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D'Brickahaw Ferguson Retired (merged)

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39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First off, if you can't make your point without personal attacks then leave. You have been warned more times than you have earned. The next time buys you a vacation.

Next, it would have been easy. You sign a less expensive left tackle, then you cut the more expensive left tackle. What is at all hard to understand about that? It couldn't possibly be any simpler.

Logic, lol. 

With what money? They have 500k. Where have they wasted money this offseason?

Edited by UnitedWhofans

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Well this is a surprise.   

I think we'll be used to more and more people retiring while still good enough to play because they've made enough money and want to make sure they aren't drooling over themselves in 7 years.  

As for the Jets, this certainly changes their path in the draft and free agency.  Ryan Clady could be an option I guess at this point.  

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I don't want to be redundant as the majority of posts in this thread reflect my feelings on Brick, but I will say that you couldn't of asked for more when we drafted him 4th overall.

Good luck Brick, I appreciate everything you've done for this organization.

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

With what money? You are naive and dumb. Logic shows differently

You know, you're like a child with this constant use of "Your naive and Dumb"

Can't you have a discussion without resorting to childish name calling?

If people don't agree with you, or more to the point, you can't understand reason, you throw out the name calling card.

Please don't reply to my posts and I won't replt to yours. 

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.  

As for the Jets, this certainly changes their path in the draft .  

Changes nothing. Maybe it tips the scales on a couple late round guys.

This situation won't be fixed in the draft.

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15 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Salary cap Q: is there still dead money because he resigned? Or is it all off the books? Is it $9 or $14 mill savings?

D’Brickashaw Ferguson Retires After Jets Ask For Pay Cut

The Jets always knew that something had to be done with D’Brickashaw Ferguson and his $14 million cap charge this year. They had a few options as to how to approach the contract. They decided to choose a risky one which was to wait out free agency likely in hopes of backing Ferguson into a corner to get a better deal for the next two seasons while also wrapping it up as a story of him doing a solid for a team that needs cap space for a quarterback. The tricky part with that approach is that a player drafted so highly as Ferguson that has had such a long career as a starter can always fall back on retirement when asked to take a steep pay cut. Ferguson did just that leaving the Jets with no left tackle in 2016, but will create $9.093 million in cap space.

Every team is faced with situations like this one. It was clear two years ago that Ferguson was beginning to trend down from his status as an above average left tackle to average territory. For such an important position this is when many teams will take the approach to draft a left tackle of the future and play him at right tackle for a season. If the veteran turns it around you hopefully now have two solid bookends and a future plan for succession. If the veteran doesn’t at least you have a name you hope can develop right away. The Jets instead ignored it and watched as last year he dropped from average to below average with nobody on the roster to replace him.

 

I don’t blame Jets for asking for a pay cut, it’s the timing that I think was a mistake. Going into the free agent period I always thought the Jets would ask him in February about redoing his deal, one that would guarantee two years of vastly reduced salary. This would allow the Jets to hopefully have a competent tackle on the blindside and develop another that was drafted. If he refused you had to cut him and call his bluff on the retirement threat. At least if you did that you had options in free agency to replace him.

I have to believe seeing the way the Jets slow played this that there was a strong internal belief that Ferguson would accept the pay cut which is surprising to me. In my mind the retirement was 50/50 from day 1 and the Jets left themselves no protection if he did retire. The Jets don’t pick high enough in the draft to just say “well there is someone we like at left tackle” to absolutely bank on the draft. They needed free agency as an option and they let that get away.

Seeing how free agency broke down it was clear that Ferguson’s value was going to be around $5 million a season, if not less. Maybe that was part of the waiting  game on the Jets end thinking that as the market priced itself the Jets would have a stronger hand to play when negotiating his salary downward. Id say if Ferguson was 29 playing on a $7 million a year contract that would have worked, but not after essentially 10 years on two high priced deals. The Broncos, who are in the identical cap situation as the Jets, took a much more realistic view of the landscape. They went out and signed Russell Okung to a $5 million contract with an option for future years rather than banking on Ryan Clady being willing to do the contract dance with them.

  That’s why I hHow the Jets were not players for Okung and Kelvin Beachum or even a Donald Penn type is beyond me.ave to believe they were caught off guard by this. Now their options in free agency are names like Will Beatty and Jake Long. Clady will likely come up as a trade possibility.  Some may say Joe Thomas but the Browns will ask a lot for him so I don’t see that especially if the Jets are looking for long term cap flexibility.

