Shopping Mo ?

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, shuler82 said:

This comp pick that everyone is talking about in 2017 probably isn't happening. The Jets have a lot of money to spend in 2017 and will be signing FAs of their own. 

I wasnt confirming anything, just what was possible. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

we will probably get a 2nd.  Hopefully a higher 2nd.  DLs just do not merit those kinds of guarantees.  He finally got some sacks this year but he is not a pure pass rush guy.  A pure pass rusher is far more valuable.  Paying corners and DLs ridiculous money is a formula for disaster.  You pay offensive left tackles, pure pass rushers, and franchise or close to franchise QBs.  I say "close to" because the QB talent level seems to be diminishing some.

I agree. We could get it based on the fact that the Cards traded a 2nd and a player for Jones. The difference is that whoever trades for him is going to have to pay 16 million dollars per year. Its not the same if we traded him last year and only paying 7 million. The price is also going to dictate the terms I believe. This is why I feel like our best chance to trade Wilk was last year. 

It'll be tough to expect a team to give up a 2nd round pick, and 100 million dollars for Mo Wilkerson...especially after seeing how that Suh deal is looking currently.

Thats alot of money and a high draft pick. We would have had a better chance last year dealing with just a 7 million dollar contract. 

[The Engineer]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree. We could get it based on the fact that the Cards traded a 2nd and a player for Jones. The difference is that whoever trades for him is going to have to pay 16 million dollars per year. Its not the same if we traded him last year and only paying 7 million. The price is also going to dictate the terms I believe. This is why I feel like our best chance to trade Wilk was last year. 

It'll be tough to expect a team to give up a 2nd round pick, and 100 million dollars for Mo Wilkerson. 

Trading MO for anything other than a 1st isn't worth it. I don't think teams with this deep of a draft at the DL position would do that. However, packaging up MO and our first plus a conditional next year should be enough to get us up to get a potential franchise QB. Any other plan than that is giving away an elite player hoping a new one lives up to that. Unless its for a QB, franchise him next year too and let this play out then.

[jack48]

13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree. We could get it based on the fact that the Cards traded a 2nd and a player for Jones. The difference is that whoever trades for him is going to have to pay 16 million dollars per year. Its not the same if we traded him last year and only paying 7 million. The price is also going to dictate the terms I believe. This is why I feel like our best chance to trade Wilk was last year. 

It'll be tough to expect a team to give up a 2nd round pick, and 100 million dollars for Mo Wilkerson...especially after seeing how that Suh deal is looking currently.

Thats alot of money and a high draft pick. We would have had a better chance last year dealing with just a 7 million dollar contract. 

You are probably right. I wanted them to do it before last year, too.  I don't think Macc ever intended to keep him.  But Sheldon went from a bad boy to a stick of dynamite and put them on the spot.  They will always be on the spot with him, it seems.  That guy is a great talent, but we cannot keep him either.  Don't know why a lot of posters seem to be down on Leonard W.  Didn't anyone watch Mo's first year.  He did not exactly set the world on fire.

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, The Engineer said:

Trading MO for anything other than a 1st isn't worth it. I don't think teams with this deep of a draft at the DL position would do that. However, packaging up MO and our first plus a conditional next year should be enough to get us up to get a potential franchise QB. Any other plan than that is giving away an elite player hoping a new one lives up to that. Unless its for a QB, franchise him next year too and let this play out then.

Oh, I get it now. You're trying to justify in your head this scenario which isnt really about Mo at all, but about the Jets finding a way to trade up in order to get a QB that we shouldnt be drafting because we have more pressing needs. 

 

Look, I honestly dont believe that any team would trade for a guy who isnt an elite player along with our 1st rounder, for their 1st rounder AND have to pay Mo a 100+ million dollar contract. 

We need to trade Mo. If we get a 1st for him I'd be f'ing surprised. Im looking at more of a 2nd, or 3rd/player. Also, We need to draft offensive linemen. Trade Mo for Glennon and their 3rd rounder which would give the Jets 4 picks in the first 3 rounds and draft 3 Olineman and a OLB. 

I'd rather have an experienced young QB with a revamped Oline than a rookie QB with no Oline resources. That wouldnt be a great way to start off his career. 

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

So, the notion that Wilkerson is the best defensive player on the roster is comical. He’s not. It’s Richardson.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-mailbag-mo-wilkerson-desire-traded-article-1.2583900

This is still a no

We've done the "trade the team's best player to spare Woody's wallet" thing a few times. It's resulted in a center, the team stoner, and alot of meh.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Oh, I get it now. You're trying to justify in your head this scenario which isnt really about Mo at all, but about the Jets finding a way to trade up in order to get a QB that we shouldnt be drafting because we have more pressing needs. 

