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was John Idzik really that bad of a GM for the jets ? ? ?


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6 hours ago, slats said:

He deserves zero credit for creating that cap room, none. Those contracts were set up by Tannenbaum to be dumped when they were, and there wasn't a person on this board at the time who didn't understand every cut they were going to make before they made it. It couldn't've been easier if Tanny left hand-written instructions. 

And the Harvin trade was a last gasp effort to save his job when he saw the team going down the toilet, not to mention a favor to his former employer. Believe they were 1-6 or so when that deal went down. Cost them about $8M of that precious cap room and a draft pick for nothing. 

I give hm credit for getting more than a first rounder for Revis, signing Decker for less than expected, and drafting Sheldon Richardson. Pretty much every other thing he did sucked. 

This. I'll add trading for Ivory, drafting Pryor (of the players drafted after him, only Clinton-Dix, Ford, Cooks, & Benjamin were realistic alternatives for us and Pryor is turning into a stud at a position that had been a black hole for too long ... on the other hand, we could have taken Bridgewater if Idzik hadn't been stuck on Geno), and stealing Enunwa at pick 209 (he's already outplayed his draft status, and will continue to do so).

Other than that, he was a disaster

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

You can also add Marcus Williams  to that list of good signings. So where is this 0-fer stuff when every guy drafted in 2014 except for Tajh Boyd is still in the NFL. And Tajh is in the CFL. 

You do understand that having your draft picks "still in the NFL" 2 years out from their draft isn't a strong metric, right?

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1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

This. I'll add trading for Ivory, drafting Pryor (of the players drafted after him, only Clinton-Dix, Ford, Cooks, & Benjamin were realistic alternatives for us and Pryor is turning into a stud at a position that had been a black hole for too long ... on the other hand, we could have taken Bridgewater if Idzik hadn't been stuck on Geno), and stealing Enunwa at pick 209 (he's already outplayed his draft status, and will continue to do so).

Other than that, he was a disaster

I don't think it's possible to know that anybody was especially stuck on Geno or that this was the reason we didn't take Teddy Bridgewater but even those of us who would prefer a team run by grown-ups would concede that this was a fireable offense.

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Geno finished 2013 with improved play and wins in an 8-8 season. And played well enough to convince the team not just Idzik that he could be OK as Jets starter. (he also did the same thing down the stretch in 2014 and went into 2015  under Mac and Bowles as the announced starter).  So why would they want to draft Teddy in 2014 a Qb who dropped until the end of round 1. In other words all the teams in the NFL passed on him. (He isn't great either but better than his draft position).  But as usual with some Jets fans they say we should have taken him after the fact. Typical of their second guessing.

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John Idzik was an auction league GM, playing in a straight draft league flush with cash.  His ideas were wonderful, his execution was horrible.  

1.  He refused to over-pay.  Generally, this is fine and dandy, makes a ton of sense, except the definition of over-pay depends on the market.  He read the market wrong.

2.  He refused to even meet with Revis (can be contested if it was a Woody move, but that guy paid up for Revis later, leaving one to assume it was Idzik) which allowed him to go to the Pats.  

3.  His good signing of Eric Decker, doesn't take into account that Decker had other motives in coming to a big market.  He was in a reality show, and his wife was a country singer needing a big stage.  I think Decker sacrificed a few dollars knowing his show and family could the NY market to cover it.   

4.  He missed on a WR in quite possibly the deepest WR draft ever.  Enunwa is basically a project.  Wasted mid round picks on a skimpy return guy and Evans, neither of whom are here today.  In theory, waiting on a plethora of inventory is a good idea, but only if you know how to scout players well.  Another example might be the guy the Jags picked up (I believe after he refused the Jets) because he picked his franchise QB, and then complimented him with Lee, Robinson, and later Burns.  To develop QBs, you need dynamic weapons, and he missed the boat completely.  

