Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED

[Jet Nut]

22 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I disagree. We didn't have a great offense. Our skill position players were again mostly the same guys from a 4-12 team. The Qb was the most important addition in 2015. And why not be optimistic after a good season. I think we can make the playoffs and if we get in like 2009 good things can happen. 

20% of the OL was different.  The best player on the team, the most productive player on the offense, Marshall, was new.  Decker was free to run unchecked.  

Much, much better offense, nowhere near the same talent as 2014

[nyjets782]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Fitz was actually pretty good with the Texans in 2014 until he got injured. The reason Mac who knew him from Houston wisely signed him. Again the skill position players in 2014 were mostly the same guys as 2015 except for Marshall. And Marshall was not the perfect player believe me. He lost a few games, too and is at times erratic. 

Mac actually wanted Hoyer first and only traded for Fitz once Hoyer signed with Houston.  It was clearly not a guy he was hot after from the beginning.  Marshall was an absolute beast last season and his presence filters down the entire lineup making things much easier for Decker, Enunwa and the running game.  You cannot possibly underestimate what a huge addition that was for the offense.  It is silly to even try to do so.  And to make the 2014 version of Amaro out to be any great loss is nonsense.  He was a complete non-factor all season save for the Denver game. 

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

Mac actually wanted Hoyer first and only traded for Fitz once Hoyer signed with Houston.  It was clearly not a guy he was hot after from the beginning.  Marshall was an absolute beast last season and his presence filters down the entire lineup making things much easier for Decker, Enunwa and the running game.  You cannot possibly underestimate what a huge addition that was for the offense.  It is silly to even try to do so.  And to make the 2014 version of Amaro out to be any great loss is nonsense.  He was a complete non-factor all season save for the Denver game. 

I think Fitz was the key addition over Marshall who at times was erratic. But he was overall a great addition. The loss of Amaro I think was significant but probably not major. It will be interesting to see if he fits in this season. And in 2014 we had Percy Harvin. A guy who at times has been an impact player. I thought it was a good acquisition at the time by Idzik and he was a guy worth taking a chance on when he became available. 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

And in 2014 we had Percy Harvin. A guy who at times has been an impact player. I thought it was a good acquisition at the time by Idzik and he was a guy worth taking a chance on when he became available. 

Ok I think he's trolling us now.  Some April Fools gag or something.

[drdetroit]

30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

20% of the OL was different.  The best player on the team, the most productive player on the offense, Marshall, was new.  Decker was free to run unchecked.  

Much, much better offense, nowhere near the same talent as 2014

Not to mention we actually had a professional secondary last season not the sh-tshow of 2014

[The Engineer]

48 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I think that Salas is a good 4th or 5th receiver and we had other guys in 2015 like Thompkins and even Devin Smith that aren't big stars either. Just backup receivers. And Brandon Marshall was not the straw that stirred the drink for the Jets. He made some great catches sure but also some of the dumbest plays in the NFL. 

System and coaching was night and day, thats one big difference. Marshall allowed other receivers to be put in their proper position to succeed. With Marshall defenses played other guys differently, so that 1 addition alone changed the rest of the offense entirely. Roster was different, but there were a lot of other factors that changed the sophistication of the offense entirely. 

[ylekram]

34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

20% of the OL was different.  The best player on the team, the most productive player on the offense, Marshall, was new.  Decker was free to run unchecked.  

Much, much better offense, nowhere near the same talent as 2014

lol

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

Mac actually wanted Hoyer first and only traded for Fitz once Hoyer signed with Houston.  It was clearly not a guy he was hot after from the beginning.  Marshall was an absolute beast last season and his presence filters down the entire lineup making things much easier for Decker, Enunwa and the running game.  You cannot possibly underestimate what a huge addition that was for the offense.  It is silly to even try to do so.  And to make the 2014 version of Amaro out to be any great loss is nonsense.  He was a complete non-factor all season save for the Denver game. 

There was a long, detailed article last year that outlined (with game film) a lot of Fitz's positive plays - with Houston - that were successful or TDs despite really bad (if not awful) throws and decisions by Fitzpatrick, because Hopkins bailed him out so effectively and so often. Like the one that was just published this past week showing how badly Fitz was bailed out by Marshall this past season. 

