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Carlton and Boomer: " Fitz/Jets have an agreement in place


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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Glennon and Geno are as opposite as can be.  No one who watched both would say they're similar in any way

Glennon has issues as a QB, just as Geno does. Not necessarily the same issues, but issues nonetheless. Reading comprehension - a lost art. Glennon has a completion rate of below 60%, ypc about 6.6 over 2013 / 2014. His intercepotion ratio is better than Geno, he has that going for him. At the end of the day, he is not particularly accurate, has issues reading defenses, and does not have the game awareness that Fitz has. Not to say Fitz is our savior, he's not. Glennon is just not a good QB. Again, have you actually watched him play?

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6 minutes ago, thshadow said:

You seem to be intent on minimizing Marino based on no rings, and you're digging in your heels on the "he never won a ring - that's a fact".  But it makes no sense.  No one is saying "after looking into the future, and determining that this QB won't win any rings, we should sign him."  Are you saying that if we drafted Marino instead of the Dolphins, we would have gone to the SB his first year (and lost), and never won a ring?  I guarantee you that if we could go back in time, 100 out of 100 Jet fans would have drafted Marino.

I think you're saying that most QBs are the same, because they don't win rings.  I mean, you realize that's totally asinine, right?  You can't be saying that...

Actualy, what I'm doing is having a little fun.

Nothing I've said is incorrect and I never said Fitz was in Marino's class because he isn't.  Marino had some shots to win but he choked, but is still one of the greatest ever.  I never said he wasn't.

Ive spent a good portion of this offseason trying to explain to people that many moving parts play a role in the outcome of every game, yet I keep hearing how Fitz was to blame when the Jets lost, but he was merely a spectator when they won.  It's laughable.

Back on topic....While my first choice would be a deal for Glennon, Fitz back in the fold to mentor Geno, Petty and rookie draft pick is a good thing IMO and it would seem the Jets agree.  Just cut the worst of the three when camp ends.

When was the last time this team had a promising young QB with a veteran operating an efficient offense to learn from by watching him execute at a level that results in even middle-of-the- road production?

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16 minutes ago, Stonehands said:

I am located in the Tampa area and watched a lot of Glennon's games.  He was helped a lot by Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans.  He threw a lot of balls up and let them go get it.  Those guys saved him a lot of times.  People see a decent QB rating from Glennon, but he has a lot of work to do to be even as good as Fitzpatrick at this point.

According to some posters, he'll come save our Jets and be the QB of the future for this team. Not sure how anyone is confusing this guy for a long term solution at QB. He crapped out in Tampa. McCown put Glennon on the bench and so did Winston as a rookie, but hey, The Buc's are seemingly oblivious to his greatness.

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8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

What does this even mean? 

Get a veteran Mentor like Fitz yet we're not looking to work with Geno, a guy who was mentored by Fitz? The "mentor" statement is bull. You pay a starter to start and win football games. 

 

The "mentor" statement is crap just like Fitz/Marino comparisons. Yeah, Marino never won a SB but I doubt that there was a time where Dolphins fans felt like it was Marino that was holding that team back. Marino never had a fraction of the talent Fitz had last year. 

Also, who the heck has Fitz ever "mentored"? I never seen a guy come up from behind Fitz and do great because of Fitzpatrick mentoring, and Fitz has been on what, 6 different teams? 

Fitzpatrick is a mediocre, overly glorified back up quarterback that shouldnt even be put in the unique position to EVER be compared to a guy that I hated but will always respect in Dan Marino. Marino may not have won any SB's, but he is a champion....he won an AFCCG which makes him an AFC Champion. You must first get to the playoffs in order to even achieve something like that. 

#bitteraboutglennon

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3 hours ago, TexJet said:

Clearly, very few people on this site actually watch Buc's games. If you did, you would not presume that Glennon would be more effective than Fitzpatrick running Gailey's offense. Glennon has issues as a QB, similar to our own Geno Smith. Trading for him makes no sense. Resign Fitz, draft Lynch and move on. You then have two young QB's to learn and possibly take over for Fitz in 2017. Glennon is not that guy - any more than Geno is. Amateurs!