5.  He made a good deal for Ivory, I can't complain about that.  

 

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If he has to be labeled a success or a failure, then he was a failure. He inherited a bad situation and was methodically attempting to fix it. Problem was, because he was saddled with a head coach he didn't want, doing things methodically wasn't a luxury he was afforded. When the ax fell on Rex, the Jets opted for a clean slate all around. He did some good things. Pulled the Jets out of cap hell and under Idzik, the Jets valued draft picks for the first time in far too long. Unfortunately, Idzik showed zero ability at identifying which players to draft. In summary, he got a raw deal, but he also didn't do anything to indicate he was the right person to turn the franchise around.

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You just can't go back to past drafts and say we should have taken player X (after he played well) when a lot of teams passed on him. The no. 1 example of this of course is Brady. The Patriots passed on him that year five times. And in evaluating a draft you have to give it time: for a player to develop and in case there are injuries. If Jace Amaro turns out to be a starting tight end and has a successful career it was a more successful draft. And on Pryor after his rookie season the front runners were saying he was a bust and Idzik was a moron for drarfting him but he played well last year and looks like a good pick and long time starter maybe even Pro Bowl in the future. And other players selected could have NFL careers even if not with the Jets. Then imo you can't say the 2014 Jets draft was an F-. I think it was a C and at best a C+ which isn't a great draft. As for not taking good wide receivers: we got one potential good receiver and Wr was not our priority. Safety and tight end and cornerback were. 

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Another thing about Jalen Saunders. They selected him in the 4th round but mostly as a KOR than as a wide receiver. I think that Idzik had the latitude to select someone at that spot to be a specialty player. And to me it was well worth taking a chance on a 4th rounder (esp when you had all of those picks). We had a definite need for a good KOR and really had not had a good one since Justin Miller was on the team. I think Saunders did return one for the Saints either for a TD or down to the one yard line later that season. He is still on the Bears. 

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21 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Another thing about Jalen Saunders. They selected him in the 4th round but mostly as a KOR than as a wide receiver. I think that Idzik had the latitude to select someone at that spot to be a specialty player. And to me it was well worth taking a chance on a 4th rounder (esp when you had all of those picks). We had a definite need for a good KOR and really had not had a good one since Justin Miller was on the team. I think Saunders did return one for the Saints either for a TD or down to the one yard line later that season. He is still on the Bears. 

You didn't like Brad Smith or Leon Washington?? :blink:

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On April 9, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes.  He only did 1/3 of the job a GM needs to do (from a personnel perspective; hiring coaches would be the 4th, although that's more of an owner's call these days).  Drafting well, making smart signings to fill needs, and avoiding bad contracts.  He only did the last on that list.  And unlike baseball, 1/3 doesn't get you into the HOF.

Next.

I agree. Let's never speak the name John Idzik's name again, let alone contemplate whether he was really that bad. The short answer is no, he was worse

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Another thing about Jalen Saunders. They selected him in the 4th round but mostly as a KOR than as a wide receiver. I think that Idzik had the latitude to select someone at that spot to be a specialty player. And to me it was well worth taking a chance on a 4th rounder (esp when you had all of those picks). We had a definite need for a good KOR and really had not had a good one since Justin Miller was on the team. I think Saunders did return one for the Saints either for a TD or down to the one yard line later that season. He is still on the Bears. 

Holy crap. So with a roster as devoid of talent as the NY Jets in John Idzik's second year, he uses a high forth round pick on a 165lb kick returner they wound up cutting a few games into his rookie season, and you're trying to spin that positively? No man, not well worth it. Taking a kick returner is a luxury pick, and he had no room on that roster for a luxury pick. There's no sane person who could say that Jalen Saunders was the BAP on the board at that point, either. The fact that he got cut so quickly underscores the fact that they obviously failed to do homework on the kid. This was one of the deepest WR drafts of all time, a position where need met BAP for the Jets in the first three rounds, and all we're left with is a 6th round hopeful in Enunwa. 

