based on other, related, events.  Like potentially chasing Kap.

[pointman]

2 minutes ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Thats what I would be thinking, they would have to unload Geno in a deal like that but his value is that of what, a 6th rounder maybe?

We would have to give them a lot more than a 6th for them to take Geno off our hands.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, pointman said:

We're not. He's about to learn how mediocre he really is.

I love what Macc is doing.

[jmat321]

8 minutes ago, pointman said:

We would have to give them a lot more than a 6th for them to take Geno off our hands.

Yeah I would think a pick plus player(s) would be the offer.  Maybe a midrounder and Geno?  

[Mike135]

1 hour ago, JETSfaninNE said:

... I would ride Geno for a year ...