 

Look, I honestly dont believe that any team would trade for a guy who isnt an elite player along with our 1st rounder, for their 1st rounder AND have to pay Mo a 100+ million dollar contract. 

We need to trade Mo. If we get a 1st for him I'd be f'ing surprised. Im looking at more of a 2nd, or 3rd/player. Also, We need to draft offensive linemen. Trade Mo for Glennon and their 3rd rounder which would give the Jets 4 picks in the first 3 rounds and draft 3 Olineman and a OLB. 

How the hell can we trade MO for a draft pick that is a "what if" player who may never make this team in the first place look at the past history. 

MO is a top 5 DL in the NFL you restructure contracts and cut players to keep MO on this roster you dont trade him for NOTHING

 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

This is still a no

 

What do ya mean?  Sheldon isn't the best defensive player we have?

[SenorGato]

Just now, Mike135 said:

What do ya mean?  Sheldon isn't the best defensive player we have?

Sheldon isn't the best defensive player on the Jets.

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

How the hell can we trade MO for a draft pick that is a "what if" player who may never make this team in the first place look at the past history. 

MO is a top 5 DL in the NFL you restructure contracts and cut players to keep MO on this roster you dont trade him for NOTHING

 

I say trade him for Glennon and a 3rd round pick. 

You cover your QB vacancy and pick up a mid round pick in order to pick up another Olineman or OLB. 

 

Mo Wilkerson doesnt win football games. I dont care how much of a favorite he is to people, Leonard Williams was drafted for a reason. We knew this day was coming...lets not pretend like we didnt. 

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Sheldon isn't the best defensive player on the Jets.

Debatable but I'd probably say he is.  Factor in age (future worth), and he most definitely is.

If he can just cleanup his act off the field, we have a potential All-Pro for many years to come in Sheldon.

[jett]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

The organization believes that Sheldon Richardson, who is awaiting whether he’ll be suspended for his off-field transgression last year, is the more valuable piece to the puzzle. That belief is shared by virtually every NFL talent evaluator (GMs, scouts, etc), who I’ve spoken to in the past year.

Wilkerson is a quality player, for sure, but Richardson is the more versatile and athletic one. So, the notion that Wilkerson is the best defensive player on the roster is comical. He’s not. It’s Richardson.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-mailbag-mo-wilkerson-desire-traded-article-1.2583900

Ding Ding Ding dingggggg we have a winner. 

[The Engineer]

15 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Oh, I get it now. You're trying to justify in your head this scenario which isnt really about Mo at all, but about the Jets finding a way to trade up in order to get a QB that we shouldnt be drafting because we have more pressing needs. 

 

Look, I honestly dont believe that any team would trade for a guy who isnt an elite player along with our 1st rounder, for their 1st rounder AND have to pay Mo a 100+ million dollar contract. 

We need to trade Mo. If we get a 1st for him I'd be f'ing surprised. Im looking at more of a 2nd, or 3rd/player. Also, We need to draft offensive linemen. Trade Mo for Glennon and their 3rd rounder which would give the Jets 4 picks in the first 3 rounds and draft 3 Olineman and a OLB. 

I'd rather have an experienced young QB with a revamped Oline than a rookie QB with no Oline resources. That wouldnt be a great way to start off his career. 

Im not justifying anything in my head. MO is an asset, due to our current DL, he's an expendable asset. You utilize the assets you have in order to make your team better. In this case a draft pick would probably not make the team better. Using this asset trying to get a potential franchise QB is a risk, but of all the scenarios, its a risk a smart team should make.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I say trade him for Glennon and a 3rd round pick. 

You cover your QB vacancy and pick up a mid round pick in order to pick up another Olineman or OLB. 

 

Mo Wilkerson doesnt win football games. I dont care how much of a favorite he is to people, Leonard Williams was drafted for a reason. We knew this day was coming...lets not pretend like we didnt. 

Glennon is not the answer I like your loyalty to him but really if he was so good he wouldn't be sitting on the bench in Tampa Bay and they wouldn't have drafted Winston.

[no psls]

2 minutes ago, jett said:

Ding Ding Ding dingggggg we have a winner. 

Richardson is a time bomb , waiting to explode (all over Woody's stupid Jet hat ) .

[SenorGato]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Debatable but I'd probably say he is.  Factor in age (future worth), and he most definitely is.

If he can just cleanup his act off the field, we have a potential All-Pro for many years to come in Sheldon.

Richardson's 13 months younger than Wilkerson, age difference and percieved upside based on stuff and things aren't worth much. 

