Muhammad Wilkerson Windy City Bound?

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Revis couldn't keep up with good young receivers like Hopkins. And in a few games he was spun around like a top. He played too much off of receivers and doesn't have the coverage skills or on the field presence he used to have. Remember when Brandon Marshall was on Miami and Revis physically and mentally abused him. But he still has great leadership ability and hopefully can return to form after an off year for him. He isn't close to being the shut down corner he used to be. 

Revis struggled with 2 WRs, Hopkins and Watkins (only in the 2nd matchup). To make a statment like "good young receivers like Hopkins" implies that every team has "good" WRs like this. Hopkins is GREAT. 

Revis is going to shut down 90% of the guys he lines up against. That's about as good as it gets. 

Revis is exactly the same CB he used to be, by and large. He got beat at times when he was younger too, like by Randy Moss, and during his season with the Patriots a LOT.

The league really isn't set up for "shut down corners" to even exist.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

We'd want to be getting a lot more than that. It would make sense if we're incredibly high on Lynch though.

We'd want it, but more is only available if someone offers more. You can't pick your compensation unless you're willing to eat his franchise tag contract and then let him go a year later. Moving up from #20 to #11 is the value of the #50 overall pick. It's not great, but it's not nothing either. At least - if that much is on the table - it's more than we would have gotten by just letting him go without tagging him in the first place.

#50 overall this year is loosely the value of a late #1 (or at worst, the top-few picks in round 2) next year. It's really not that horrible. If I knew we could get a #1 pick next year I'd be totally fine with that.

[Irish Jet]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We'd want it, but more is only available if someone offers more. You can't pick your compensation unless you're willing to eat his franchise tag contract and then let him go a year later. Moving up from #20 to #11 is the value of the #50 overall pick. It's not great, but it's not nothing either. At least - if that much is on the table - it's more than we would have gotten by just letting him go without tagging him in the first place.

#50 overall this year is loosely the value of a late #1 (or at worst, the top-few picks in round 2) next year. It's really not that horrible. If I knew we could get a #1 pick next year I'd be totally fine with that.

I'd keep him for another year, personally.

[AFJF]

Interesting take from former Bears director of college scouting Greg Gabriel.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

I'd keep him for another year, personally.

And you'd get nothing for him. We're not extending him so you'd get one more year at $16M, while we don't need him, when we're not superbowl contenders. Then you'd lose him for nothing because we're going to lose that comp pick next year with all the extra cap room we'll have to spend.

Recipe for not building a long-term winner IMO.

[AFJF]

 

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

 

This is what I have been saying. 

[Irish Jet]

15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And you'd get nothing for him. We're not extending him so you'd get one more year at $16M, while we don't need him, when we're not superbowl contenders. Then you'd lose him for nothing because we're going to lose that comp pick next year with all the extra cap room we'll have to spend.

Recipe for not building a long-term winner IMO.

Don't we have cap room next season? We could make a decision to extend either him or Sheldon and let the other go.

[AFJF]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

This is what I have been saying. 

Me too, but I've been swayed a bit over the past few weeks in looking at the cash a team will have to lay out.  I think I initially predicted they'd get a 1 and a 3.  Now thinking a high 2 from a team like Jax or Dallas.  Hopefully my first instinct winds up being more in line with reality.

[CrazyCarl40]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Don't we have cap room next season? We could make a decision to extend either him or Sheldon and let the other go.

They had cap room last season too and could have easily extended him then. Or anytime since then. Could extend him now. They're choosing not to. They have stood they're ground with what they feel like player values are. Wilk obviously is not worth to them what he's been asking for years now. 

[Rangers9]

14 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Revis struggled with 2 WRs, Hopkins and Watkins (only in the 2nd matchup). To make a statment like "good young receivers like Hopkins" implies that every team has "good" WRs like this. Hopkins is GREAT. 

Revis is going to shut down 90% of the guys he lines up against. That's about as good as it gets. 

Revis is exactly the same CB he used to be, by and large. He got beat at times when he was younger too, like by Randy Moss, and during his season with the Patriots a LOT.