This. ^^^

Welcome to the site. 

QB room in 2016: Fitz, Paxton, Bryce

Literally more potential and immediate impact from the QB position than we've had in a decade, and arguably much, much longer.

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Fitz was always going to be a short term solution guy I do not where the expectations of him being more than that.

Sorry Glennon has ben buried on the bench in Tampa and with little mobility in the pocket I do think he fits in todays NFL

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1 hour ago, TexJet said:

Glennon has issues as a QB, just as Geno does. Not necessarily the same issues, but issues nonetheless. Reading comprehension - a lost art. Glennon has a completion rate of below 60%, ypc about 6.6 over 2013 / 2014. His intercepotion ratio is better than Geno, he has that going for him. At the end of the day, he is not particularly accurate, has issues reading defenses, and does not have the game awareness that Fitz has. Not to say Fitz is our savior, he's not. Glennon is just not a good QB. Again, have you actually watched him play?

@Villain The Foe care to bust chops today?

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1 hour ago, TexJet said:

According to some posters, he'll come save our Jets and be the QB of the future for this team. Not sure how anyone is confusing this guy for a long term solution at QB. He crapped out in Tampa. McCown put Glennon on the bench and so did Winston as a rookie, but hey, The Buc's are seemingly oblivious to his greatness.

Never made any of the ridiculous points about Glennon, he's just a inexpensive plan B.  

But then again you are.  Are you trying to tell us that He crapped out and lost a competition to McCown?  Or did Lovie just bring his guy in from Chicago and hand him the job?  And there was a open competition between the Florida hero/savior from FSU and Glennon? Really?

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56 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

@Villain The Foe care to bust chops today?

YUP! I'll take a crack at it. 

Speaking of Fitz. Let me start with a video I just completed a couple hours ago. 

 

As for Mike Glennon, its hard to argue against what he said. Glennon has some issues, but he has raw talent with upside...something that Fitzpatrick does not have. If we're comparing the two, I would take Mike Glennon. Why? Because of what my video presents. When the opponent scores 21 or more points Fitz based on his entire career has an 85% chance of losing that game. However, if you just take Fitz stats from the past 4 years, a team that scores 21 or more points...FItz has a 92% chance of losing that game. 

And for those who need me to reverse that for them, it means that FItz gives you an 8% chance at worst, 15% chance at best to win a ball game if the opponent scores 21 or more points. Keep in mind now, this generation is a passing league, which means that teams SCORE POINTS. 

So people can say what they want about Mike Glennon, but Im not going to pay FItzpatrick 7 to 10 million dollars when I know just based on the league that we're in that the Jets defense will most likely going to have 6 or 7 games where they give up 21 points. Im basically paying that money to have him tank the season. 

I'd rather take my chance with Mike Glennon. 

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15 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

YUP! I'll take a crack at it. 

Speaking of Fitz. Let me start with a video I just completed a couple hours ago. 

 

As for Mike Glennon, its hard to argue against what he said. Glennon has some issues, but he has raw talent with upside...something that Fitzpatrick does not have. If we're comparing the two, I would take Mike Glennon. Why? Because of what my video presents. When the opponent scores 21 or more points Fitz based on his entire career has an 85% chance of losing that game. However, if you just take Fitz stats from the past 4 years, a team that scores 21 or more points...FItz has a 92% chance of losing that game. 

And for those who need me to reverse that for you, it means that FItz gives you an 8% chance at worst, 15% chance at best to win a ball game if the opponent scores 21 or more points. Keep in mind now, this generation is a passing league, which means that teams SCORE POINTS. 

So people can say what they want about Mike Glennon, but Im not going to pay FItzpatrick 7 to 10 million dollars when I know just based on the league that we're in that the Jets defense will most likely going to have 6 or 7 games where they give up 21 points. Im basically paying that money to have him tank the season. 

I'd rather take my chance with Mike Glennon. 

Nicely put. Im still on this Glennon hype train. Choo choo mother****er.

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I liked Kenny O' quite a bit.  But I was only 13 or 14 years old.  I thought having a big arm meant the world.  Then I realized I'd rather have a SB winning QB than a QB who could sling it.