Wilkerson's not only the best player on the defense, but the best overall player on the roster period. He's a 315+ pounder who can handle any DL assignment to a high level, and he's done it playing something like 85% of the snaps in his career. There's maybe a handful of those guys in the league, and he's done it longer than the majority of them. 

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, The Engineer said:

Im not justifying anything in my head. MO is an asset, due to our current DL, he's an expendable asset. You utilize the assets you have in order to make your team better. In this case a draft pick would probably not make the team better. Using this asset trying to get a potential franchise QB is a risk, but of all the scenarios, its a risk a smart team should make.

Yes, he's an asset, but Im only posing this to you in order for you to ask yourself..."am I being realistic". 

 

Let me put it to you this way. Instead of taking the position of the Jets, if you were the GM of any of the teams holding a top 5/10 pick. Would you trade out of your spot to the 20th spot and trade for Mo along with giving him a contract that could be bigger than Watts? 

 

Which GM/Team do you think would do this? 

 

This is exactly why I felt why we should have traded him last year. Atleast you didnt have to give up a 100+ million dollar contract, all you had to do is pay him 7 million along with having an entire year to negotiate something or even franchising him and trading him as well. 

 

The contract that will come with WIlk is the biggest problem with the trade. I dont think there is a team that will give up a top pick and pay that amount of money for a guy who is an asset, but not a franchise player. 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Richardson's 13 months younger than Wilkerson, age difference and percieved upside based on stuff and things aren't worth much. 

Wilkerson's not only the best player on the defense, but the best overall player on the roster period. He's a 315+ pounder who can handle any DL assignment to a high level, and he's done it playing something like 85% of the snaps in his career. 

This.  It's like we're watching a different team out there.  Seriously, there isnt even a debate. 

[The Engineer]

7 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Richardson's 13 months younger than Wilkerson, age difference and percieved upside based on stuff and things aren't worth much. 

Wilkerson's not only the best player on the defense, but the best overall player on the roster period. He's a 315+ pounder who can handle any DL assignment to a high level, and he's done it playing something like 85% of the snaps in his career. There's maybe a handful of those guys in the league, and he's done it longer than the majority of thm.

Agreed, and its not close. Its obvious on the field. For those of us that don't think fitz = brady at least.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Richardson's 13 months younger than Wilkerson, age difference and percieved upside based on stuff and things aren't worth much. 

Wilkerson's not only the best player on the defense, but the best overall player on the roster period. He's a 315+ pounder who can handle any DL assignment to a high level, and he's done it playing something like 85% of the snaps in his career. 

I'm not gonna knock Wilk.  He's great.  However I think Sheldon is better. Heck, I'd love to have Wilk, Sheldon and Williams locked up for the next 6 years.  Just not likely having three great players at one position.

 

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I'm not gonna knock Wilk.  He's great.  However I think Sheldon is better. Heck, I'd love to have Wilk, Sheldon and Williams locked up for the next 6 years.  Just not likely having three great players at one position.

The issue with this is that Richardson isn't better. Just the difference in quantity between the two separates them - last year Wilkerson played ~90% of the D snaps and Richardson played something like 55-56%. Richardson's Robin to Wilkerson's Batman, and Leonard Williams is making for a waaaaaaaaay better Robin than Richardson.

[The Engineer]

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Yes, he's an asset, but Im only posing this to you in order for you to ask yourself..."am I being realistic". 

 

Let me put it to you this way. Instead of taking the position of the Jets, if you were the GM of any of the teams holding a top 5/10 pick. Would you trade out of your spot to the 20th spot and trade for Mo along with giving him a contract that could be bigger than Watts? 

 

Which GM/Team do you think would do this? 

 

This is exactly why I felt why we should have traded him last year. Atleast you didnt have to give up a 100+ million dollar contract, all you had to do is pay him 7 million along with having an entire year to negotiate something or even franchising him and trading him as well. 

 

The contract that will come with WIlk is the biggest problem with the trade. I dont think there is a team that will give up a top pick and pay that amount of money for a guy who is an asset, but not a franchise player. 

If I was a team with cap space and that could handle it, I would in a heartbeat trade for a MO caliber player while retaining a top 20 pick. Probably a conditional as well. Regardless if this is realistic or not, this is my interpretation of possibly using an asset that we rarely have, to try and land a "potential" franchise QB, who we haven't had in many many years. Obviously there are risks with QB's, very aware of that. I just know what it feels like watching Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, etc for years and trying to force the next guy (Geno or whomever) to possibly get to that level.

[jett]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The issue with this is that Richardson isn't better. Just the difference in quantity between the two separates them - last year Wilkerson played ~90% of the D snaps and Richardson played something like 55-56%. Richardson's Robin to Wilkerson's Batman, and Leonard Williams is making for a waaaaaaaaay better Robin than Richardson.

