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was John Idzik really that bad of a GM for the jets ? ? ?


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22 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

8-8 record, $50M in your pocket and 12 draft picks - doesn't equal let's all just tank the season and then next year we'll go for it.   I put together a long list of WR's he passed on in another thread for you and you had no answer then and you don't have one now for how he missed on ALL of them.

Stop making Enunwa out to be a Pro Bowler.  He has some intriguing physical traits but has shown that he struggles big time in the most important trait for a WR - catching the ball! - he even dropped a shovel pass that could have put us in the playoffs.

He had 2 top 15 picks the year before - one has been a major bust so far and the other can play but is a total moron and could be on his way to a year long suspension if he doesn't straighten himself out.

You have a pretty negative outlook on Idzik and don't give him any credit for creating that cap space. And wanted him to spend much of it in 2014. Whicn I think he planned as a rebuilding year. He did sign Harvin when he was available (in a cap friendly deal where they were able to cut him if it didn't work out) and tried to get a good cover corner. But not every elite player is going to choose the Jets. I don't think signing Patterson was all that dumb. You see a lot of teams opting in free agency for players who have been decent on the field and are experienced but with recent injuries. What they are doing is trying to get a year out of a guy on the cheap. There have been many many signings like this in the NFL. It just didn't work out with Patterson mostly because he is an a-hole. As for Quincy, I never said he was great or going to be great just that he is a good prospect and draft choice and someone the Jets felt high enough on to start in most of their games last year. He could end up being one of the better receivers in that draft. And swinging and missing on a few is no big deal. All teams do it. And just look at that 2014 draft. We took Calvin Pryor in the 1st round and Phila took Marcus Smith. I think you'd take Pryor over Smith. And in the 2nd round they took Jordan Matthews (one of those receivers we passed on) and we took Jace Amaro. I'd take Matthews over Amaro. But I'd take Pryor and Amaro over over Smith and Matthews. And as for all those picks we had a lot of them were comp picks and you can't trade comp pics.  So to me the bottom line is: Idzik does not get an F- like many of you say he should get. I'd give him a C for only two seasons. But to give him a real grade he should have had 3 seasons. 

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13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You have a pretty negative outlook on Idzik and don't give him any credit for creating that cap space. And wanted him to spend much of it in 2014. Whicn I think he planned as a rebuilding year. He did sign Harvin when he was available (in a cap friendly deal where they were able to cut him if it didn't work out) and tried to get a good cover corner. But not every elite player is going to choose the Jets. I don't think signing Patterson was all that dumb. You see a lot of teams opting in free agency for players who have been decent on the field and are experienced but with recent injuries. What they are doing is trying to get a year out of a guy on the cheap. There have been many many signings like this in the NFL. It just didn't work out with Patterson mostly because he is an a-hole. As for Quincy, I never said he was great or going to be great just that he is a good prospect and draft choice and someone the Jets felt high enough on to start in most of their games last year. He could end up being one of the better receivers in that draft. And swinging and missing on a few is no big deal. All teams do it. And just look at that 2014 draft. We took Calvin Pryor in the 1st round and Phila took Marcus Smith. I think you'd take Pryor over Smith. And in the 2nd round they took Jordan Matthews (one of those receivers we passed on) and we took Jace Amaro. I'd take Matthews over Amaro. But I'd take Pryor and Amaro over over Smith and Matthews. And as for all those picks we had a lot of them were comp picks and you can't trade comp pics.  So to me the bottom line is: Idzik does not get an F- like many of you say he should get. I'd give him a C for only two seasons. But to give him a real grade he should have had 3 seasons. 

If you want to give a guy credit for releasing Mark Sanchez, Santonio Holmes, Bart Scott and the 2013 version of Antonio Cromartie, be my guest.  As has been stated a million times on this board, there isn't a football executive on the planet that would not have released those players and their bloated salaries.  No I do not give him credit for that.

Once again, no idiot takes an 8-8 team with $50M and 12 draft picks and says "well, time to start over".  No Idzik apologist ever addresses this.

Harvin was a disaster - if this schmuck's plan was to roll over cap space, why did he obtain a guy for a pro-rated $8M which cut into their 2015 cap space when the season was lost?  Again, no Idzik apologist answers this one.  The fact that you actually give credit for the Harvin TRADE (not a signing we lost a 6th for that slop) is frightening.  It was a total waste of a pick and of the bloated salary space we could have rolled over.