Seemed like a good dude though.

I hate that people hold the Marino thing against him as if it's his fault the Jets didn't take a different QB who never won anything.

Marino did win a AFC championship in order to get to the Bowl in his 2nd year as a starter.. He had 48 tds and over 5,000 yd passing that season and his top w/r was 5'9 8th rd pick Mark Clayton.. So yes I would have loved to see what he would have done with Walker,Toon,MIckey Shuler,Freeman and the sack exchange D..

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1 minute ago, section314 said:

Just got back from a meeting. Can we please get back to the Fitz is as good as Marino debate?:P

Funny thing is, nobody said it, but it became a thing.

Perception vs. reality

:)

 

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8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

What exactly is Glennon? Well, what exactly is a rookie QB? You pay for talent, youth and upside Smashmouth. Also, a 3rd round pick isnt selling the farm...but let me get back to Fitzpatrick since his career of mediocrity and inability to step up during big moments is actually whats being debated here. 

Fitz is not young, he's was already in what is considered "his best position", so there is no more upside, he's injury prone...having 4 of his 10 seasons cut short due to injury, he's a limited passer that does not threaten with the deep pass (20% completion rate on deep throws, which about 50% of those completions were based on WR's adjusting and making awesome catches. Look at last season with Marshall, Decker or look at the year prior with DeAndre Hopkins). Any pass traveling more than 15 yards is an inaccurate football more often than we would like. We won 10 games. Yeah, we should have won 12 though. 

So let me ask you. What exactly is Fitz? Let me show you.

With Fitzpatrick as Jets QB, when opponents scored 21 or more points the Jets have a 1-6 record. 1-6! This stat right here tells me all I have to know about a Fitzpatrick led offense. And before you say that "21 or more could mean 40 points", 5 of those 7 games were no higher than 24 points, the other 2 games were 30 or more points". This right here shows that if any team scores 3 TD's, a Fitzpatrick led Jets team has an 85% chance of losing the game. Let me reiterate that.  The Jets had an 85% chance of losing the game if Fitzpatrick is quarterbacking and the opponent puts up just 21 points. 

And if you think that this is only relevant to this past season, I'll go down the list for you. 

Fitzpatrick W/L record against opponents who've score 21 or more points (Omitting the Jets Season for later comparison)

2014: 1-4 

2013: 0-6

2012: 0-8

2011: 3-10

2010: 1-7

2009: 0-2

2008: 0-5

2007: N/A

2006: 1-0

2005: 1-2

Total: 7-44 or 84.1% career losing percentage. 

Now, for the sake of not looking like a hater, I will give the "benefit of the doubt" for his first 10 seasons given that many people here have said that he didnt have great talent around him....however last year he had not just the best talent on both sides of the ball that I've seen the Jets field in my almost 25 years of following the Jets (collectively), but he also had Chan Gailey...the OC that basically made Fitzpatrick relevant to some capacity. and what was his percentage? Here you go. 

Jets Total: 1-6 or 85% losing percentage on the season. Fitzpatrick actually did worse than his career average with better talent around him on both sides of the ball. So all those people who we're yelling how Fitz won "more than 6 games" should give that credit directly to the defense, because when 7 teams this season scored 21 points, Fitz IMMEDIATELY became the fitz that was a "max 6 wins" kinda guy, and it didnt matter that he had the #1 WR duo, a 1,000 yard rusher and an offensive line that had Fitz as one of the least sacked QB's in the entire NFL. 

And in his last 4 seasons Fitz has a W/L record of 2-24! He's lost 92% of these games the past 4 seasons. In a passing league? How ridiculous is that, really? And we should pay 7-10 million for this?

I ask you this honestly, can Mike Glennon or Geno Smith for that matter do worst that that? Why pay a man 7-10 million when the Jets defense will have atleast 6-7 teams score more than 21 points? You're literally throwing away your season and the stats, not Villain, but the stats prove that you'll be throwing away your season....AND paying 7 to 10 million to do it.

The signing, if true is stupid. 

 

So, do you blame me for looking at different options? 


