Jump to content

Ryan Fitzpatrick: MERGED


kelly

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Disagree completely.

Our we have needs at guard and inside linebacker, these are both positions that can legitimately be filled by a 4th rounder.

I'd rather have Connor Cook (or take your pick of 2nd rounder QBs this year) and an ILB to eventually take over for David Harris.

Not saying I'd crap my pants if we traded for Glennon, but I think our fanbase is spooked by not having a QB so bad that it's making them overvalue a backup... which is pretty par-for-the-course with Jets fans.

And no, you can never have too many QBs that you're developing. You don't draft Petty in round 4 and then not take another QB for 3 years until you figure out if he's going to develop into anything. That would be stupid.

You fill the QB room with the best QB prospects you can get your hands on. Always.

Hey, I've said all along, I'm cool going with Geno.  Keep all out draft picks, maybe even improve 'em by trading Mo, and fill some holes at LB and Oline.

I've been somewhat beaten into submission though by people arguing you can't go with just Geno.  So seems like Glennon is an easy cheap solution to bring in competition for Geno.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Hey, I've said all along, I'm cool going with Geno.  Keep all out draft picks, maybe even improve 'em by trading Mo, and fill some holes at LB and Oline.

I've been somewhat beaten into submission though by people arguing you can't go with just Geno.  So seems like Glennon is an easy cheap solution to bring in competition for Geno.

Fair enough. 

I don't see any scenario where we just "go with Geno". So, I'm advocating for the scenario that gives us a prospect with an undefined ceiling. I don't want has-beens and never-will-bes if it doesn't align with the goal of competing every year. Fitz doesn't at the price he's asking. Glennon is a backup, and would create a scenario where we have to give him a couple years to "prove" whatever. 

I'd rather try and find our Brady or Russ Wilson. Glennon is not that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Fair enough. 

I don't see any scenario where we just "go with Geno". So, I'm advocating for the scenario that gives us a prospect with an undefined ceiling. I don't want has-beens and never-will-bes if it doesn't align with the goal of competing every year. Fitz doesn't at the price he's asking. Glennon is a backup, and would create a scenario where we have to give him a couple years to "prove" whatever. 

I'd rather try and find our Brady or Russ Wilson. Glennon is not that.

with denver closing in on keap, fitz's options are running out. he tried to get the big money but he cant do it. i think the jets will sign fitz shortly. mo is off to the highest bidder. the jets will package that up with their 1st to get lynch. fitz holds the fort,lynch rides the bench till he is ready. i like the way i, err, i mean mac thinks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, ylekram said:

paxton? peyton? close enough. gotta take a shot

You know I agree with that. Except you have to be right. Put all our eggs into the wrong basket and the whole franchise is set back for 2 years or more to give the kid every possible chance. Meanwhile you pass up on the right prospect later. 

So I'm only in favor of hindsight-benefitted success, not swinging and missing, lol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Find one post offering Mo & a 1 for anyone?  

And someone who agrees with that deal.

Waste my time searching for posts, when we both know you'll then move on to "well, that poster is dumb/doesn't count/doesn't speak for people"?

No thanks.  You'll just have to keep raging that people say things on the internet you think are wrong.  

Seems to be all you do these days, bitch and whine about what other say while taking a whole assortment of positions, depending on who your tisk tisk scolding at the time.....Pro-Fitz, Anti-Fitz, Pro-Geno, Anti-Geno, Pro-Glennon, Anti-Glennon, etc, etc, etc.  :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Waste my time searching for posts, when we both know you'll then move on to "well, that poster is dumb/doesn't count/doesn't speak for people"?

No thanks.  You'll just have to keep raging that people say things on the internet you think are wrong.  

Seems to be all you do these days, bitch and whine about what other say while taking a whole assortment of positions, depending on who your tisk tisk scolding at the time.....Pro-Fitz, Anti-Fitz, Pro-Geno, Anti-Geno, Pro-Glennon, Anti-Glennon, etc, etc, etc.  :rolleyes:

That's a good way of handling things.  Throw it out there and then make an excuse ahead of time.  Buts you're right, I don't think you can find a single post where someone want to trade Mo and a 1 for Glennon.  Why would we when I'll bet anything that TB doesn't even think the can get a 2nd, Nevermind Mo and a 1.  Essentially two 1’S for a 3rd round QB.  