The Jets had apparently tried to spin the paycut request into a “money needed for Fitzpatrick” story but that was just trying to come out not looking like the bad guy when asking the veteran for a paycut. The main driver in the timing of this is the fact that offseason workouts start shortly and Ferguson can earn $750,000 by attending workouts. The Jets had to do something before that. Maybe a Fitzpatrick signing is imminent but I would not buy for a second that this was the driver for any action, plus the Jets have plenty of ways to make cap room.

 

While Ferguson had leverage of retirement in this situation, most players do not. This is one of those situations that drives an agent crazy.  The Jets had known for months that this was where this was headed but waiting to address it until all options were also wiped out for the player since most other teams have all addressed their needs at left tackle. Generally guards are the positions teams are slotting in faces on over the summer much more so than left tackles.

The situation also illustrates why, from a team perspective,  you should always be proactive at addressing cornerstone positions before players begin their declines. Not only does it give you some leverage in a negotiation but it also has a successor in place. You never want to wait for the car to break down before you fix it, but that is the Jets plan with their line.

 

The Jets have essentially ignored the offensive line since 2010, when they spent a 2nd round pick on Vlad Ducasse. They have virtually no youth on the line and will likely begin a period now of constant flux as they rebuild it. Nick Mangold, who was drafted alongside Ferguson in the 2006 draft, will be next. It would be surprising if the Jets did not try and address that this season and playing that player at guard for the time being.

As a fan its completely baffling that the Jets would spend pick after pick after pick along the defensive line and do nothing on the offensive side. For 2008 and 2009 it was understandable as they had the two high draft picks on the team plus veterans Alan Faneca, Brandon Moore, and Damien Woody. Once Woody retired in 2011 the Jets had to begin to rebuild but never have.

Since 2006, when the team drafted Ferguson and Mangold in the first round, the Jets have drafted two linemen in the top 3 rounds of the draft- Ducasse and Brian Winters. That’s it. Out of 22 picks just two on an offensive line that was getting older and struggling to find talent. Over that same period they had drafted 6 defensive linemen, 3 cornerbacks, 3 linebackers, 2 receivers, 2 tight ends, 2 quarterbacks, a safety and a running back in those first three rounds. If we go back to 2011 when the Jets should have started on the offensive line we have 10 defensive players selected, essentially a full unit. On offense they addressed QB, WR, and TE but only have Winters as the guy to offer protection. Its not really a strategy for long term success, in my opinion.

Where will the Jets turn from here?  Who knows but I really think they gambled here and lost. Even if they do make a trade for Clady and keep their fingers crossed that he can avoid IR they have to start focusing on the line in the draft and having that as a solid backbone of the team. For Mike Maccagnan I think this is his first major misstep as GM in formulating a strategy. He has another big test with Muhammad Wilkerson looming and Mangold next year. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned that helps him and the Jets front office improve for the future.

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4 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Played for 10 years and 67 million dollars however being a Vet I'll just thank Vets for their service..;)

I'd like to thank the lady with the champagne glass for her service.  All these years, and she's still holding that glass. B)

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First off, if you can't make your point without personal attacks then leave. You have been warned more times than you have earned. The next time buys you a vacation.

Next, it would have been easy. You sign a less expensive left tackle, then you cut the more expensive left tackle. What is at all hard to understand about that? It couldn't possibly be any simpler.

Logic, lol. 

Yeah  cut the expensive left tackle and sign the unicorn because cheap LT who can block a paper bag and never get hurt and falling off trees.  It's very easy to understand a persons point when it it based on fantasy land.  Look at the teams histories of getting LT's and see how many  easily cut their expensive 10 year guy that never got hurt and didn't pay the price with 7 or 8 years of searching for a new guy,  The cheap guys stink and even the expensive guys get hurt, 

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24 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Salary cap Q: is there still dead money because he resigned? Or is it all off the books? Is it $9 or $14 mill savings?

$9 million. The remaining amortized portion of Brick's signing bonus accelerates to this year, unless the Jets make a case for a partial refund of that bonus due to his retirement, something, of course they certainly won't do to Brick.  So long as the money was paid, it has to hit the cap sometime.  

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

First off, if you can't make your point without personal attacks then leave. You have been warned more times than you have earned. The next time buys you a vacation.

Next, it would have been easy. You sign a less expensive left tackle, then you cut the more expensive left tackle. What is at all hard to understand about that? It couldn't possibly be any simpler.

Logic, lol. 

Thank you for this. Being called "naive and dumb" twice in 3 posts was very annoying and childish.

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2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

With what money? They have 500k. Where have they wasted money this offseason?

Are you joking or being purposely ridiculous?

Whatever. He would have signed a LT with the $ cleared up by cutting Ferguson right after that new signing.