So yea, I like Mike Glennon. I like his game and I believe that he has potential which really has no value because it isnt some tangible stat. I understand that potential is only relevant when someone likes your game. HOWEVER, Fitz has very tangible stats given the amount of years/games played and the dude is a mediocre QB and when facing an offense that can score points the Jets have an 85% chance of losing the game. And trust me, Fitz 85% is a reflection of QB in relation of talent on both sides of the ball. People can talk all day about Mike Glennon and his 5 wins in his career, but outside of Vincent Jackson, 4 games with Mike Evans, Gerald McCoy and Lavonte David that Bucs team was absolute garbage. 

 

So to conclude, when you can only win 15% of your games with that amount of talent around you, against that poor of a schedule, in a league that is now a "passing league" which is designed to score points...then I feel like my position is quite valid. 

So please, let me know if losing 85% of those games in this type of league with the amount of talent around him is okay for you, and people like me should be ashamed for looking for potentially better options. 

Villian I don't blame you for looking at Different Options but Fitz never played on a good football team his entire career and he's being blamed for that over and over and its simply not fair to the guy to continue looking for holes in a player who had the best year by a Jet QB in the History of the franchise. If we had the 09 Defense and Special teams unit we probably contend for a SB last year. When was the last time you saw a Jets offense move the ball like that ? 98 ? 02 ?

Fitz is a much better QB than you think and his pre snap reads are as fast as I have ever seen here. His fearlessness in the pocket is also the best I have seen here. Yet Jets fans find room to bitch because he's not the guy they wanted . Moving forward give me a call the next time we get 33 TD's out of a QB with minimal Fumbles and Ints.

Once again TEAMS win Games not QB's. And when QB's do it all with Inferior teams like Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning for 90 % of his career they ALWAYS get exposed in the playoffs. The Jets got Exposed 4 times last year as having Horrid Special Teams and a Defense that could not get off the field on third down allowing teams to extend drives and that's what we should be talking about not Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If Mike Glennon was all that Buc's would not have wasted a 1st round pick on Jamius Winston they could have traded out for Multiple picks and re built a team that needs to be rebuilt but they chose to go the one player rout and there were plenty of Question Marks about him.

QB's are only as good as their supporting cast and that fact has been proven over and over and over

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11 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Villian I don't blame you for looking at Different Options but Fitz never played on a good football team his entire career and he's being blamed for that over and over and its simply not fair to the guy to continue looking for holes in a player who had the best year by a Jet QB in the History of the franchise. If we had the 09 Defense and Special teams unit we probably contend for a SB last year. When was the last time you saw a Jets offense move the ball like that ? 98 ? 02 ?

Fitz is a much better QB than you think and his pre snap reads are as fast as I have ever seen here. His fearlessness in the pocket is also the best I have seen here. Yet Jets fans find room to bitch because he's not the guy they wanted . Moving forward give me a call the next time we get 33 TD's out of a QB with minimal Fumbles and Ints.

Once again TEAMS win Games not QB's. And when QB's do it all with Inferior teams like Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning for 90 % of his career they ALWAYS get exposed in the playoffs. The Jets got Exposed 4 times last year as having Horrid Special Teams and a Defense that could not get off the field on third down allowing teams to extend drives and that's what we should be talking about not Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If Mike Glennon was all that Buc's would not have wasted a 1st round pick on Jamius Winston they could have traded out for Multiple picks and re built a team that needs to be rebuilt but they chose to go the one player rout and there were plenty of Question Marks about him.

QB's are only as good as their supporting cast and that fact has been proven over and over and over

This is why I even said that I'll give FItzpatrick the benfit of the doubt for his first 10 seasons. He played on bad teams...some not as bad as others. (Two of those Bills teams were pretty decent, lets be real now). But for the sake of conversation I'll agree with  you because generally you are correct. 

 

My problem is when he got here. Yes, he won 10 games, but Fitz was still Fitz. FItz lost 84% of his games when the opponent scored 21 or more points prior to coming to the Jets. We would have thought that this would have changed with the talent on both sides of the ball correct? That didnt happen. He lost 85% of those same games in a Jets uniform. 