He expressed passing interest in Vontae Davis and DRC, though there were about 7 corners available.  His inaction there was inexcusable especially based on where the market has gone since. 

How on earth can you say the Patterson signing made sense?  You are aware of how that turned out right?  The guy had played for 7 teams before that, and this was your answer at the position?

Quincy has 200 yards to his name while receivers like Landry have 2000 yards.  If you would like to take the position that he will be better than guys like that, let alone guys in the 1st round like Benjamin, Cooks and Beckham, be my guest.  You will lose that one big time.

Why do you always bring up not trading comp picks as an argument in his favor?  It has nothing to do with his awful drafting record.  He knew he couldn't keep all 12 on the roster so trade OUR 4th, or the Revis 4th or OUR 5th and move up once or twice. 

He had 18 picks - 3 of which were 1st rounders, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 3 4ths and he turned that into Richardson and Pryor, that's it.  A Pro Bowler on the verge of being out of the league and a solid starter.  That is an awful awful record.

If he had another season like you would have given him, we may never have recovered.

I will never understand how any human watches the last 3 years and says, "I wish the great Johnny Idzik was still at the controls of this ship, we were better off then."

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33 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You have a pretty negative outlook on Idzik and don't give him any credit for creating that cap space. And wanted him to spend much of it in 2014. Whicn I think he planned as a rebuilding year. He did sign Harvin when he was available (in a cap friendly deal where they were able to cut him if it didn't work out) and tried to get a good cover corner.

He deserves zero credit for creating that cap room, none. Those contracts were set up by Tannenbaum to be dumped when they were, and there wasn't a person on this board at the time who didn't understand every cut they were going to make before they made it. It couldn't've been easier if Tanny left hand-written instructions. 

And the Harvin trade was a last gasp effort to save his job when he saw the team going down the toilet, not to mention a favor to his former employer. Believe they were 1-6 or so when that deal went down. Cost them about $8M of that precious cap room and a draft pick for nothing. 

I give hm credit for getting more than a first rounder for Revis, signing Decker for less than expected, and drafting Sheldon Richardson. Pretty much every other thing he did sucked. 

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He was far, far worse..... This guy screwed Rex Ryan and screwed Jets fans by his unwillingness to attempt to make the team competitive. Remember Dmitri Patterson? He was supposed to be one of the starters for the Jets in a severely under talented secondary. The guy goes AWOL and f*ckin' genius Idzik decides to cut him and not replace him?! What kind of sense does that make? Was he begging to get fired? Anyway, I am perfectly fine with him being ousted. I really wish Rex Ryan never would have been forced to take the fall along with Idzik, and I am not at all impressed with Bowles. I think he sucks, but in regards to strictly GM, I think Mac is the real deal. 

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He did a lot of good things and had a good plan, unfortunately all of that planning is about 3/10ths of being a successful gm, if you can't draft you are a lousy GM.  It will be the same with Mac, he is getting a lot of love right now but unless he has great drafts, not good ones he will also be a lousy gm in the long run,

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The monstrosity of the 2014 NFL Draft is all you need to see.  We should have used our ammo in picks to move up and target specific guys.  Instead we stood pat with 12 picks.  Who can forget the great Jalen Saunders who fumbled punt returns and couldn't make it through preseason.   4 picks in rds 4 & 5 combined, none have contributed anything

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

But, alas, Manish Mehta, in his desperate search for Internet relevance, decided to exonerate the jackasses who ran the organization into the ground over the prior decade and instead pinned it all on the guy who was on the job for 18 months.

You wanna hear something really depressing? It worked. I saw that little queefstain on the ******* Sports Reporters just last week.

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11 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Idzik rid us of Rex. For that alone he deserves a spot in the Ring of Honor.

While true, if not for the stupid moron asshat we have as our owner, Rex would not have been forced upon new GM candidates, and we would not have had Idzik in the first place. There is a reason this franchise has been sucky for 45+ years, horrid ownership.

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1 hour ago, nyjets782 said:

If you want to give a guy credit for releasing Mark Sanchez, Santonio Holmes, Bart Scott and the 2013 version of Antonio Cromartie, be my guest.  As has been stated a million times on this board, there isn't a football executive on the planet that would not have released those players and their bloated salaries.  No I do not give him credit for that.

Once again, no idiot takes an 8-8 team with $50M and 12 draft picks and says "well, time to start over".  No Idzik apologist ever addresses this.