And using the idea that players taken two or three drafts ago are still in the league as some sort of defense of his horrendous drafts is ridiculous. Or using the CFL in the case of Boyd, lol. Drafted players stick around a few years at the bottom of rosters or on practice squads, that happens with everyone's bad draft picks. Idzik just happens to have quite a large number of them for a guy who only had two drafts. 

Do you think Idzik will ever get another shot as a GM? Do you think he should? 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

Holy crap. So with a roster as devoid of talent as the NY Jets in John Idzik's second year, he uses a high forth round pick on a 165lb kick returner they wound up cutting a few games into his rookie season, and you're trying to spin that positively? No man, not well worth it. Taking a kick returner is a luxury pick, and he had no room on that roster for a luxury pick. There's no sane person who could say that Jalen Saunders was the BAP on the board at that point, either. The fact that he got cut so quickly underscores the fact that they obviously failed to do homework on the kid. This was one of the deepest WR drafts of all time, a position where need met BAP for the Jets in the first three rounds, and all we're left with is a 6th round hopeful in Enunwa. 

And using the idea that players taken two or three drafts ago are still in the league as some sort of defense of his horrendous drafts is ridiculous. Or using the CFL in the case of Boyd, lol. Drafted players stick around a few years at the bottom of rosters or on practice squads, that happens with everyone's bad draft picks. Idzik just happens to have quite a large number of them for a guy who only had two drafts. 

Do you think Idzik will ever get another shot as a GM? Do you think he should? 

I think drafting a return specialist with a 4th round pick is smart. If the guy is good that gives a team a tremendous advantage in terms of field position. Plus an elite return guy sometimes puts points on the board. How many games have you seen esp over the years with the Jets when your offense isn't moving the ball. They had 12 picks and it was worth taking a chance on. I know we've signed a guy or two to compete for this job. I'd have no problem drafting someone. 

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28 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I think drafting a return specialist with a 4th round pick is smart. If the guy is good that gives a team a tremendous advantage in terms of field position. Plus an elite return guy sometimes puts points on the board. How many games have you seen esp over the years with the Jets when your offense isn't moving the ball. They had 12 picks and it was worth taking a chance on. I know we've signed a guy or two to compete for this job. I'd have no problem drafting someone. 

5'9", 165lbs. 

So many other needs, so many better prospects on the board. It was a dumb pick. You want a return guy, you find an adult sized football player who does returning on the side. A WR, RB, CB, etc. All this kid ever could've been was a returner, but most likely he'll be out of the league this summer - his current status on the Bears' 85 man roster notwithstanding. 

Your mentality was his mentality, taking a chance with practically all of those picks after the first couple rounds. It didn't work. That's why he got fired, and will never be a GM ever again. 

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

5'9", 165lbs. 

So many other needs, so many better prospects on the board. It was a dumb pick. You want a return guy, you find an adult sized football player who does returning on the side. A WR, RB, CB, etc. All this kid ever could've been was a returner, but most likely he'll be out of the league this summer - his current status on the Bears' 85 man roster notwithstanding. 

Your mentality was his mentality, taking a chance with practically all of those picks after the first couple rounds. It didn't work. That's why he got fired, and will never be a GM ever again. 

He probably won't be a GM again mostly because he didn't have the social skills esp needed in the NYC market. Rex had those and was extremely popular esp with the media. And Idzik's boss David Caldwell who has lost a lot more games as a GM than Idzik ever did is also personable and even made the Jags War Room available to I think it was ESPN last year. But when you have 12 picks one 4th round pick is not a huge deal. And you can spend it on a specialist. The problem is the guy didn't stick. But to me the concept was smart. A return specialist is an important job even if the player doesn't have another role. And Saunders could have been useful as a spare receiver. He got cut for reasons other than skill set. And last year with the Bears he was suspended for 4 games. So he has off the field issues. He wasn't considered a bad pick by experts when he was selected. 