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah  cut the expensive left tackle and sign the unicorn because cheap LT who can block a paper bag and never get hurt and falling off trees.  It's very easy to understand a persons point when it it based on fantasy land.  Look at the teams histories of getting LT's and see how many  easily cut their expensive 10 year guy that never got hurt and didn't pay the price with 7 or 8 years of searching for a new guy,  The cheap guys stink and even the expensive guys get hurt, 

lol okay. Teams don't just throw in the towel, and they often get better play than Ferguson's 2015 performance, with backup LTs. 

You're overestimating his play over recent years, as well as his importance, while ignoring how it handicapped the team's play calling (particularly in the ground game). Everyone who isn't expensive does not stink. Not even close. Teams still go to, and win, SBs with backup left tackles.

Look, the guy was a great player once, and now that he's retired I'd rather remember him from when he was at his best. But he hadn't been close to that level in years. 

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I know some of you are trying to parlay your butthurt about Brick retiring into further testimony of the Jets incompetence... but, this is the reality.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lol okay. Teams don't throw in the towel, and often get better play, with backup LTs. 

You're overestimating his play over recent years, as well as his importance, while ignoring how it handicapped the team's play calling (particularly in the ground game). Everyone who isn't expensive does not stink. Not even close. Teams still go to, and win, SBs with backup left tackles.

Look, the guy was a great player once, and now that he's retired I'd rather remember him from when he was at his best. But he hadn't been close to that level in years. 

No, he hadn't.

It is far better to move on, re-allocate that salary to other positions, than it is to continue to pay him like a top LT - and have him perform like the opposite.

Players move on. Some fans just can't cope with it... it reminds me of the whole "Jets suck! They need to DO SOMETHING to get better!!! Oh my God, the Jets got rid of of this scrub and that scrub???? What are they doing??? NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

 

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22 minutes ago, Dcat said:

$9 million. The remaining amortized portion of Brick's signing bonus accelerates to this year, unless the Jets make a case for a partial refund of that bonus due to his retirement, something, of course they certainly won't do to Brick.  So long as the money was paid, it has to hit the cap sometime.  

Yeah this is correct. If they'd cut him instead of him retiring, they could have cleared another million-plus this year and shifted it to 2017 (clearing $10.4M instead of only $9.1M). Now I don't think they have that option & it all accelerates to 2016.

Doesnt really matter, in a sense. If they decide they really needed at extra $1.3M they can still restructure another player (e.g. Decker) by that amount, and the net result would be the same as if they'd pushed that much of Brick's dead cap space to next season instead. 

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6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

No, he hadn't.

It is far better to move on, re-allocate that salary to other positions, than it is to continue to pay him like a top LT - and have him perform like the opposite.

Players move on. Some fans just can't cope with it... it reminds me of the whole "Jets suck! They need to DO SOMETHING to get better!!! Oh my God, the Jets got rid of of this scrub and that scrub???? What are they doing??? NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

 

+1

I used to call it "Fear of Worse Syndrome" years ago, and it was a serious affliction for some here, way back when. 

A team never gets better by sticking with players whose play it needs to improve upon. Sure there's some risk of getting even worse play in the short term, but so be it. 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah this is correct. If they'd cut him instead of him retiring, they could have cleared another million-plus this year and shifted it to 2017 (clearing $10.4M instead of only $9.1M). Now I don't think they have that option & it all accelerates to 2016.

Doesnt really matter, in a sense. If they decide they really needed at extra $1.3M they can still restructure another player (e.g. Decker) by that amount, and the net result would be the same as if they'd pushed that much of Brick's dead cap space to next season instead. 

no "June 1" option for a retirement.  But the work around is easy.  And they really have to stop calling it a "June 1" option since teams can declare it at any time.  They should just rewrite the rule so that a team has the option to spread the accelerated bonus into the current year or split it between this year and next year. 

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1 hour ago, Dcat said:

no "June 1" option for a retirement.  But the work around is easy.  And they really have to stop calling it a "June 1" option since teams can declare it at any time.  They should just rewrite the rule so that a team has the option to spread the accelerated bonus into the current year or split it between this year and next year. 

They call it that for a good reason, though. There really is a hard date of June 1. Teams can select 1 player per year to cut as though it was post-June1, but for everyone else that date is still the cutoff. 

They made the exception to help March FAs get more competition for signing them, and so the June cut players (typically high priced ones) wouldn't be looking for a job when so many teams' cap space is blown (or when the position was addressed in the draft). Also helps teams, since some may not be able to afford the full accelerated cap in the current season, but the to-be-cut player is due new bonuses before June 1. 