Nope

[SenorGato]

Just now, jett said:

Nope

Nope to the nope

[jett]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

This.  It's like we're watching a different team out there.  Seriously, there isnt even a debate. 

You're right we are watching a different team apparently.  And there isn't even a debate? Really? How ignorant can you be. 

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, jett said:

You're right we are watching a different team apparently.  And there isn't even a debate? Really? How ignorant can you be. 

There's a debate because this is America and debate is good. It should be a short debate with Wilkerson the clear winner.

[jett]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Nope to the nope

Lmao. 

I will agree that Leonard could be the best out of all of them tho

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, The Engineer said:

If I was a team with cap space and that could handle it, I would in a heartbeat trade for a MO caliber player while retaining a top 20 pick. Probably a conditional as well. Regardless if this is realistic or not, this is my interpretation of possibly using an asset that we rarely have, to try and land a "potential" franchise QB, who we haven't had in many many years. Obviously there are risks with QB's, very aware of that. I just know what it feels like watching Brady, Big Ben, Rogers, etc for years and trying to force the next guy (Geno or whomever) to possibly get to that level.

Well, if you're saying "regardless if this is realistic or not" that kinda telling actually. Yes its your interpretation, but shouldnt it be realistic? If not then whats the point? 

Also, I know you would in a heartbeat, given your interpretation, but I didnt ask you about what you would do personally, I said look at those teams in the top spots and you tell me which one you think would "realistically" trade this pick and pay Mo Watt money. 

 

[detectivekimble]

6 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Ridiculous.

He's probably the second best defensive lineman in the league and he absolutely makes QB's worry - Getting hit by him isn't fun and he's very consistent. We were in top 5 in term of pressuring QB's with Mo being the key guy. That shocks a lot of people here because people only focus on the times where the QB actually makes a mistake when giving credit. No one notices when the opposing QB makes a great play under pressure, everyone notices the plays where there's no pressure. Hence lack of pass rush is the most common complaint around the league. Brady played one of the best QB games I've ever seen in the loss against us last season and his stats were mediocre.

I'd argue he's the most important player in the team and while we are very fortunate to have two studs on the line regardless, we'll notice his absence for sure. I think we'll have the best line in the league next season if they're playing together because they're all getting better. 

Speed Rushers are more overrated than a guy like Mo. He's invaluable. 

He's probably not.

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, jett said:

I will agree that Leonard could be the best out of all of them tho

Praise Jah, was really worried you wouldn't

[detectivekimble]

6 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

 

Brilliant article from PFF to back up what I'm saying.

Games are won and lost on the lines - This is an elite player in a high value position, more valuable than a speed rusher IMO. Keeping Mo ensures the strength of our team will only get better. Guy is the model pro, undoubtedly a huge influence in the locker room too. You don't lose guys like this without noticing, we don't realise this because we don't have too many players like this. It will be an incredible blow. 

I don't know. Maybe I'm too sentimental for American Sports. I get the logic that we have cover and that we need the cap room but it legit saddens me to see people so prepared to discard one of the best Jets I've seen in my lifetime to make room for a hypothetical pass rusher unlikely to match his production. Sigh...

That article sure doesn't say he's the second best DL in the league.

[joewilly12]

We still have the best DL in the NFL Mo,Sheldon and Williams add Jenkins are we now a 4-3 or what? 

[Mike135]

14 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The issue with this is that Richardson isn't better. Just the difference in quantity between the two separates them - last year Wilkerson played ~90% of the D snaps and Richardson played something like 55-56%. Richardson's Robin to Wilkerson's Batman, and Leonard Williams is making for a waaaaaaaaay better Robin than Richardson.

It's not an easy choice.  (Like how we should definitely choose Geno @1.6mil over Fitz @7mil).  But I think this year you'll see Sheldon outperform Wilk.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Mike135 said:

It's not a an easy choice.  (Like how we should definitely choose Geno @1.6mil over Fitz @7mil).  But I think this year you'll see Sheldon outperform Wilk.

Damn straight go with Geno trade down in the draft draft 1 of the top 3

[SenorGato]

7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

It's not a an easy choice.  (Like how we should definitely choose Geno @1.6mil over Fitz @7mil).  But I think this year you'll see Sheldon outperform Wilk.

It's a pretty easy choice. One guy plays all the time at a high level and the other guy fits in playing at a high level in between suspensions and riding the bench.

On top of it, the latter goes out and gets in trouble after promising he was done getting in trouble. On top of that, he's already talked of seeking Suh money in FA.