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Brandon Marshall’s QB opinion ‘doesn’t matter’: Bowles


JustInFudge

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

They could just say, "Brick is on the team".  No need to say "for now".   Saying "for now" is implying he may not be for long and I dont think that's fair to Brick or the players on the team who respect him because he's been such a huge part of this team and a tremendous leader.  You should treat your people mo'better.  Especially a home grown guy like Brick.

We can agree to disagree.  

So, no back up plan other than a rookie but lets cut someone because of too much money.  And the money is holding us back from what exactly? 

The money is holding us up from building a competitive 53-man roster.  The offseason in regards to free agency and trades is not over, and unless we're happy with the current depth charts at those spots, we have pretty gaping holes/needs at QB, ILB, OLB, RG TE2/H-Back, P, and on the special teams unit.  Not ALL of those are going to get addressed through the draft. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The money is holding us up from building a competitive 53-man roster.  The offseason in regards to free agency and trades is not over, and unless we're happy with the current depth charts at those spots, we have pretty gaping holes/needs at QB, ILB, OLB, RG TE2/H-Back, P, and on the special teams unit.  Not ALL of those are going to get addressed through the draft. 

What FA's are demanding crazy money that the Jets are missing out on who are going to help this team?  Most of the good ones are signed.

And cutting Brick leaves a gaping hole at LT.  You realize you will have to pay his replacement, right?  And you realize LT's make the most out of any OLmen, right?

 

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7 minutes ago, JiF said:

What FA's are demanding crazy money that the Jets are missing out on who are going to help this team?  Most of the good ones are signed.

And cutting Brick leaves a gaping hole at LT.  You realize you will have to pay his replacement, right?  And you realize LT's make the most out of any OLmen, right?

 

No big name FA's are out there.  But between draft picks and 2-3 low level signings, you can easily total up a big chunk of that $14.1M.  Keep in mind there's always surprise names that come available later in the game, such as after June 1st. 

No, we would not have to pay his replacement big money.  If we went the FA route, his replacement would be significantly cheaper.  The best names out there right now are guys like Will Beatty, Jake Long, Khalif Barnes, or Tyler Polumbus.  They'd cost a fraction of Brick and probably wouldn't be a huge dropoff. 

Remember, Brick really isn't any good anymore.  We forget this because last season we had a QB capable of getting the ball out quick and didn't run the ball to Brick's side very often. But he's been on a steep decline and will only get worse.  You might scoff at those names, but I highly doubt anyone will be running out to sign Brick. 

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56 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the team has no leverage with Brick. they don't even have a Qvale type replacement at LT on the roster. Brick has started every game at Left tackle since 2007.

The Fitz situation they can at least pretend to go with Geno. Or even Petty.

But there literally is only one LT on the roster. Guys like Beachum are off the market. Who else would be the starter in 2016 if not Brick? 

And Brick knows all this plus if he gets cut he gets another starting job in 5 minutes.  Why exactly should he take a pay cut? Because Jets fans want him to? BFD. 

Well we don't know how he feels about living where he is and his family situation.  Wife likes area?  Kids in school?  Those can be a factor.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Well we don't know how he feels about living where he is and his family situation.  Wife likes area?  Kids in school?  Those can be a factor.

the guy from Roosevelt who went to school in Babylon is probably just fine with living in the area.  he's got a baby but like 2 or 3, not school age. 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

It's bizarre, just last week he was saying something along the lines of "how do you know we were healthy enough" when it pertained to jamming/pressing Sammy Watkins.  And now he's saying he didnt even know Revis was injured?  WTF?  Your star corner that you're paying QB money for and you didnt even know he was injured and supposedly it happened in like week 3 or 4?

 

Maybe he's covering his ass by saying he had no clue. Not reporting injuries is a big no-no, so I'm sure even if he knew (which he probably did), he's going to claim he didn't.

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

It's bizarre, just last week he was saying something along the lines of "how do you know we were healthy enough" when it pertained to jamming/pressing Sammy Watkins.  And now he's saying he didnt even know Revis was injured?  WTF?  Your star corner that you're paying QB money for and you didnt even know he was injured and supposedly it happened in like week 3 or 4?