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59 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They call it that for a good reason, though. There really is a hard date of June 1. Teams can select 1 player per year to cut as though it was post-June1, but for everyone else that date is still the cutoff. 

They made the exception to help March FAs get more competition for signing them, and so the June cut players (typically high priced ones) wouldn't be looking for a job when so many teams' cap space is blown (or when the position was addressed in the draft). Also helps teams, since some may not be able to afford the full accelerated cap in the current season, but the to-be-cut player is due new bonuses before June 1. 

Wasn't aware of the one-time restriction (per year).  They should give teams the option anyway and not limit it to one player. It would be much better.

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36 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1

I used to call it "Fear of Worse Syndrome" years ago, and it was a serious affliction for some here, way back when. 

A team never gets better by sticking with players whose play it needs to improve upon. Sure there's some risk of getting even worse play in the short term, but so be it. 

The Bitonti Delusion

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49 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Wasn't aware of the one-time restriction (per year).  They should give teams the option anyway and not limit it to one player. It would be much better.

Well, that's the way they do it (or I think I'm right, anyway). The idea is that if a player (a veteran player who'd previously been paid significant amount of bonus money) is still on the team more than a month after the draft, he's likely to be on the team when the season starts. If he's still on the team after June 1, then only the amortized portion of the cap hits in the current season. If he's cut before then, it all accelerates. 

Hey, at least they created this much of an exception. 

Truth is there was almost always a way around it. Like all those restructures teams used to do, they just wouldn't be as necessary now. But the end result isn't any different. It only seemed worse to mortgage the future to help today. But if you, the GM, cut someone in March or April, and designate him a post-June1 cut, there's really no difference. You are in effect restructuring a contract; you're just restructuring the contract of the player you're cutting so it seems like you didn't.

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Some of you guys are going to be in for a real surprise if the jets fail to address LT and you get to see what actual bad LT play looks like.  Remember Wayne hunter bad?  Put that at LT instead of RT.  No question DBrick simply made too much, no question that his play had fallen off somewhat, just wait and see what happens when we try and cheap it out like other teams have done over the years. 

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3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1

I used to call it "Fear of Worse Syndrome" years ago, and it was a serious affliction for some here, way back when. 

A team never gets better by sticking with players whose play it needs to improve upon. Sure there's some risk of getting even worse play in the short term, but so be it. 

LT is not like a position like LB or WR or RB or TE or even CB where if things go poorly you plug in the backup and lick your wounds for the points it costs you.  For LT you are scrapping your QB off the pavement.  Now most would say fitz, geno who cares?  But if this team finally gets that illusive long term looking QB you better have a quality LT.

 

Some teams take years and years to find one and use up an unreal amount of resources.  There is a reason why LT's get drafted high most years, teams watch as their qb's get the sh*t kicked out of them.  Having a guy like Dbrick leave now?  Fine he costs too much and is on the down side, thinking LT is an easy fix, as easy as other positions?  Do so at your own risk.

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18 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

LT is not like a position like LB or WR or RB or TE or even CB where if things go poorly you plug in the backup and lick your wounds for the points it costs you.  For LT you are scrapping your QB off the pavement.  Now most would say fitz, geno who cares?  But if this team finally gets that illusive long term looking QB you better have a quality LT.

 

Some teams take years and years to find one and use up an unreal amount of resources.  There is a reason why LT's get drafted high most years, teams watch as their qb's get the sh*t kicked out of them.  Having a guy like Dbrick leave now?  Fine he costs too much and is on the down side, thinking LT is an easy fix, as easy as other positions?  Do so at your own risk.

We will have to see how it plays out when we got rid of Mawae we got Mangold a center isn't LT but he was a nice replacement.. Brick replaced Fabini at LT and he was a better upgrade for sure..

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

LT is not like a position like LB or WR or RB or TE or even CB where if things go poorly you plug in the backup and lick your wounds for the points it costs you.  For LT you are scrapping your QB off the pavement.  Now most would say fitz, geno who cares?  But if this team finally gets that illusive long term looking QB you better have a quality LT.

 

Some teams take years and years to find one and use up an unreal amount of resources.  There is a reason why LT's get drafted high most years, teams watch as their qb's get the sh*t kicked out of them.  Having a guy like Dbrick leave now?  Fine he costs too much and is on the down side, thinking LT is an easy fix, as easy as other positions?  Do so at your own risk.

No, that is simply not true for the Jets. You are speaking generically about left tackles, not specifically about Ferguson and the Jets, which is all that matters here.