 

Thats where I simply have to draw the line. I talk about Glennon being on a bad team, having multiple OC's and coaches who flat out didnt want to play him. I watched his game and I think he's pretty good, but my feeling is based on potential along with putting him around talent. Now if Glennon came in and basically showed that the Bucs werent the problem but "he" was the problem then I have to call a spade a spade. I cant not do that because I like him. Right now I think that people have to call a spade a spade when it comes to Fitz. 
 

He won the most games because he had the best team he ever had, but when it came down to competing against teams that score points the guy cannot hang Smash. He simply cant. The truth is right there brother. I cant cover for him on that one. 

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21 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Villian I don't blame you for looking at Different Options but Fitz never played on a good football team his entire career and he's being blamed for that over and over and its simply not fair to the guy to continue looking for holes in a player who had the best year by a Jet QB in the History of the franchise. If we had the 09 Defense and Special teams unit we probably contend for a SB last year. When was the last time you saw a Jets offense move the ball like that ? 98 ? 02 ?

Fitz is a much better QB than you think and his pre snap reads are as fast as I have ever seen here. His fearlessness in the pocket is also the best I have seen here. Yet Jets fans find room to bitch because he's not the guy they wanted . Moving forward give me a call the next time we get 33 TD's out of a QB with minimal Fumbles and Ints.

Once again TEAMS win Games not QB's. And when QB's do it all with Inferior teams like Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning for 90 % of his career they ALWAYS get exposed in the playoffs. The Jets got Exposed 4 times last year as having Horrid Special Teams and a Defense that could not get off the field on third down allowing teams to extend drives and that's what we should be talking about not Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If Mike Glennon was all that Buc's would not have wasted a 1st round pick on Jamius Winston they could have traded out for Multiple picks and re built a team that needs to be rebuilt but they chose to go the one player rout and there were plenty of Question Marks about him.

QB's are only as good as their supporting cast and that fact has been proven over and over and over

That was really true in this past Bowl game the D won that game without a doubt..:)

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Villian I don't blame you for looking at Different Options but Fitz never played on a good football team his entire career and he's being blamed for that over and over and its simply not fair to the guy to continue looking for holes in a player who had the best year by a Jet QB in the History of the franchise. If we had the 09 Defense and Special teams unit we probably contend for a SB last year. When was the last time you saw a Jets offense move the ball like that ? 98 ? 02 ?

Fitz is a much better QB than you think and his pre snap reads are as fast as I have ever seen here. His fearlessness in the pocket is also the best I have seen here. Yet Jets fans find room to bitch because he's not the guy they wanted . Moving forward give me a call the next time we get 33 TD's out of a QB with minimal Fumbles and Ints.

Once again TEAMS win Games not QB's. And when QB's do it all with Inferior teams like Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning for 90 % of his career they ALWAYS get exposed in the playoffs. The Jets got Exposed 4 times last year as having Horrid Special Teams and a Defense that could not get off the field on third down allowing teams to extend drives and that's what we should be talking about not Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If Mike Glennon was all that Buc's would not have wasted a 1st round pick on Jamius Winston they could have traded out for Multiple picks and re built a team that needs to be rebuilt but they chose to go the one player rout and there were plenty of Question Marks about him.

QB's are only as good as their supporting cast and that fact has been proven over and over and over

Easy and convenient to unjustly credit wins and good performance to a player who wasn't in the game. For all you know he would have thrown 2-3 INTs in any/every playoff game (if he could manage to get his team there). He plays like sh*t against top pass defenses, and loses 5/6 of the time if the offense has to overcome even a 3-TD opponent.

Truly good (and especially great) QBs are NOT only as good as their supporting cast, and THAT is what has been proven over and over and over. What a load of nonsense. With regards to QBs who aren't good, what's been proven is that some teams and situations are good enough to carry bad QBs or make them look better than they are. 