He had good stats last year with Houston (largely due to one lopsided game vs the tanking, two-win Titans). But they watch their own film as well. If he was really so good, does anyone really think Houston would have let their incumbent, dirt-cheap starting QB go for a measly 7th round pick? They knew what he was and what he wasn't, and were therefore willing to roll the dice on someone else.  That didn't work either, so they're rolling the dice again on Osweiller.

They know (and knew) Fitz is not a playoff QB; he's a stopgap that (if he's handed the job) also stops you from getting needed reps for more talented players who may or may not be your long-term guy. He's a #2 starter who (unlike most #2 QBs) won't be a disaster if your #1 plan goes wrong, but that doesn't make him a #1 plan himself. Maybe - maybe - for a stacked true SB team like Denver, and even they're not jumping at the opportunity.

[nyjets782]

8 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I think Fitz was the key addition over Marshall who at times was erratic. But he was overall a great addition. The loss of Amaro I think was significant but probably not major. It will be interesting to see if he fits in this season. And in 2014 we had Percy Harvin. A guy who at times has been an impact player. I thought it was a good acquisition at the time by Idzik and he was a guy worth taking a chance on when he became available. 

I respectfully disagree.  I think Marshall was by far the bigger addition.  He made countless huge catches on balls that you would hardly consider great throws....the Giants TD and the second TD in the Pat game being prime examples.  He his presence made Fitz, Decker, Enunwa, Ivory and Powell all much bigger threats..it's not even debatable. 

In 2014 we had Percy Harvin for 8-9 games.  He has been worse than a jag ever since his trade to Seattle and was a jag for us.  Owusu made a bigger impact down the stretch than he did.  It was a terrible acquisition because it cost us $9M of cap space that could have been rolled over into 2015.  So The Great John Idzik played with himself in free agency with $50M to spend then watched his team go 1-6 and then traded for a grossly overpaid WR when the season was lost which took cap space away from the next season.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, ylekram said:

lol

+1

[ylekram]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There was a long, detailed article last year that outlined (with game film) a lot of Fitz's positive plays - with Houston - that were successful despite really bad (if not awful) throws and decisions by Fitzpatrick, because Hopkins bailed him out so effectively and so often. Like the one that was just published this past week showing how badly Fitz was bailed out by Marshall this past season. 

He had good stats last year with Houston (largely due to one lopsided game vs the tanking, two-win Titans). But they watch their own film as well. If he was really so good, does anyone really think Houston would have let their incumbent, dirt-cheap starting QB go for a measly 7th round pick? They knew what he was and what he wasn't, and were therefore willing to roll the dice on someone else.  That didn't work either, so they're rolling the dice again on Osweiller.

They know (and knew) Fitz is not a playoff QB; he's a stopgap that (if he's handed the job) also stops you from getting needed reps for more talented players who may or may not be your long-term guy. He's a #2 starter who (unlike most #2 QBs) won't be a disaster if your #1 plan goes wrong, but that doesn't make him a #1 plan himself. Maybe - maybe - for a stacked true SB team like Denver, and even they're not jumping at the opportunity.

gotta luv dem bloggers. shows 12 of 33 fitz td's. most of them were accurate throws and reads. yes,. i just dont see "all the bailouts". the running backs and receivers made some nice plays and the play calls were spot on. what about fitz' other 21 td's? why didnt the blogger use those? let me quess. he didnt have the room or the time to go over everyone of fitz' 33, lucky, weather helped, weak schedule assisted, bailed out td's? i stated yesterday that anyone could take any nfl player in the league, use small amounts of video footage, and write an article portraying them in a possitive or negative light. this article is no different. its a sheep article. you think fitz is a jag? fine. you dont want him back? fine. to discedit fitz for his fine season and to give all credit to a certain set of circumstances is just.....idk. when the jets sign fitz, i just hope that gailey,decker, and marshal keep bailing him out

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't think so but we'll never know. But again the skill position players in 2014 were pretty much the same guys we had in 2015. And we lost a couple of good players in Harvin and Amaro. We had no real starting receiving tight end in 2015. 

the skill guys weren't close in those 2 years.  adding Marshall alone makes a HUGE difference, throw in that Decker was hurt most of 2014 and they weren't close in any way.  2015 was one of the most talented O's around the QB we have EVER had.  2014 was mediocre at best.

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the skill guys weren't close in those 2 years.  adding Marshall alone makes a HUGE difference, throw in that Decker was hurt most of 2014 and they weren't close in any way.  2015 was one of the most talented O's around the QB we have EVER had.  2014 was mediocre at best.

