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Maccagnan - what we're going to learn about him


Sperm Edwards

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We're going to learn a lot more about Maccagnan this year, when he has spending constraints, than a year ago when he had the easier job of being handed a team with a bunch of holes (almost any available FA would have filled a hole on the 2015 roster back then), a mountain of available cap space to play with, and a fanbase and owner starved for big splashes after 2013-2014.

There's a time to go balls to the wall on FAs, when the team is so close or when forced to spend by the CBA, and a time to show restraint and realize that being a little better in one area can force us to be a lot worse in another (or in multiple other areas); or it can tie us to a guy for longer than we want him. Left to a popularity contest it would be no-brainers to bring back the likes of Fitz at $15M, Snacks at $8M, Mo at $15M, Ferguson at $14M. Pair the cost of that group with Revis $17M, Harris $7M, Mangold $9M, Marshall/Decker $17M, Gilchrist/Carpenter/Skrine $19M. Such fan-based GM'ing would have us close to the cap ceiling with limited space for 3 dozen other roster spots. And that's just to stay the same as we were in 2015 when we were 10-6 despite the massive fortune of an easy schedule we won't get again for many years. It leaves little room for actual improvement on the roster (outside nailing it with multiple instant-producers in the draft plus hopefully swapping Breno for a better veteran RT of roughly equal cap cost).

Perhaps, even though he's been around GMs for years before we hired him, he sees how his own job is handcuffed by the corner a team easily gets painted into, and the limitations it puts on him as GM, when the roster is so top-heavy. Particularly when it's top-heavy with guys who are now noticeably not what they were. He doesn't have to go to the opposite extreme tried unsuccessfully by Idzik, hoarding cap space that never gets used (or gets used badly, spending and committing to tens of millions in 2014 on Vick, CJ, Breno, Harvin, and extending Kerley). What a waste. Besides, that save-the-cap-space strategy is only useful if you're drafting well, so you can then pounce on the most expensive FAs when your needs are fewer and more targeted, and we see how those drafts turned out.

Anyway it will be interesting. So far I'm encouraged that he isn't panicking the team into commitments to players from whom he knows the team needs to upgrade, or who he knows the team can't carry at those high dollars if we're to keep improving the overall roster. Some are infuriated by those same non-moves. I think everyone realizes we can't improve by bringing back every high priced FA of ours who was cheap the prior season. We'll find out how wisely Mac has chosen. In the end, we all just want a winner.

Go Jets!

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Perfect write up Sperm. This year will show us true colors of Mac. So far, he is sending the right signals. I care more about how Mac will handle Free Agency and Draft than how Jets will finish the leage in 2016. If we strike gold with Mac, 2017 and beyond will look bright. 

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Just now, Matt39 said:

At the end of the day it all comes back to the draft. The last Idzik really screwed us and it's why the roster  is so top heavy.

that draft 2 years ago should have set us up for many years of success, that was such a crushing draft to blow.

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I think as some others have said that this duo has bought themselves some time to try and rebuild but still be decent.  We will go after bargain free agents after the frenzy has died down, collect some comp picks for next year and have two real  good drafts.

The thing that has thrown a wrench into it for them imo is fitzpatrick.  I think they assumed that he would resign quickly for a reasonable bargain price, then a few of these stupid Qb contracts came out for bradford and the offer to osweiler and the market went up.  We will see how disciplined they are if they actually let fitz walk if necessary.

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It's one thing to spend big money on a guy like Revis, the best at his position.

Another to overpay mediocre players that prior teams didn't want anymore by 20%+ more than they are worth, because "they are the best FA available".

Impulse buying to placate fans is how sh*tty teams stay sh*tty.

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think as some others have said that this duo has bought themselves some time to try and rebuild but still be decent.  We will go after bargain free agents after the frenzy has died down, collect some comp picks for next year and have two real  good drafts.

The thing that has thrown a wrench into it for them imo is fitzpatrick.  I think they assumed that he would resign quickly for a reasonable bargain price, then a few of these stupid Qb contracts came out for bradford and the offer to osweiler and the market went up.  We will see how disciplined they are if they actually let fitz walk if necessary.