So not only am I putting it out there that you can't find a single post, a single post would never constitute speaking for the people.

and get off your delusional perch.  I've never lectured you, b1ched or whined.  In fact read your posts.  Idiocracy of people who like Glennon, catching on as if you have some inside info that we don't or just know more.  For someone who does all of the above you need to read before you hit submit reply.  Or suck it up, put your big boy pants on and realize a sports board is meant to include debates and differing opinions.  It's what's supposed to be fun to poke each other.  Grow up Francis 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ylekram said:

with denver closing in on keap, fitz's options are running out. he tried to get the big money but he cant do it. i think the jets will sign fitz shortly. mo is off to the highest bidder. the jets will package that up with their 1st to get lynch. fitz holds the fort,lynch rides the bench till he is ready. i like the way i, err, i mean mac thinks

I would be more on board with a Fitz addition if I knew they were thinking of a Paxton Lynch (I don't know much about him but what I have gathered is that no one thinks he'll be ready at the start of this season). Then what's needed is a stopgap who actually might add value as a mentor-type afterward. All joking aside, since you know I don't think much of Fitz as a QB himself, if it goes down that way and it makes Lynch into a better pro QB then I'm down for whatever is the end that justifies the means. A whole season goes by so fast that thinking long term I don't care what the road to there looks like, as long as we get there. 

But what Mac is doing is a bit more than that. He's just keeping every option open. It may end up with Fitz+Lynch, but he's clearly looked at other options as well. Frankly if Tampa was reasonable in their demands for Glennon, the Fitz drama would already have been over (well, the drama would have been over for the Jets, but not for Fitz). Glennon - IF he is all of what Villain thinks/hopes he is, which is a huge m'fing IF - would be the only route to a realistic run in 2016. Every other option is just treading water until the next actual hopeful is ready to take the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A look at what's happening around the New York Jets :

1. Musical QBs : Another quarterback soon could be off the market, which should turn up the heat on the Jets and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

The San Francisco 49ers have agreed to trade Colin Kaepernick to the Denver Broncos, ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter reported on Saturday, but the swap is contingent on Kaepernick restructuring his contract. If the trade happens, Fitzpatrick would lose a potential suitor, perhaps the last one -- other than the Jets, of course.Ideally, the Jets would like to resolve the contract stalemate by April 18, the start of the offseason program. Unless another team emerges from the weeds (the 49ers, perhaps?), Fitzpatrick's only options would be to take the Jets' low-ball offer (about $7 million) or not play. It's worth noting the 49ers' offensive coordinator is Curtis Modkins, who held the same title with the Buffalo Bills during Fitzpatrick's final three seasons there (2010-2012). Just saying.

I don't think Fitzpatrick's pride would allow him to cave quickly; he could try to slow-play the Jets. They could try to pressure him by flirting with Brian Hoyeror Josh McCown, but they'd better be careful. If New York ends up with one of them and loses Fitzpatrick, it's a loss for the Jets, even if they save a few million bucks. They need him, he needs them. Get it done.

rest of above article : 

>     http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/59432/jets-ryan-fitzpatrick-standoff-could-be-reaching-crunch-time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On April 3, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Integrity28 said:

I'd rather use our draftpicks. Unknown ceiling of new picks vs. established ceiling of Glennon.

People forget that Glennon is a backup QB. 

I'd rather find a starting QB to be our starting QB. 

I have no problem with your choice of keeping our picks but to claim Glennon has hit his 'established ceiling' as you put it is premature.  He played on a very dysfunctional team yet displayed poise and put up good stats.  A lot of these young QB's don't get the opportunity to thrive due to how they are coached, thrown to the wolves, and made scapegoats.  Glennon was a starter not a back up.  It wasn't entirely his fault the Bucs were uncompetitive.  He did his part but of course someone has to take the blame.  I believe in the right circumstance, Glennon would be a top QB in this league. He's proven he can hold his own, is young, his ceiling is actually higher than the unknowns in this draft because he's been battle tested already and will only get better.  He's a low risk/high reward opportunity that makes too much sense for a team that has NO QB and multiple holes in its collective head. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Powpow said:

I have no problem with your choice of keeping our picks but to claim Glennon has hit his 'established ceiling' as you put it is premature.  He played on a very dysfunctional team yet displayed poise and put up good stats.  A lot of these young QB's don't get the opportunity to thrive due to how they are coached, thrown to the wolves, and made scapegoats.  Glennon was a starter not a back up.  It wasn't entirely his fault the Bucs were uncompetitive.  He did his part but of course someone has to take the blame.  I believe in the right circumstance, Glennon would be a top QB in this league. He's proven he can hold his own, is young, his ceiling is actually higher than the unknowns in this draft because he's been battle tested already and will only get better.  He's a low risk/high reward opportunity that makes too much sense for a team that has NO QB and multiple holes in its collective head. 