Decker had over 70 catches in 2014 and almost 1000 yards. So he was well enough to play and contribute significantly. The key difference were the additions of Fitz and Marshall. Since when does a receiver have more of an impact than the Qb. 

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Decker had over 70 catches in 2014 and almost 1000 yards. So he was well enough to play and contribute significantly. The key difference were the additions of Fitz and Marshall. Since when does a receiver have more of an impact than the Qb. 

74 recs as a #1 WR, this year he was a 2nd option- HUGE difference especially w/ having someone as great as Marshall was commanding attention.

The key difference was Marshall #1 and Decker being fully healthy #2.  Fitz had a nice year until he melted down in the biggest game of the year.

Clearly the Jets and the rest of the NFL disagree with you or someone would have snatched this "rising star" QB up already.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nyjets782 said:

I respectfully disagree.  I think Marshall was by far the bigger addition.  He made countless huge catches on balls that you would hardly consider great throws....the Giants TD and the second TD in the Pat game being prime examples.  He his presence made Fitz, Decker, Enunwa, Ivory and Powell all much bigger threats..it's not even debatable. 

In 2014 we had Percy Harvin for 8-9 games.  He has been worse than a jag ever since his trade to Seattle and was a jag for us.  Owusu made a bigger impact down the stretch than he did.  It was a terrible acquisition because it cost us $9M of cap space that could have been rolled over into 2015.  So The Great John Idzik played with himself in free agency with $50M to spend then watched his team go 1-6 and then traded for a grossly overpaid WR when the season was lost which took cap space away from the next season.

Marshall, who also was personally responsible for at least three INT's I can recall, likely more.  One his literally handed the ball to the defense.

Marshall, who most o fthe league was writing off as on the downside if not the end of his career when the trade happened.

Marshall, who most league folks considered a mental case, a locker room cancer and a bad apple.

Marshall was absolutely a big gain for us, a major improvement.  But to give him all the credit is to ignore reality.

[ylekram]

36 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Decker had over 70 catches in 2014 and almost 1000 yards. So he was well enough to play and contribute significantly. The key difference were the additions of Fitz and Marshall. Since when does a receiver have more of an impact than the Qb. 

its not even close and its not debatable

[ylekram]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Marshall, who also was personally responsible for at least three INT's I can recall, likely more.  One his literally handed the ball to the defense.

Marshall, who most o fthe league was writing off as on the downside if not the end of his career when the trade happened.

Marshall, who most league folks considered a mental case, a locker room cancer and a bad apple.

Marshall was absolutely a big gain for us, a major improvement.  But to give him all the credit is to ignore reality.

dont forget about all of marshal's playoff appearances literally dragging bum qb's to the post season, year in and year out

[ylekram]

47 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the skill guys weren't close in those 2 years.  adding Marshall alone makes a HUGE difference, throw in that Decker was hurt most of 2014 and they weren't close in any way.  2015 was one of the most talented O's around the QB we have EVER had.  2014 was mediocre at best.

2014 ny jets skill players= exact same as 2015 except for fitz and marshal

marshal= reason the jets won 10 games. super human

fitz=reason the jets jets didnt make the playoffs. super bum

 

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

 

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, ylekram said:

2014 ny jets skill players= exact same as 2015 except for fitz and marshal

marshal= reason the jets won 10 games. super human

fitz=reason the jets jets didnt make the playoffs. super bum

 

[ylekram]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Marshall, who also was personally responsible for at least three INT's I can recall, likely more.  One his literally handed the ball to the defense.

Marshall, who most o fthe league was writing off as on the downside if not the end of his career when the trade happened.

Marshall, who most league folks considered a mental case, a locker room cancer and a bad apple.

Marshall was absolutely a big gain for us, a major improvement.  But to give him all the credit is to ignore reality.

for every "bail out" catch made by marshal, he drops an easy one. but we are to believe that the 10 wins is 100% marshal and 0% fitz

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, ylekram said:

dont forget about all of marshal's playoff appearances literally dragging bum qb's to the post season, year in and year out

he did all he could in 2015 to drag  Fitz but Fitz didn't want to go.

[ylekram]

Just now, nyjunc said:

its basically what you are saying. marshal the super human is the reason the jets went from 4-12 to 10-6

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Marshall, who also was personally responsible for at least three INT's I can recall, likely more.  One his literally handed the ball to the defense.

Marshall, who most o fthe league was writing off as on the downside if not the end of his career when the trade happened.