And one agent is working the strings. I hate when a team finally gels and players find their groove there's a train wreck of contracts that get swept off the tracks. 

If only the numbers were kept real from the beginning instead of fictitious backloads that rarely pay out. 

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7 minutes ago, chirorob said:

The only way to win is to have cheap talent.

The Jets now have none.  Have to hit draft pics, guys who contribute in their first year or 2. 

None?  I'd say Leonard Williams, Mauldin, Marcus Williams, Calvin Pryor and Amaro qualify in that category.  And until we know for sure what Bryce Petty does or does not have to offer, he's in that category too.  I'll keep Sheldon Richardson off that list since he's about to be expensive, whether it is us or someone else paying him, starting in 2017.

Crusher has been pounding the Dexter McDougle table for a while now too.  With Cromartie gone I'm looking forward to seeing if he can give us anything before his rookie deal expires.

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Hopefully what we learn about Maccagnan & Bowles is they plan on running the team
like BAL and PIT when they were on top.  Every year those teams would let certain
"big name" free agents go, get high compensatory picks in the next draft.  And let
the young players they were developing take over and produce at low $$$

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1 minute ago, KRL said:

Hopefully what we learn about Maccagnan & Bowles is they plan on running the team
like BAL and PIT when they were on top.  Every year those teams would let certain
"big name" free agents go, get high compensatory picks in the next draft.  And let
the young players they were developing take over and produce at low $$$

This, most teams who make the big splashes in free agency never win.  Pit, BAL and even New England are prime examples of this.  It's about drafting well, knowing when to let aging veterans walk, having a continuous pipeline of talent to fill in holes and sprinkling in some solid free agent signings.  It's easy to look at some of the big name moves happening right now and get discouraged but ultimately that's not what's going to build a CONSISTENT winner.  

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We will find out if Mac sucks or if the league was right in 2015 for making him executive of the year. It's about that simple. Listen, I don't care how he handles the offseason. He could be great and I'm sure in this crowd he'll be great even if he sh*t on the floor. The IMPORTANT thing is how does the team fare???? If we improve, you could say he did a nice job given the circumstances. If we win ANYTHING less than 10 games, then this regime has gone backwards. We are NOT trending toward a championship, but we are in decline.

That would tell me that Mac did NOT do his job. NFL football is not every team NEVER winning a championship, just having good and bad seasons without ever making the playoffs. This is about championships. If Mac cannot make one here? Then I want him gone.

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

None?  I'd say Leonard Williams, Mauldin, Marcus Williams, Calvin Pryor and Amaro qualify in that category.  And until we know for sure what Bryce Petty does or does not have to offer, he's in that category too.  I'll keep Sheldon Richardson off that list since he's about to be expensive, whether it is us or someone else paying him, starting in 2017.

Crusher has been pounding the Dexter McDougle table for a while now too.  With Cromartie gone I'm looking forward to seeing if he can give us anything before his rookie deal expires.

He's stuck behind Skrine. Bowles says McDougle is more of an inside guy than outside. If anything, this is Dee Milliner's last, best chance to do anything. The cornerback position leaves much to be desired. They're going to have to address it in FA or the draft.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

None?  I'd say Leonard Williams, Mauldin, Marcus Williams, Calvin Pryor and Amaro qualify in that category.  And until we know for sure what Bryce Petty does or does not have to offer, he's in that category too.  I'll keep Sheldon Richardson off that list since he's about to be expensive, whether it is us or someone else paying him, starting in 2017.

Crusher has been pounding the Dexter McDougle table for a while now too.  With Cromartie gone I'm looking forward to seeing if he can give us anything before his rookie deal expires.

Amaro, could be.  Isn't healthy.  

The others, yes, they are relative bargains.   Petty is cheap, but not talent at this point.  I hope he becomes great.  I hope to watch him for 15 years.  At this point, he's just cheap.

Sheldon is about to get pricey. 

I wish they'd keep Snacks.  He's the one I think will really hurt.  But, I also realize, you have to let over priced players go, get the extra picks, and then not blow them (Idzik).

Who on offense would you call a good bargain talent?  There is talent, sure, but it's not cheap.

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3 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Amaro, could be.  Isn't healthy.  