Harvin was a disaster - if this schmuck's plan was to roll over cap space, why did he obtain a guy for a pro-rated $8M which cut into their 2015 cap space when the season was lost?  Again, no Idzik apologist answers this one.  The fact that you actually give credit for the Harvin TRADE (not a signing we lost a 6th for that slop) is frightening.  It was a total waste of a pick and of the bloated salary space we could have rolled over.

He expressed passing interest in Vontae Davis and DRC, though there were about 7 corners available.  His inaction there was inexcusable especially based on where the market has gone since. 

How on earth can you say the Patterson signing made sense?  You are aware of how that turned out right?  The guy had played for 7 teams before that, and this was your answer at the position?

Quincy has 200 yards to his name while receivers like Landry have 2000 yards.  If you would like to take the position that he will be better than guys like that, let alone guys in the 1st round like Benjamin, Cooks and Beckham, be my guest.  You will lose that one big time.

Why do you always bring up not trading comp picks as an argument in his favor?  It has nothing to do with his awful drafting record.  He knew he couldn't keep all 12 on the roster so trade OUR 4th, or the Revis 4th or OUR 5th and move up once or twice. 

He had 18 picks - 3 of which were 1st rounders, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 3 4ths and he turned that into Richardson and Pryor, that's it.  A Pro Bowler on the verge of being out of the league and a solid starter.  That is an awful awful record.

If he had another season like you would have given him, we may never have recovered.

I will never understand how any human watches the last 3 years and says, "I wish the great Johnny Idzik was still at the controls of this ship, we were better off then."

Look, I gave the guy a C. Just getting all that cap space and some of his key draft picks like Sheldon and Pryor and the Revis trade etc. gets him that. And then there was his trade for Ivory. Not too shabby. And trying to rebuild the secondary via the draft is pretty smart. Btw it wasn't just a casual inquiry about Vontae Davis. He made him an offer. But the guy decided to stay with his own team. As for DRC he decided to sign with the Giants even after Idzik reportedly raised his offer. They were in negotiations and he took the Giants deal over the Jets. One reason for that is that his mentor from the Cardinals Antoine Rolle was at that time with the Giants and encouraged him to sign with them. As for Harvin he has the talent to be an impact player something we really didn't have on the roster. And he had some very good games as a Jet. But like most everything that season it didn't work out. 

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42 minutes ago, Revis said:

The monstrosity of the 2014 NFL Draft is all you need to see.  We should have used our ammo in picks to move up and target specific guys.  Instead we stood pat with 12 picks.  Who can forget the great Jalen Saunders who fumbled punt returns and couldn't make it through preseason.   4 picks in rds 4 & 5 combined, none have contributed anything

How often is it that you suppose a late 4th or 5th round pick contributes much to any team in their first two years? those picks are usually developmental projects who need time to develop if they ever do. Idzik was a bad talent evaluator and they should have made a few moves in the draft but realistically most players after round 3 are a crap shoot and more often than not end up not contributing much or at all.

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1 hour ago, nyjets782 said:

If you want to give a guy credit for releasing Mark Sanchez, Santonio Holmes, Bart Scott and the 2013 version of Antonio Cromartie, be my guest.  As has been stated a million times on this board, there isn't a football executive on the planet that would not have released those players and their bloated salaries.  No I do not give him credit for that.

You forgot Revis who had the most bloated of all the contracts. Idzik turned Revis into Richardson.  Then Mac re-signed Revis.  And Cromartie.  So there's that.  

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5 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I always felt he should have gotten a third season and his critics on his drafts jumped the gun and criticized misses that every team has in a draft. And I never saw any evidence that he was trying to sabotage Rex. That was started by Mehta, etc. guys who hated Idzik because he wouldn't work with them and give them copy. It was a big fault of Idzik not working with the press and it helped lead to his downfall. Rumors were he wouldn't return phone calls. And his presser was an embarrassing disaster. He wasn't personality wise ready to be in charge and to survive in the New York market. But I thought most of his moves were ok and the stuff he was killed on like not signing a cover corner for 2014 was pure BS. 

You mean the Jets being paper thin at CB before the 2014 season, Dmitri Patterson goes AWOL on the team and gets cut. But yet Idzik does NOTHING to replace an already GLARING weakness for the defense is NOT sabotaging Rex???? You mean sitting on 50 million dollars is NOT sabotaging Rex???? Do you need someone to draw you a blueprint? That guy was a f*cking incompetent idiot.