 

Are you suggesting something isn't passing the smell test?

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

the team has no leverage with Brick. they don't even have a Qvale type replacement at LT on the roster. Brick has started every game at Left tackle since 2007.

The Fitz situation they can at least pretend to go with Geno. Or even Petty.

But there literally is only one LT on the roster. Guys like Beachum are off the market. Who else would be the starter in 2016 if not Brick? 

And Brick knows all this plus if he gets cut he gets another starting job in 5 minutes.  Why exactly should he take a pay cut? Because Jets fans want him to? BFD. 

:rl: 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No big name FA's are out there.  But between draft picks and 2-3 low level signings, you can easily total up a big chunk of that $14.1M.  Keep in mind there's always surprise names that come available later in the game, such as after June 1st. 

No, we would not have to pay his replacement big money.  If we went the FA route, his replacement would be significantly cheaper.  The best names out there right now are guys like Will Beatty, Jake Long, Khalif Barnes, or Tyler Polumbus.  They'd cost a fraction of Brick and probably wouldn't be a huge dropoff. 

Remember, Brick really isn't any good anymore.  We forget this because last season we had a QB capable of getting the ball out quick and didn't run the ball to Brick's side very often. But he's been on a steep decline and will only get worse.  You might scoff at those names, but I highly doubt anyone will be running out to sign Brick. 

You say that now but just wait till you actually see a not so good LT.  Huge difference between those guys and Brick. 

As bad as people like to make him out to be, which he wasnt, Fitz was still the least sacked QB in the league and the Jets were one of 6 teams to produce a 1,000 yard rusher.

I'm not saying Brick is worth the money, I'm saying this fanbase takes what he does for granted.  You think its easy to replace a LT, until you have to. 

 

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

You say that now but just wait till you actually see a not so good LT.  Huge difference between those guys and Brick. 

As bad as people like to make him out to be, which he wasnt, Fitz was still the least sacked QB in the league and the Jets were one of 6 teams to produce a 1,000 yard rusher.

I'm not saying Brick is worth the money, I'm saying this fanbase takes what he does for granted.  You think its easy to replace a LT, until you have to. 

 

Fitz got the ball out very quickly and knew when to run better than just about any QB in the league this past season (its true, his efficiency numbers when it came to running were fantastic).  Get a QB who likes to take big dropbacks and just see how many sacks Ferguson would give up.  He was getting punked out there all season long, and it cost us big-time in that final Bills game. 

There's really not a huge gap between the list I gave and Brick.  Not anymore.  If this were 2013 you'd have a case.  No longer.  He simply can't handle speed rushers anywhere close to how he used to, and that used to be his biggest strength.  Now he's just an average pass blocker and a weak run blocker.  Not worth $14M.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fitz got the ball out very quickly and knew when to run better than just about any QB in the league this past season (its true, his efficiency numbers when it came to running were fantastic).  Get a QB who likes to take big dropbacks and just see how many sacks Ferguson would give up.  He was getting punked out there all season long, and it cost us big-time in that final Bills game. 

There's really not a huge gap between the list I gave and Brick.  Not anymore.  If this were 2013 you'd have a case.  No longer.

You say that now.

All good.  Agree to disagree.

The bottom line is, no matter how you feel about him, I dont think it's appropriate for the team to be throwing out this "for now" bull sh*t.  No need for it.  Sends a bad message to the team and would be FA's, IMO. 

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2 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

They are treating him badly by not making a decision before now.   If he is going to be cut he deserves to be cut early so he can find another team.   He is not being treated badly because of being cut.

This could be a product of the Jets coming to him with a restructure offer, and his team balking at it. The longer the team drags it out, the more leverage they have as free agent money dries up, and teams find their left tackles in the draft. May not be nice or fair or whatever, but it's good business.