The others, yes, they are relative bargains.   Petty is cheap, but not talent at this point.  I hope he becomes great.  I hope to watch him for 15 years.  At this point, he's just cheap.

Sheldon is about to get pricey. 

I wish they'd keep Snacks.  He's the one I think will really hurt.  But, I also realize, you have to let over priced players go, get the extra picks, and then not blow them (Idzik).

Who on offense would you call a good bargain talent?  There is talent, sure, but it's not cheap.

Offense is at a premium in the NFL today.  I don't know that there is such a thing as "bargain talent", because as we just saw with Chris Ivory and have also seen with QB's league-wide, even guys who aren't close to elite will get elite money in the open market. 

If Brian Winters or one of our many other young RG's works out well, I guess that would qualify.  Otherwise, we're currently spending heavily at WR, LT, LG, C and RT, and will also be spending at QB if we retain Fitzpatrick or go after another veteran QB via trade/signing.

My hope is we can retain Bilal Powell at a "bargain price".

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Offense is at a premium in the NFL today.  I don't know that there is such a thing as "bargain talent", because as we just saw with Chris Ivory and have also seen with QB's league-wide, even guys who aren't close to elite will get elite money in the open market. 

If Brian Winters or one of our many other young RG's works out well, I guess that would qualify.  Otherwise, we're currently spending heavily at WR, LT, LG, C and RT, and will also be spending at QB if we retain Fitzpatrick or go after another veteran QB via trade/signing.

My hope is we can retain Bilal Powell at a "bargain price".

No, the only way to get bargain talent it to draft it.  And they simply have not drafted enough players to contribute early.  That goes all the way back to Mike T drafting 3 players a year total. 

For prolonged success, you have to let some people go, get the comp picks, and not Idzik them.

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I'm not worried at all. Anyone getting distraught we're not signing anyone big need to pay attention. We don't have a lot of money to spend right now, and that's ok. We could easily get way under with a few cuts but we're not going to add big contracts. We're going to build through the draft, that was Maccagnan's plan all along. People got out under a spell by all his spending last year thinking this was going to be the norm. We HAD to spend that money! Literally, had to.. So next year we will be under 50 million dollars. Do I expect him to go on another spending spree? No I absolutely do not. He might get 1 big name guy and use a lot of it to resign players. That's what I expect.  He won't be a big free agency guy I know this. He is all about the draft, as it should be. Spending bucks is where we get screwed in the long run. Ask tanny. We will be fine. I trust maccagnan.  This draft will be his most important draft of his career, even after it ends in my opinion 

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35 minutes ago, chirorob said:

No, the only way to get bargain talent it to draft it.  And they simply have not drafted enough players to contribute early.  That goes all the way back to Mike T drafting 3 players a year total. 

For prolonged success, you have to let some people go, get the comp picks, and not Idzik them.

This isn't new information.  You suggested we have no young, cheap talent.  All the players I listed as being young, talented, and cheap were draft picks, and you basically rejected or shrugged off the list because we don't know how good they are yet.  That's the nature of the game.  You don't truly know how good draft picks are until about Year 2-3, when they're already nearing free agency, and very soon will no longer become bargains.

The one player who I am suggesting we retain, Bilal Powell, was a former Jet draft pick.  I get the idea of letting UFA's go to get comp picks.  But you don't have to let all of them go, and I doubt Powell gets us a good comp pick anyways. 

It's easy to say that you can build a team purely through the draft, then let those former draft picks go at the end of their rookie deals and keep the cycle going.  But no team out there nails the draft with such success that they can actually do that. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This isn't new information.  You suggested we have no young, cheap talent.  All the players I listed as being young, talented, and cheap were draft picks, and you basically rejected or shrugged off the list because we don't know how good they are yet.  That's the nature of the game.  You don't truly know how good draft picks are until about Year 2-3, when they're already nearing free agency, and very soon will no longer become bargains.

The one player who I am suggesting we retain, Bilal Powell, was a former Jet draft pick.  I get the idea of letting UFA's go to get comp picks.  But you don't have to let all of them go, and I doubt Powell gets us a good comp pick anyways. 

It's easy to say that you can build a team purely through the draft, then let those former draft picks go at the end of their rookie deals and keep the cycle going.  But no team out there nails the draft with such success that they can actually do that. 