The league really isn't set up for "shut down corners" to even exist.

For a few years he was the best D player in the NFL. But since the injury just a very good player because of his intelligence and leadership skills. He regularly gave up too much cushion in '15 not the way he played receivers in the past. And that's why he demanded 40 guaranteed. Because he knew his skill set had diminished. 

[ylekram]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

For a few years he was the best D player in the NFL. But since the injury just a very good player because of his intelligence and leadership skills. He regularly gave up too much cushion in '15 not the way he played receivers in the past. And that's why he demanded 40 guaranteed. Because he knew his skill set had diminished. 

didnt revis have a brocken wrist last year? could explain the larger than usual cushion

[Irish Jet]

15 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

They had cap room last season too and could have easily extended him then. Or anytime since then. Could extend him now. They're choosing not to. They have stood they're ground with what they feel like player values are. Wilk obviously is not worth to them what he's been asking for years now. 

Yup. But that was before a career season where IMO he outplayed Sheldon (and played more games). Gives you another year of evaluation of performance and behaviour before deciding to invest what it will take to keep them. 

[SenorGato]

57 minutes ago, pointman said:

If it was Watt this franchise would actually want to re-sign him.

Maybe after a couple years doing some hired gun work. Think of all the cap space they could have - we're talking at least 3-4 starters, possibly several more.

[Integrity28]

17 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Interesting take from former Bears director of college scouting Greg Gabriel.

 

This.

Maybe we don't get a 2016 first, but we should at least get first round pick chart value for him. 

Anything over about 600 on here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

For a few years he was the best D player in the NFL. But since the injury just a very good player because of his intelligence and leadership skills. He regularly gave up too much cushion in '15 not the way he played receivers in the past. And that's why he demanded 40 guaranteed. Because he knew his skill set had diminished. 

So, he was the best D player in the NFL for maybe 2 years, and back then he got paid like it. Now, he's probably top 15 D player in the league, and he gets paid like it. Look at the contracts being given out to guys nowhere near as dominant as he still is. He's a fair price. Nobody loves paying any one player that much cash, but at the end of the day... he gets paid what he's worth.

[SenorGato]

22 minutes ago, AFJF said:

 

What's this guy's deal? We're not talking about JJ Watt here. Mo's great, I am obligated to mention that offhandedly, but the Jets should be comfortable with gaining cap space and hope some team will be dumb enough to be duped into giving up a 2nd or 3rd while losing the cap space. JJ Watt....now that's a JJ Watt.

[Embrace the Suck]

50 minutes ago, First_Blood said:

Yeah Sheldon, one suspension away from being booted for a year out of football. Revis did not look like a top 5 corner for us this year.

Same old Jets. Wilkerson has been nothing but class, but they will not reward him with a fair market level deal but they sign a mercenary like Revis to an albatross of a contract.

There were those of us who warned of not being able to sign a guy like Wilk prior to trading Revis, while others said sign Revis to the big market value contract he deserved. Life is not without a sense of irony. Despite trading Revis away he's back with a huge contract and we are looking to trade Wilk partly because of it. Who knows maybe we trade Wilk to Tampa and he's back in another year anyway.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

What's this guy's deal? We're not talking about JJ Watt here. Mo's great, I am obligated to mention that offhandedly, but the Jets should be comfortable with gaining cap space and hope some team will be dumb enough to be duped into giving up a 2nd or 3rd while losing the cap space. JJ Watt....now that's a JJ Watt.

You almost had a good thing going, but in typical Gato fashion.... 

[SenorGato]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

You almost had a good thing going, but in typical Gato fashion.... 

That guy kinda looks like JJ Watt, but - rest assured - that ain't no JJ Watt either.

[Sperm Edwards]

22 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Don't we have cap room next season? We could make a decision to extend either him or Sheldon and let the other go.

It isn't happening. Once one accepts reality, a rational person proceeds within the confines of said reality. 

[Raideraholic]

57 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Probably Tampa and Oakland... That's probably it too though.