Sounds a lot like a pro-Geno argument. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, slats said:

Sounds a lot like a pro-Geno argument. :)

I knew that was coming but Sperm cautioned me to keep posts 'shorter' so I didn't delve into the Geno side of the argument.  For the record, I really hoped the Jets had drafted Glennon over Geno.  While his baptism in the NFL wasn't fair, he hasn't shown much to alter coaches or fanbase perceptions either. And his performance stats are quite pathetic to say the least.  While Glennon can garner a 3rd round pick, Geno couldn't be traded for 600 bucks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On April 3, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Integrity28 said:

I'd rather use our draftpicks. Unknown ceiling of new picks vs. established ceiling of Glennon.

People forget that Glennon is a backup QB. 

I'd rather find a starting QB to be our starting QB. 

And before last season Fitz was a backup qb.  What's the established ceiling of Glennon?  You never even saw him play 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On April 3, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Mike135 said:

Hey, I've said all along, I'm cool going with Geno.  Keep all out draft picks, maybe even improve 'em by trading Mo, and fill some holes at LB and Oline.

I've been somewhat beaten into submission though by people arguing you can't go with just Geno.  So seems like Glennon is an easy cheap solution to bring in competition for Geno.

This.

 

Fitz is not $15 mil per season better than Geno.  Just keep Mo, the draft picks and start Geno.  We are bidding against ourselves for Fitz.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look Fitz isn't worth 15 per season. Everybody knows that including him. This is a negotiation. Maybe he wants 10-12 and the Jets want to give him 7-9. With as few years as possible. It seems like it's a "gentleman's disagreement." At least so far. There have been no harsh words except from a few of you.  But for those of you who want Geno instead of Fitz remember you asked for it. Or maybe a guy with a bigger arm but who's not as good a Qb. Like Glennon. Some of you liked to kill Chad when he was here and called him names like noodle arm. But he was a good player for the Jets. And even better for that one season (2008) he was runner up league MVP with the Fins. And beat us and Brett Favre out for the playoffs. The bottom line with Fitz is: he's an improved player. Do you really want him to leave and maybe have a CP 2008 kind of year with another team. I'd give him his 10!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

This.

 

Fitz is not $15 mil per season better than Geno.  Just keep Mo, the draft picks and start Geno.  We are bidding against ourselves for Fitz.

 

Except out bid does not appear to have changed, nor would I expect it to change.

Fitz can be a Jet for ~8 mil a year (i.e. backup QB money).  Or he can walk, and the Jets will start Geno or some other failed QB like a Hoyer or their ilk.

The Jets plan right now seems rather clear, the only uncertainty is will we draft a QB in a few weeks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Except out bid does not appear to have changed, nor would I expect it to change.

Fitz can be a Jet for ~8 mil a year (i.e. backup QB money).  Or he can walk, and the Jets will start Geno or some other failed QB like a Hoyer or their ilk.

The Jets plan right now seems rather clear, the only uncertainty is will we draft a QB in a few weeks?

If the plan is to trade Mo for a package of middle round picks to clear cap space for Fitz that's not a very impressive plan.

 

and if Paxton Lynch is our qb of the future you guys are in for some dark days.  That guy is going to be a BUST 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look Fitz isn't worth 15 per season. Everybody knows that including him. This is a negotiation. Maybe he wants 10-12 and the Jets want to give him 7-9. With as few years as possible. It seems like it's a "gentleman's disagreement." At least so far. There have been no harsh words except from a few of you.  But for those of you who want Geno instead of Fitz remember you asked for it. Or maybe a guy with a bigger arm but who's not as good a Qb. Like Glennon. Some of you liked to kill Chad when he was here and called him names like noodle arm. But he was a good player for the Jets. And even better for that one season (2008) he was runner up league MVP with the Fins. And beat us and Brett Favre out for the playoffs. The bottom line with Fitz is: he's an improved player. Do you really want him to leave and maybe have a CP 2008 kind of year with another team. I'd give him his 10!