70s Steelers. 4 HOFs in one draft

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This isn't new information.  All the players I listed as being young, talented, and cheap were draft picks, and you basically rejected the list because we don't know how good they are yet. 

The one player who I am suggesting we retain, Bilal Powell, was a former Jet draft pick.  I get the idea of letting UFA's go to get comp picks.  But you don't have to let all of them go, and I doubt Powell gets us a good comp pick anyways. 

It's easy to say that you can build a team purely through the draft, then let those former draft picks go at the end of their rookie deals and keep the cycle going.  But no team out there nails the draft with such success that they can actually do that. 

Didn't Powell sign a one-year deal after his rookie contract? If so he doesn't get us a comp pick anyway.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

This isn't new information.  All the players I listed as being young, talented, and cheap were draft picks, and you basically rejected the list because we don't know how good they are yet. 

The one player who I am suggesting we retain, Bilal Powell, was a former Jet draft pick.  I get the idea of letting UFA's go to get comp picks.  But you don't have to let all of them go, and I doubt Powell gets us a good comp pick anyways. 

It's easy to say that you can build a team purely through the draft, then let those former draft picks go at the end of their rookie deals and keep the cycle going.  But no team out there nails the draft with such success that they can actually do that. 

Well, no.  I didn't disregard your list, I disregarded Amaro and Petty.  The others, you are correct.  And, you can't let all of your young talent go, some people have to get paid.  I also agree, I hope they keep Powell, I like him a lot.  We have some good cheap players, but not enough, and none on offense. 

Also, no one hits on every draft, but you need to string together a couple good ones in a row to seriously compete.

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1 hour ago, jett said:

I'm not worried at all. Anyone getting distraught we're not signing anyone big need to pay attention. We don't have a lot of money to spend right now, and that's ok. We could easily get way under with a few cuts but we're not going to add big contracts. We're going to build through the draft, that was Maccagnan's plan all along. People got out under a spell by all his spending last year thinking this was going to be the norm. We HAD to spend that money! Literally, had to.. So next year we will be under 50 million dollars. Do I expect him to go on another spending spree? No I absolutely do not. He might get 1 big name guy and use a lot of it to resign players. That's what I expect.  He won't be a big free agency guy I know this. He is all about the draft, as it should be. Spending bucks is where we get screwed in the long run. Ask tanny. We will be fine. I trust maccagnan.  This draft will be his most important draft of his career, even after it ends in my opinion 

He did not have to spend it, signing us up for new big dollars to new players, no matter how much it gets repeated. Any number of existing players could have been restructured with front loaded deals to pay them more in 2015 and push that available space to 2016 and beyond. 

Also it was not mandatory for him to backload some new contracts either, so Skrine and Gilchrist could count less in 2015 and more in 2016 (and beyond).

In short, he did not have to spend last year's and this year's cap space in 2016. Particularly when we didn't even have a known starting QB on the team.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He did not have to spend it, signing us up for new big dollars to new players, no matter how much it gets repeated. Any number of existing players could have been restructured with front loaded deals to pay them more in 2015 and push that available space to 2016 and beyond. 

Yes. Restructuring players from a 4-12 team when fans were yelling at Idzik to spend the money. That would have gone over well

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Coples, Hill, Davis, Milliner, Geno, Winters, Amaro, Mcdougle...who we've basically gotten zippo out of. If half of those guys are good players we'd be sitting a lot better as they'd be cheap.

Even Williams and Smith are question marks too. You cant miss on rounds 1 and two as consistently as the Jets have. Williams looks to be a good player...its just  unfortunate its at a position of overkill. 

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Just now, Matt39 said:

Coples, Hill, Davis, Milliner, Geno, Winters, Amaro, Mcdougle...who we've basically gotten zippo out of. If half of those guys are good players we'd be sitting a lot better as they'd be cheap.

Bingo. Those bad drafts are biting them right now.

Mac should not panic like fans not in the know

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1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Coples, Hill, Davis, Milliner, Geno, Winters, Amaro, Mcdougle...who we've basically gotten zippo out of. If half of those guys are good players we'd be sitting a lot better as they'd be cheap.