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31 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He probably won't be a GM again mostly because he didn't have the social skills esp needed in the NYC market. Rex had those and was extremely popular esp with the media. And Idzik's boss David Caldwell who has lost a lot more games as a GM than Idzik ever did is also personable and even made the Jags War Room available to I think it was ESPN last year. But when you have 12 picks one 4th round pick is not a huge deal. And you can spend it on a specialist. The problem is the guy didn't stick. But to me the concept was smart. A return specialist is an important job even if the player doesn't have another role. And Saunders could have been useful as a spare receiver. He got cut for reasons other than skill set. And last year with the Bears he was suspended for 4 games. So he has off the field issues. He wasn't considered a bad pick by experts when he was selected. 

So the Jets drafted a 165lb return man with off field issues with a high fourth round pick, and you'd like to continue to defend that. You go, man, stick to your guns. 

I'd like to see some of these expert reports that didn't think it was a bad pick at the time. I found one pre-draft profile predicting rounds 5-6 for Saunders, every other one I saw had 6-7-UFA. I'm thinking the people who put those together probably thought high in the fourth round was a bad plan. And if Idzik was inclined to overdraft a tiny one trick pony, he really, really should've done his off field research on the kid. The moment the Jets cut him, the fact that it was a terrible pick was confirmed. 

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I didn't mind Idzik's approach to begin....ultimately he had to go because his drafts were brutal....in a WR deep draft we came out with Jalen Saunders Shaq Evans and Quincy Enunwa....we could have had Martavis Bryant, Allen Robinson, Jordan Matthews, Marquise Lee etc etc etc...we have no depth on our team and are forced to remedy that with a bunch of stop gap signings because he(along with Tannenbaum) couldn't deliver in the draft...

 

He didn't deserve to hire his own coach and continue to throw draft picks away every season....the reset came at the right time. 

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4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

You just can't go back to past drafts and say we should have taken player X (after he played well) when a lot of teams passed on him. The no. 1 example of this of course is Brady. The Patriots passed on him that year five times. And in evaluating a draft you have to give it time: for a player to develop and in case there are injuries. If Jace Amaro turns out to be a starting tight end and has a successful career it was a more successful draft. And on Pryor after his rookie season the front runners were saying he was a bust and Idzik was a moron for drarfting him but he played well last year and looks like a good pick and long time starter maybe even Pro Bowl in the future. And other players selected could have NFL careers even if not with the Jets. Then imo you can't say the 2014 Jets draft was an F-. I think it was a C and at best a C+ which isn't a great draft. As for not taking good wide receivers: we got one potential good receiver and Wr was not our priority. Safety and tight end and cornerback were. 

I distinctly remember fans including myself begging for the Jets to draft Alshon Jeffery over Stephen Hill and look how that turned out....

Also how can you say WR wasn't a priority when he tried to trade up for Marquise Lee and then went onto to draft 3 of them?....

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Just now, carlito1171 said:

I distinctly remember fans including myself begging for the Jets to draft Alshon Jeffery over Stephen Hill and look how that turned out....

Also how can you say WR wasn't a priority when he tried to trade up for Marquise Lee and then went onto to draft 3 of them?....

Yeah 3 in the later rounds when he had 12 picks. And the 6th round pick was a starter last season. Under a new regime. If Wr was a priority they would have taken one earlier. Considering where they drafted getting one starting Wr out of that draft isn't bad. Did you expect to get 3 starters out of the 4th and 6th rounds?

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24 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

I distinctly remember fans including myself begging for the Jets to draft Alshon Jeffery over Stephen Hill and look how that turned out....

Also how can you say WR wasn't a priority when he tried to trade up for Marquise Lee and then went onto to draft 3 of them?....

After drafting Pryor Idzik stated he was the best player on the board. As for the 2nd round they did try to trade up for Lee but the Bucs didn't make the deal because they wanted Sefarian-Jenkins. So I guess he was considered by the Jets worth trading up for even though he had injuries in college. So far he hasn't been a factor for the Jags with similar receiving stats as Amaro in 2014 and in 2015 only 15 catches all season because of a hammy etc. So to me it looks like the Jets in the early rounds in 2014 were going for best player on the board. And later they drafted for need and reached for a few guys. 