Let Fitz keep negotiating we are bidding against ourselves at this point.  The Broncos are trading for Kap and the Rams are drafting a qb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Let Fitz keep negotiating we are bidding against ourselves at this point.  The Broncos are trading for Kap and the Rams are drafting a qb

Well that's not necessarily true. We don't know about that. The 49ers could also be in the mix for Fitz. And the Jets aren't offering him as of yet a deal he wants to take so Mac isn't negotiating against himself. And sometimes a player deserves a good contract. You don't always have to give them rock bottom in terms of market. Look the catcher of the Royals was stuck on a bad deal even though he's been defensive catcher of the year 3 times in a row in the AL. And the Royals gave him a fat extension even though they didn't have to. The name of the game is win in 2016 even if you have to pay a little more. I don't think paying him for a good job last season is stupid. I don't believe these rumors that he is asking for 16 million for a season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well that's not necessarily true. We don't know about that. The 49ers could also be in the mix for Fitz. And the Jets aren't offering him as of yet a deal he wants to take so Mac isn't negotiating against himself. And sometimes a player deserves a good contract. You don't always have to give them rock bottom in terms of market. Look the catcher of the Royals was stuck on a bad deal even though he's been defensive catcher of the year 3 times in a row in the AL. And the Royals gave him a fat extension even though they didn't have to. The name of the game is win in 2016 even if you have to pay a little more. I don't think paying him for a good job last season is stupid. I don't believe these rumors that he is asking for 16 million for a season. 

Lol, what? Why would a team ever pay more than they have to? Baseball doesn't compare because they don't have a hard cap. Sorry, but paying him for a good job last year is stupid. You pay for what you expect going forward. It's not like this guy was a lifelong Jet who deserves a lifetime achievement contract. He had one solid season under absolutely optimal conditions. It's obvious that the Jets like him, but it's also obvious that they want to do better than Fitz ASAP. 

And I'd be shocked if the 49ers showed any interest. They have Gabbert and the 7th pick in the draft. They're not gonna be offering Fitz more than the Jets or Broncos are/were willing to pay him, anyway, that's for sure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, slats said:

Lol, what? Why would a team ever pay more than they have to? Baseball doesn't compare because they don't have a hard cap. Sorry, but paying him for a good job last year is stupid. You pay for what you expect going forward. It's not like this guy was a lifelong Jet who deserves a lifetime achievement contract. He had one solid season under absolutely optimal conditions. It's obvious that the Jets like him, but it's also obvious that they want to do better than Fitz ASAP. 

And I'd be shocked if the 49ers showed any interest. They have Gabbert and the 7th pick in the draft. They're not gonna be offering Fitz more than the Jets or Broncos are/were willing to pay him, anyway, that's for sure. 

the 49ers may actually need to trade up to secure goff or wentz, since the cowboys can easily draft one and you never know how desperate a team like the rams is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, what? Why would a team ever pay more than they have to? Baseball doesn't compare because they don't have a hard cap. Sorry, but paying him for a good job last year is stupid. You pay for what you expect going forward. It's not like this guy was a lifelong Jet who deserves a lifetime achievement contract. He had one solid season under absolutely optimal conditions. It's obvious that the Jets like him, but it's also obvious that they want to do better than Fitz ASAP. 

And I'd be shocked if the 49ers showed any interest. They have Gabbert and the 7th pick in the draft. They're not gonna be offering Fitz more than the Jets or Broncos are/were willing to pay him, anyway, that's for sure. 

Some of you guys act like the money is coming out of your pockets. Kind of hard to understand when so many Jets fans wanted to overpay for a cover corner two years ago and thought the signing of Revis was a smart thing to do. Sure you don't bid against yourself but you have to be fair also. And if the player is someone you want back don't make the negotiations a negative process because you want a relationship with the player afterwards. This is why arbitration is so tough because it puts the team in a position where they have to put the player down. I think Ryan's value to the Jets is high and I wouldn't low ball him. I also wouldn't give him crazy money either. The bottom line is 2016 and he gives us our best chance to win: not Kap, not Glennon and not Geno. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Some of you guys act like the money is coming out of your pockets. Kind of hard to understand when so many Jets fans wanted to overpay for a cover corner two years ago and thought the signing of Revis was a smart thing to do. Sure you don't bid against yourself but you have to be fair also. And if the player is someone you want back don't make the negotiations a negative process because you want a relationship with the player afterwards. This is why arbitration is so tough because it puts the team in a position where they have to put the player down. I think Ryan's value to the Jets is high and I wouldn't low ball him. I also wouldn't give him crazy money either. The bottom line is 2016 and he gives us our best chance to win: not Kap, not Glennon and not Geno. 