Marshall, who most league folks considered a mental case, a locker room cancer and a bad apple.

Marshall was absolutely a big gain for us, a major improvement.  But to give him all the credit is to ignore reality.

Marshall was THE reason we were as close as we were.  did he drop some passes? of course but he saved a lot more than he dropped.  all those criticisms were valid pre NYJ and may be again in the future but in 2015 he was the perfect player and teammate.

[nyjunc]

Just now, ylekram said:

its basically what you are saying. marshal the super human is the reason the jets went from 4-12 to 10-6

Marshall was the biggest reason w/o question but we upgraded the talent all over the place.  we went from about 20th-25th in the league in terms of talent to top 5-10.

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

20% of the OL was different.  The best player on the team, the most productive player on the offense, Marshall, was new.  Decker was free to run unchecked.  

Much, much better offense, nowhere near the same talent as 2014

Decker was much healthier.

[Mike135]

7 minutes ago, ylekram said:

marshal= reason the jets won 10 games. super human

 

+ Gailey, Bowles, and a great defense (secondary)

 

7 minutes ago, ylekram said:

fitz=reason the jets jets didnt make the playoffs. super bum

Yup, pretty much.

[ylekram]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

he did all he could in 2015 to drag  Fitz but Fitz didn't want to go.

yea, fitz is a heavy bastard. i was referring to the other 9 years where the super human dragged all those other qb's to the post season

[Warfish]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Marshall was THE reason we were as close as we were.  did he drop some passes? of course but he saved a lot more than he dropped.  all those criticisms were valid pre NYJ and may be again in the future but in 2015 he was the perfect player and teammate.

I was unaware he threw the ball to himself, and so well too, that he was single-handed able to revive his flagging career with the single best year he's ever had.

Maybe he should be the starting QB, eh?

And he didn't drop some, he dropped quite a few, a number of which were dropped right into defenders hands.  

Once wonders why a guy infamous for having fights with his QB (usually after saying he loved them) was such a good teammate this year.

Couldn't be because his QB led and managed him well, could it?

Naaaaaaa.

[ylekram]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Marshall was the biggest reason w/o question but we upgraded the talent all over the place.  we went from about 20th-25th in the league in terms of talent to top 5-10.

and its not debatable. super humans are better than competant qb play

[slats]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I think Fitz was the key addition over Marshall who at times was erratic. But he was overall a great addition. The loss of Amaro I think was significant but probably not major. It will be interesting to see if he fits in this season. And in 2014 we had Percy Harvin. A guy who at times has been an impact player. I thought it was a good acquisition at the time by Idzik and he was a guy worth taking a chance on when he became available. 

Pretty sure I disagree with you about everything. 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, ylekram said:

for every "bail out" catch made by marshal, he drops an easy one. but we are to believe that the 10 wins is 100% marshal and 0% fitz

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I was unaware he threw the ball to himself, and so well too, that he was single-handed able to revive his flagging career with the single best year he's ever had.

Maybe he should be the starting QB, eh?

And he didn't drop some, he dropped quite a few, a number of which were dropped right into defenders hands.  

Once wonders why a guy infamous for having fights with his QB (usually after saying he loved them) was such a good teammate this year.

Couldn't be because his QB led and managed him well, could it?

Naaaaaaa.

But you were aware of how many times Fitz simply threw the ball up for grabs and Marshall came down with it, right?

 

Fitz cost us many more games than Brandon cost us and Brandon was responsible for many more wins than Fitz.

 

the best thing you can say about Fitz was his teammates loved him.  he is so highly though of around the league that he is a FA at the most important position and not one team is seriously interested in him.

[ylekram]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Marshall was THE reason we were as close as we were.  did he drop some passes? of course but he saved a lot more than he dropped.  all those criticisms were valid pre NYJ and may be again in the future but in 2015 he was the perfect player and teammate.

show me. marshal dropped 10 passes last season. whats "alot more" 15? show me 15 "bail out passes"

[Rangers9]

First of all smart Qbs overthrow good receivers if they know what they're doing and the receiver can make plays. It cuts down on turnovers. They even practice it. And Fitz wasn't inaccurate when it counted because his pick ratio was very low. He only had 12 going into the 4th quarter of the last game. Now guys like Mark Sanchez who don't know what they're doing don't overthrow on purpose. They just do it naturally. And the receiver isn't even close to the ball. But sometimes the DB is.