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19 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

How often is it that you suppose a late 4th or 5th round pick contributes much to any team in their first two years? those picks are usually developmental projects who need time to develop if they ever do. Idzik was a bad talent evaluator and they should have made a few moves in the draft but realistically most players after round 3 are a crap shoot and more often than not end up not contributing much or at all.

My problem with that draft was there is no way he could have kept all 12 of those players. And he couldn't trade the supplemental picks. But he could have dealt our regular draft picks and maybe gotten a few extras in 2015. But it looked like he took a chance and selected guys with talent who were a reach like Jalen Saunders And taking a chance on a 4th round pick like you say isn't a big deal.. The big surprise was cutting Saunders during the season. I never did get that. There seemed to be an internal problem with Saunders esp after he had that car accident. They soured on him for some reason. Another mistake I pin on Idzik was not signing a healthy vet Qb after Mark was injured. He signed Garrard who was unable to physically play. And left us in a position where he had to start a guy who wasn't really ready. But still the 2013 Jets were 8-8. If he wasn't fired in 2014 he would have had to sign players and spend money. 

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10 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

You mean the Jets being paper thin at CB before the 2014 season, Dmitri Patterson goes AWOL on the team and gets cut. But yet Idzik does NOTHING to replace an already GLARING weakness for the defense is NOT sabotaging Rex???? You mean sitting on 50 million dollars is NOT sabotaging Rex???? Do you need someone to draw you a blueprint? That guy was a f*cking incompetent idiot.

You see all of the Patterson types being signed cheap by organizations esp the Patriots. And Patterson wasn't exactly a bum on the field when he played for Miami the previous year. He had injuries but when he played he was capable and NFL quality. You don't have to spend 8-10 million per season on a corner and some of these guys aren't consistently great players. Another thing on Dbs. Idzik drafted heavily for the secondary. And top picks, too. Not every player works out. Pryor was not very good his rookie season but greatly improved this past year and might end up being a Pro Bowl type of player. As for Dee Milliner he played very well the end of his rookie season. But he's been injured a lot since. I'm not convinced he has no future as a starting CB in the NFL. 

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Not everything he did was terrible but he did too many things wrong. 

He was apparently the best candidate they could find who had a plan to unwind the team's terrible contract position and try to right the ship. He made several obvious cuts. He took a flyer on a supposed first round QB that dropped to the second round. It was not a terrible use of a second round pick, honestly. 

His plan would have worked to bring in a fresh round of draft picks and in 2014 and use huge cap space to stack the team in 2015. We could have had an amazing roster. But that's where Idzik's shortcomings killed him here. His drafts were just awful. For every one good pick he had how many terrible picks? He blew tremendous opportunity in that draft. His FA picks as a whole were not as bad but did not make up for it. He was not a guy to be trusted with any more drafts or FA deals. Once it was clear he could not build a roster and the cap space was made available there was no reason to keep Idzik. 

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To the best of my memory every single player drafted by the Jets in 2014 during that season was on an NFL active roster or PS or on IR. Except Tajh Boyd who was Rex's pick. Now if Idzik was Rex's enemy why did he let Rex make a selection. (and a bad one at that). As we all know Rex loved Boyd because he was starting Qb at Clemson where Rex's son was a 5th string receiver. Idzik also covered for Rex when he went on a trip to Clemson just before the regular season started to see Clemson play. Rex got ripped by the press for it and Idzik backed him up.  There were also players the Jets cut like Jeremiah George who that season were picked up by other teams and were on active rosters. There was no way the Jets could carry 12 players they drafted and mostly guys in the upper rounds. 

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First off, yes Idzik was a horrible GM.

Though I wouldn't doubt if that was the plan heading into things.  As in Idzik was hired with the plan of him only sticking around a couple years.  Make drastic cuts, don't try to win and save money.  Sort of a reboot.  Get paid a ton to play the role of horrible GM.  Prove you will bite the bullet in the biggest media market and then you'll easily find work elsewhere.  So the fans place blame on Idzik instead of Woody.

At least that's the only way I can rationalize the Idzik years.  No one can be that bad without trying to be.

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2 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Competent general managers don't sign Dimitri Patterson to start as cornerback when they have a load of cap space. Idzik sucked royally.