Well, not Coples anymore. He was due to count $7M or $8M this year if we kept him.

Milliner was really the worst hindsight value of all. A top 10 pick, the year we dealt Revis to Tampa, projected a handful of slots higher than where we got him, and he's had basically a decent handful of games towards the end of his rookie season and that's all we've gotten from him in 3 years. Freaking shame.

Then again the top half of that 1st round had a lot of future disappointments. People were screaming for (or hoping for a shot at) a guard - a guard - in the top 10, Tavon Austin, Mingo, and even Geno Smith with that #9 pick (or praying Dion Jordan would somehow drop to us). And GMs kind of knew it was a weak top back then, too: the value a couple of them got for trading down was Parcellsian level bad. The least risky seemed to be the offensive linemen so half the top 10 picks went to the OL and most of them were busts (or relative busts) as well. Pick of the litter was DeAndre Hopkins way down at #27, ironically at the one position the draft was said (back then) to have no clear round 1 worthy talents.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We're going to learn a lot more about Maccagnan this year, when he has spending constraints, than a year ago when he had the easier job of being handed a team with a bunch of holes (almost any available FA would have filled a hole on the 2015 roster back then), a mountain of available cap space to play with, and a fanbase and owner starved for big splashes after 2013-2014.

There's a time to go balls to the wall on FAs, when the team is so close or when forced to spend by the CBA, and a time to show restraint and realize that being a little better in one area can force us to be a lot worse in another (or in multiple other areas); or it can tie us to a guy for longer than we want him. Left to a popularity contest it would be no-brainers to bring back the likes of Fitz at $15M, Snacks at $8M, Mo at $15M, Ferguson at $14M. Pair the cost of that group with Revis $17M, Harris $7M, Mangold $9M, Marshall/Decker $17M, Gilchrist/Carpenter/Skrine $19M. Such fan-based GM'ing would have us close to the cap ceiling with limited space for 3 dozen other roster spots. And that's just to stay the same as we were in 2015 when we were 10-6 despite the massive fortune of an easy schedule we won't get again for many years. It leaves little room for actual improvement on the roster (outside nailing it with multiple instant-producers in the draft plus hopefully swapping Breno for a better veteran RT of roughly equal cap cost).

Perhaps, even though he's been around GMs for years before we hired him, he sees how his own job is handcuffed by the corner a team easily gets painted into, and the limitations it puts on him as GM, when the roster is so top-heavy. Particularly when it's top-heavy with guys who are now noticeably not what they were. He doesn't have to go to the opposite extreme tried unsuccessfully by Idzik, hoarding cap space that never gets used (or gets used badly, spending and committing to tens of millions in 2014 on Vick, CJ, Breno, Harvin, and extending Kerley). What a waste. Besides, that save-the-cap-space strategy is only useful if you're drafting well, so you can then pounce on the most expensive FAs when your needs are fewer and more targeted, and we see how those drafts turned out.

Anyway it will be interesting. So far I'm encouraged that he isn't panicking the team into commitments to players from whom he knows the team needs to upgrade, or who he knows the team can't carry at those high dollars if we're to keep improving the overall roster. Some are infuriated by those same non-moves. I think everyone realizes we can't improve by bringing back every high priced FA of ours who was cheap the prior season. We'll find out how wisely Mac has chosen. In the end, we all just want a winner.

Go Jets!

Remember too that last year's draft was with Idzik's scouts. Plus Macc has to take responsibility for this year's cap w last year's spending spree.  I know he had to get above the cap minimum but he could've stopped at some point after rather than maxing out.  

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25 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes. Restructuring players from a 4-12 team when fans were yelling at Idzik to spend the money. That would have gone over well

Who cares if it would have gone over well? Idzik was fired and he'd already made a big splash with Revis and signed a couple others. What would have gone over poorly -- not forking over $7M to Cromartie last year? No one other than Cro's 20 kids and their 20 mothers would have said a word if they saw Cro sign a 4 year $32M contract someplace else. It's not smart to make poor use of our finite cap space because one is worried about the March headlines. 

If he played it smart and drafted well he shouldn't worry about fans pissed off at Idzik for spending little, then spending poorly, and drafting badly all along the way.

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