And as far as the treatment overall goes, Mac and Bowles have zero ties to this guy. They've been here one year, and have seen one year of subpar LT play that's scheduled to cost them another $9M this year. That's all they are -or should be- looking at. 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They should be looking at alternatives as well. Real ones. Not pie in the sky Brent Qvale will be the starter BS. 

Who is left out there? Will beatty? 

Sure.  Will Beatty for $8-10M would be a better solution than Ferguson at $14M.

Alternative:  Cut Ferguson, re-sign him at $8M-$10M.

Either works for me.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure.  Will Beatty for $8-10M would be a better solution than Ferguson at $14M.

Alternative:  Cut Ferguson, re-sign him at $8M-$10M.

Either works for me.

the problem with Beatty (and Okung and Beachum) is that a player in the training room or on IR isn't actually earning his money.

a 10 mil guy on IR is not a better deal than a 14 mil guy who plays. Brick might be overpaid but he doesn't miss time. 

Beatty tore his rotator cuff and his pectoral and missed the entire 2015 season.  Looking it up, he's not even healthy enough to work out for teams right now. 

https://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/22/is-will-beatty-the-answer-to-seahawks-left-tackle-question/

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This "leverage" you speak of on Ferguson's end is mythical, Bit.  All the top free agent LT's have been signed.  Who is handing Ferguson more money than the Jets would at this point?

the Jets have no replacements that's Brick's leverage. The fact that all the top LT's are off the market only helps him. Who will pay him more? No one but as Jets fans we should be worried about who will be the LT. 

We had this conversation months ago and all those names are gone. Glenn, Osemele etc. Who is the Jets LT next year? That's Bricks' leverage. 

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the problem with Beatty (and Okung and Beachum) is that a player in the training room or on IR isn't actually earning his money.

a 10 mil guy on IR is not a better deal than a 14 mil guy who plays. Brick might be overpaid but he doesn't miss time. 

Beatty tore his rotator cuff and his pectoral and missed the entire 2015 season.  Looking it up, he's not even healthy enough to work out for teams right now. 

https://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/22/is-will-beatty-the-answer-to-seahawks-left-tackle-question/

LT's were dropping like flies last year...

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the problem with Beatty (and Okung and Beachum) is that a player in the training room or on IR isn't actually earning his money.

a 10 mil guy on IR is not a better deal than a 14 mil guy who plays. Brick might be overpaid but he doesn't miss time. 

Beatty tore his rotator cuff and his pectoral and missed the entire 2015 season.  Looking it up, he's not even healthy enough to work out for teams right now. 

https://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/22/is-will-beatty-the-answer-to-seahawks-left-tackle-question/

Paying a guy $14.1M just because he doesn't get hurt is like...........paying a guy $14.1M because he doesn't get hurt.  I don't have a good analogy, because there's no weaker reason a human being can come up with for paying a guy that much money to play a game. 

If the best thing Brick brings to the table is durability, he'll gladly come back and re-sign with us for cheaper after we cut him.  Because no one is paying him more than $10M on the open market.

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13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets have no replacements that's Brick's leverage. The fact that all the top LT's are off the market only helps him. Who will pay him more? No one but as Jets fans we should be worried about who will be the LT. 

We had this conversation months ago and all those names are gone. Glenn, Osemele etc. Who is the Jets LT next year? That's Bricks' leverage. 

QFT

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 there's no weaker reason a human being can come up with for paying a guy that much money to play a game. 

It will take a high pick to replace the left tackle. The Jets are either reaching at 20 or keeping Brick.  Maybe both cause there's no day 1 starter LT available at 20. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Paying a guy $14.1M just because he doesn't get hurt is like...........paying a guy $14.1M because he doesn't get hurt.  I don't have a good analogy, because there's no weaker reason a human being can come up with for paying a guy that much money to play a game. 

If the best thing Brick brings to the table is durability, he'll gladly come back and re-sign with us for cheaper after we cut him.  Because no one is paying him more than $10M on the open market.

Huh?  You cant be serious.  You want an injury prone guy who's liable to get you to a back up LT because he's a few mil cheaper?  That makes zero sense to me.  Durability for OLmen is a very good thing.  