 

Look they do all of the time. Esp NEP. Many teams don't want to pay a corner 8-10 a season and nobody pays 16 mil (39 guaranteed). As for that 2014 draft well it's not really a disaster. When you got Pryor, Amaro (who many Jets fans liked in 2014), Quincy,Dozier, McDougle, Reilly plus other guys in the NFL like George, Dixon, IK and even Shaq Evans. You can't as of yet give Idzik an F for that draft but you can give him an incomplete. And just one more thing. The Jets did not emphasize the Wr position in that draft even though they took 3 Wrs later in the draft. Their top picks were other positions incl. TE a position they are weak at. 

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Look they do all of the time. Esp NEP. Many teams don't want to pay a corner 8-10 a season and nobody pays 16 mil (39 guaranteed). As for that 2014 draft well it's not really a disaster. When you got Pryor, Amaro (who many Jets fans liked in 2014), Quincy,Dozier, McDougle, Reilly plus other guys in the NFL like George, Dixon, IK and even Shaq Evans. You can't as of yet give Idzik an F for that draft but you can give him an incomplete. And just one more thing. The Jets did not emphasize the Wr position in that draft even though they took 3 Wrs later in the draft. Their top picks were other positions incl. TE a position they are weak at. 

I didn't say anything about the 2014 draft or wide receivers? Why are you explaining all this too me?

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

You see all of the Patterson types being signed cheap by organizations esp the Patriots. And Patterson wasn't exactly a bum on the field when he played for Miami the previous year. He had injuries but when he played he was capable and NFL quality. You don't have to spend 8-10 million per season on a corner and some of these guys aren't consistently great players. Another thing on Dbs. Idzik drafted heavily for the secondary. And top picks, too. Not every player works out. Pryor was not very good his rookie season but greatly improved this past year and might end up being a Pro Bowl type of player. As for Dee Milliner he played very well the end of his rookie season. But he's been injured a lot since. I'm not convinced he has no future as a starting CB in the NFL. 

So what's your point?????????????

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes.  He only did 1/3 of the job a GM needs to do (from a personnel perspective; hiring coaches would be the 4th, although that's more of an owner's call these days).  Drafting well, making smart signings to fill needs, and avoiding bad contracts.  He only did the last on that list.  And unlike baseball, 1/3 doesn't get you into the HOF.

Next.

His killer mistake was keeping Rex Ryan as HC. They obviously didn't mesh and Rex said all the right things but you knew they weren't on the same page. For example, why take Calvin Pryor - who I disagree is a rising star - when the team's screaming need was CB and Kyle Fuller - an interception machine - was on the board. Idzik allowed Rex to talk him into the 'Louisville Slugger' who I am convinced was taken BECAUSE his nickname was 'Louisville Slugger' and Rex became enamored. Should have canned Rex in Miami despite an 8-8 mark. He was trending downward at the time and bottomed out.

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2 hours ago, Mainejet said:

You mean the Jets being paper thin at CB before the 2014 season, Dmitri Patterson goes AWOL on the team and gets cut. But yet Idzik does NOTHING to replace an already GLARING weakness for the defense is NOT sabotaging Rex???? You mean sitting on 50 million dollars is NOT sabotaging Rex???? Do you need someone to draw you a blueprint? That guy was a f*cking incompetent idiot.

I totally agree, but I think an even worse mistake was bringing Rex back when it was clear the two were NOT simpatico. By the time Idzik realized that, he was well on the way to sabotaging and martyring Rex. He couldn't escape that fact and was labeled a saboteur by the media and the fans. I can never forgive John Idzik, I am sorry, but he caused me too much grief.

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He couldn't draft. He was cheap and sacrificed a year to gain cap space. That would have been okay if he had wheeled and dealed with some of those 12 picks to move up and hit on some players. People discredit Mac because he came in with all that money and made " no brainier" moves. How many teams don't make necessary no brainier moves and blow opportunities that they have? I haven't seen a single head scratcher so far and I can't say that for our previous GM. The fact that he has common sense puts him above a lot of the organizations picking higher than us. I will say if he doesn't hit on a couple draft picks this year and figure a way to turn MO for profit he's going to be in trouble.

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10 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Going 0-12 is not a "miss", it was a colossal blunder.

Well, it wasn't 0-12, since Pryor is fast becoming one of the best safeties in the league, and Enunwa is a strong contributor for a 6th round pick.  But yes, that draft was awful, and pretty much sealed his fate

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