They could give Fitzpatrick $1B/year for all I cared - if the NFL didn't have a hard cap. But they do have a hard cap, and the Jets have to put together a competitive 53 man roster within its restrictions. 

The market has determined that Fitzpatrick's value is no higher than the $7M or so offer the Jets have on the table. Why should they go above that? As you just said, you don't bid against yourself. He'll be lucky if the Jets don't lower their offer if Kaep to Denver goes thru. He has no other option but to take whatever the Jets are offering. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, slats said:

They could give Fitzpatrick $1B/year for all I cared - if the NFL didn't have a hard cap. But they do have a hard cap, and the Jets have to put together a competitive 53 man roster within its restrictions. 

The market has determined that Fitzpatrick's value is no higher than the $7M or so offer the Jets have on the table. Why should they go above that? As you just said, you don't bid against yourself. He'll be lucky if the Jets don't lower their offer if Kaep to Denver goes thru. He has no other option but to take whatever the Jets are offering. 

Well, we'll see what he gets then. We've heard rumors that the Jets have a 7-9 window on that. There's all kinds of ways to structure a deal. I don't think going a million or two over that is a big deal. Going after a guy with a contract like Kap now is to me pretty ridiculous. And if we were to get him it could easily be a rebuilding year. As for Glennon he's never won a Qb competition and has a losing record with a losing team. If he was that good why did they trade for McCown in 2014 and then draft Jameis the following year?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well, we'll see what he gets then. We've heard rumors that the Jets have a 7-9 window on that. There's all kinds of ways to structure a deal. I don't think going a million or two over that is a big deal. Going after a guy with a contract like Kap now is to me pretty ridiculous. And if we were to get him it could easily be a rebuilding year. As for Glennon he's never won a Qb competition and has a losing record with a losing team. If he was that good why did they trade for McCown in 2014 and then draft Jameis the following year?

My question is why do the Jets have to move off of their updated offer of 9 Million Dollars?

What is Fitz' movement price? Is it 15 Million or bust?

What do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

After hearing that Denver wouldn't pay Kaep what he wanted, there is no way they are paying Fitz. 

If they want to pay Kaep 7m, then why would they pay Fitz more than that

They wouldn't.

Jets FO tactic appears to be working.  Let Fitz test market, market rejects him, Jets get him back for $7-8 mil a year for 2-3 years.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

They wouldn't.

Jets FO tactic appears to be working.  Let Fitz test market, market rejects him, Jets get him back for $7-8 mil a year for 2-3 years.  

His only other options are to for to Denver for 7 million and compete with Sanchez. Or to retire. And if he retires, I don't want him. That is an uppity asshat move.

If Denver offers him 10m, Denver fans will be screaming, why not pay Kaep that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

My question is why do the Jets have to move off of their updated offer of 9 Million Dollars?

What is Fitz' movement price? Is it 15 Million or bust?

What do you think?

I don't believe he ever asked for 15 because it doesn't make any sense. This is an unsubstantiated rumor. If he is asking for that kind of money he's not getting it. I mean you have backup money which is 2-5. And then lower tier starters 7-9. Rumors are the Jets are offering Fitz in that category. Since he's coming off of a very good year it's not unreasonable to give him an extra million and upper end in that category with maybe a few incentives thrown in. If me I don't play hardball with my starting Qb if I want him back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well, we'll see what he gets then. We've heard rumors that the Jets have a 7-9 window on that. There's all kinds of ways to structure a deal. I don't think going a million or two over that is a big deal. Going after a guy with a contract like Kap now is to me pretty ridiculous. And if we were to get him it could easily be a rebuilding year. As for Glennon he's never won a Qb competition and has a losing record with a losing team. If he was that good why did they trade for McCown in 2014 and then draft Jameis the following year?

1. Lovie Smith is a sucky HC, and Schiano before him. Glennon may not be particularly good, but I wouldn't believe either of those two are the definitive authorities on the matter, and McCown was cheap and coming off a lights-out end to the prior season. Once they saw that it was, in fact, Chicago's elite WRs who made him, they dumped McCown and kept Glennon.

2. Beats having a losing record on a winning team. In other words, they weren't close to being a winning team if not for Glennon screwing it up. Comparatively, he didn't do too badly under the circumstances for a rookie, and then as a 2nd year player, with nonexistent pass blocking.

3. Why take Winston in the draft? It's one thing to like him. It's another thing entirely to pass up on a consensus #1 overall pick QB when you have the #1 overall pick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...