 

 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 3:11 PM, Rangers9 said:

Look, I gave the guy a C. Just getting all that cap space and some of his key draft picks like Sheldon and Pryor and the Revis trade etc. gets him that. And then there was his trade for Ivory. Not too shabby. And trying to rebuild the secondary via the draft is pretty smart. Btw it wasn't just a casual inquiry about Vontae Davis. He made him an offer. But the guy decided to stay with his own team. As for DRC he decided to sign with the Giants even after Idzik reportedly raised his offer. They were in negotiations and he took the Giants deal over the Jets. One reason for that is that his mentor from the Cardinals Antoine Rolle was at that time with the Giants and encouraged him to sign with them. As for Harvin he has the talent to be an impact player something we really didn't have on the roster. And he had some very good games as a Jet. But like most everything that season it didn't work out. 

If John frigging Idzik gets a C, then no GM in history could ever get below a B.  It's amazing that anyone would argue that he was even average.  He was a complete and total dumpster fire.  Getting the cap space gets him ZERO credit, ZERO.  You know full well those bloated deals for borderline worthless players were a forgone conclusion to be released but somehow you amazingly think he should get credit for that.  You are aware that the Jets offered DRC only a 1 year deal and then it took Clueless John 3 hours to return the phone call, right?  I am not in love with DRC, the point is he needed to address the position instead of playing with himself and he failed miserably with your "great signing" of Patterson.

Harvin again, was a disaster.  The trade after they were 1-6 was a pathetic attempt by a pathetic talent evaluator to hold onto his job.  He was a declining player for years and now he'll be lucky to have a job in the NFL this year.

His precious plan that all Idzik apologists tout was to build through the draft and never spend a dime on a prime free agent (he's super lucky that Decker's wife wanted to be in NY).  However, it's really tough to build that way when you go 2 for 18 in the draft.

The bottom line is that YES he was THAT bad, YES he was a disaster, NO he didn't deserve another year and the organization is light years better off as a result.

 

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6 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Another thing about Jalen Saunders. They selected him in the 4th round but mostly as a KOR than as a wide receiver. I think that Idzik had the latitude to select someone at that spot to be a specialty player. And to me it was well worth taking a chance on a 4th rounder (esp when you had all of those picks). We had a definite need for a good KOR and really had not had a good one since Justin Miller was on the team. I think Saunders did return one for the Saints either for a TD or down to the one yard line later that season. He is still on the Bears. 

You'e right it was a great pick.... seriously... most teams cut their early 4th round selection by week 3.  You sure you aren't really JetsFaninDenver?  You and he are the only ones I have ever seen try this hard to spin the Idzik era as a modest success... you guys must love what Cleveland has done of late.

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25 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

If John frigging Idzik gets a C, then no GM in history could ever get below a B.  It's amazing that anyone would argue that he was even average.  He was a complete and total dumpster fire.  Getting the cap space gets him ZERO credit, ZERO.  You know full well those bloated deals for borderline worthless players were a forgone conclusion to be released but somehow you amazingly think he should get credit for that.  You are aware that the Jets offered DRC only a 1 year deal and then it took Clueless John 3 hours to return the phone call, right?  I am not in love with DRC, the point is he needed to address the position instead of playing with himself and he failed miserably with your "great signing" of Patterson.

Harvin again, was a disaster.  The trade after they were 1-6 was a pathetic attempt by a pathetic talent evaluator to hold onto his job.  He was a declining player for years and now he'll be lucky to have a job in the NFL this year.

His precious plan that all Idzik apologists tout was to build through the draft and never spend a dime on a prime free agent (he's super lucky that Decker's wife wanted to be in NY).  However, it's really tough to build that way when you go 2 for 18 in the draft.

The bottom line is that YES he was THAT bad, YES he was a disaster, NO he didn't deserve another year and the organization is light years better off as a result.