The Raiders aren't trading for Muhammad Wilkerson. That is one team you can take off the list.   I can't tell you the other teams interest in him.  

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It isn't happening. Once one accepts reality, a rational person proceeds within the confines of said reality. 

True, a rational person is shaping real reality with imaginary contract demands, giving or taking away stats, and promises of many starters to come. +5 starters for this point

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

The Raiders aren't trading for Muhammad Wilkerson. That is one team you can take off the list.   I can't tell you the other teams interest in him.  

It's now safe to assume the Raiders are in the lead for Wilkerson.

[Integrity28]

11th pick = 1250 pts

20th pick = 850 pts
Lets say Wilk is something between the 20th pick and the 32nd pick, so a bottom 1/3 of the first round pick = 600-800 pts

This means Chicago would owe us between 200-400 pts in trade value IF we to get "fair" value. Chicago owns the 72nd pick (3rd) worth 230 pts. 

Effectively, we could trade Wilk + #20 for #11 and their 3rd rounder. We could do even better if Wilk gets a first round value higher than I've used for this example.

I'd sign up for this in a heartbeat.

[Rangers9]

17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

So, he was the best D player in the NFL for maybe 2 years, and back then he got paid like it. Now, he's probably top 15 D player in the league, and he gets paid like it. Look at the contracts being given out to guys nowhere near as dominant as he still is. He's a fair price. Nobody loves paying any one player that much cash, but at the end of the day... he gets paid what he's worth.

He's getting 16 mil per season which for a corner is a tremendous amount of money. The only D players getting close to that are pass rushers. Imo he was worth it then but not now. To me Revis during those glorious years was a better D player than Watt is now. 

[Raideraholic]

30 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

This is what I have been saying. 

a former bears employee is saying he worth this? Hello than why doesn't this guy still have a job.  Let's see what the Jets get for Wilkerson, and only than can we judge this guys opinion.( maybe he right, Or maybe he's Maccs friend trying to help a buddy out ). 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He's getting 16 mil per season which for a corner is a tremendous amount of money. The only D players getting close to that are pass rushers. Imo he was worth it then but not now. To me Revis during those glorious years was a better D player than Watt is now. 

Look at the average per year column: http://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

I think this means you may be wrong.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

a former bears employee is saying he worth this? Hello than why doesn't this guy still have a job.  Let's see what the Jets get for Wilkerson, and only than can we judge this guys opinion.( maybe he right, Or maybe he's Maccs friend trying to help a buddy out ). 

No, we can judge his opinion now. It is, after all, just an opinion. 

I mean, you just judged it.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

True, a rational person is shaping real reality with imaginary contract demands, giving or taking away stats, and promises of many starters to come. +5 starters for this point

Are we again going to go through the exercise of you being 100% wrong? We could have done this via PM to save you the embarrassment. 

To the extent you're capable of being embarrassed, that is.

[RutgersJetFan]

What a strange person.

[Powpow]

33 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

This.

Maybe we don't get a 2016 first, but we should at least get first round pick chart value for him. 

Anything over about 600 on here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

What's the chart value to get to #4 from 20.  Use Wilk to get to #4 and get Goff.

[Raideraholic]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

No, we can judge his opinion now. It is, after all, just an opinion. 

I mean, you just judged it.

Well I guess he can have his opinion that the Jets can get more than a number 1 for Wilkerson.    That doesn't make it any closer to reality, until some team actually does pony up those draft picks for Wilkerson.  Let's see what Wilkerson does bring back in a trade( if they can even trade him). 

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Are we again going to go through the exercise of you being 100% wrong? We could have done this via PM to save you the embarrassment. 

To the extent you're capable of being embarrassed, that is.

At best it's 10%, but feel free to yet again attempt to drop a hammer. I do have to warn you, you're starting at -100 sacks. I'll even give you this head start - Wilkerson isn't JJ Watt.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Powpow said:

What's the chart value to get to #4 from 20.  Use Wilk to get to #4 and get Goff.

for **** sake, click the link in the quote you just referenced... lol