We don't have a 7-step dropback QB who just stands there in the pocket for 4 seconds like an imbecile, or scrambles around behind the LOS with his eyes downfield for even longer. That isn't the Jets QB (Fitz, if he's brought back) and that isn't the gameplan by the coordinator. So a monster of a pass-blocking LT just isn't as imperative compared to other teams or other years (not that Ferguson at all resembles an impenetrable wall anyway).

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@Beerfish

Also, if Fitz was a Wilson/Rodgers type QB who scrambles around behind the LOS instead of 3/5 step dropping and chucking it fast, and like those 2 and others was buying time with his eyes downfield, Brick would have had them - to use your words - "on the pavement" or having "the sh*t kicked out of them" as well. You wouldn't know it because, despite the 59 (59!!!) pressures he surrendered this season, Fitz still got the ball out comparatively fast. 59 pressures is about 4 pressures surrendered per game, just from Ferguson. It means on 1/10 of Fitz's dropbacks, Brick - specifically Brick - surrendered pressure to the QB. Those average in those quick timing plays where the ball is out in less than a second so you wouldn't have surrendered pressure on Fitz. That rate is unacceptable from anyone on the line, let alone someone who is a one-dimensional pass blocker.

Brick was "on the downside" (as you put it) three seasons ago. He was below average 2 seasons ago. He was terrible last season. The ball getting out of our QB's hands so quickly hid just how badly he'd slipped, as did having Breno on the opposite side. Against the number of better pass rushers we'll face this year it would have been even uglier still, since he has been progressively been getting worse every season for 5 years running.

And all of this is just about his pass blocking, but what about the other 40-45% of the offensive snaps (including crucial short yardage)? Ferguson hasn't been even an acceptable run blocker in 4-5 years. I can appreciate you liking him, but in 2016 he just isn't the loss you think he is. If this was following the 2010 season, then I'd agree it would be a tremendous loss because he was really a great player back then and our QB held the ball so damn long. But that peak of his career was 6 long seasons ago. I wish him well.

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, that is simply not true for the Jets. You are speaking generically about left tackles, not specifically about Ferguson and the Jets, which is all that matters here.

We don't have a 7-step dropback QB who just stands there in the pocket for 4 seconds like an imbecile, or scrambles around behind the LOS with his eyes downfield for even longer. That isn't the Jets QB (Fitz, if he's brought back) and that isn't the gameplan by the coordinator. So a monster of a pass-blocking LT just isn't as imperative compared to other teams or other years (not that Ferguson at all resembles an impenetrable wall anyway).

Your right, I'm not sure on the exact times, but Fitz got the ball out fast, he was top 3 last year. I'm sure people still think Brick is the old 2010 Brick.

He's regressed so fast, you don't need a a franchise Tackle to replace him, not in Chan 's system. Don't get me wrong Bricks been great for us, for a decade. Good luck I say, he's a really nice guy and bright, he will do well.

 

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Just now, BurnleyJet said:

Your right, I'm not sure on the exact times, but Fitz got the ball out fast, he was top 3 last year. I'm sure people still think Brick is the old 2010 Brick.

He's regressed so fast, you don't need a a franchise Tackle to replace him, not in Chan 's system. Don't get me wrong Bricks been great for us, for a decade. Good luck I say, he's a really nice guy and bright, he will do well.

 

Exactly how I feel. I think that because - by all accounts except once by that blob of an asshat Cannizaro - he's such a great person, that when combined with what we know he once was, that people just take personal offense to anything unflattering said about him. I wouldn't say I'm unsympathetic to that, even while I still disagree with regards to his value. And like I said above, I really do wish him well. Particularly since I don't have to root against him on another team, that should be easy.

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19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Interesting.

maybe now we can find a LT that wont give up Double digit sacks every year and be bad in the run game.

The fact the guy never missed time made him reliable not great.

Brick had about 2 very  good seasons and the rest were meh for a top 5 pick at the LT position.

Hilarious how the NFLK network are calling Brick our Best OLman and the Anchor of the OL LOfuclikingL. When we had Moore Mangold and Woody all played better than Brick by a wide margin. If Bricks claim to fame is his ability to stay on the field good for him, it does not make him the player they are pushing in the media not by a longshot.

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3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Some of you guys are going to be in for a real surprise if the jets fail to address LT and you get to see what actual bad LT play looks like.  Remember Wayne hunter bad?  Put that at LT instead of RT.  No question DBrick simply made too much, no question that his play had fallen off somewhat, just wait and see what happens when we try and cheap it out like other teams have done over the years. 

He allowed the 2nd most pressures in the NFL last season...how far down does the barrel go?

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