Now as to your last point, I agree.  I've been saying it for a while.  Nobody is going to pay Brick what the Jets are scheduled to pay him, so they should approach him about a restructure so it doesnt have to come to a cut and sign. 

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23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure.  Will Beatty for $8-10M would be a better solution than Ferguson at $14M.

Alternative:  Cut Ferguson, re-sign him at $8M-$10M.

Either works for me.

The problem with this is that he's only making $9M this year. The other $5M is money he already received, so giving a jag a $7M contract would only save us $2M. 

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14 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

The problem with this is that he's only making $9M this year. The other $5M is money he already received, so giving a jag a $7M contract would only save us $2M. 

Exactly and even though brick hasn't been great, continuity for an OL is important

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Just now, cant wait said:

Exactly and even though brick hasn't been great, continuity for an OL is important

Would have still preferred a one-year prove it deal for Beachum/someone, even for the same cost of $9M, though. Seems that all those guys are gone. 

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More and more I think Jets fans have been spoiled by our LT.

Never gets hurt, never causes a problem, game has slipped from pro bowl status to decent.

Mean while there are teams that have signed 'top notch' FA Lt that gets hurt, drafted LT high that is a bust, tried to go cheap and gets their Qb slaughtered.  All in the career time of DBrick.  Because LT has been either a position of strength for 10 years or at least something you don't have to worry about it is now viewed as something we can easily rejig.

DBrick is over paid and his play is slipping, he will be restructured or cut this year or certainly next year.  Don't for a moment assume we will be lucky enough to find another decent LT and that problem with go away for another 10 years.  Good, durable, long term LT's are like gold and very hard to find.

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5 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

Would have still preferred a one-year prove it deal for Beachum/someone, even for the same cost of $9M, though. Seems that all those guys are gone. 

That was probably Mac's thinking too, sign beachum and either cut brick or make him take a pay cut

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Re Dbrick, lets look at the Dolphins left tackle history in the time D'Brick has been here.

Had a bunch of jags.

Drafted Jake Long 1st overall, he lasted about 4 years before getting hurt and then let go.

Drafted Jonathan Martin, he lasted about 2 years not being very good before being bullied out.

Signed Branden Albert to a huge long term FA deal (the last two years he has played 14 and 9 games)

Used the following top 3 rounds trying to fix the tackle position.

Jake Long 1-1

Juwan James 1-19

Jonathan Martin 2-42

Billy Turner  3-61

Dallas Thomas 3-77

It's not easy to find a long term solution.

 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Re Dbrick, lets look at the Dolphins left tackle history in the time D'Brick has been here.

Had a bunch of jags.

Drafted Jake Long 1st overall, he lasted about 4 years before getting hurt and then let go.

Drafted Jonathan Martin, he lasted about 2 years not being very good before being bullied out.

Signed Branden Albert to a huge long term FA deal (the last two years he has played 14 and 9 games)

Used the following top 3 rounds trying to fix the tackle position.

Jake Long 1-1

Juwan James 1-19

Jonathan Martin 2-42

Billy Turner  3-61

Dallas Thomas 3-77

It's not easy to find a long term solution.

 

 

 

 

 

Which is why we should also be looking to draft OT early in the draft regardless of who we pay to be our LT this year.  Whether its Brick (not at $14M though) or anyone else, we need to figure out our long-term plan at both LT and RT. 

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These comments are not those of a coach who is trying to earn the respect of his players. Whether Brick goes or not, his years of service to this team as a top flight tackle deserve more respect than what Bowles is giving him. 

And come to think of Bowles' performance last season... I thought he was a defensive minded coach? He had a great secondary, the best run stuffer in the league and pro bowl pass rushers. The Jets D should have been up there with Denver's. Instead we got owned by sub-500 teams like the Eagles, Bills Raiders and Texans. His coaching vs the Bills in the season ending loss was pretty inept.

Maybe Bowles should listen to Marshall a little bit - the player who was more responsible for 10 wins last year than Bowles

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