 

Getting a C is not good. So I'm not exactly giving Idzik a resounding endorsement. If he should have been fired after 2 seasons it wasn't because of the moves he made. It was because of that press conference which was embarrassing. I listed what I think were the good things he did and there were a good number of them. And if he were GM in 2015 he would have been without Rex and would have spent a lot of money. But not 40 mil on Revis which is breaking our back this year. He traded the guy and got a lot in return. 

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38 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

You'e right it was a great pick.... seriously... most teams cut their early 4th round selection by week 3.  You sure you aren't really JetsFaninDenver?  You and he are the only ones I have ever seen try this hard to spin the Idzik era as a modest success... you guys must love what Cleveland has done of late.

It's laughable to complain about a 4th round pick (out of 12 picks) when Idzik signed the best Wr free agent in Decker in 2014. And Saunders is basically a return specialist something this team needs. We get terrible field position. Plus in the 6th round he drafted a starting Wr. Name one team that doesn't whiff on players. And the Eagles who drafted Jordan Matthews in round 2 whiffed on their first round pick. And we got a very good DB in Pryor. I'll take that any day. And that includes Amaro who most Jets fans liked before he got injured. I guess that was Idzik's fault, too.

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Idzik sucks. The only thing I was begging for him to do when it became obvious he was hording future money was extending Wilk then, while we had leverage with his rookie deal. Now the market value is insane and we're going to lose him one way or another. Anybody here could have done his job at least as well, all he did was wait out Tanny's awful contacts and blow countless draft picks. You couldn't do a worse than match him if you where drawing names out of a hat

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12 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Idzik sucks. The only thing I was begging for him to do when it became obvious he was hording future money was extending Wilk then, while we had leverage with his rookie deal. Now the market value is insane and we're going to lose him one way or another. Anybody here could have done his job at least as well, all he did was wait out Tanny's awful contacts and blow countless draft picks. You couldn't do a worse than match him if you where drawing names out of a hat

Yeah, I've heard that one before that anyone even us could cut cap space and restructure contracts. If so then why do all teams spend big bucks to hire experts on just one thing: dealing with contracts, the cap and NFL rules and regulations. It's so easy anyone can do it. Look, the majority of Jets fans are Idzik haters. To me the facts don't support it. And some of what I'm hearing is just irrational ranting and raving. 

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14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Yeah, I've heard that one before that anyone even us could cut cap space and restructure contracts. If so then why do all teams spend big bucks to hire experts on just one thing: dealing with contracts, the cap and NFL rules and regulations. It's so easy anyone can do it. Look, the majority of Jets fans are Idzik haters. To me the facts don't support it. And some of what I'm hearing is just irrational ranting and raving. 

We hired those experts to run our personnel department for 10 years. I didn't mind Idzik or his plan till I watched him draft, a twitter fan poll before each pick would have netted better results. Not sure what facts I'm missing. Was it his tremendous success in FA, like Breno?

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51 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

We hired those experts to run our personnel department for 10 years. I didn't mind Idzik or his plan till I watched him draft, a twitter fan poll before each pick would have netted better results. Not sure what facts I'm missing. Was it his tremendous success in FA, like Breno?

Well Decker for one. He picked up a good corner in Marcus Williams. I thought signing Vick was smart but he didn't work out. Sure there were other guys who were pieces like Babin, Douzable, D. Landry, Colon and Pace, Sudfeld, Salas, Owusu, Miles etc. And imo signing Harvin who was a potential impact player was worth taking a chance on. 

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23 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I don't think it's possible to know that anybody was especially stuck on Geno or that this was the reason we didn't take Teddy Bridgewater but even those of us who would prefer a team run by grown-ups would concede that this was a fireable offense.

To know? Not with certainty.  But given that Geno was Idzik's pick, and we didn't have anyone to compete with him for the starting job (no, the reanimated corpse of David Garrard doesn't count), it seems pretty clear that the FO was expecting 2d year growth from Geno and still looking at him as the QB of the future.

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