With this rationale, teams are unbelievably stupid to pay top dollar for a good QB, because there are no good QBs; there are only QBs with good supporting casts or bad supporting casts. You can't possibly believe this.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Easy and convenient to unjustly grant wins and good performance to a player who wasn't in the game. For all you know he would have thrown 2-3 INTs in any/every playoff game (if he could manage to get his team there). He plays like sh*t against top pass defenses, and loses 5/6 of the time if the offense has to overcome even a 3-TD opponent.

Truly good (and especially great) QBs are NOT only as good as their supporting cast, and THAT is what has been proven over and over and over. What a load of nonsense. With regards to QBs who aren't good, what's been proven is that some teams and situations are good enough to carry bad QBs or make them look better than they are. 

With this rationale, teams are unbelievably stupid to pay top dollar for a good QB, because there are no good QBs; there are only QBs with good supporting casts. You can't possibly believe this.

This needs to be in the format of a YouTube monologue.

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13 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This needs to be in the format of a YouTube monologue.

But then you would be denied the pleasure of reading it.

It's ridiculous. Say Sanchez or Geno was the QB who blew that Buffalo game if it happened the same way the prior season. What I'm reading is the equivalent of a post claiming, "Well if Fitzpatrick was in there instead we definitely would have beaten the Bills in week 17."

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Ahhhh so the foe is a black dude. What up my brutha

seriously though....i wonder what the winning percentage is for the average qb when the other team scores 21 points. I mean 21 points is a decent showing. Lots of games are won with 21 points!

 

im with ya though....id trade wilk for glennon as long as he agrees to a 3 or 4 year contract. Why trade for a draft pick to take a rookie qb that can bust. Glennon. Can be a solid producer

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8 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Ahhhh so the foe is a black dude. What up my brutha

seriously though....i wonder what the winning percentage is for the average qb when the other team scores 21 points. I mean 21 points is a decent showing. Lots of games are won with 21 points!

 

im with ya though....id trade wilk for glennon as long as he agrees to a 3 or 4 year contract. Why trade for a draft pick to take a rookie qb that can bust. Glennon. Can be a solid producer

Im not sure what the general QB average is, but I can say this...

 

We heard numerous times from people saying that Fitz wasnt successful because he was on bad teams. Yet, when it came to this particular stat (since like you said, 21 points is a decent showing), Fitzpatrick didnt change a bit. Not with a better defense and a supporting cast at the skillsets. 

If a guy is bad because he's with a bad team then I can understand that, however the reason why I disagreed last year and still do is because it wasnt like Fitz was playing great on bad teams. Alot of the times he looked like he was just as much the problem. 

With Glennon there were times where I literally said out loud to myself "this dude is playing on a BAD team", because I felt like the guy just couldnt overcome the stupidity of his own team. 

Fitz got away from those old teams yet when it came to "stats that matter" that guys game didnt change one bit....but it was disguised by the 10 wins, which based on what I presented in the video should be considered courtesy of the defense. 

I dont know what the average is, but I highly doubt that the average over the past 4 seasons looks anything like Fitzpatricks 2-24 record/92% failure rate. And even if that was the average....even more reason why we should be aiming higher. 

 

Oh, and im chillin bruh! lol. 

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Just now, Colgateman said:

The same people who say Fitz played on bad teams his first 10 years are the same ones who call Geno a bust and dismiss that he played on bad teams, lmao the hypocrisy

Neither is good. But I agree one gets far more excuses  of "team loss" rationalizations for things which the other would get ire and blame.

I'd like to move on from both.

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yes but the 30-minute loop of Ryan Gosling movie tunes in the background would make up for that.

Definitely would have to keep it on a loop.

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The other stat that cant be overlooked is his 30 tds to 7 ints or whatever it is. Its impressive. He had a great year.

if you were guaranteed the same exact performance for the next 3 years, would you pay him and do it? Id have to say yes. Id take my chances with 2016 fitz for the next 3 years

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3 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

The other stat that cant be overlooked is his 30 tds to 7 ints or whatever it is. Its impressive. He had a great year.

if you were guaranteed the same exact performance for the next 3 years, would you pay him and do it? Id have to say yes. Id take my chances with 2016 fitz for the next 3 years

Chances of Fitzpatrick throwing 30 TDs to 7 INTs in 2016 = 0%

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